Scrog Waterfarm Grow

well Kelvin is temperature absolute zero scale, just Celsius + 273.15
Lux is a measure of luminous flux aka intensity which diminishes proportionally to the inverse cube of the distance from the source.
Lumens is a number used for man-made light sources to measure their outputs in relation to other man-made light sources.
Foot candles is the universal and more scientifically acceptable light intensity measurement.
Microsiemens is just a conversion of electrical conductivity. EC*1,000 gives you the microsiemen count of nutrients. Or 0.5 conversion ppm*2.

I think you missed my point, however anyone can wiki or google those terms. I was just noting that they are generally not for recreational pot growers to understand in proper detail. I consider myself an intelligent person, and i'm more than willing to admit that I don't understand these terms to their proper degree: but that doesn't come from lack of research. Photobiologists who study for 10 or more years in established scientific communities, the ones who develop horticultural bulbs FROM SCRATCH are the ones who really understand.

Try explaining luminous flux or candela to someone new to growing. They're gonna buy the bulb that they're exposed to the most, and that is "the best" in their opinion. It's just how people tend to work. Note a few exceptions.

Those one line explanations, while somewhat informative, just extend what I was saying about mental security. A little bit of "thats what this is and this is what that is" and everyone goes home feeling happy and informed. There is a plethora of information to understand other than what you provided there, but I think your reply was a great example of what I was saying... how people feel secure with a little bit of information.

Sure we know the words, but we often fail to understand their meaning.

Now I didn't want to get off on a tangent there, the purpose of my post was to comment on therootofwis' comment about green light. Conversations regarding lighting in these online grow forums can quickly become akin to the antics of sleepy kinder-gardeners (however I find much less of that here at 420mag). So I generally try not to argue what I'm not properly educated in.

All I simply wanted to say is "we're not educated enough- we DON'T know what's going on for certain" It's not our job :) Indoor growing is relatively new, and we're just getting out of the stage of basically using street-lamps to illuminate our grows. The growing community over the last 10 years has become increasingly commercial, and I think it's important that buyers do their absolute best to educate themselves on the facts, while trying to stay away from advertising garbage... Forums like this are a great place for stuff like that. Products build rep or lose it very quickly when they roll against this kind of crop lol. The market is learning that, and they're doing what they can to tip the scales in their favor.

I think alot of us would be surprised just where our 200$ bulbs, 500$ digital ballasts, and 300$ nutrient regimes come from. Look at this grow, and how hes using basic salts, and what is essentially the same formula from a hydro company. Hes paying far less for this by mixing his own recipe: by understanding the facts of nutrients, as opposed to just following a manufacturer, the people we've learned to trust. Lumatek digial ballasts are apparently nothing more than a modified stereo amplifier: or at least they apparently come off the same production line... which is why they're completely resin sealed: they want to keep the very basic innards a secret, and make you pay out the arse for as long as they can. Why do you think they've got no problem replacing your 500$ ballast an unlimited amount of times in 3 years? They're still making money. And at the end of the day, whats the difference between a bulb produced in china and a bulb produced in china?

While we all love our new products: the latest and greatest - companies know this. Hell, car companies work with kids to get what THEY want and what THEY think is cool in a minivan. Then when the parents go to buy a van, they tend to trust their kids instinct: kids are supposed to be untainted by advertising! So they pick the van that is appealing to them, which, coniceidently, has all the features that they've studied that kids want, and would find practical. Trust out kids - It's what our generations has been lead to understand... I've even seen it more recently in tv commercials, outright saying "trust your kids... they know what's best" when the fact is the advertisers simply know what the kids want, and provide it.

/end rant! :bongrip:

I am curious about your PM situation! I've considered organics at first to try to control it... Did you end up using the potassium or sodium, if at all? Any shots of the PM?
 
ask rhetorical questions get rhetorical answers. you should find your sense of humor.

since you wanted me to respond a little further, ultrasonic, I believe the reason they use those measurement scales is actually so the buyer can make informed decisions and not the other way around.
 
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Sorry I think it comes from a text book. Here is a link to their online text book.

