The Candlelight Club: Support Group For Those Running 400W & Less

[TorturedSoul]

I was referring more to the Auto flowering strains. Most indica are shorter but that does not mean they don't require a high intensity light.

In truth, I was being ever so slightly facetious.

Just finished curing some type of skunk got 133 grams dry. This is grown under 180 watts of led (mars II 400) tried to do a sea of green in a 32" X 32" tent with 8, 6" square pots the picture is my best one of the bunch.

trophy.jpg

• Weavel
• Mar 29, 2018

I might have picked off some of those lower flowers as they formed, perhaps employed a little temporary bondage on the primary stem (meristem? main stem? I cannot think when my headache gets this bad...) in order to force the plant to do some auxin redistribution to cause its secondaries to grow to the same length.

On the other hand, lol... I might have done neither of those things. That's a nice looking plant, and not a bad yield for the light. Pat yourself on the back and enjoy the quarter-pound(+) of bud that YOU made.

HEY... When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought it was going to exclusively focus on CFLs and suchlike, rather than be more about grows - using whatever type of lighting - that are of a certain total wattage. I'm pretty chuffed at being in error. Anyway, since HID lighting is an acceptable facet of the discussion, here's a little thread I bookmarked some while back. I don't think the member is here any more, sadly. And he might have been able to improve his setup somewhat (and may well have, later). Nonetheless, perhaps it'll fit in?
150W HPS - 18 pics - 9 weeks flower
Just a little "cheap as chips" light.

I don't have anything like that showing 70-watt HPS bulbs. Their efficiency isn't good, and their intensity / penetrative ability is very small. But one could walk into an electrical supply store and walk out with the components for a 70-watt setup for a reasonable price. (I wouldn't go to a "grow shop" looking for such things, because you'd end up getting hosed.)

I wondered briefly about the potential (if any) in a grow that used multiple low-wattage HIDs. As in 170-watt or less. Probably not really cost-effective, IMHO. But IDK.

 

[TheFertilizer]

@TorturedSoul

Wow that's a lot to reply to haha Well, first of all, no worries on using a non-Windows computer *points to his new avatar*

Yeah I didn't want or intend this to turn into a, "CFLs are just as good!" type of thread. I mean, I want to balance it out with the cold hard truth that more light energy means more photosynthesis. But, not all of us can manage to use more light, for a myriad of different reasons. I'm in the same boat as you are with a house that has old wiring. So we gotta do what we gotta do, and we've kind of learned and adapted on our own, but I feel like there's a lot of newbies out there who may read those types of statements that it's a waste to grow without 'x' number of watts and be discouraged from ever even starting.

I also like that you also introduced the idea of harvest quality versus harvest quantity though. I've never been able to use a super strong light, and so I think I was just expecting that if I switched to a 1k light I'd get 1 gpw easy-peasy. I hoped that part of the benefit of starting this thread would be to hear from other growers who have experience in switching, and though I'm not really pleased to hear you had a sub-par crop, I appreciate that you can share that information with us to give people pause on just running out and buying more light. It's interesting to think that while there may be more gross yield, that more of it may be less quality. Personally whenever I count my yield figures, I don't count airy buds, and I trim super heavy, so for all I know there's a difference in how people are calculating yield as well.

On the topic of encouraging someone, I had a bit of a mentor helping me out, setting things up, and I had my little CFL lights and was asking him, "How much yield do you think I'm going to get?" and he'd say , "Well good growers get a gram per watt," but that's with like 1000 w lights." He never said something like, "Well you're going to get barely anything," or something discouraging, and let me be excited about growing even though he knew I wasn't going to yield much of anything. When I went out and bought a pack of mason jars for my "harvest" he'd kind of gently suggest, "You probably will only need one big jar," but that's as close as he ever got to a discouraging tone about it.

I think on top of that there's a lot of people who are unsure if they want to get into growing, or they've only ever grown outdoors, and are scared of investing the money into a large light and setup, and so I tend to think it's harder for those people to become aware of low-light options.

