1st Grow: Indoor Tent, 250W MH/HPS, DWC Hydro, 2'x2' ScrOG

[usul]

Greetings all. I've been lurking here in the grow journals for months learning all I can and getting inspired by the many successful results. Now I've taken the plunge, set up my grow room (if you can call it that) and started germinating seeds. Here are the basics:

Strain: DNA Labs LA Confidential, LA Woman and Sour Cream. All are Indica and are the free seeds that came with my order. Figured I'd learn on these. Ultimately, I want to grow Sativas — I have a small cache of Delta 9 Labs Brainstorm Haze chillin' in the fridge.

Setup (see pic): I'm growing in a DarkRoom DR60 tent. It's 2'x2'x 55" tall. Tight quarters, but it's all I have room for.

Lighting: 250W Sunleaves Pulsar 2-way mini. Actually, I'll start the sprouts on T5 fluorescents then switch to the Metal Halide when it looks like they can handle it. When it's time to flower I'll flip the switch, swap the MH bulb with a High Pressure Sodium bulb and have at it.

Ventilation: I've set up the tent in a closet that has access to my home's crawl space. I replaced the crawl space cover with a new one that includes ports for intake and exhaust. I'm pulling air out of the tent through a carbon filter with a 200CFM inline fan. Exhaust ducting runs under the house and exits at one of the foundation vents (must not vent warm moist air directly into the crawlspace). Exterior openings have filters to keep out unwanted guests. Intake is passive, drawing cool air from under the house. Even so, temps under the light are approaching 90F. Temps elsewhere in the tent are much lower so I added a circulation fan inside the tent to mix things up. If heat is still a problem I'll add an intake fan.

Soil or Hydro: I bought a "Deep Water Culture" kit from Stealth Hydro. Seemed like a good idea at the time but after doing more reading here I think I could have done better building something myself. No worries — I'll learn on this then modify it, cannibalize it or chuck it as I get more experience.

Nutrients: General Hydroponics Flora series using their Keep it Simple Drain to Waste feeding schedule.

Number of plants: I'm geminating 3 seeds but plan to grow only 2 plants. The reservoir is 6 gallons and I think two plants is the maximum it will support. If all three sprout I'll pull the scrawniest looking plant before roots hit the water.

ScrOG: Because vertical space is limited I'll set up a screen 12" above the reservoir. I've seen others have great success with this method and it seems worth a try.

Looking forward to your support and feedback.

Here's a picture of my setup in germination mode. Seed have been germinating for 24 hours. Here we go!

 

[ultrasonic]

Well well well!
Let me be the first to comment- you see to have everything pulled together quite nicely. I'll be running a similiar setup in my joural in a couple weeks, except it'll be in a 4x4 tent under 1000w 3kMH bulb, so i'll be sure to keep a close eye on your results!

Again, welcome and good luck! look forward to some more pics.

 

[KrissK70]

Awesome grow tent and kudo's to you for getting the carbon filter and the ventilation spot on!! +reps!!

 

[usul]

Update

Thanks for the support folks! I know it has only been a day since my last post but things are afoot so here's a quick update. First, the current stats:

Days Germinating: 2
Air Temp: 77F
Water Temp: 75F
pH: 5.5
TDS: 0

Okay, I couldn't help myself and took a delicate peek into the rockwool to see how the kids were doing... All three seeds have cracked open and are sending down a root. I thought it'd take 4 or 5 days to see signs of life so I'm happy with the progress.

I put a space heater in the closet with the tent (one of those oil-filled radiator looking things), plugged the intake vents and left the tent door open - it's nice and toasty in there and that's gotta be helping.

I'll add a picture when they break the surface.

 

[Caddie]

Great looking tent setup. Looking forward to following this journal/

 

[usul]

We Have Liftoff

Days Germinating: 4
Days Vegging: 0.5
Air Temp: 79F
RH: 40
Water Temp: 68F
pH: 5.5
TDS: 240ppm

After four days germinating two sprouts are up and the lights are on! The third seedling will have a sprout up by the morning. I mixed up my first batch of nutrients (quarter strength) and felt like a freakin' mad scientist.

Here's a baby pic. Not much to look at, yet...

 

[usul]

Challenges

Days Germinating: 4
Days Vegging: 3
Air Temp: 81F
RH: 50
Water Temp: 72F
pH: 5.5
TDS: 200ppm

Well, one week in to the grow and I have two issues to deal with:

The circulation fan I bought has as an electronic on/off switch which means it won't work with a timer - once turned off it can only be turned on again by manually pushing the button. I've ordered a pair of small axial fans to replace it.

