1st Grow: Indoor Tent, 250W MH/HPS, DWC Hydro, 2'x2' ScrOG

[ultrasonic]

whoops my bad, I thought you had an RO system since you said you were using RO water, but I suppose one can buy that from the store as well

WELL HMM, how are the test subjects preforming? *attempts to detach myself* lol, I gotta stop calling them your babies.

 

[usul]

Hey man, thanks for your support. One of the plants - Sour Cream - is toast. LA Woman seesm to be okay but is very small. I'm not bothering with pictures - it's just too sad...

Anyway, two days after the res change the water is getting cloudy again, pH is jumping up and now the roots are starting to turn brown. Ya know, it just shouldn't be this difficult. It's no big deal because these plants are on their way out, but imagine what it would be like if I was four weeks into flowering and the plants were locked in to the screen - there's no way I could pull things apart and get everything cleaned. I'm seriously considering switching to soil.

 

[ultrasonic]

Well that sucks to hear I consider hydro easier just because it's cleaner I guess. Who do you buy your nutrients from? Are you sure that they are not old? I'm sure you shake them very well before using them? Just checking

Something you're using is contaminated, so I'd work hard to try to figure out what that is before moving on too far.

+rep when I can for your determination!

 

[usul]

Ha Ha! Well, thanks for the encouragement Things are improving a little. My last remaining lab rat - LA Woman - is perking up a little and pH is becoming easier to manage. I upped the H2O2 to more than full strength and it seems to be helping. Now I'm going to double it by applying a full strength dose twice a day. We'll see how the rat likes that - hey, that's what she's here for.

I'm definitely going to start over soon - the new T5 HO flourescent should be here in a couple days so once I get that installed and dialed in I'll shut down this grow, get everything sanitized and have at it again.

I'm shaking the nutes for sure and they look to be fresh - no crystalization or anything (bought 'em from GrowCo Garden Supply). Also thinking of using one of those fancy root booster/res maintenance products like Flora Shield or Dutch Masters Zone or Hygrozyme. If anyone has experience with any of these sorts of products please let me know if you have any recommendations.

I'll post a pic of LA Woman soon now that she's looking more photogenic.

 

[usul]

Well, I don't have much of a grow going but this is certainly turning out to be an interesting science experiment. Just checked the res: the pH is hanging in there and the water is noticably clearer. All those little chunks of white snot have now turned black and sunk to the bottom, pretty sure they were killed by the H2O2. That said, the plant is looking a little stressed. While I seem to have found a level of H2O2 that kills the bateria I may also have found a level that harms the plants. I'll know more in a day or so and will post the results.

Here's a picture of the last remaining plant, LA Woman. That's a 4" net pot for size reference. The plant is nearly 3 weeks old and it looks way too small for its age. It sure does smell good though

 

[zills]

just saw ur journal and was diggin ur setup... sorry to hear about ur mishaps but its all learning. im on my first grow in soil but a b doin a dwc bubbler grow next time around...hope when u get the t5's and start ur new grow all goes great man. u can check out my grow if u want First Grow - Hawgs Kush- Information Appreciated .... keep it growin man

 

[usul]

The Joy of Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2)

Thanks Zills for stopping by, and for the encouragement! Hope springs eternal.

My little lab rat, LA Woman, is loving the H2O2. She got a bit of burn on one of her lower leaves and given that my nutes are very light - 250ppm - and haven't changed in nearly a week I'm pretty sure it's from the H2O2 boost. That's good because it means I may have found the upper limit of how much to add. The res water is looking nice and clear and the pH, while still jumping up a bit, is certainly managable. I am definitely a fan of hydrogen peroxide.

So, for completeness of documentation and for future reference, here's what I've done (all values are in ml/gal):

Moderate treatment
Res change: 6, Daily: 1.5 - this was not effective in preventing bacterial infection.

Maximum treatment
Res change: 11, Daily: 2.5 - this started to make a difference but was not enought to zap an infection once it had established.

Emergency treatment
2.5ml/gal twice a day - this killed the infection in 24 hours and but also stressed the plant. I'd suggest this treatment for 24 to 36 hours (2 - 3 applications) then return to the maximum level of 2.5 once a day.

Of course, time will tell, and I may need to back off further on the H2O2. Using LA Woman as my lab rat is very helpful, but I must admit I'm kind of falling for her... we've been through so much together...