Plus if you start with low light, you are more intimately aware of the bottom end restrictions. I mean when people see what they can produce with just a handful of CFLs, it's going to be a no-brainer to them to then go and invest in a proper light, but that's where the problem comes because "proper" can lead them down a path of, "If you get anything less than x watts it's not worth it." Meanwhile, the people who grew out a couple ounces under some CFLs can think critically about that and go, "Well if I got that much with CFLs, then I should be able to get a decent amount of a 400 w," and not be lead too far astray by those that would discourage them. Sadly, I think that because there is so much of that "You need at least x watts" advice floating around, that people reiterate it in earnest without realizing the discouraging effect it can have.

Beyond that, I think there's a general attitude of "more is better" that I don't really like, and I think you're on board with me there when you mentioned how you liked some of your smaller yielding harvests. I think people today are so caught up in consumerism, that it's really not so much about how well the light grows the plant, but the warm fuzzy feeling people get from buying that new awesome light. I mean, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I've seen a lot of people more excited about their new shiny light than for their whole crop that they grow with it. I understand it because as a consumer I've been programmed and conditioned to be happy over the same crap; everyone loves to get a new toy. It's cool, and everyone is happy for you, and so that's why you see people sometimes brag about it too, like, "Look at this bad boy I just got!" I'm not criticizing it, I'm just pointing it out.

Meanwhile, where's the room for bragging rights on being efficient? It's really ironic to me, because there's so many growers who pride themselves on being organic, and try to make a big deal about being ecofriendly, but then they're steadily using kilowatts upon kilowatts for their lights. Well all that energy has to come from somewhere right? I mean, think about it, they just had a campaign not to long ago to try to get people to unplug their power bars because of the light energy the little indicator LEDs use. If that's enough of a contribution to our overall "global carbon footprint" then I wonder how much pot growers are contributing to that carbon footprint with our huge ass lights. "The more light the better" might be better for our grow rooms, but perhaps not for the world outside of it. So I think people using low levels of light should get some kind of kudos for that. Instead, they're typically told how abysmally low their yields will be.

Anyway, I'm sure I'm not addressing everything you said, and going off on my own tangents, but anyway it's definitely not a thread about CFL, or any one lighting technology in general. Hell this thread has already went down a bit of a philosophical tangent multiple times. Really I just want it to be more of a general "support group" for people restricted to or choosing to use low light.

Yeah the multiple-light idea probably is not cost-effective for a personal grower, but it might get that way soon. I've seen people pack 3x Mars 300 lights into the same space they'd put a large HID and do really well, but you have to consider that most of the savings in that setup come in the form of energy-use reduction because 3 of those lights will still probably cost more than a single large HID.

 

[TorturedSoul]

this thread has already went down a bit of a philosophical tangent multiple times.

I sorry.

Really I just want it to be more of a general "support group" for people restricted to or choosing to use low light.

Works for me.

Yeah the multiple-light idea probably is not cost-effective for a personal grower, but it might get that way soon. I've seen people pack 3x Mars 300 lights into the same space they'd put a large HID and do really well, but you have to consider that most of the savings in that setup come in the form of energy-use reduction because 3 of those lights will still probably cost more than a single large HID.

Lol, aren't those lights pretty cheap? I mean not cheap like a hamburger, but more like they're honest about selling cheap Chinese lights - so they aren't trying to get rich off of each sale. I can't swear to it, because it came to me used - and was actually a pre-production prototype, I think - but I'm pretty sure that the list price on my 350-watt light panel was about a grand. But it's at least as powerful as my 400-watt HPS setup. Of course that was a little cheaper, lol; think the Lumatek dimmable ballast was $119, the flimsy open aluminum reflector was $29 (and worth about five bucks, but it came with a cord and ceramic mogul socket), and I got the Lumatek-branded 400-watt HPS bulb on sale for $29. So $177 (free shipping) all in.

 

[TheFertilizer]

I sorry.



Works for me.



Lol, aren't those lights pretty cheap? I mean not cheap like a hamburger, but more like they're honest about selling cheap Chinese lights - so they aren't trying to get rich off of each sale. I can't swear to it, because it came to me used - and was actually a pre-production prototype, I think - but I'm pretty sure that the list price on my 350-watt light panel was about a grand. But it's at least as powerful as my 400-watt HPS setup. Of course that was a little cheaper, lol; think the Lumatek dimmable ballast was $119, the flimsy open aluminum reflector was $29 (and worth about five bucks, but it came with a cord and ceramic mogul socket), and I got the Lumatek-branded 400-watt HPS bulb on sale for $29. So $177 (free shipping) all in.

