Usul's #3: Quest for the Ultimate Closet Grow

[usul]

Hmm, I feel that at 30 days those plants should be at least twice as high...

What are the ppms of your runoff? I still belive that you should flush the plants out good and proper (if they're 5 gal pails, flush them with 15 gal. of water). I think they'll really benefit from the refreshing, especially where before your ppms were up around 1000.

Don't forget growth will slow BEFORE more the more severe "burning" occurs, and I think you've just been riding that fence.

let me know what your thoughts are on this...

Great advice Ultra, +reps when I can! I am indeed riding the fence This reminds me of something I read recently in another journal - one of the GrowLEDHydro folks is growing a single SLH in the same tent I'm using. He was well in to flowering when he decided to feed the plant some sort of "miracle-stuff" and 12 hours later the plant was at death's door. He gave it a gigantic flush, just like you suggest, and the plant recovered just fine - the colas are amazing, especially given that he's using just one 180W LED.

Anyway, if I were in the same position I'd be flushing for sure. But I don't think my situation is nearly as desparate. Just poked my nose in the tent and the look of the plants continues to improve so I'm going to wait a bit. I have reference photos of the previous grow at day 33 veg. When this grow gets there - 2 days from now - I'll take some photos and do a side-by-side comparison. If we're behind then it'll be time to take action. If we're on par or ahead of the curve I'll start adding nutes back in to the mix.

If nothing else, I've learned how valuable it is to have reference photos so I can compare the current grow to an objective benchmark.

More soon!

 

[usul]

Hey there fellow growers - here's a weekend update:

At last, the girls are growing like they mean it! Things have really taken off in the last few days and the plants have never looked better. Here's a shot of the girls at day 33 veg:

They've grown an inch taller in the last three days and although still very compact they are up to 5.5".

It's hard to be objective about growth rates and I always think the plants should be growing taller, wider and faster. So I dug out a photo from my last grow - same strain, also taken on day 33 veg - and fiddled around in Photoshop to get the scale of the two photo as close to the same as I could. Here's how this grow compares to the previous grow at this stage:

Although the first 3 or 4 nodes of this grow are much smaller than last time, the new growth is way ahead. And the secondary/side branches on this grow are 3 or 4 times the size of the previous grow. I know there's still room for improvement but I must say, right now, I am a very happy ganja farmer

The girls were transplanted to the large pots 8 days ago and got just pHed water with Hygrozyme. The soil seems to be plenty hot and is still fairly moist near the bottom of the root zone (reading a 6 or 7 on my Hold All moisture meter - I usually water/feed when it reads between 3 and 5) so I'll resist the temptation to add water and nutes for a few more days.

Just 9 more days of veg then it'll be time to flip the switch and start flowering. I'm using the Fox Farm suppliments this time around and their feeding schedule calls for adding the first suppliment of the trio - Open Sesame - one week before switching to 12/12 so the timing should be just about right.

Things are starting to get interesting

 

[Dabrat]

Nice journal...Plants are looking great and very healthy.Keep it up man...Ill be watching

 

[usul]

Greetings fellow growers. Here's a mid-week update...

It had been 10 days since the plants got any water or nutes and the pots had, at last, dried out enough for a watering. They got no nutrients whatsoever at the last watering, which was when they got transplanted to the large containters. Based on TDS of the runoff I know my soil is rather hot (lots of nutes in there - but who knows what they are) so I went with a quasi half-strength feeding. Each pot only takes half a gallon of water to give me 25% runoff and here's what I mixed into the gallon of distilled water:

7.5ml FF Grow Big
1/4 tsp FF Open Sesame
5ml CalMag+
5ml Hygrozyme
pHed to 6.5 with Potassium Carbonate

TDS of the nute solution was 1500ppm, and I poured it on 24 hours ago. Just poked my nose in the tent and got these shots at day 36 veg:

Growth has been explosive since feeding. Like... KaBOOM! Plant height is up to 7.5" (2" in the last 3 days and most of that in the last 24hrs). That said, I'm starting to see some leaf issues on Uma - the plant that is getting the most light and who's secondary/side branches are the most well developed. Here's what's up:

The tip hook is fairly pronounced and is something she showed me earlier in the grow. The leaf varigation (hard to see in the photo) was also observed previously but is becoming more distinct. Beatrix, on the other hand, is showing no sign of leaf issues. We'd normally think the plant with the most light showing leaf issues is a sign of nute deficiency but, damn, the runoff has a TDS of 2350ppm (!) and a pH of 6.4 (right on). I'm wondering about nute lockout and have purposefully floated the pH down from 7.0 to 6.5 just to vary things a bit and allow all the different micronutrients an opportunity to join the party. I'll float it back up later in the grow for the same reason (this is a great technique for hydro growers but can work for us dirt baggers too). Definitely scratching my head on this one and sure would appreciate any and all thoughts you may have.

