The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said

Javahead

New Member
This steamed from another thread. Since that thread, I have been investigating Brix, or "High BRIX" some. It is interesting to note that the most common factor in high brix, is remineralization of the soil, although, the brix is really a measure of the sugar content. As most of the web info is biased towards a few company's selling the high brix products, I have tried to find more than less independent scientific information that we may all use, that is without bias.

One of the Experts here (at 420) in real time use I think we must agree is Docbud!

His journals are some of the best information we have so far.

I purpose we go further, I was raised as a scientist, I have a reasonable background in most fields. This is how I look at things.

So, the Issue is, how to maximize mineral content in the soil, AND, make those minerals Readily available to the plants.

I had broken this down into a few parts,

A: Optimal microbial, or chemical mineral chelation with soil/hydro environments
I know that microbial chelation and breakdown are the established norms, but in looking at many of the mineral supplements used by growers here, the addition of B12 or Chlorophyll to chelate the supplements, should be of great value.

B: Optimal root transfer of (ionic) minerals through root systems.
If I understand things right, and remember my chem classes right, things like calcium are taken up by the roots as CA(2+) which is an ionic form of the chemical, bonds having been broken by process's in (A)


C: Proper transfer of (ionic) minerals from root systems to leaves, flowers and fruit

As is noted in Text included if phosphate levels are out of adjustment, sugar production is not in balance though the plant as a whole. There may be other minerals that must also be balanced.

d: examination of plants at cellular level to assertain health at all stages and true double blind/peer reviewed data sets

As a person with a science background, I think that rough refractometer reading are a nice place to start, but "by the god's man!" it should not be the end! look at the leaves under a microscope, (ok, lets find a botanist, to do it) look at the cells, what are they telling us at that level? what does a mass spec tell us? come on lets see if Humbolt U. will do a reasearch paper!

-----------------------------------
Some Info I found, Interesting.

Crops with higher refractive index will have a higher sugar content, higher protein content, higher mineral content and a greater specific gravity or density. This adds up to a sweeter tasting, more mineral nutritious feed with lower nitrates and water content and better storage attributes.

Crops with higher Brix will produce more alcohol from fermented sugars and be more resistant to insects, thus resulting in decreased insecticide usage. For insect resistance, maintain a Brix of 12 or higher in the juice of the leaves of most plants. Crops with a higher solids content will have a lower freezing point and therefore be less prone to frost damage.

Brix readings can also indicate soil fertility needs. If soil nutrients are in the best balance and are made available (by microbes) upon demand by plants, readings will be higher.

You will find that when the phosphate levels in the soil are not up to what they should be, the sugar in the plants will vary from the bottom of the plant to the top. In other words, the Brix reading at the bottom of the plant will be higher than the top of the plant. The better the phosphate levels in ratio to potassium the more even the Brix reading will be all over the plant. Also the better the phosphate levels in ratio to potassium the less fluctuation there will be in the brix reading in any given 24 hour period.

You will also note that when you are looking into a refractometer you will sometimes be able to see a very sharp line which is very easy to read, while at other times it may be a very hazy line and not well demarcated and so difficult to read. The very sharp and dark and easy to read line means the crop is lower in calcium and higher in acid. A very diffuse and hard to read line tells one that the calcium is higher and the acid is lower in the plant. This is why a lower Brix reading on a plant will actually taste sweeter when there is high calcium than one that may have a little higher Brix reading and a low calcium. The available soluble sugar is what gives taste and sweetness to food. The more calcium in the crop along with the sugar, the sweeter the taste even though the Brix reading will be the same on two samples.
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

i want to EAT BRIX BUD, so i can do a personal taste test w/ non_BRIX herb-- F' drying/curing... straight off the stem YUM YUM!
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

Perhaps it would be better to raise some strawberries next to or under your other plants :) I knew of a guy that had a very nice setup for organic strawberries, right out in the front of god and the police and everyone. Drew the heat off the grow in the back. And, he had really good strawberries, in the dead of winter.
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

Very interesting post were did you get that info?
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

The attached info is from Brix Test Has Meaning

They list the source for the Info as being

Source: Frontier Labs, Inc; Biologic Ionization as Applied to Farming and Soil Management, Beddoe.

