SmokeyBloke's First Deep Water Culture - Unknown Strain

[SmokeyBloke]

Hi all, SmokeyBloke here.
New Member, long time reader.

So as the title says, this is my first attempt at a DWC.
This is a 2 plant, Unknown strain setup.
I am making this journal to keep track of progress, so I can learn from my mistakes and improve my grow skill.
Also to hopefully get some much needed and greatly appreciated advice along the way.

Before I start id like to say that this grow is on a budget (mostly donated equipment), as it is a test run so to speak.
I am currently lacking test equipment (I have an aquarium PH test kit only) but this should be remedied soon.
Also I am already 3 weeks into veg, and will be using my paper journal and photos taken from week 2 to get everyone up to speed of progress so far.

Okay so the Equipment

Container is a 65L storage container I got for $9
A donated water pump (unknown LPH) with 4 outlets, 2 outlets per plant.
Air pump I had laying around as an extra for my aquariums. With a fine air stone for increased water oxygenation.
Nutes I got from the local hydro store.
For lighting I have a 400W HPS light that was donated by a friend.
Bench top fan for air circulation.
Foil as a reflective surface.

The Grow Room

The room used to be a flat top patio that was enclosed with tin sheeting, 2 decent size windows and rear door added. The room holds warmth well and can be cooled with fresh air through the windows if needed (note that fresh air can enter the room without open windows, windows only really used for cooling purposes).

The Grow is set up at one end of the room, close to a window (with blackout curtain).
Foil surrounding the plant on all sides for increased light, the exception being the front access, the foil sits a little higher than the container as to let the fan blow against the plants and to get air circulation.
Also I will most likely be giving them more room in the future, the compact space is really just to start them.
Either that or cut back to only one inside, I'm not sure yet, although I do know there isn't space for one mature plant in there, let alone 2.

If I have left out any information, as I have the feeling I did, please let me know or ask for it

The Seeds

The seeds were from a bag of particularly nice smoke that I had a few months ago.
The strain is unfortunately unknown. I have found it very rare in my area for anybody to actually know what it is that they have, hence the unknown strain.

Anyway the seeds were germinated in rockwool, the rockwool places in a glass oven dish with lid and sat in indirect sunlight. They took 5 days to break the surface, and another 3 days before being transferred to the DWC container. Sorry I have no pics of progress until week 2. But at this stage they were an inch or so tall.

Note, I personally consider day 1 of Veg to be the first day in the DWC container.

First week of Veg. (Days 1-7)

I used half strength nutes and a 16/8 on/off light cycle from day 1.
Growth I feel was rapid, they grew their first True leaves within the first 2 days, then 3 nodes within the next 5 days (days 3-7). The nodes were close together and other than the thin weak stem they looked healthy.

Week 2 of Veg. (Days 8-14)

In this week the plants almost doubled in Height and Width, 3 more nodes were grown, and the shade leaves grew vey large. The stem had strengthened a lot.
Both plants showed equal growth.

I believe the could have had more growth, as I found signs of leaf miners on the bottom 4 sets of shade leaves, on both plants. I didn't notice this until day 12 when there were 2-3 leaf miner trails per lower shade leaf.
To combat this I started using a Pyrethrin spray every other day just before lights out. This along with the trim has helped ALOT.

On day 14 (after much research in this forum) I decided to top and trim both plants. I topped them just above the 4th nodes, and trimmed all shade leaves.
Before and after shots below.

Before

After

Also sorry about the pics, learned to take pics with the camera flash rather than when the HPS is on.
Lesson learnt.

An hour or so after the top and trim they looked healthy again (To me and another grower I know anyway)
Still tight growth to my eye.

Veg week 3 (Days 15-21)

Day 18 (4 Days after top and trim) they are starting to put energy into the 2 new tops.
The main stems have strengthened and look quite a bit thicker, 2nd and 3rd set of branches are catching up to the top of the plant. Although the first set of branches haven't grown too much, maybe a little horizontal growth but not much, they are starting to get shaded by the 2nd and 3rd branches above. Maybe this could be why they haven't grown much? Maybe I should chop them? Maybe I should wait and see? Maybe I'm looking too much into it?

Again, sorry about the pics, learned to take pics with the camera flash rather than when the HPS is on.
Lesson learnt.

Pyrethrin spray has helped with the leaf miner problem, only 1 short trail seen (3mm long max) looks like the pyrethrin could have cut his mining career short as the trail never got any longer and none seen since

Day 21, end of week 3, still next to no vertical growth, small amount of horizontal growth. Lower branches are coming along, getting new leaf growth. It looks too tight and bushy to me, but this is my first DWC so I'm unsure if this is normal. My outdoor soil grows always stretched more, and its what I'm used to seeing(although much slower growth), so I guess ill run with it.
Also I've added foil under the plants for Two Reasons 1. More light distribution, And 2. I noticed the top of the rockwool was starting to get a little algae growth, so it should help starve the algae of light. Im hoping the algae dies off by itself or I might end up using a small spot dose with an algaecide, only if necessary.