Fortunately, the issues are not dramatic and the most important measure - growth rate - is stellar. So, I'm not planning any drastic measures at the moment but will be keeping a close eye on things. If leaf health or growth rate drops off I'll do a big flush, keep measuring the runoff and adjust accordingly.

Anyway, just six more days of veg and I'm getting excited to start flowering. I'm planning to install the ScrOG screen this weekend. The real fun in about to begin

 

[Stealthy1]

Looking good buddy Im not a dirty kinda guy so 2ktds sounds scary to me lol is that normal?

 

[ultrasonic]

Things are looking great usul, but i'm really concerned about that high ppm runoff. You know it won't hurt to flush those things out right? You should at least consider doing it when you switch from veg to flower. You've got pretty high ppms, as well as rather dark looking plants: I'd say they're on the verge of a few more issues. The runoff is just sooooo hot, you know? and it's only gonna get higher.

If your soil has enough drainage, you should be able to flush without having to worry about over-watering.

Cya Sunday aka Harvest day

Did do any dark period/cold period at the end of your last grow? I'm going to do both on my last few hours.


Can't wait to see some buds on those babies You should try working with clones from a mature mother plant: mature plants will produce more buds. Do you wait for your plant to mature, or just veg a set time?

US

 

[Maccar]

Subscribed. Keep up the good work.

 

[usul]

Things are looking great usul, but i'm really concerned about that high ppm runoff. You know it won't hurt to flush those things out right? You should at least consider doing it when you switch from veg to flower. You've got pretty high ppms, as well as rather dark looking plants: I'd say they're on the verge of a few more issues. The runoff is just sooooo hot, you know? and it's only gonna get higher.

If your soil has enough drainage, you should be able to flush without having to worry about over-watering.

Cya Sunday aka Harvest day

Did do any dark period/cold period at the end of your last grow? I'm going to do both on my last few hours.


Can't wait to see some buds on those babies You should try working with clones from a mature mother plant: mature plants will produce more buds. Do you wait for your plant to mature, or just veg a set time?

US

Hey Ultra, thanks for checking in - great minds think alike! The leaf issues mentioned previously have not gotten any worse and the growth rate continues to be strong. Even so, I'm planning a big flush right when I start flowering, just as you suggest. The soil mix is 33% perlite so over watering shouldn't be an issue. This whole issue has got me thinking about using a soil-less medium for my next grow - something completely inert so I have total control over the nute mix.

I wish I could let these plants mature a bit more before flowering but I just don't have time on this grow. Fortunately, these plants stretch like crazy so I should be able to get the screen nicely filled.

I did indeed tweak the plants right before harvesting my last grow - lowered humidity, increased day/night temp spreads and shortened the lights-on period to 10 hours for the last two or three days. Of all those tactics shortening the light period seemed to help the most - it got the trichs going amber right away.

And about cloning, I wish I had the room but there's no place for me to set up a cloning station. Some day I'll get a bigger place and will use this 2x2 tent for growing a mother plant. Everything I'm doing now is all about finding the right strain/technique so I know what I'm doing when I invest in a much larger setup.

Thanks again for your thoughts and happy harvesting bro - tomorrow will be a fun day for you! Looking forward to some great pics on your journal

Subscribed. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for checking in Maccar - I'll be doing my best

 

[Stealthy1]

Hey usul Im doing a hempy bucket grow right now with a clone of my last plant so far I like it allot. last grow I had 2 plants and my giant air pump burnt out(only a month old) which stressed one enough to go full hermie.
If you saw my grow from the beging which I think you did you saw how complicated my setup started out too many part with the pumps sprayers air pumps lol, now I got a light bucket that I can just pick up anytime and move to work on. No moving parts to break I read early on you should water them a few times a day... but honestly the perlite holds enough water for at least a day or two.
Maybe its because I air prune the plants first to get a good root structure before I put them in.
Im also growing six tomato plants in hempy buckets to see how good it works outdoors.

