GH vs 5-11-27 Purple Kush Comparison Grow

Okay this might be a little early but I am getting excited about this! :slide:

First off this is not going to be as nice as Setting Suns! Can't compete with the two tents! Perfect for a comparison grow! But I will be using what I have. Which is:

One room

Two 4x8 tables
Two reservoirs
Four 1000w HPS
Salt Fertilizer
GH products
PureBlend Pro

Here is how I am hoping it will go down. I have 16 PK vegging that I am going to randomly assign to one of the two tables. Therefore each table will get 8 plants. Plants are grown in a modified waterfarm like my Cindy99 grow. Hydroton and diatomite medium with constant drip.

Table and Reservoir A will get GH products following the GH Keep It Simple Recirulating Program. That includes FloraNova Grow FloraNova Bloom Floralicious Plus and Liquid KoolBloom. Have everything but the Floralicious Plus.

Table and Reservoir B will get approximately 80% my salt mix and 20% Pureblend Pro. Why this mix you ask because salt give the best yeilds but lack in the taste and smell department. I have read some post that say 20% organics really helps bring out taste and smell. I choose Pureblend because it has everything I would look for in an organic fertilizer except no worm castings. Worm castings are great stuff! I think that so much I have a verimcompost bin! Pureblend is a source of silica, has 7% humic acid from leonardite. That is the same thing in the same strength as AN gradma Enggy's H-2. Kelp great stuff! In my opinion Pureblend Pro Hydroponic 2.5-2-5 has all your rare earth minerals, amino acids, vitamins, etc. that a lot of products claim will boost yields and give the best results you ever had.

Now then my prediction for the outcome. I will have two identical tables of nice medicine for my patients. Yes this is a licensed medical grow! Honestly I really don't expect any difference except for the amount of money it cost.

Now the PK are vegging nicely and I am doing some LST. I will start the experiment when the first night I go to 12/12 which will be the first time the girls will be on different reseviours. You will see from the pics that they are vegging in two layers. The bottom layer is looking a lot nicer than the top. To over come this variable I randomly assign the PK vegging on the top layer to the tables then assign the bottom layers to tables. I will use a random number generator to assign the plants. This is not a strict experiment. I will be doing scrog and if I see one side needs a little Mg or Ca or something like that I will add it and note it. I really want this to be like what the average grower would do. I think if most people see a little Mg def they would add Epsom salt etc. Okay I have ramble enough here are some pics of the girls vegging!

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The one bucket to the left is just an overflow bucket. Since there is water in base of the waterfarms sometime it will syphon all out and more water will return to the reservoir than it can handle

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Okay has been awhile since I posted this. The comparison is going to go ahead. I am having problems getting Floralicious Plus. Looken like it isn't going to arrive until mid to late this week. Flipping to flower tomorrow as the girls are getting huge. Will do a through update tomorrow laying out what exactly how this comparison is going to go. I don't think it is going to be as random as I would like as I was hoping to have flip them mid-last week. Now some are huge! and I am going to have to space this grow out better as the random placement is not going to work. Slim mold has already raised its head. This was due to one of the buckets not draining properly. Came in this morning to do my daily check and the little bucket was full of water, but not the big bucket. This concerns me as I am sure the roots have been submerged in water for a long time while the little bucket was slowly filling with water. Drilled a lot of new holes in the little bucket and hoping once the oxygen returns the slim mold will leave. The reservoir right now has SM-90 and Grozyme in it so goes to show you even with preventative products once you give a pathogen an ideal breeding ground it is going to spread. I check a lot of other buckets and again no sign of slim. The other thing I am battling is spider mites and thrips. Both not bad and I think with proper preventative spraying we should have them under control in no time. Okay either tomorrow or Tuesday will update this thread with how everything stand, what I am doing, pics of the girls going into flower and all that fun stuff. Till then,

:peace:
 