There is also a table on that page, with the Heading "Comparison Chart for Brix Reading", it contains sections on "Fruits", "Grasses", and "Vegetables". With Row information on "Poor", "Average", "Good", and "Excellent" Brix readings.
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

There is a ton of information on here at 420 Magazine about High Brix growing... You could check out DocBud's journals, my 3rd and 4th grow journals as well as a handful of other growers as we all experiment with high brix growing and learn. Some of the other's that are doing high brix focused grows are Curso, Vapedogg, and a few others as well. Your right though, there is not much info about high brix growing on the internet at all and only a few sites to find info on. Good post and I hope more people join in :)
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

I have been continuing my research. At this time I am looking at Microbiology of Soil, that is, all the little critters that live in the soil, and allow the breakdown of minerals, so that plants can absorb them. There is MUCH more that they do. I will not go into it much here, other than to say I DID FIND a place with a LOT of good information on it. It is at THE IMPACT PROJECT. It is a scholarly site, not by (or BUY) anyone trying to sell things.

Whereas they are not "calling it" BRIX, what they are studying IS BRIX. Basically, changing the soil microbiology, to support greater uptake of nutrients, attain better pest control, without pesticides, and in general better, stronger, plants.

From what I have read, this is all part of BRIX, although a somewhat "glossed over" part. A kind of "Add our microorganism booster to the soil" thing. Well this is WHAT microorganisms, why, EXACTLY what part they play in plant physiology, etc.

It may well be a bit over some peoples heads, but I found it GREAT reading. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND IT!
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

thanks for starting this thread, Javahead.

in what research I could understand - I'm NOT a scientist - I found that increasing the calcium is the key to high Brix, too, but nobody seems to know how that is accomplished.

I took to foliar feeding EDTA Calcium twice a month but I don't own a Brix meter and don't know if I'm being effective or just wasting time and materials.

I hope this thread becomes fat with good information.

your Impact Project was a bit thick for me, so when someone translates it into English, I'll be very interested.
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

A 6-5-2 ratio of Calcium carbonate, soft rock phosphate and gypsum is a good start to introduce phosphates and calcium to your grow..This with the addition of rock powders such as azomite, glacial rock powder or other trace mineral sources are also key :)
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

And the best way to start your high brix grow, is to get a weak acid soil test...
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

I use Azomite in my soil but cannot say that I see any improvement. I also activate EM and feed that to the soil prior to planting.

every two weeks, I foliar feed with micros and calcium. I don't see anything monumental with its use, either.

is any of this a step in the right direction?
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

I Am trying dietary bone meal (Calcium, Phosphorous, and Magnesium, + Many trace Minerals (by percentage is calcium, 30.71 percent; phosphorus, 12.86 percent; sodium, 5.69 percent; magnesium, 0.33 percent; potassium, 0.19 percent; and sulfur, 2.51 percent. Other microminerals include copper, iodine, iron, manganese and zinc.)) I am using "dietary bone meal" as I had it in the cupboard, and in re-reading on present data, all common sources of this grade should be QUITE SAFE. I am using a molasses based fertilizer, and on a whim, I added, about a teaspoon of (dietary) brewers yeast to my "mix", along with a teaspoon of bone meal, (as my plants where already at 7 weeks) The yeast is not "active", it is merely food, being high in B complex's and huge amounts of amino acids. My soil was not totally sterile, my pots where not cleaned with bleach, they had dirt in them, from another grow, that with any luck, had microorganisms in it. I am not a fan of the "sterile". It does not lend itself to what we are trying to do. I wanted to add minerals and microminerals, in a chelated form, (partly the reason for B12 (in large amounts in the brewers yeast), it is an organic chelation chemical).

SO, bottom line, my plants seem to be LOVING IT!
(as a scientist, there are too many factors to say that it is this alone(see below), but none the less, they are very happy plants!)

(The temps in my unheated grow room went up recently
& I added some shrouding for the CFLs, basically upping the light
& the fertilizer +minerals boost)
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

Here is a video a while back that I made to show how I take my brix readings with a refractometer.

[video=youtube_share;QvRSKiCabJo]
[/video]

And here is a forum post/thread that I started to log your results. The more results we get for all different strains the better we will know when were in high brix territory.