Plant Physiology Online

Hope thats okay as it is an information source and not a company. I think this is just showing that plants do absorb light at these frequencies, just they might not use them efficiently. I don't know what wavelength causes the degradation of the pigment that triggers flowering. I would assume it would be pretty specific. I agree with you sonic that we don't have a real grasp on the effects of light on plants. I think Propa Gators comment "CMH retrofit by Phillips produce a superior spectrum, more like the sun" very telling of our knowledge. Right now I think we just go for what is natural. I don't feel however that that is optimal. Optimal also has to be defined. Optimal for commercial growers is going to be different than medicinal growers. I am sure as researchers find out more about what effects light has on plants secondary metabolites they will tailor lights to various applications for plant growth. This is going to be done on a case by case basis. I have talked to a Prof at the local University that studies medicinal plants and they have looked into trying all different light levels and found that it definitely effects secondary metabolite production, a long with a host of other factors. No science on why or how it works that I am aware of. In the future with more people working on it I am sure that they will figure out all the environmental variables to maximize the compounds in cannabis that are efficacious for patients with different medical conditions. Right now I think we are at its infancy and can only look at very basic research and make our best guess. I feel like we are like healers of the past all sharing knowledge and trying to prove things through trying to compile a lot of antidote evidence and pick out the truth. It is exciting times and I can't wait to see what growing is going to be like in 20 years from now.

P.S. I watch a documentary about advertising to kids and it is scary! I was have taken a few psych courses and remember a prof. saying that if you want to make a lot of money get into advertising to children and if your good you will make a mint. Very sad when we like to profit of susceptibility of children.
 
This tailored spectrum is where I think LEDs could really be useful. They still don't put out enough lumens/watt but if the hype is true in another 5-10 years they could be really competitive. Has anyone ever tried combination of different bulbs? A few people I have talked to swear by a combo of just regular old MH and HPS. I think one disadvantage of HIDs is that they are point sources. I wanted to try the MH and HPS but figured that some would get tons of blue and other would get tons of red and only a small bands of plants would get the idea balance.

I don't understand this mixing of flouro and LED. To me that is more due to people unhappy with LEDs output and just trying to get more lumens and not wanting to spend the money to get another LED array.
 
Okay so day 35. Wow it seems like this is a lot farther than it is. Okay for those waiting impatiently for the new pics here they are! :yahoo: I didn't have time to get them with the lights off so we have the wonderful sodium glow for this week.

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Here are pics under the china hat:

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And under another hood:

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Random bud shots just to give some indication of size:

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Well just felt like taking a pic of all the nuts I have inherited from friends and store owners.

Again I think anyone of these products could equally be replaced be another. Is senzyme as good as grozyme or zenzyme again I am sure everyone following knows my answer.

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Here's a some pics of a few spots of PM that I found. This stuff is buried in the undergrowth were moisture is getting trapped. Sorry for the bad pics best my camera can do. It is just a white spot on the leaf.

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Reservoir Numbers:

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Okay so I got a little carried away with the camera. Just really happy how they are turning out. Went back and looked at all the pics of the girls and can't believe all that has happened in such a short time. Crazy!

Okay that is all for now.

:peace:
 
Thanks dahcwon. Yup a little over half way. The pistils are starting to change. A few days ago there was not a single brown pistil. In todays visit they are a few that are starting to brown. Cindy99 is suppose to finish quick. I think that 8 weeks is going to be about right. If there is still a lot of white pistils at the end of this week I might do another. Have to see.

Okay for the science minded folks if you really want to understand the chemical control of flowering here is a great link it at the website above:

Plant Physiology Online: FT Protein, not mRNA, is the Phloem-Mobile Signal for Flowering

Have to love how much free knowledge is on the net! I can only imagine what the great minds of the past would have thought to see all this information at everyones fingertips!
 
do you use monopotassium phosphate 0-52-34 for flower boost later in flowering? I am considering buying the salt for the high phosphate which is the same approach used by phosphoload or shooting powder; when used in late flowering supposedly increase yield big time. there are two kinds available for me: monopotassium phosphate in salt or pure phosphate fertilizer in liquid. which should I use? also do you have any idea how much monopotassium phosphate I would add to achieve the boost later in flowering?
 
Okay so you are using floranova nutrients. I personally think that flora nova bloom has tons of phosphors. I don't think is has enough N or K. If you want more P I would use the monopotassium phosphate to bump up the K. Or just use more floranova bloom. Its ratio is approximately 1-2-1.75. I like a ratio more like 1.5-1-3 where K is about double N.