Nah I didn't mean that as a bad thing. I just don't carry the right tone on the internet, in text/written-language...

I'm not really sure how quality the Mars are compared to other lights but I've heard decent things. That's part of what I found daunting about looking at the LED market, was all the difference in opinion over what were quality lights. It made it pretty hard to feel confident about making a choice.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Eh... Most everything I see any more is built as cheaply as possible. Kind of makes even the bargain-bin priced stuff seem overpriced.

I'm starting to think we ought to just buy the really cheap stuff, lol.
6040-F2525 A1 COB - Legit or cheap knockoff?

 

[TheFertilizer]

Eh... Most everything I see any more is built as cheaply as possible. Kind of makes even the bargain-bin priced stuff seem overpriced.

I'm starting to think we ought to just buy the really cheap stuff, lol.
6040-F2525 A1 COB - Legit or cheap knockoff?

Those look pretty interesting. Yeah I thought about COB when you mentioned multiple low-watt light setups, but I was only really aware of the CREE ones that are farily spendy. I just found a listing for those ones for about $5 for 3, so it seems like most of the cost would go into wiring and building heatsinks. Though I wonder what kind of PAR they put out and how many would be needed.

I think there's a nice balance to be struck between having a light built for you that you can just buy, versus doing it yourself, because I remember back when the MH/HPS digital ballasts weren't really as ubiquitous as they are now and there were a lot of people doing DIY setups. Once Apollo started offering them pretty cheap, a lot more people started trying them out.

 

[TorturedSoul]

When I first encountered that thread, I did some looking around on the "A" and saw "blurple" and "white" light both available in those things. If I still had reliable work - and an electrical system that was younger than my mother - I'd probably have bought a couple of those every week or three until I had a mixture at about one per square foot, maybe even some on the walls.

And some weeks later, I'd probably either be griping about the lack of efficiency or the number or dead components I was having to replace, lol.

I just did a quick mental count, and I probably have enough in CFL and 4' tubes to do a decent grow (if I have not given away more than I recall having done). Someone was kind enough to give me a lot of her "newbie" grow lighting when she upgraded, and I have given much away. I should probably dig some of it out of the shed tomorrow for initial lighting purposes.

And that reminds me... I forgot to check on those seeds that I dropped into cups for a soak two weeks ago <WHOOPS!> . Yikes, if I don't break that bad behavior pretty soon, I'll be lucky to grow peppers. I wonder if I have any auto-flower seeds left?

I would almost set up one (photoperiodic) plant under four double-bulb 4' fluorescent fixtures as a scrog. I would if I had four to five more amps in electrical capacity and could pay the bill in the currency of kind thoughts, lol. I'd probably end up cannibalizing the fixtures for parts so that I could get eight or ten bulbs closer together.

BtW, does everyone still browse Craigslist and/or their local (print) trading paper for materials? The other day I saw a bunch of HPS and MH fixtures (mostly 400-watt ones, but some 250-watt) for $25 and $15 each. A proper tinkerer would open up the cases and add enough wire to the runs that they could position the (built-in) ballasts outside of the grow room - and go buy new bulbs, even if they were the $19 el cheapo type - but that's still a pretty good deal in my book. Almost all of those things can be set up for either 120V or 240V by merely moving a wire or two (and this is generally clearly shown on the schematic that's glued to the thing somewhere). I've done that in the past, but it has been... Wow. 20+ years, WtF?! Seems like just yesterday. No wonder my buddy looked at me funny when he asked if I'd been listening to any really good recently released good rock & roll yesterday and I replied, "Just Deep Purple's Slaves and Masters."

I've seen tag end rolls of duct wrap insulation, too, which is somewhat more reflective than the average brick wall (lol) and provides some tiny bit of insulating value, for next to nothing. Also, going for a walk - or drive, for the rich folks in the audience - and striking up conversations with people at building sites can be productive. It helps to be... Now I don't want to "sound" prejudiced here, or like a hypocrite (you'd have to see me on a good day to get that, ha ha) - but it helps to be dressed in reasonably decent clothes and such. Probably because there are more job-site thefts than there used to be. Anyway, they often end up throwing away the remainder of things like wire, flexible water line, duct wrap, and little bits of wood. Not much per job, just what they'd consider scrap - or an annoyance to have to haul around and keep track of.