Pictures of how tight and "bushy" they are. (Thinking of culling some more leaves to let light through)

Sorry about picture quality, I will get better with practice.

That's pretty much where I am at so far, I will try get some root pictures up soon, I didn't realize how fast the roots grow!
A friend has been coming around every so often to help with keeping PH levels in balance, just thought id throw that in.


Any questions and advice are more than welcome.

I also have a questions of my own.
I was hoping to only keep the existing branches, and have them grow evenly into tops, is this a realistic plan, or doomed to fail?
Should I be doing anything else to help the lower branch growth?
Any advice at all?

 

[Coonass]

Looks promising smoky you can do lst, and it will expose your lower bud sites are you can leaf tuck also i tucked my Amnesia Auto and she blew up and stayed short i have a half ass journal up u can check out just watch the temp and ph and you should be happy

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[SmokeyBloke]

Cheers Coonass
Wow your Amnesia looks Beautiful, great work! Great size for sure
I haven't heard of leaf tucking before, I did a little bit of looking around and didn't find much at all about it either.
Do you just bend the shade leaves down out of the way?
I have some things plastic coated wire for lst, I wasn't quite sure when to start as they haven't stretched upwards much. I guess this would be a good time before they get too woody
Weirdly enough on one of them the bottom branches have split in two by themselves as if they had been topped. The upside is it will be easier to get them into the light
Thanks heaps for the advice

 

[Coonass]

I would fold them up say like a oyster closes up and tie them up i will put a pic up as a lil diagram and it works u might have a tiny bit of marks on the leaves when they grow but no biggy

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[SGreenman90]

I've been wanting to create a similar DWC using 4 plants in 2 18gal tubs for my 4'x4' Scrog tent. I'll probably wait until my next grow. Until then I'll keep an eye on how your goes, hopefully I can learn along with you! Keep up the good work

 

[Coonass]

Ive never done DWC ive always done outdoor got nosy fuking neighbors now i should have bought the house next to me so now im a indoor grower more monitoring and less room but u know GOTTA POP THAT INDOOR CHERRY$$

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[SmokeyBloke]

I'll definitely be doing that tuck method from here on out, the added time from trimming is frustrating.
Thanks guys! I was actually surprised how simple and easy the DWC was to set up.
As you said Coonass, it is WAY more monitoring inside, but I find it adds to the excitement haha.

Damn nosey neighbors! I started growing inside because we moved to the city from the sticks.
And our area has the copper choppers out a bit as there is a lot of crime.

I'll try do an update tonight, tis the season to be busy.

 

[Lazarus13]

Leaf tucking and ponytailing if you want to really get light under her skirt and spread those bottom growth tips out.
Also be aware that foil can create hot spots from reflection and can burn your leaves so keep an eye out for that. White painted wood or plastic or even cardboard is a good reflective option or the reflector shades used in car windshields can be cut and fit together and some of those look like the same material in grow tents.
Your plant will probably stay short and bushy for a while while the root ball is building and then the upstairs should take off. Like 2"-3"+ a day growth. Its really cool to watch.
Congrats making it this far and good luck bro.

 

[jayne]

subbed.

 

[SmokeyBloke]

Hi all,
its been a bit longer than id prefer between updates, but my busy period is over now, so back on track.

I tried the leaf tuck method, and I just couldn't seem to get as much light in as I wanted.
(Possibly just the way I was doing it.)
So I ended up pruning instead.


Week 4 Veg (Days 22 to 28)

Nutrients at Half strength.
Growth in week 4 has been good, horizontal growth as I had been hoping for. Only about 1.5cm but I'm happy with that, I don't want monsters. They are still bushy and healthy looking. Although the new growth on the tips of the lower branches are starting to grow on a downwards angle a little. I think its from the foil underneath, so I will be covering that with cardboard.


One of the things that I have noticed this week are strange curved leaves. I'm not sure what causes this but I don't think I will worry too much at the moment. There are only a couple leaves here and there that look like it.

Day 24
Did a shade leaf cull, I took most of them off, letting lots of light in.
I did take off a couple of leaves that looked weird, curved in a way I haven't seen before.

Strange as it was only a couple of leaves here and there that had curved like that. I don't think its much to worry about at this stage.
Another thing I noticed is only on one plant, the lowest branches have split in two like they have been topped.
I guess its not a bad thing, the only thing is I have to train them a bit differently to get them enough light.

They look Quite healthy otherwise

Week 5 Veg (Days 29 to 35)

Changed from Half strength Nutrients to Three Quarter strength Nutrients.
So I have covered the foil underneath the plants with cardboard, the growth tips started looking up within a few hours.
They look good to me, the leaves are growing rapidly and I'm thinking I will do another trim soon. The roots are looking nice and are growing well I think.

