Why cut nutes?

[neon green]

That's EXACTLY the point in trying to make Vlad. I use a crazy mix of about 4 different makers and a mix of my own bloom booster. I get it for $14.99 a lb when foxfarm charges $24.99 for 6 oz. I start with full strength when they are able to take nutes, after the fake leaves die. Or I transplant rooted clones then THEY tell me what I need. No robotics, but I've NEVER had to cut my nutes. Just different recipes talor made for THAT particular feeding, say week 4 day 2 of lower or what ever day it is. But THEY tell us what we need. Just mix proper RATIOS and I think many new growers would have FAR less problems, especially those on a budget. Much rep for you sir

 

[Major PITA]

That's EXACTLY the point in trying to make Vlad. I use a crazy mix of about 4 different makers and a mix of my own bloom booster. I get it for $14.99 a lb when foxfarm charges $24.99 for 6 oz. I start with full strength when they are able to take nutes, after the fake leaves die. Or I transplant rooted clones then THEY tell me what I need. No robotics, but I've NEVER had to cut my nutes. Just different recipes talor made for THAT particular feeding, say week 4 day 2 of lower or what ever day it is. But THEY tell us what we need. Just mix proper RATIOS and I think many new growers would have FAR less problems, especially those on a budget. Much rep for you sir

I have no dog in this fight but I don't understand the difference. When you use different recipes tailored to the plants' needs, isn't that the same thing as cutting nute's?
You use more or less of some ingredient(s) depending on what the plant needs. Using bottled nute's you reduce one bottle or add more of another to tailor the feeding to the needs of the grow. Isn't this the same thing?

 

[VladimirPutin]

I have no dog in this fight but I don't understand the difference. When you use different recipes tailored to the plants' needs, isn't that the same thing as cutting nute's?
You use more or less of some ingredient(s) depending on what the plant needs. Using bottled nute's you reduce one bottle or add more of another to tailor the feeding to the needs of the grow. Isn't this the same thing?

The problem is that each macro or micro nutrient is composed of specific compounds that once mixed together in the end feeding solution they must be in a specific ratio of N to P to K and then there's the cal and mag which is very important.

There are so many bottles out there because it is not a good idea to pack all of your ingredients into one container for long term storage. There will be chemical reactions that lead to precipitation which is basically insolubility. Read your labels. Some of this expensive consumer grade stuff contains a mere 1 or 2 ingredients listed.

So to get it right, one merely has to observe the exact nutrient contents on the bottle label and use simple maths to be able to mix one bottle with others.

I have 5 different bottles from 5 different manufacturers. I have found that each bottle has its own unique profile, some have little or no Sulfur, some have healthy proportions of S like 50 ppm.

So far I have not gotten any deficiencies. I'm not going to cry if they do crop up. I am never done learning about feeding a weed. But because I've anticipated the wants of the plant and monitor her everyday, I feel like this will be a non issue.
This ain't no tomato plant

Vlad

 

[Papageno]

There is a lot of science in this and it has nothing to do with cannabis. All plants can be burnt. In fact pretty much everything we need to know about the plant has been scientifically proven scientifically. The only people who argue are the ones who haven't found the data.

People have been farming for a very long time and much is known about all of this. There is a pleathera of books you can find on amazon to read that explain it. Some of these books are hundreds of pages long so you can't summarize it all in a post.


I will however explain why in our case with how we grow the nutrient requirements change as shown in the chart below and then I am out.

Nutrients are not food for plants. Light is food for plants. Photosynthesis converts light into the food the plants need for just about everything. Without nutes plants will grow ...not great but they grow. Without light no amount of nutes will work to grow the plant. (scientific fact).

Nutes in plants are like vitamins in people. We can live on Mcdonalds because all we need is Sugar and some protein and some fats and our bodies know how to make that work. You wont be healthy and you wont live a long happy life but you can do it. If you supplement that diet with lots of healthy stuff to get vitamins and mineral into your diet you can be healthy and strong and alert and all that good stuff.