But if one is a small-time grower - or has aspirations of same - then such things could be a real boon. Especially if one gets lucky at multiple building sites. I've asked about several things before and been told, "Uh... Twenty bucks for everything in that pile, and you can't be making a mess while you're getting it." And, "That stuff? You can have it, buddy." Of course, I've also been told, "No." But I have never been chased away like a bandit, lol. (IOW, it can't hurt to ask. And, like my brother says, "The answer is always no - unless you ask.")

I realize this is off-topic. I meant to just suggest scanning Craigslist for moderate-wattage HIDs, because places are upgrading(?(????)) to LED lighting. But... While there are several reasons for one to wish to grow with (relatively) low wattage light setups, not having much money is often one of those - so I thought the suggestions might prove useful to some of those who are viewing this thread.

Ohwaitaminute... On-topic content ahead, lol.

CFL bulbs. I'm a big fan of making homemade reflectors out of soda cans. They help a little (and when your bulb might be 23 watts or less, not taking advantage of as much of its output as possible seems like a Bad Idea) - and one can get the materials cheaply enough to be able to do some "practice" ones without stressing out. A Dremel tool helps, but cans are thin enough to cut with most anything.

Huh. This website will not allow me to insert images from... this website .

https://www.420magazine.com/community/data/avatars/m/230/230931.jpg?1522390255

 

[TheFertilizer]

I think I've seen used lighting a total of once on CL. I don't think I live in a large enough metro area, because I tend to see them from larger metropolis areas more often.

Just how limited are you electricity wise with that old knob and tube setup? I have the glass style fuses, but at least it's still a 30 amp service box.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I think I've seen used lighting a total of once on CL. I don't think I live in a large enough metro area, because I tend to see them from larger metropolis areas more often.

There are probably a whopping 35,000 people around me - if I count the two counties my town sets on the border of. Try browsing the "materials" section if your search terms don't show anything useful on the entire sales area.

Just how limited are you electricity wise with that old knob and tube setup? I have the glass style fuses, but at least it's still a 30 amp service box.

I've got a 30-amp fuse box, too. Don't you just love them?[/SARCASM]

So... 30 ampere total house capacity. When new. I can tell that a lot of the wiring is "a bit" corroded. I'm sure that does wonderful things to the resistance along those wire runs. And, since my wiring type has not been to code for at least 50 and probably 75 or more years, I wouldn't be surprised if any repairs/splices were half-@ssed. You don't exactly see electricians carrying solder pots these days.

It's been a while since I thought about it, but doesn't that reduce the actual capacity, in practical terms? I've also checked my voltage here and there, now and then... And seen figures as low as 104VAC, if I remember correctly. Hmm... I don't remember. If amps equals watts divided by volts... And 120V electrical devices' amperage figures are calculated based on actually seeing 120VAC at the outlet... Am I actually looking at higher amp loads when my voltage takes a sh!t, lol? I'm pretty sure that's a "yes," since switching ballasts from 120VAC to 240VAC effectively halves the amperage.

Anyway, not counting any of the above... IIRC, my refrigerator tag lists 11.something or 12.something amp load. It's decades old. Great at... not much at all, really. Milk never makes it to the sell by date, lofl. But it works, more or less - and works quite often . I've got a sump pump, don't remember if it's 1/2 or 3/4 horsepower. But it runs A LOT because the genius that built my house wanted a basement so bad he didn't seem to be bothered by the fact that there's a @#%^ing spring (barely) under it. A buddy told me that the way you set up a sump pump is to dig a little hole, pour some concrete so it's basically a basin, slope the floor a bit so that water in your basement drains into the pit, then the pump eventually kicks on (eventually... LMFAO) and pumps it out. Mine... It's like 50" or 52" deep, some kind of metal walls, cylindrical - and a dirt floor. This pit fills up (and it holds a boatload of water) around once per half hour. From the looks of the floor and two basement walls, someone put it in after the floor was burst by water pressure (but that's a guess). I know when the power is off, I have water coming in all along the three big cracks in the concrete floor. Anyway, sump pump - necessity, can't do without that.