But literally so far I just mix a gallon of nutes at a time now check ph and poor it in much less fussy than DWC for sure and dont have to worry about my organics clumping in the rez, nute temps or mechanical failure.

sorry for the rant....

 

[usul]

Thanks Stealthy - that's not a rant, that's great info! Like most of us, I'm thinking about what I'll upgrade for the next grow and your post makes me think even more about a soil-less grow in hempy buckets.

Your thoughts are very much appreciated!

 

[usul]

These have been some busy days in the garden, and so begins...

Chapter 2: The Cruel Tutelage of Usul

Let's start a couple days ago... based on the ppm of the runoff (it's gotten as high as 2350) it's clear the soil I'm using is way too hot. The plants are still looking good but after a growth spurt following the last feeding growth slowed to almost zero. I was planning to flush before starting to flower and the change in growth rate (the only real measure that matters) got me motivated. Each plant got a flush of (per gallon of 0ppm water):

5ml Hygrozyme
5ml CalMag+
pHed to 7.0

PPM of the flush solution was 200. I measured the very first bits of runoff at 2000ppm. After I'd put 400% of water through the pots (4 gallons total - normal feeding takes just one gallon for 25% runoff) the final runoff was 900ppm. Not perfect, but good progress. Gotta say that dealing with that much water in a small closet inside a smaller tent is a monumental pain in the ass. Gotta figure out a better system for flushing.

After the flush I installed the screen. For this grow I replaced the wood struts I used previously with aluminum struts, pre-drilled with holes every 2". I considered a variety of materials for the screen, from monofilament to the Papa Green approved vinyl clothesline. Having observed many ScrOGs I've come to the conclusion that the material used for the screen really doesn't much matter so I went with natural jute twine. It's Japanese style! Some girls just like it rough

Today, I reset all 5 timers for 12/12 and replaced the 6400K t5s with 3000K tubes. The lights just came on and I snapped the pic shown above. The girls have responded very well to the flush and are starting to push up against the screen (set 8" above the soil). I'll let 'em grow a bit more then training will begin.

So, here were are at Day 1 Flower. The plants are way ahead compared to the last grow and side branching is really taking off. I'm counting on a lot of stretch to fill in the screen and based on the last grow I won't be disappointed. Looks like I'll be a busy task master for the next 4 weeks or so.

 

[Stealthy1]

Looking good... thats why I wont do soil, too much work if youve got no drain.

Too bad you dont have space to clone my plants look like that from seed but my clone of same plant has the side branches all over and close to same height as top. Its that maturity thing again, but what a difference.

are those 3 gal buckets so 400% 12 gal each? sheesh thats allot of water in a closet!
glad the ppms came down for yah. Edit nvm I saw where you said 4 gals total so I assume 1 gal pots...

 

[usul]

Thanks for the support Stealthy! I'm doing my best given the space limitations I'm dealing with. Even so, I like growing in soil much more than hydroponics. Hydro grows are way too fast paced, gadget-laden and disaster prone for my taste. Papa Green's 50 gallon nute flood reminded me again why I don't grow hydro. And your pump failure added to my resolve. No doubt, the results can be very impressive but the anxiety level and attention required just isn't worth it to me.

That said, I'm not happy with my current setup. I'm thinking my next grow will be coco in hempy buckets (I'd love to see what you're up to with your curent grow - do you have a journal going??). Slimm is doing a coco/hempy setup and has not flushed during the entire grow. Sounds good to me.

A few thoughts about flushing... I've read many sources that say a flush should be 3x the container capacity. I disagree. The flush should be based on the water-holding capacity of the medium being used. I'm using 5 gallon buckets. But they are not full, include 33% perlite and have gravel in the bottom. Their water-holding capacity is half a gallon. The same buckets filled to capacity with pure soil would hold 3 or 4 times that much water. Should they get the same flush? No way. So, when I say the girls got a 400% flush I mean they got 4 times their water-holding capacity which, in my case, means they got 2 gallons each. That might not sound like much to you hydro growers but by the time I finished sucking up 3 gallons of runoff with a turkey baster I was a soaking wet sweaty mess. And I can assure you there were a few moments when the air in the tent turned blue from excessive use of harsh language.