The other challenge is more complicated. A couple days after filling the reservoir it became more and more difficult to maintain pH. I'd adjust it to 5.8 then 3 or 4 hours later it would be up to 7.2. I looked in the res and the water was cloudy. What the hell! Am I growing algae after only two days? I've no idea what was going on but the next step seemed obvious: drain the res, clean it out with a hydrogen peroxide solution and replace the nutes.

I've made three changes and we'll see if they help:

1. Use RO water. On my first try I used tap water. It only had a TDS of 32ppm so I figured it'd be okay, but maybe not.

2. Pulled the top-feed irrigation system. Stealth Hydro recommended running the water pump continuously so there was a constant stream of water running past the rockwool and hydroton then into the res (I rinsed the hydroton 10 times). The net cups seem to get plenty of water from the bubbles and all those wires and tubes were a pain. Deep Water Culture my ass.

3. Light-proofed the res. Stealth Hydro's pretty blue tub was letting in some light so I covered it with foil. What were they thinking...

Even though I cleaned things really well I imagine there will be some residual issues, so a few more drain/clean/fill drills may be in my future.

On the plus side, the plants seem to be doing fine and they're still small so I didn't have an armful of roots to deal with.

Here they are 3 days after breaking ground:

 

[ultrasonic]

Re: Challenges

Days Germinating: 4
Days Vegging: 3
Air Temp: 81F
RH: 50
Water Temp: 72F
pH: 5.5
TDS: 200ppm

Well, one week in to the grow and I have two issues to deal with:

The circulation fan I bought has as an electronic on/off switch which means it won't work with a timer - once turned off it can only be turned on again by manually pushing the button. I've ordered a pair of small axial fans to replace it.

The other challenge is more complicated. A couple days after filling the reservoir it became more and more difficult to maintain pH. I'd adjust it to 5.8 then 3 or 4 hours later it would be up to 7.2. I looked in the res and the water was cloudy. What the hell! Am I growing algae after only two days? I've no idea what was going on but the next step seemed obvious: drain the res, clean it out with a hydrogen peroxide solution and replace the nutes.

I've made three changes and we'll see if they help:

1. Use RO water. On my first try I used tap water. It only had a TDS of 32ppm so I figured it'd be okay, but maybe not.

2. Pulled the top-feed irrigation system. Stealth Hydro recommended running the water pump continuously so there was a constant stream of water running past the rockwool and hydroton then into the res (I rinsed the hydroton 10 times). The net cups seem to get plenty of water from the bubbles and all those wires and tubes were a pain. Deep Water Culture my ass.

3. Light-proofed the res. Stealth Hydro's pretty blue tub was letting in some light so I covered it with foil. What were they thinking...

Even though I cleaned things really well I imagine there will be some residual issues, so a few more drain/clean/fill drills may be in my future.

On the plus side, the plants seem to be doing fine and they're still small so I didn't have an armful of roots to deal with.

Here they are 3 days after breaking ground:

Hey man, I think you said it best earlier regarding the dwc setup you're using. It'll be best for you to start to modify it with a little DIY to customize it to your needs.

Now lets talk about that ph, and i'll share what i've learned. Best thing to use is RO water. When you ph down tap water & RO water, they're going to react differently. Then even more differently when you add different concentrations of nutrients. I read on someones DWC thread once that once the PH hit the upper range (I think they said 6.4) they would adjust it down (5.3). This way, you're not stressing out your plant by constantly changing the ph (which in reality is impossible). This way the plants could uptake their full range of nutrients. This is the philosophy that I use, and so far it works pretty good for me.

Best example I can give is what i'm going through right now with my clones. The water when I started got adjusted down to 5.3.I only add water. Over the last week, it's moved up to 6.2, but has steadied off there. I can ph down it, and it will need , say, 2 drops to lower to 6 but then the next drop lowers it to 5 (for example) Even then, the ph raises over time again. My solution:

Once roots pop, drain the water out of cloner, refill with RO water and 1/4strength nutes. The nutrients have a much better ability to buffer the ph, and by the time they need to get planted into the main system, ph won't be an issue.

good call on tearing that crap off. Top feeders are unnecessary IMO in DWC. Lightproofing hasn't been an issue for me (i have black lids and white bins) it's not dark inside, but I don't get crazy algae. I think this has to do with just keeping my hands clean before I work with anything, and just general cleanliness. Less foreign bacteria in the bin the better.