I really don't like to run at over 80% capacity. That's just an unwritten rule for me. However, I would not be terribly surprised if the above hits that figure (24 amps).

Laptop = 93 watts. When the battery worked, I'd charge it and then unplug the cord. A working battery would be real handy now that I've tripped over that cord and broken something inside the power port. If I'm not gentle when I place my hands on the keyboard, the power connection <BLINKS> - and my laptop is now off. That was a bit of a pain in the @ss when the previous forum software was in use. Now that it has been ????-graded to one that does not seem to have a PM/post auto-save function, I lose four or more posts (that I am working on) per week. But anyway...

I have a forced-air furnace. IDK how many amps the blower uses. It is, of course, 120VAC, so more than I'd like (at this point, one would be more than I'd like, lol). Now I don't run my furnace any more than I need to do in order to keep the pipes from freezing in the Winter. And it's pretty much warmer than that now, even when it drops to mid-30s at night (and the nights when that happen are almost done until Autumn at least). But I probably ought to count its load, just in case.

Microwave... IDFK. 1,200 watts, I think. 10 amps, rated, I suppose. Higher when the voltage is tanking (although, come to think of it, I have seen my voltage be as high as 113V a couple of times). I do try to eat once in a while. With the raging toothache (and not being rich), it really is "once in a while." But, yeah, I use the microwave from time to time.

I have had fuse-blowing incidents with just the above going. Grow room...?

I saved up for almost three years so I could buy one of those front-loading washing machines. But that SOB died like a week after the warranty did, so that's not currently a factor.

I like to see after dark. I think the CFL where I spend most of the time after dark is a 13-watt one, but it might be a 23- or 24-watt one. I try to use the LED flash on my cell phone when I'm doing stuff in other parts of the house. However, as you can imagine, this is not always extremely convenient. Plus, it's battery is technically not user removable. And the phone is... three years old, I think? Regardless, I worry every time I charge the thing that this will be the time that I remove it from the charger and the battery is pooched. So I've been trying to not use it all that often. <SIGH> but I tend to go just a little(?) bit insane if I cannot read on a daily basis. I can't really see to read actual books any more, so I read eBooks... on my phone. What can ya do, lol?

So let's see... Deduct the above from 30. Now add grow light(s), fan(s), at least one air pump and one aquarium power head (low wattage, I suppose, but must still be counted) if I run DWC instead of that hated soil. Oh, yeah, and since it easily gets into the 90s here if it's nice outside without running any kind of grow lights, I'd really like to run the window AC, too. Only if I'm home, of course, because that way I can play "haul big buckets full of water" all freaking day long instead of having the sump pump plugged in. I actually wouldn't mind doing that if my shoulders, one arm, and one leg weren't in such poor condition. I could be dumping some of that into my toilet tank and saving a dollar or two each month, probably. As it is, though, it's a wonder I'm not crying half the time .

That's about it. I actually have a television, but rarely watch the thing. If company comes over... I hope they don't want to see something on it. Or arrive when the sun is going down. Or want something to eat, for that matter (for multiple reasons). But sometimes we cannot always get what we want. Otherwise I wouldn't have had to walk all over town the other night to... scavage when I ran out of food after I had already ran out of money... I could have taken a cab to do it. (That is supposed to be a joke. Ha. Ha.)

I do occasionally run a vacuum cleaner. Once upon a time I ran an electric coffee grinder now and then - but I burned that up grinding pellatized lime into powder. But I always try to remember to unplug my sump pump AND refrigerator when running something extra, just in case. Because the corner where my fuse box is, well, the floor is one big puddle most of the time. Shame they hadn't placed the sump pump pit over there, huh? So I have HIGH anxiety if I have to go change a fuse. Plus I don't currently own and spares. I've thought about unscrewing them, placing a penny in each socket, and screwing them back in. But, you know... right now my house isn't on fire - and that seems like a state that I would like to maintain for as long as possible.

The question is fast becoming an academic one anyway. Lately, the thought of growing - or even smoking - cannabis just depresses the <BLEEP> out of me. So IDK if I'm even going to bother again at this point. Besides, if there's anything that I've touched that I haven't screwed up in the last... the last... ever, IDFK what it would have been.