My mix when I use monopotassium phostate works out to 150ppm N - 103ppm P - 234ppm K. I start this right when I flip the lights to 12/12. My veg mix is almost the same just minus the monopotassium phosphate. Search "The Great Phosphorus Myth Exposed". This article Big Mike give Advanced Nutrients tissue sample for a bunch of strains. You can see that P never accumulates in plants so I don't see why we keep thinking that giving a massive amount is somehow going to boost our yields. Plants just do not use that much. My ppm is very close to the Lucus formula. It is amazing how similar plants are in their nutritional needs, if you look at almost any greenhouse plant it is very similar ratios. For my pH down I use phosphoric acid and know that also increases my P ppm.

Hopefully this helps. Oh and the one reason I like more K is the higher the K : N ration the slower and harder the growth. People who complain of to much stretch in their growth should check their K : N ratio. If it really low either use less N or more K. Hope this helps.

:peace:
 
Wow okay so I caught a mistake I made. Going over my formula for the Purple Kush grow I realized I have been putting in 10 times more mono-potassium phosphate in my solution than I should have. So I have been running a profile of 150N-337P-480K so I have been running a ratio of 1:winkyface:3ish. Whoops, oh well girls haven't seemed to mind, but I guess I have been phosphors boost big time! Now the question is has it helped yields or have I just been throughing away my money? I think that I have been wasting my money but we will see. Just getting the purple kush reservoirs ready and found that mistake. For my new formula see my purple kush grow.

This has led me to another rant. I really wonder how much products are sold touting to be a booster but are sold that really don't do anything. I was talking to a sales rep and he even admitted that 10% of yield increase can be had by using the best nutrient programs. That is only after everything is dialed in and the grower is extremely skilled. So next time you say a products really increased your yields are you sure it was the product or you just getting to be a better grower? Coming from the horticulture industry we use nothing to improve yields. We just use CO2 and top quality salt fertilizers. That is it because nothing else has been shown to be cost effective to use. Now cannabis is a different product due to its price. I have talked to researchers and they have test products that do increase yield, just not enough to be regain the cost of the product with commercial horticulture crops. Cannabis being worth far more than most horticultural crops might be able to recoup the cost of using the product with very small yield increases. But for the average medical grower do we really grow enough to make that bloom booster worth it? We shall see as I hope this purple kush grow is a start to a lot more comparisons.
 
I got a hand magnifying glass yesterday looked at the trichomes and a few are cloudy but most are clear. Cool to see on my girls as I have really only seen photos. Was in the garden today and got some good pics of a few flower and thought I would share.

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Hopefully that will keep everyone happy till Sat. Oh and a question to everyone Chitan/Chitosan products does anyone use/tried them such as GH Chi or AN scorpion juice. Love peoples feed back. This is one looks really promising and seems to been talked about a bit but never taken off and I wonder if that is just because A) it doesn't really work that well, or B) just because it is a "pesticide" and companies don't want to register it and stuff.
 
Quick update no picks today..... One of the buckets flooded.... The plant it was in hasn't been doing to well lately and since I have been having problems with my drippers I thought the dripper had stopped working and the plant dried out. I checked a few days ago and no sign of the bucket not draining well today slim mold was there.. So I think I will take it down just to make sure it doesn't spread disease.... Kind of a bummer but live and learn. I the problem is obviously since I am using a pump to pump the water and not an air pump I am putting a lot more water through the system than it was designed for. Every bucket is now going to get larger holes drilled in the bottoms so I don't have this problem again in the future. On the plus side I am very glad to see the massive root production this system can generate. With a few more grows under my belt I can't wait to see what this system will be able to do....

:peace:
 
damn mang!!!!
D
A
M
N

love it!
 
Thanks Charon187 and Sky Rocket.

Here is some more pics to update everyone and give some visual of what has been going on.

First pics of the girl that came down:

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Can see this system still develops a nice root mass outside of the little bucket. You can see how all the roots are brown and dead. When I ripped it off I could tell it was starting to rot.

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This was the solid layer of roots at the bottom of the little bucket. The picture doesn't show it but the roots had grown into and totally plugged all the little drain holes. I will be drilling the hole to make them a lot bigger for the next round.

Okay now for some pictures of what this plant produced:

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So right now it stands at 3.7 ounces and a bit more drying to go. I think it is going to be almost dead on 3.5. Really happy with how it turned out and really excited to think what is possible when I don't have root rot issues!

And finally a few pics of the girls that are left:

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Okay so I will start taking these down sooner than I thought. Probably start this weekend. No very few white hairs left and the trichomes are cloudy. Again I have just Pureblend in the res right now. A few girls are starting to eat up there reserves, almost all there leaves starting to yellow. Okay next pics will probably be of the girls coming down.

Till then :peace:
 
O.0 wow
 
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