Well I can't wait for more updates! We're almost going at the same time - I've got clones that should be planted in about a week, so we're pretty close. Peace man, thanks for stickin' by my journal too! Can't wait for a comparison Stoner ingenuity shall prevail!

 

[usul]

Thank you Ultrasonic! Your guidance is appreciated and makes perfect sense. It's RO water for me from here on out and undersanding we all have a challenge playing the pH game provides some comfort.

Looking forward to watching our grows progress.

 

[NorCaliwood]

If your going to buy a R/O system make sure replacement filters and membranes are easy and cheap enough to afford. Well a big differnce between us is I go thru alot alot of water. And most R/O are geared to the peoples drinking water. I've gone thru 2 set of filters in 6 months. And 1 new membrane. Fliters are like 20$ and membrane was 100 give or take a 10. Thread looks good man clean setup. ++

 

[DroJo]

I like the set up, everything looks clean, and you should be on your way soon!

 

[usul]

Challenges, continued...

Days Germinating: 4
Days Vegging: 6
Air Temp: 75F
RH: 40
Water Temp: 68F
pH: 5.2 - 7.2 - it's making me crazy!
TDS: 350ppm

Six days into Veg and I did my second res change this morning. pH had, once again, become uncontrollable. Right after a res change things are fairly managable but after 3 days, at its worst, I'd pH down it to 5.5 (sometimes missing and going as low as 5.2) then an hour later it would be up to 7.0, sometimes going as high as 7.2. Yikes! Again, the only answer was a drain/clean/fill fire drill. While cleaning out the res it seems obvious I'm growing some kind of algae - it's kind of an orange color. Man, oh man, have I been doing a lot of reading and research about pH maintenance and algae control. Here's what I've learned:

1. DWC Hydro can be notoriously tricky when it comes to algae and pH. Eliminating all light in the res and keeping the environment super clean are incredibly important. I'd been wearing gloves most of the time but now I'm downright obsessive about it. I think I'll get a lab coat And I've now double-extra lightproofed the res.

2. Something called "buffering" can be helpful in maintaining a stable pH. From what I can tell, buffering is about adding elements to the nutrient solution in order to achieve the right pH. The idea is that things which impact the water's pH will react with the added elements first and the water's pH will remain stable. Put another way, unaltered water with a pH of, say, 6.0 will be much less stable than the same water that has had agents added to lower its pH then bring it back up to 6.0. This is why water with more nutrients and a higher TDS will be more stable than water with few or no nutes.

So, after cleaning out the res I mixed up new nutes and upped the TDS from 200 to 350. After that I pH downed it to about 4.0 then pH upped it to 5.5. All that additional stuff is supposed to keep things stable. Once everything looked good I refilled the res. That was about 12 hours ago and so far so good. We'll see how it goes...

Two other bits of news: One of the plants, LA Confidential, was a complete runt, hardly growing at all, so I pulled it. Sour Cream and LA Woman are looking good - bright green, even colored, perky. LA Woman even has one small root out the bottom of the net pot. Also, the replacement for my damaged light arrived yesterday. I tested it and it works fine. Now, I'm wondering when I should switch from the 26W HO flourescents I'm using now to the 250W MH. The plants still seem a bit tender, but who knows. Any suggestions?

Here are my two remaining girls, 6 days after breaking ground:

It has been quite a learning experience so far. At least I'm not bored!

 

[lovethestuff]

Looks good dude! I am just a head of you with some of the same plants. One sour cream and one la woman, here is a pic of the sour cream 16 days after germination.

 

[usul]

Damn! Lovethestuff, that's awesome!! Do you have a journal going? I'd love to see your setup, process, etc. I would be shocked, amazed and downright silly if my sour cream looked like yours 10 days from now.

 

[NorCaliwood]

All tha phing is why i decided to put my hydro on hold. I have a same as a water farm going,and the plants are growing like hell but I never have checked the ph of it. I just change out every 5 days or so and top it off with 1/2 strenght nert's. I was going to try the dutch leach thing with rockwool slabs. But I have alot going rite now without taking up a new prodject. GL with the PH prob.

 

[lovethestuff]

They grow fast, don't worry. I thought about doing a journal, not sure yet! second time for me growing hydro, last time was about 10 years ago, mostly soil outdoors for me....600w hps, ebb n flow, fax farm nutes...

 

[ultrasonic]

I was thinking more about your PH issue, and I think alot of it might have to do with your small res. I use rubbermaid roughneck hightop bins, and they hold (oh gosh I can't remember right now...) about 14-18gal of nutrient solution.