Here she is at 3 weeks old

 

[ultrasonic]

Thanks for that info Usul, I will take it into consideration.

How funnny, you're doing well, and i'm crappin' out lol reverse

She looks like she wants to grow tho... when you starting you new ones?

 

[usul]

Updates

Hey Ultra, thanks as always for stopping by. Funny how things work out - just when it looks hopeless everything turns around.

Here's where I'm at:

The new T5 HO Flourescent fixture is installed and the lab rat loves it. It's a sweet little unit and should work well for getting seedlings from sprout to 2 or 3 weeks old. I'm still working on getting everything tuned up - installing a new light always changes everything. I'm working to find the right balance of which fans are off, which are on, at what speed, and when the humidifiers go on and off. I think I've just about got it figured out. I'll be testing for another 24 hours and if everything looks good I'll be ready for the next grow.

Here's the problem: the longer I take figuring out this new setup the better the lab rat seems to do. Here's a picture showing her three days ago and again today. I've tried to make sure the scale in the pictures is the same so you can get an idea of how much growth has happened in the last three days.

Crazy! Keep in mind that this plant has been through two different bacterial infections and her roots are mostly covered in the black slime that resulted from killing off the last infestation. She's one tough plant. I've been going back and forth about whether or not to pull her out and start over. I could do a big cleaning, wash off her roots and keep going or I could start anew... and I've decided to start anew. I'll probably take a hit time-wise, but this is not a race and I think I'll learn even more by starting over. The knowledge I'll gain will be worth so much more than harvesting a month or two earlier. But, damn, I really hate the idea of killing her....

 

[usul]

The new setup is all dialed in -air temps, res temps and humidity are right where I want them. It was a crazy process, I was using humidifiers and timers and fan speed controllers and in the end it turned out the solution was... a piece of styrofoam. I blocked off one of the cold air intakes, turned off the humidifiers, left the fans on low and that did the trick. Note to self: try the simplest solution first.

A few other things: I found a good source for water; the local alternative grocery has an in-store purifier. It's a seven step process that includes UV serilization and ozone injection. And it's half the price of the bottled water I was using. Cool. Also figured out how to keep the rockwool moist before seedlings put roots into the water: Stack rockwool cubes up from the bottom of the net pot - the bubbles keep the bottom cube wet and capillary action draws the water up.

Finally, I just got a litre of Dutch Master Zone - it's a nutrient conditioner that is supposed to prevent algae, bacteria and fungus from growing in the res. My lab rat just got a dose and we'll see how she likes it. If things still look good tommorrow I'll pull everything apart, sterilize it and set up for the main event.

I'm not sure anyone other than Ultrasonic is still reading this journal but if you are, thanks for hanging in there with me. It's been a learning experience and I hope I've shared some useful information. Even with all the near disasters I now have a plant that is happy, healthy and growing like crazy so that gives me confidence to keep going.

Rockwool is soaking, Red Cherry Berry seeds are out of the fridge and they'll get wet tomorrow evening. Hope springs eternal

 

[ultrasonic]

Glad to hear you're on track! Good idea on the rootzone conditioner, based on your previous issues, it could be a great preventative measure.

And big bonus on that water supply - sounds like what you want.

remember this? "Ya know, it just shouldn't be this difficult. It's no big deal because these plants are on their way out, but imagine what it would be like if I was four weeks into flowering and the plants were locked in to the screen - there's no way I could pull things apart and get everything cleaned. I'm seriously considering switching to soil."

Oh how you've learned I felt the same way and one point, but I had tried soil. I hate it. hate hate hate. soil belongs outdoors . It's dirty I completely agree that soil plants have more flavor, but I always had dirt -everywhere-, and when the bugs came, I said screw it.

About the placement of the rockwool- ideally, you put a small layer (1 layer high) of hydroton at the bottom of the netpot, and place the cube on top. The hydroton will wick the water up into the cube. If you stack cubes, there is potential for them to rot, I would think. They would also take in wayyyy too much water, and be constantly saturated. The hydroton allows just a little bit to get wicked up at a time.

A neat thing I discovered after leaving my hydroton in some water to soak overnight: I covered it with a cloth, and while there wasn't water contacting the cloth at all, just hydroton, the water was wicked up and soaked the cloth. This kindof showed me its ability of carry moisture.