Okay so I am going to compare GH Keep It Simple Recirulating Program to just my salt blend. The only thing else I will add to both the reserviors is SM-90 and Grozyme to prevent slim mold. Will add Floralicious Plus once I get it. I am really interested to see if A) there is a noticeable difference in yield and B) which I think is more important a noticeable difference in quality. It has been proven over and over again that organics has better flavour and taste than conventional now I am wondering if you can increase the flavour and aroma with a bit of organics. I am very interested to see what floralicious plus will do and of course I can't get it! Oh well soon enough. Okay did the reservoir change today. 80L of RO water went in and 10L tap water. I have hard water so I don't consider it when I calculate my nutrient requirements. When I get it down to pH 5 it is up to 700ppm. Therefore I have 90L in the reservoirs but calculated it to 80L. For simplicity sake I just say 4L = US gallon.

Here is what I added:

GH
100ml grow and bloom and 50ml koolbloom
1060ppm pH 5

Salts
7-11-27: 28g
CaN: 28g
monopot: 2g
Epsom: 12g
Pot: 6g

720ppm pH 5

Okay 7-11-27 is a premix formula with all the micros that is meant to be mix with Calcium Nitrate for a complete tomato fertilizer. CaN = Calcium Nitrate; monopot = mono-potassium phosphate; Epsom = Epsom salt and Pot = Potassium Chloride. Here is the formula for full strength per 100L

07 – 11 – 27: 70g
CaN: 65g
monopot: 5g
Mg9.8%: 30g
PotChl: 15g

This give me a ppm profile of:

N- P- K- Ca - Mg
150- 103- 327- 124- 50.4

Sorry no pics today hope to get them up tomorrow.

:peace:
 
Okay update and day two of flower: To the res added 20L RO to the Nova Res and 20L plus 7g 5-11-31 and 7g NCa to the Salt Res. The pH for both is standing at 5.3 and Nova Res is 920ppm and the Salt Res is 870ppm. Here are the pictures I promised of the room starting with pics from awhile ago. This is I think when I was hoping to flip them

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Now todays pics starting with the Nova side:

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And the Salt side:

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Yes that is my fire extinguisher by the door. Always remember safety! Another reason I think I will switch to air cooled hoods is I just like the added safety of having a sheet of glass between the bulb and the rest of the room. This is one area I hope to constantly improve. Personally I think safety, better yields and quality all go hand in hand. A nice clean room with everything up off the ground is just more pleasant to work in. Floralicious Plus plus should be in Friday. Well till next time.

:peace:
 
Okay update and day two of flower: To the res added 20L RO to the Nova Res and 20L plus 7g 5-11-31 and 7g NCa to the Salt Res. The pH for both is standing at 5.3 and Nova Res is 920ppm and the Salt Res is 870ppm. Here are the pictures I promised of the room starting with pics from awhile ago. This is I think when I was hoping to flip them

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Now todays pics starting with the Nova side:

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And the Salt side:

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First off. Both sets of ladies look great. I'm gonna have to say that the nova plants look fuller and healthier overall tho. Guess we wont know til harvest for sure.
But the ladies look great:bravo::cheer:

+rep bro

dro:reading420magazine:
 
Hey DroJo thanks for the reps! Ya I don't want to make any predictions this early in. Also I feel this will be one of a few test to see which is better. I am still dialing in the system and have had some issues like one of the girls buckets flooded drowning the roots. I can tell this has set her back as the a lot of lower leaves are starting to turn yellow. This is nothing to do with the nuts just I was feeding more water to the little bucket in the waterfarms than they could drain. I experienced this just recently in my cindy99 grow which caused me to take down a plant early. I am fixing this by drilling larger holes in all the buckets and adding 2gph drip regulators to the drip lines, so it shouldn't be a problem again, but will be a factor on results for this grow. Also I am now convinced that I have a few sensi star or something other than purple kush in this grow. I will take pictures to show the difference. The source of my cuttings only had a few varieties left so I am thinking they didn't have enough purple kush and through in one of the other ones. I know for the next batch I have is all purple kush. I think that one will be a more true comparison. But I think for that I am going to add more amendments like seaweed, fulvic acid, and chitosan to my salt mix. I really just want this as a base comparison of what pure salts can produce, really see how the aroma and quality differ etc. On the GH side I do not have Floralicious Plus yet which will effect their results. Since this is their seaweed tonic I think the lack of Cytokinins and organics effect outcome. This should be remedied tomorrow. I think the results from this we can all learn from but I don't think it will be enough to draw any hard conclusions. It is going to be fun none the less and with the size of the girls already I am optimistic for some nice results! This is a great experience for me as I think once I get it dialed in it is going to be a great system for comparison grows of may different products! I am really excited to be able to produce some hard evidence for the effectiveness of different products so they can make more educated purchases. Which will result in better medicine. I also want to do some different gardening techniques to the test so we can see the results of different popular training habits. Maybe I should start a poll and see what is the most popular comparison people would like to see? Well I think I am getting ahead of myself but am excited with the potential of this side by side system.