So light is your Basic Protien, fats and sugar in human terms...and nutes are your Flintstones vitamins.


Specifically Nutes and other minerals are used in a supporting capacity to allow the sugars generated by photosynthesis (and a few other processes) to be used to do things like build cells. (another scientific fact you can buy many books that will explain this to you on amazon).


So understanding that Nutes are not food and only used in a supporting capacity you may start to see why we want to only use very little in the beginning. There is very little photosynthesis happening (scientific fact). With very few leaves they can only generate low amounts of sugar (scientific fact). As more and more leaves are built up more and more photosynthesis is happening... so without supporting that correctly you will build up deficiencies from lack of support. The plant is trying to use the sugars to make stuff but the support is not there and it fails and makes crap. Different nutes and minerals have different mobility so some can be transferred from bottom leaves to the top and the bottoms will show bad signs first if they are deficient. Some are not very mobile so if they don't have enough new growth suffers. Again Scientific fact that there are many books you can buy to read this about.


So now you understand (maybe) why the nute profile is not the same in the beginning vs. the middle or end..but what I haven't explained yet is the root question as to why you don't just blast them the whole time.


Well this is because Plants are very simple chemical machines (a scientific fact). They do not decide what to absorb or how much to absorb (a scientific fact). The roots will come into equilibrium balance with the medium they are in (a scientific fact). They can't choose to be higher or lower concentration any more than a towel can choose how much water to absorb when placed in a bucket. If the bucket has a few drops of water in it and a towel is placed in it then then towel absorbs it all and stays mostly dry. If the bucket is full and you introduce the towel it will be soaked through.

Roots are the same. If you place them in 1500 PPM solution like you recommended to someone who only had a sprout without any fan leaves yet then the tap root will be at a relatively 1500 PPM. (there are a few attributing factors that make it not exactly the same but pretty much the same as the medium it is in)

Then due to Transpiration the water will relocate mobile nutes and minerals up the root and stem into the leaves (a scientific fact). At which point toxic levels of nutrients are in there well beyond the ability of the plant to use ...but the plant cant expel them. Then as the plant continues to transpire, as it needs to, it is forcibly continuing to transport more and more UNneeded nutes up into the leaves.

Then you get things, like the most common one Nitrogen toxicity, which stunts growth and will eventually turn leaves yellow and they will fall off and if left untreated will kill the plants. (scientific facts).

Which looks like this (a scientific fact) and I can point you to many threads on here where people have exactly done this in the past 2 weeks.

Many people just end up with common nute burn which causes burnt tips of leaves which ruins permanently leaves so they can not produce sugars from photosynthesis (a scientific fact) making the plants grow slow.

And since leaves grow once and are done, any damage to them causes reduced vigor and in veg just slows growth but in bloom will reduce quality and yield. (a scientific fact)


Now getting back to the chart. The main reason it drops back down to 0 quickly in the end of the growth is the fan leaves are all shutting down and not being used anymore. The nutes in them are being used by the plant and they are not doing photosynthesis anymore(a scientific fact). So if we don't drop the nutes down over the last 3 or more weeks we end up with toxic levels in the plant which if left unattended will be in there at harvest time causing poor quality and flavor. (a scientific fact)

And to be clear all of this is common basic knowledge and applicable to any and all plants that have a one year cycle and die off in fall. Thousands of books out there explain this based on and backed by science. I recommend you pick up Ed Rosenthal's book on growing cannabis before you go much further. You have posted a lot of stuff that is just flat out wrong in the last few days recommending people to do stuff that will kill their plants. You come across as a cop trying to misinform people (no offense) and need to slow down and read some literature.

No joke...Someone PM'd me today asking me whats up with you. And that is the only reason I replied. I am trying to warn you to slow down and get a few books.

I'm out I am unsubbed

 

[Weaselcracker]

I'm out I am unsubbed

Likewise

 

[VladimirPutin]

Wait...