Anyway, hang in the man, and I'd love to see some updates in a day or so

peace

 

[ultrasonic]

bump da bump where ya been usul, I need my updates

 

[usul]

Hey, thanks for checking in - I was just about to post an update. Here's where I'm at:

I whacked the final plant last Wednesday, pulled everything apart and gave it a good scrubbing with bleach and hydrogen peroxide. Man, that res was a mess! Had to install new airstones as the old ones were almost completely clogged with dead bacteria.

At the same time I started three new red cherry berries. They've all germinated and are starting to open up. It's interesting to observe how different strains have different appearances and growth patterns.

I'm now using the new T5 HO Flourescent fixture, fancy new water, quarter strength GH nutes on the Lucas formula, and Dutch Master Zone to ward off infections. All the numbers: temps, humidity, pH, TDS - are looking great... so far so good (he said with fingers crossed)... I'll get some new pics posted once there's a bit more to look at.

Wish me luck!

 

[ultrasonic]

Shizam.

You're locked in the zone. I'm tuned in. Good stuff. We'll be doing smoke reports in no time!

+luck

 

[usul]

Introducing the new arrivals

Time to introduce the new girls; Betty, Wilma and Pebbles. They're from Barney's Farm (think "Flintstones" all you boomers and have had their heads above ground for two days now:

The last set of seeds (Indica) grew straight up, very fast, on thin white stalks. These girls (Indica/Sativa mix) came up on short thick maroon stalks. Very interesting...

 

[Stealthy1]

Hey, good to see something growing in there again setup looks pricey better get your monies worth this time around ;p

My plants went through some tough times but not like that. probly better that you started anew. I started rinsing everything that comes in contact with the water or tools.

I look forward to this one...

I thought about Lucas method but Im using tap water now its pretty hard 83-200 ppm so I just use the GH schedule and epsom salts. its insane how when you finally get it right they grow like weeds... mine grew an inch today!!!

 

[usul]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the support!

Ultra: I forgot to say thanks for the tip on placement of rockwool in the net cups. I followed your advice and it's working out great. Thanks! And, yes, I remember thinking about switching to dirt. Fortunately, that thought didn't last long. Dirt is so... dirty.

Stealthy: I do have a bit of an investment going here don't I... I'm sure it'll pay off sooner or later. No worries, I'm not in a hurry.

Anyway, everything is going great (knock wood). All that fiddling and tuning seems to have paid off - the whole setup is super stable and pretty much on autopilot. I pop my head in a few times a day to look at the plants and numbers and it's all good! Minor pH adjustments once every couple days are about all that's needed. I'm planning to do a res change on Saturday just to keep everything in tip top shape - that'll be the one week mark so I'll get new pics posted then.

 

[Stealthy1]

good yah thats how is for me there doing fine i have to leave em be and find something else to take apart. lol

 

[ultrasonic]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the support!

Ultra: I forgot to say thanks for the tip on placement of rockwool in the net cups. I followed your advice and it's working out great. Thanks! And, yes, I remember thinking about switching to dirt. Fortunately, that thought didn't last long. Dirt is so... dirty.

Stealthy: I do have a bit of an investment going here don't I... I'm sure it'll pay off sooner or later. No worries, I'm not in a hurry.

Anyway, everything is going great (knock wood). All that fiddling and tuning seems to have paid off - the whole setup is super stable and pretty much on autopilot. I pop my head in a few times a day to look at the plants and numbers and it's all good! Minor pH adjustments once every couple days are about all that's needed. I'm planning to do a res change on Saturday just to keep everything in tip top shape - that'll be the one week mark so I'll get new pics posted then.

Good to hear my babes are soaring, but i'm dealing with a bit of a heat issue in the room - think I just have to add in a good oscillating fan to keep the leaf surfaces cool. That 1000w warms my room up like mad, and my kitties treat it like the summer sun

What do you use for circulation in your tent?

 

[usul]

Good to hear

What do you use for circulation in your tent?

For circulation (and cooling) I have a pair of EcoPlus 4.5" axial fans - looks like the same sort of fan you're using to cool your air pump? They're positioned between the plants and the light, angled slightly up at the light. They don't oscillate but in my small tent it's not an issue.

Whatever you use I think your strategy is right on - getting some air moving around will definitely cool things down in the area under the light.