:peace:
 
K quick update.

GH
35ml grow and bloom and 17.5ml koolbloom
880ppm pH 5.6

Salts
7-11-27: 21g
CaN: 21g
monopot: 1.5g
Epsom: 9g
Pot: 4.5g

820ppm pH 5.6

Okay long day today. Drilled holes in all the buckets, it smelt, and a decent amount of water drained out of a few! Slime mold is moving in in a few buckets. Hopefully drilling the holes will help. Got air-stones in each bucket too so hopefully that any roots making it to the water in the big bucket will grow healthy. In each res I added SM-90, H202, and grozyme. I just hope I got it in time and the roots aren't to far gone. We will see in the next few days. I hope to have tons of picks up soon showing all that is going on. Should have floralicious plus tomorrow. It will be interesting to see which one deals with this stress better. Again no sign of stress yet except on one and hoping it will stay that way.

Anyone else had this problem with waterfarms?

Also any comments on continuous drip hydroton? With the effectiveness of this system to me it looks like it should be a great system and more people would be using it. Everyone seems to love the ebb and grow I am just wondering why the ebb and grow is more popular. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated as I am thinking of just filling the large buckets with hydroton next grow and just doing drip.

:peace:
 
The Butcher: I would love to see more comparison grows! I can already think of 101 comparisons I would love to do. I honestly believe that if there was more comparison grows and people saw the results there would be a lot less products on the market. Again 10% of yield can be contributed to nutrients and 10% to genetics, the other 80% is the grower. I want people to think next time they try product x and have a great harvest, was it the product or are you just getting better at growing? I bet most of the time it is because you are getting better at growing!

Okay now that I am down with my little rant lets get back to the comparison so we can find the products that truly make for better quality medicine! Again I don't care to much about yield increase what I really want is better medicine for my patients.

Okay added yesterday

GH
30ml grow and bloom and 20ml koolbloom(added 10ml to one bucket instead of 5 I was suppose to)

Salts
7-11-27: 21g
CaN: 21g
monopot: 1.5g
Epsom: 9g
Pot: 4.5g

Now some pictures

GH side first:

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Salt side:

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Now some visuals of the extent of damage of the buckets flooding:

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This is the worst one it is on the GH side.

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Not the best picture but this is the one on the Salt side. It happend about a week earlier so had time to recover. Hoping the other one picks up soon. A few I definitely got a little stressed but all except for the one look like they have recovered and are intent on making some big buds.

Okay here are pics of the difference between the two plants:

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So you can see the PK leaf is a lot bigger and darker green, its stem is also a lot thicker, solid, and compact. It is also looks a little behind in bud sight formation and is going to produce less bud sites. I will try and get better pictures of the bud sites tomorrow.

Okay update complete for today.

:peace:
 
damn bro can i just say how much i love how clean your set up is.... AGAIN......

awesome!!!!!!


waiting..........
watching.........
learning............
 
Thanks Charon187. Not that clean right now the room needs work. The lower fan leaves are starting to die off and I haven't had time to clean it.