High Brix Refractometer Results Log & Data Thread - Post Your Brix Levels Here
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

I'd follow your recipe but I don't think I can find the ingredients where I live.
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

I'd follow your recipe but I don't think I can find the ingredients where I live.

Your best bet would be to buy Docbud's Kit. He is a member here at 420 Mag and the "godfather" of high brix growing here at 420 magazine. All you have to do is buy the promix hp and the rest comes in his kit.

Other than that, the next best thing you could do would be to get a weak acid soil test, find out what's in your soil and go from there.

3rd best thing, if other 2 aren't available is use a 6-5-3 ratio of the above mentioned ingredients, lots of compost teas, and this will get you good results...

other than that...read up on high brix growing...
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

I had a reasonable hard time tracking these items down in a horticultural grade calcium carbonate, soft rock phosphate and gypsum some of these can be found as health supplements in stores & DIY stores such as plaster board !

You can bodge it tho...


I just used bone meal at the end of day as it contains calcium & phosphorus plus used volcanic rock dust,i also live in a hard water area which contains trace amount of calcium in the water supply :thumb:

I'm afraid i'm just not a die hard purist on the matter when others items can work just as well.
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

First a little more info I found on Bone Meal.

Bone Meal

As a fertilizer, the N-P-K (Nitrogen-Phosphorus-Potassium) ratio of bone meal is generally 4-12-0, though some steamed bone meals have N-P-Ks of 1-13-0. Bone meal is also an excellent source of calcium, but does not provide enough nitrogen to be beneficial to plants.[5] [6] Plants can only get phosphorus from bone meal if the soil pH is below 7.0, according to recent Colorado State University research.

Organic fertilizers usually require the use of a variety of fungi in the soil to make the nutrients in the fertilizer bioavailable to the plant. For plants needing phosphorus, the fungi Mycorrhizae, penetrate the root break down the compounds containing the phosphorus for easier absorption and utilization, and in turn the plants supply the mycorrhizae with amino acids and sugars.[7] In sterile potting soil, these fungi may not exist. Without these necessary fungi, which have a mutualistic relationship with the plants, plants could not utilize the needed nutrients in a high enough quantity for growth. Phosphorus, in particular, is needed for cell growth, as well as many other important functions.[1]

While it has been long-believed that adding phosphorus to soils, as an amendment, "stimulates" root growth, in actuality it does not. If phosphorus levels are too high, the plant will not excrete the necessary organic acids that are needed to attract and feed the mycorrhizae. As a result, the plant will increase its root mass in an effort to compensate for the lack mycorrhizae at the expense of other plant tissues. The calcium in bone meal can wreak havoc on plants if too much exists in the soil. Phosphorus can be toxic to some plants, especially those of the Protea family of plants. It can also be toxic to those plants that have adapted to nutrient-poor soils.[2]

Bone meal is frequently used, for the phosphorus, in preparing planting holes for blooming bulbs. The calcium in bone meal may help tomato plants prevent blossom-end rot. However, blossom-end rot can happen even with sufficient calcium present if watering is irregular.

I am sorry I do not have the citations readily available, I will find them if they are wanted/needed.

My thoughts so far, I believe it was Icemud that mentioned, starting from a package deal is best, I agree. I do foresee that some of us, may not be able to go that route, for a number of reasons.

For some, if not all of the same reasons, getting a soil test, may not be an option. I still see a bright light here, it can be assumed that in most cases your soil is deficient in minerals.

In most cases, we do not have an optimum number of fungi and beneficial bacteria in our soil.

It is therefore my intention, to provide an environment where all the minerals, and trace minerals, are available, in reasonable quantity, quality, and optimal feeding type, to be available for plant health.

To do this, it appears, we need to also increase the macrobiotic activity in the soil. In theory, this could be as simple as "seeding" from a sample of good healthy soil (into our new growing medium).

Does any of this make sense?
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

Looks like the info came straight out of the bone meal wiki but the NPK ratio does varie a lot between brands !


Mycorrhizae fungi can be purchased also worm cast contain benifical bacteria 'n' what not, these can be added to your growing medium :Namaste:
 
Re: The need for a "BRIX FAQ" and input for said.

many thanks.

your suggestions would do me well, IF I LIVED IN THE US.

believe it or not, there are cultivators who live elsewhere who simply do not have access to such commercial enterprises.
 
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