Life. It eventually kills ya - but it likes to kick the sh!t out of you as much and as often as possible for a while, first. I guess it's doing you a favor, lol. That way, when a person finally heads off to take that big dirt nap, it's not like they're wishing they could stick around or anything.

EDIT: From the looks of my service (entry? whatever the thing before the meter is called) cable, though, someone will probably be nice enough to shut my electricity off the next time a lineman comes through the neighborhood.

 

[Jackalope]

One never knows where a thread will go LOL. No matter how you word it people will soon wander off topic. Some for the best others end up in the gutter LMAO.

 

[TheFertilizer]

One never knows where a thread will go LOL. No matter how you word it people will soon wander off topic. Some for the best others end up in the gutter LMAO.

Yeah I think it's a fair discussion though because I think a lot of people don't really think about these types of restrictions. Modern homes tend to have 100+ amp service boxes, so it's pretty unlikely they see a lot of tripped breakers by running even a 2k W light, unless they're running several and the A/Cs to cool them. For people like myself or TorturedSoul, we're living with our entire homes running on 1/3 of that, and often stuck with appliances that aren't very energy efficient either. It creates a situation where a simple microwave oven will blow our fuses. Then there's the other nuances he mentioned with old wiring.

Yes every grower would like efficient lights, but few actually need efficient lights in the same way that someone like him or I might need them, and so it creates a rift in advice because they don't understand why a person would even be interested in a low energy light without being familiar with these types of hardships. I frequently find growers saying, "You'll yield more off this light to make it worth what you'd save in electricity with this light," as if it was the power bill that was the primary motivating factor. The idea of a 600 W light blowing fuses is so foreign to some growers they don't ever consider any other reason why a person would be limiting their energy consumption. The assumption is that you either don't want to spend the extra money on the initial purchase, or that you think cost of ownership would be less, but rarely do growers consider any other motivation.

I don't mean to sound so spiteful towards growers who can use large energy lights, but it just becomes very frustrating to see them give no consideration to these types of needs. Honestly, some of them are far less earnest in wanting to help growers than others, and are just more in it to flame or troll them--not so much on this forum but around the grand ol' interweb. Then in addition to that, so few earnest growers are using low-intensity lights that the good support tips that other growers can get about using low light are few and far between. That was the biggest reason I made this thread, because I felt like it would be a good way to bring people with actual experience running low-light together and benefit from each other's knowledge.

I think it would be great if there were a way to motivate people to use low intensity lights even when they're not necessarily restricted; make it more appealing as a choice. I think lighting technologies like LED and CMH are beginning to foster this mentality. People are starting to care more about light quality than light quantity. Things like PAR, wider spectrum, etc. are characteristics of light that make a big difference and people are finally beginning to account them into their thinking, but that was taking advantage of by marketing schemes and so is now obfuscated into the point where many high-energy type growers are suggesting to just ignore such characteristics and focus on raw energy output.

I'd like to see that trend toward considering light quality over quantity increase, because it works out good for growers restricted to low amounts of energy for such technologies to be created. Right now LED and CMH are pretty much the kings of PAR:watt lighting efficiency, but I see a lot of people being urged to disregard efficiency and just go for more wattage. I don't know which trend will win out, but I think it's easy to see that fostering the trend which will create more energy-efficient lighting will be better for everyone in the long run, while not being a detriment to people who want to use more traditional lighting technologies.

Outside of better efficiency and better light quality, I'm not really sure what factors could motivate people to stray from the tradition of high-wattage HPS lighting. The biggest factor I've seen draw people in as converts, is that the increased UV in LED and CMH lighting increases resin and terpene production. But convincing people that this new light will give them better bud, and that it's not just snakeoil, is a tall task and I'm not really sure how much headway people are making. The interest is there, but demand just isn't really there yet, and so the unfortunate side-effect of that is the prices on all of these light technologies will remain high, and the information on how to use them will remain obscure, until their adoption increases.

Well I keep meaning to wrap this up and then have another thought... Stoner rambling.

 

[Weavel]

Not sure if the people will actually use less light, as the lights have gotten more efficient people just used more lights (this is true in everyday life ).. If i remember correctly it was called the lighting paradox.