6 gallons is very little to work with, and thats probably the source of your issue, along with a possible source of contamination (because of algae). Did you soak your rockwool well in ph balanced water? If you didn't, this is most definately the cause of your ph swing.

Let me know whats been going on, stay safe.

 

[usul]

Situation Improving

Looks like I've found a solution to the pH problem - details below... First, today's stats:

Days Vegging: 8
Air Temp: 77F
RH: 39 - dropping below the minimum - might have to do something about this
Water Temp: 68F
pH: 5.6 - 5.9 - stable with no adjustments needed
TDS: 450ppm - continuing the steady climb to full strength at around 1500

Thanks for the support everyone and thanks for tuning in! I promise not to disappoint and if the last week has been any indication, there should be plenty of drama to come.

Okay, here's the latest: One day after the last res change pH was, again, unmanagable. The water was cloudy with white foam building up around the edges. Research indicated it could either be algae or bacteria. More research shows the only thing that can manage the problem without killing the plants is Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2). I gave the res a well-measured squirt and after about 4 hours I could see improvement, but the enemy still had the upper hand so now that I had a weapon that worked it's all out war!

I pulled the plants and put them aside in a safe place, drained the res and pulled everything out of the tent. Tossed the air stones - there's no way I could get those completely clean. Everything else got a serious scrubbing with strong chlorine solution then another scrub with strong H2O2 solution. Added new air stones and tubing and took the opportunity to upgrade to larger stones and a better pump (the one Stealth Hydro sent is crap). Next, I mixed up a new batch of nutes. Buffered the pH and this time added H2O2. The res will also get a daily dose of H2O2 as well, all on an application schedule I derived from several sources.

The results: I pHed the nutes to 5.6 and after over 24 hours it has climbed to only 5.9 with no adjustment whatsoever! The plants didn't like getting moved around but now they are loving their new home. They look great and are growing noticably faster. I'm not ready to declare victory yet, but if I'm able to keep pH in the zone (5.5 to 6.5) adjusting it no more than once a day and don't have to change the res for a week I will be victorious. If everything works I'll post my H2O2 application schedule along with the pH buffering technique a little later.

What I've learned:

1. I think the infection problem came from using tap water for the first batch of nutes. I've read about some growers having success with this so thought it was worth a try. Bad idea.

2. DWC Hydro in a small space is very challenging. Ultrasonic: your comment about getting a larger res is very wise and I'm sure it would help - I simply don't have the room. Munki also made a comment that temperature control of the DWC res is both critical and difficult, epscpecially in a small tent. As a result, this grow is becoming expensive! Ultrasonic, I think you mentioned you've spent about $2K for your 4x4 setup. I've spent about $1.5K for one quarter the space. There's no way I can go bigger so I'm not complaining, and once I get this all dialed in and optimized it will be a thing of beauty. Miniaturization is never cheap.

Here's the latest pics of the young ladies - 8 days old. Sour Cream has yet to show any roots so I'm a little worried about her but she looks healthy and is growing strong. Roots are sure to show soon.

In our next episode: I'm about to pull the High Output Flourescents and install the 250W Metal Halide. Temperature control will be the next challenge and I'm up for it! Temps under the lights are currently 77F and I'm only using about 10% of my cooling resources - haven't even turned on the big exhaust fan yet. And I have a few aces up my sleeve

Stay tuned...

 

[Caddie]

Great information usal. This is exactly the type of grow I like to follow. Except I'm using soil and 1000 watts. Great info on cleaning out you DWC system. Things should go better from here I hope.

 

[WheeloFortune]

hey usul, looking good. your doin great work with the pics, love the labels!

two things,

in your first post you said you are using a GH run to waste?!?!?!? but DWC is not run to waste! it is most def recirculating, even if you change it often. i would double check your nute schedule and find a recirculating one for your nutes.

also, if money is not a concern, i think you said that before and man what a good thing to be able to say, but if it isnt, most definitely get a chiller. . . it will maintain your res temps to the exact degree which is huge in DWC because temps directly control DO (dissolved oxygen). this is one of the best things you can do to make sure you have a healthy root system, and then everything else will be gravy baby. if you don't have healthy roots, you wont have big buds. . . also lower temps will help control any nasty bacteria, as they dont like it very cold.

right now you say your res temp is 68, if it stays under 70 your good, but i doubt it will when you get the 250 going, and the tent closed.

i'll be around bud, good luck.