Vapo-eyes I would love to keep doing this in my retirement. Don't know how long the program up here is going to last. I think in 30 years when I retire things are going to be a lot different. Enjoying myself in the mean time and going to have lots of pics to remember this time by.

okay wow I have been a bit busy. Have only been topping up with water since last post and the ppm was done to 300! More than time for a res change so I did it finally today.

GH

150ml bloom and 75ml koolbloom
Floralicious Plus 15ml
to 85L

1380ppm pH 5.5

Salts
7-11-27: 21g
CaN: 21g
monopot: 1.5g
Epsom: 9g
Pot: 4.5g
ppm 600
To 75L

Also added SM-90, Grozyme, and H202 to both resevoirs. Nice new roots are starting to appear so looks like the drilling the holes in the bottom really helped. Fingers crossed it will do the trick till harvest. Both sides looking great. Have bit of a mite problem. Going after it with soap, sm-90 and neem. Hopefully I can get it under control soon so the last 4 weeks of flower I don't have to spray. Okay I know I haven't posted pics in awhile will do soon these girls are getting hugh! Switching to bat wings to give myself more head room as they are stretching to the celling! Looking like I am going to have to do some tying to keep these girls under control!

:peace:
 
Wow. OK- will be following with a passion. If you have time- please relay wattage of HPS light set up. Also- (1) Are you enriching with CO2? (2) Do you have data on environment- temps and RH?.
 
Hey astroastro welcome. I hope to do a lot of comparisons so that we can finally test a lot of beliefs we have. So glad to have you on board any suggestions, questions, and info are always welcome and appreciated.

Now to the questions 1000w HPS x 4. CO2 = no, RH right now is about 50 and temps are maxing out at 30 which I don't like and am trying to lower. Wow the days are getting warmer and I have already noticed a huge increase in temperatures. Debating if I want to try and fight summer heat or just leave it once this harvest is over.

Okay what I added today. The girls are hungry! I am worried that a little bit of yellowing might be due to not adding any nutes for a long time before the res change. Girls seem really really hungry!

GH

30ml bloom

1000ppm pH 5.1 was at 6.7 before lowering

Salts
7-11-27: 21
CaN: 21g
monopot: 1.0
Epsom: 6g
Pot: 3g
ppm 1000
 
THEROOTSOFWIS- thanks for the come back- appreciated. Yea- 30 a bit high- not killer but perhaps at the upper range of optimum. The bugs, molds, and the other biologicals really like the elevated temps as well- problems and problems- been there.

Just to make sure I have the correct picture in my old gray head of what we have going on here- in a nutshell- you have two (basically) identical 4X8's going side-by-side with a power budget of 4000W, or about 1000W of HPS/ 16 sq.ft.- two 1000 watters for each 4X8. My question would be- What area would you estimate your total canopy to occupy- i.e., how much (far) do the photosynthizing portions of the plants extend beyond the 4x8 bounds of the tables? Would you guesstimate this to be 5X10 or something like that???

Also, as a comment- your light density is (seems to be) very high- GOOD! I really like your set up.
 
Hey astroastro,

Ya with the temps higher had a wave of spider mite take off. Under control now but I am going to be a lot more diligent and monitoring for pest with the higher temps. Once this "heat wave" is over temps should come back under control for the rest of the grow.

Woops, i'm actually running two 4x6 tables for this grow with a canopy area of about 9x5. The next round of purple kush will be in the other room which has the two 4 x 8 tables. I have left room as I am still working on the room and if I decide to try and fight summer I left room to start making modifications. Yup, each table is getting two 1000w HPS. Glad you like the setup. Im quit happy with it. It is still under construction and a lot of little things to improve, ideas to try. I think my next comparison is going to be trying different training techniques and see what the difference is.

:peace:
 
Think my root problem is brown algae. Reading a thread on it sorry different site so no link. But it is explaining the problem to the T. I am thinking that this might have been the problem the previous owners of the system were having and why I got it for so cheap. I'm going to look more into this. Keep everyone posted. If this is the case I might have to abandon floralicious plus till I sterilize my system. Anyone following had issues with brown algae let me know how you dealt with it. From the posts Im reading it seems to be a real problem.
 
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