 

[Growwithme420]

Not sure if the people will actually use less light, as the lights have gotten more efficient people just used more lights (this is true in everyday life ).. If i remember correctly it was called the lighting paradox.

lol nailed it

 

[TheFertilizer]

Not sure if the people will actually use less light, as the lights have gotten more efficient people just used more lights (this is true in everyday life ).. If i remember correctly it was called the lighting paradox.

It's not to say people will use less light, it's that the drive toward more efficient lighting will benefit the people who need to use less lights. Even if people do end up using more of them, the adoption of that new technology will hopefully lead to more improvements and increased access.

 

[Jackalope]

I've grown with 40 watt shop lights and 1000 watt HPS. I mostly prefer the more is better side of the argument. Like has been mentioned some houses and lifestyles requirements mean only certain lights can be used. One thing for sure knowing how to grow with less wattage is something better done when you don't have to depend on it. I have to admit that the 1000 watt light I use does most of the work for me. Growing with less now would be a challenge.

 

[TorturedSoul]

One never knows where a thread will go LOL. No matter how you word it people will soon wander off topic. Some for the best others end up in the gutter LMAO.

Err... . I'm probably the worst offender out of the entire forum user base. I should put "If my off-topic rambling offends you, feel free to let me know!" in my .SIG.

For people like myself or TorturedSoul, we're living with our entire homes running on 1/3 of that, and often stuck with appliances that aren't very energy efficient either.

Lol, yeah. If one cannot afford to upgrade their house's wiring to circa 1950s technology, one probably cannot go out and purchase new appliances, either. I just had a look at my furnace, and I'm doubtful that it'll be safe to use for another season. And by "safe" I'm ignoring the fact that the... remains of the gas control valve have been held open with a creative use of an old disk-type spark plug gap adjuster (which shouldn't be used for adjusting spark plugs anyway ) and about four feet of jute twine for going on... 11 or 12 years, IIRC. Replaced the thermocouple (after testing the old one told me it was good, but it was the cheapest thing to buy, lol) and every sensor I could find on the thing and it still wouldn't run for more than ten minutes without taking an hour or so off, followed by multiple attempts to get the pilot light to stay lit. That Winter really sucked. So I figured out how to keep the gas flowing to the pilot light. I guess it'll suck if some freak wind blows it out and then the temperature falls below the thermostat's set temperature. Whoops, rambling again.

Yeah, low-amperage electrical systems suck. Saw an add for two 1,500-watt HPS setups with air-cooled fixtures and a light rail for $250(!!!). "Want to switch to custom LED setup, so I'm selling my HPS flowering setup." I suspect those aren't very efficient - but they'd sure produce some light.

It creates a situation where a simple microwave oven will blow our fuses. Then there's the other nuances he mentioned with old wiring.

I used a hair dryer here... once.

Yes every grower would like efficient lights, but few actually need efficient lights in the same way that someone like him or I might need them, and so it creates a rift in advice because they don't understand why a person would even be interested in a low energy light without being familiar with these types of hardships. I frequently find growers saying, "You'll yield more off this light to make it worth what you'd save in electricity with this light," as if it was the power bill that was the primary motivating factor. The idea of a 600 W light blowing fuses is so foreign to some growers they don't ever consider any other reason why a person would be limiting their energy consumption. The assumption is that you either don't want to spend the extra money on the initial purchase, or that you think cost of ownership would be less, but rarely do growers consider any other motivation.

I ended up taking the LED screw-in light out of the box and sticking it into a round utility light fixture. I think it might be a 10-watt device. Box states it's 1,600 lumen (although this means basically nothing in regards to growing plants, but they didn't list PAR for some reason ha ha). Seemed like it would work okay for a general area light if nothing else. If I had lights all over the house, it might be worth saving up to replace all of them with these. But I might end up hanging it over some seedlings in the near future to see if they respond favorably (no stretching, et cetera). I looked at it pretty closely but couldn't see the actual LEDs (even when running). So I don't know if trying to cut off the plastic globe would be a good idea or not. But I will probably keep my eyes open for any "FREE Energy Efficient Light Bulb" coupons for a while.

I don't mean to sound so spiteful towards growers who can use large energy lights

I'm not a bit spiteful. I'm not even jealous (any more ). It's just a thing.