Needless to say, I'll be modifying my setup to deal with flushing and a big part of that will be reducing the need to flush.

Of course, I'd love to get a cloning setup going, and that's sure to happen some day. For now, my grows are all about finding the right strain/technique combo. I think it'll take at least two more years to get it all dialed in. When that happens I'll know exactly how to invest in a big upgrade which, most likely, includes buying a new house.

Crazy me.

 

[Stealthy1]

Yah I hear yah on the house... were already planing the things we want are next house to be. and boy is getting to be an expensive dream...

I dont have a current journal up. I might start one again now that my semester is done then again Im lazy hah...

I got an outdoor plant going too well still more like a seedling but its on its way. though I dont think Ill document it at all. something about carrying a camera and doing a photo shoot just doesnt sound stealthy lol.

 

[usul]

We're now at Day 7 Flower - here's a shot of the canopy, such as it is:

Things seem to be coming along fine although, as always, I would have hoped for faster growth. The plants are looking very healthy and I'm starting to see the first signs of flowering: nodes are becoming asymetric, new growth is turning bright green and the girls are very stinky. No signs of sex yet but I don't think it'll be long - probably by the weekend.

I've been trimming off many of the big fan leaves below the screen, most of which are larger than my hand. I've also done a bit of LST on the lower branches trying to get them in to the light. Using the screen to tuck aside the upper fan leaves is helping as well. Must say, however, I'm not seeing nearly as much stretch as I'd like and am not able to do much in the way of ScrOG training yet. There should be about 3 more weeks of stretch left so I'm hoping for the best.

There's been no watering of feeding since the big flush 8 or 9 days ago but the pots are finally drying out and I'm planning to feed the girls when the light comes on tomorrow. They'll get a half strength flowering formula.

 

[Green Utopia]

I think you'll be surprised how many buds you will end up in the screen. It may not fill all the way, but that's not important. The important thing is to get the most out of the plant. Its a great looking screen and I think you'll get great results!

 

[usul]

I think you'll be surprised how many buds you will end up in the screen. It may not fill all the way, but that's not important. The important thing is to get the most out of the plant. Its a great looking screen and I think you'll get great results!

Thanks Papa! It's good to know you're checking in on my grow once in a while. The encouragement is very much appreciated and, coming from you, it means a lot! I've been watching your ScrOG and it's my model for perfection.

Gotta say your advice about how FIMing can slow growth is much appreciated. I didn't FIM this grow and am already counting at least twice the number of potential bud sites on these two plants as I had on the three plants in my previous grow.



Just mixed up a batch of nutes and will feed the girls as soon as the lights come on. They usually give me a big growth spurt right after feeding so I'm hoping for a few busy days ahead.

 

[Stealthy1]

Hey Bro I just started my journal on my hempy grow Check it out.
Northern Lights X Big Bud Hempy Clone Grow

 

[usul]

Weekend update - we're at Day 11 Flower and here's a shot of the canopy:

I fed the girls three days ago with a half-strength flowering formula of (per gallon):

5ml Hygrozyme
5ml CalMag+
5ml FF Tiger Bloom
7.5ml FF Big Bloom
1/4 tsp FF Open Sesame

pHed to 7.0, TDS was 880ppm. Runoff had a low pH of 6.2 and 1260ppm. I'm happy with the ppm numbers and it's fine to let the Ph float around a bit, allowing better uptake of various nutrients, but I'll want to get it higher soon.

Coming to the end of the second week of flowering the plants are finally starting to stretch and I'm able to do a bit of training. Here's a shot of what's going on below the canopy.

The main stalk is very thick, fatter than a #2 pencil, so bending it is a problem. It's hard to see in the photo, but I tied the stalks off to the sides of the ScrOG frame with a bit of twine before bending them in the opposite direction. They're bending nicely now and I'm starting to get the hang of this ScrOG technique. I've also been fairly aggressive about pruning the big fans leaves to allow light penetration below the screen and the plants seem to love it. There's little hope of filling the entire screen but there are a few areas where bud sites are finding their final home and the density is good. Here's a closeup of the best part of the canopy - I call it "The Nest":

Finally, the girls have truly broken through into flowering. Hard to see in the pictures but pistils are emerging all over (girls for sure) and the first signs of frost are starting to appear. Here we go

 

[Wing King 903]

beautiful plants my nigga screen of green looks good too