Vlad

 

[neon green]

Well, what a do you talk to all people that challenge you views like that and run away? You think this is my first grow? I don't rely on others to tell me how to grow. I see all these new growers coming here with all types of crazy issues and you look at what there doing and all you can say is feed half strength with NO RATIONAL, only regurgitated hippy stoner chatter. Not taking anything away from ed but that book is super basic. There isn't ANY advanced books pit there that I've seen. That's what I'm looking for. So if thais is what 420mag is about keep it.

 

[MassMedMan]

I think most of what you hear about half strength is,

1. To new growers - I'll always suggest that, I even take my own medicine when it comes to new strains. Once I know them, I'm all about full strength.

2. To growers in early veg - I'm talking first six weeks.
I like to see a little burnt tip, tells me what my limits are at that time. I don't however, like to burn to the point it slows them down. That's my final answer. Good luck with your quest....

 

[Tead]

I sure like MassMedMan's words.
I ramp my plants up to full strength and beyond. Once you're familiar with a strain, you can really be aware of what she's telling you. Color of new growth is my major indicator. When it gets dark and shiny, I know I'm right at the limit and should back off.
Of course, that's just my garden and my strain using my nutes and my grow style. Your mileage will vary.
I'm currently feeding my flowering plants with 18ml of my bloom nutes (DynaGro)... the published data from the manufacturer indicates 12ml.

 

[Papageno]

LOL...No chicken here. It is a violation of the site rules and etiquette to do what you are doing and be involved with it. Per the rules I am supposed to unsub from threads like this.

You are spewing mass amounts of miss information that will have people kill there plants (not just here you have posted a lot of dangerous info in other threads). All of which is proven wrong in many documented scientific journals.

I have been growing for a long time myself as well and done my research and worked with horticulturalists. I am not here to argue...there is nothing to argue about. The science is proven fact. Anyone on here wanting to debate things is someone who is simply to lazy to go read up on their own. Nothing in this is up for debate. There are some, very few, new things that come out very infrequently but photosynthesis has not changed and you are crying about aspects related to photosynthesis.

If you wanted to discus nicely something like hmm what is a new thing....seriously can't think of anything right now that is so new it hasn't been proven scientifically... But lets say you wanted to discuss a sterile DWC vs. a Living DWC. Then there is something worth talking about. But again that is all proven and the debate isn't about the technique rather you preferred setup. And that is just a personal preference based on available resources and sq. ft.

You have lots of posts out there that are flat out wrong and people are writing me about it asking me what is up with you like I have some sort of control.

I do not argue. I point people in the right direction and they can choose to ignore it and make fools of themselves. There is nothing you are bringing to the conversation. You throw up baseless statements. So what should I do with that but walk away? there is no need to respond to something that is a know false statement. I have nothing to prove and don't care what people think of me. I don't need to argue to explain the world is not flat. If you ask meaningful questions then maybe people would stop asking me why you are trolling here. But we are not paid to do this. We don't need to help you. But you probably shouldn't go around telling people info that will kill their plants. They are newbs that's why they are asking questions.

But again...the only people who think there are issues to debate are people who have no idea what they are talking about. We already understand how plants work. There are different ways to do things and some may be better than other (like using Flood and Drain Vs. DWC) but that doesn't mean better for everyone. So even then when there is scientific data saying one works better that is just for an expert in a perfect situation. But we are talking to newbs working in closets and tents. So we have to help them adjust to their circumstances not force them to do something they can't handle.

 

[Papageno]

And Unsubbing doesn't mean I wont check back to help try and get you straightened out. This thread is not a thread where someone needs immediate help. This is not a thread about a plant issue. We can resolve your issues at any time. There is no need for me to be updated that someone has made a comment here is all.

All we are trying to do is help you. You are a bit misguided so what we can do is we can try to help get you on the right path. Maybe we wont be successful. But like I said previously. Your comments in other threads make you come across as a cop trying to kill peoples grows.