I'm happy with how things are going at the moment. PH has been fairly stable, it hasn't fluctuated drastically.
I'm thinking of doing another trim tonight, ill try do an update afterwards.

 

[SmokeyBloke]

Thanks Lazarus, great info!
I will be watching the roots a bit more, I didn't realise it would do that, but I guess putting more energy into root production early would help now I think about it.
Ill look into getting some of those reflector shades you mentioned, they could be easier to work with than foil, and stronger wich will be handy.
Thanks again

 

[SmokeyBloke]

Hi All,
A small trim, and an upgraded enclosure are all that has happened with in the past week or so.

Week 5 Veg (Days 29 to 35)

A small trim this week has helped to open up and let some side shoots start growing in the right direction.
I also turned the pots around to help even growth, as the lower branches on the inside had a small growth spurt.
Also I had replaced the foil surrounding the plants with car windscreen visors, it looks neater and the light disperses nice and evenly.

Week 6 (Days 36 to 42)

Changed Nutrient levels to between three quarters and full strength.
This week I have decided to make a bigger area for the plants to grow.
Something a bit sturdier than what I started with.
So I had parts of a bed frame in the shed, some thin bits of wood, bought some more windscreen reflectors.
Mounted the light to two lengths of thin wood, screwed the wood to the bed frames I used for walls, then put all of the reflective material inside of it.
For extra air movement, on both sides next to the light there is an exhaust fan blowing downwards at the plants, also there is a fan inside sitting at container top level, angled slightly upwards blowing across the inside of the enclosure.
The container has been sat upon pavers to get it higher up off the ground and slightly closer to the light.

I'm not too sure if the light is too far away at this point?

 

[SmokeyBloke]

SmokeyBloke here,
As usual its been a while, ill get straight into it.

Week 7 Veg (Days 43 to 49)

Growth is steady this week, they have grown outwards a little but are getting dense again.
The plant on the right isn't filling out as well as the one on the left, a few things to take into account are:
1. The seeds were mixed bag weed seeds that I have collected over the past 12 months, so most likely they are different strains.
2. Until recently the light was not properly centralised over both plants, possibly wasn't getting its fair share of light.
3. This is the plant that the bottom branches split into two by itself (without being topped). I'm not sure if this is related but this plant is the only one that gets leaves with even amounts of fingers. Also a branch or two look like they are conjoined twins growing as one (kind of oval shape), throwing off 2 shade leaves and nodes directly next to each other. Most of the time the growing tip is growing at a right angle in a strange direction.
Its hard to get a picture that shows this characteristic properly as the growth tip is always extremely dense with new leaves.
Ive never seen this on a plant, has anyone else?

Thought: I wonder if the plant self topping and having even fingered leaves (fully symmetrical some of the time) could be warning signs of a hermie. Ill keep an eye on that.

I did a small trim, not a lot was needed really.

Week 8 Veg (Days 50 to 56)

I feel the growth is constant and steady, there are many small side branches starting to grow, although there are still many that aren't getting the light required for optimal growth.
The decision to make a screen was made as I don't want to cut off anything until I know it wont produce decent bud. Hopefully this will help spread the light, with complimentary trimming to help.
I did a test run on the screen, I think its a little early yet and they need a bit more growth before the screen goes on. Although as an alternative I gently bent the tallest branches down and the shorter ones up, then spaced them as evenly as possible.
It worked quite well on the left plant, the one on the right is growing in a way that makes it hard to get light through to the lower branches.
They also had another small trim.

Week 9 Veg (Days 57 to 63)

The extra growth I was looking for came quickly, I put the screen over just a few days after the last trim and train session. I forgot to take before and after pictures at the time, and only took pictures at the end of week 9 (Day 63)

Since being under the screen growth has sped up quite a bit, after only 5 days it is filling out the screen nicely.
They have become very dense bushes compared to my soil grows. There are side branches that are starting to grow over each other, the larger shading the smaller, some have opened the leaves but wont branch out.

I treated them both with some tough love and gave them a hard trim, for light penetration although as a bonus it was way easier to arrange the plant into the screen.
I almost feel as if I should cut some of the smaller branches that just don't get enough light and have stunted growth.
For example in the picture below is a bottom branch that topped itself, notice the left side grew maybe an inch and the right side is over triple the length.

I am sure there are 2 or 3 similar that might need the chop as well. Although with the smaller growth from the main branches, I think I should keep them until they stretch more and I can try fill out more of the screen. I don't like the idea of cutting much growth off as I don't have the time, room or equipment for clones, and hate wasting. As long as I trim and train enough to keep them apart until then.
Any thoughts or advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
These buggers are throwing me off a bit with how dense and close the growth is!

As you can see they are close and starting to grow into each other, I'm hoping to be able to train them in a way that can keep both plants where they are and maximise use of the screen. One plant only next time around I think.

 

[davidw44]

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[Teddy Edwards]

Hope all is well in your world.

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