I think it would be great if there were a way to motivate people to use low intensity lights even when they're not necessarily restricted

I think it would be great if there were a way to motivate people to conserve energy in general. And stop wasting resources (also "in general"). And stop polluting. And to stop shooting people who don't actually deserve it.

<SHRUGS> But I've just about given up on all that. I think I'm getting old.

I'm not really sure what factors could motivate people to stray from the tradition of high-wattage HPS lighting. The biggest factor I've seen draw people in as converts, is that the increased UV in LED and CMH lighting increases resin and terpene production.

Yeah, that's not really... Do a web-search for "ReptiSun 10.0," lol. It's easy to add supplemental UV. And good old-fashioned metal halide bulbs produce quite a bit of UV. That's why unjacketed MH bulbs aren't rated for use in open fixtures where people will be. (Most are jacketed these days, AfaIK, but...)

I guess you don't have to actually tell people stuff like that. Anyway...

I'd like to see people do the best that they can. This generally means providing the most illumination that they are able. OtOH, I don't expect them to re-wire their home in the process. And, for those who do not sell product, their budget might not allow bright lights even if their electrical system will. I've often said, "Well how much does a lid cost you if you have to buy it instead of grow it?" But THAT doesn't take into consideration all the people who have to do without if they aren't growing enough to supply themselves because they can't afford to buy an ounce. For them, it's a meaningless question. I still ask it, though. I've encountered a lot of "poor" people that can't seem to afford decent grow supplies who have $500 cell phones, Playstations/X-Boxes, 60" HDTVs, etc. I guess their priorities are different.

Another ten or fifteen years and people will be hurting for food. At that point, they'll be looking for energy efficient grow lights. A few degree increase in the average temperature doesn't sound like much. But the majority of the world's food production will be... compromised. I've begun thinking about doing some research on what kind of crops are being (successfully) grown in the hottest parts of the world, and wondering whether or not it would be wise to start suggesting that the agribusiness industry start looking into them, too. But then I think of Monsanto (and, believe it or not, DuPont) and their ways... Maybe agribusiness shouldn't get advanced preparation time. That time could be used to patent a lot more crops. And, again, my activism days are behind me.

Still... Figure out a GOOD high-efficiency lighting setup and you could get more and more people to grow... something.

I'd like to be able to grow enough per year to supply myself with the Rick Sampson oil (takes a LOT of cannabis, I am told) and to also have ½-ounce per week for the head. And then there are a couple of family members, a couple of friends... I'm going to go back to trying to buy a PowerBall ticket every time the pot gets above $292M, lol.

 

[Preston9mm]

Just chiming in to say hello, then I'll keep quiet. I'm here to learn.

My lighting has been a constant question after a few crappy harvests.

I'm growing in 32 square ft (4X8) with about 600 total watts in lighting. 2- 1000w LED (knock-off) actual is around 250, then I have a pair of 50 watt CFL domes.

I recently got pretty drastic with lowering my lights and have noticed great results, the true test will be my next harvest in a couple weeks.

I definitely look forward to learning from y'all before I go spending a ton of $ to replace/upgrade lights.

-P

 

[Weavel]

For just personal grows I found that 25 watts of led per square foot give a decent yield, with your set up it is about 15 watts, Not counting cfl (I know nothing about growing under cfl)

Also I found several shorter smaller plants do better under my mars 2 400 (180 watts) than one big plant,

I am not a pro by any means just grow pot to smoke not sell and am able to pull .5 - .75 grams per watt with cheap mars lights and miracle grow potting soil.

 

[Preston9mm]

For just personal grows I found that 25 watts of led per square foot give a decent yield, with your set up it is about 15 watts, Not counting cfl (I know nothing about growing under cfl)

Also I found several shorter smaller plants do better under my mars 2 400 (180 watts) than one big plant,

I am not a pro by any means just grow pot to smoke not sell and am able to pull .5 - .75 grams per watt with cheap mars lights and miracle grow potting soil.

You know, I never really paid much attention to it in the past because I've just been growing for myself... And my plants do "good enough" but after being on this site for awhile, I realise how much more potential these seeds really have.
My goal for this year is to get these lights dialed in to produce a big harvest. This .5 oz per plant is getting old. LoL

 

[TorturedSoul]

It's alright if you're growing two or three of them per square foot .