The REAL Truth behind Defoliation

I forgot to mention above, that you should never stress your plant before putting it into flower. Dont remove lower branches below scrogs or take fan leaves within 14 days before flowering.

Some growers will suggest defoliating your plant before putting it into flower. This is another NO NO!! Dont ever listen to such terrible advice as that!!

The truth about defoliation is Defoliation stresses your plant, plain and simple. the more you take off, the more you stress your plant.

If you stress your plant, it has to go into heal mode in order to repair the stress or damage you caused, which will slow down growth and add time to your harvest time.


Think of cannabis plants like professional athletes. Flowering cycle is game day for Cannabis. Professional athletes would never practise the day before game day. I used to play competitive hockey for 15 years and i can say, you never strain yourself before game day. Rest, relax and be prepared and you will perform your best.

The same can be said for Cannabis plants. If you strain the plant right before game day (flower) its going to perform poorly until it recovers. But at this point, you have lost a week or two already and now your 9 week strain has turned into an 11 weeks strain which could possibly ruin your perpetual cycle if thats what you do.

Dont torture your plants! Dont rape them! Give them the best possible conditions with the least amount of stress and your plants will thank you will glorioius harvests!

I given out this same advice to members before almost to the letter. Then the next guy comes along, and I get my ass ripped. It's kinda one of those topics where there's a major divide in opinions. I don't like to argue with people, so I tend to just say something once, and let it go with that. I think I might have gotten a few of those ideas from The Captains journals myself.

That guy that ripped your ass is mad that you didn't tell him the advice before he went and raped his plants!!

If you torture your plants, yes they will come back stronger and bushier.. but at the expense of time.

Time that some people dont have. And if you are a medical vendor, you need your harvests to be on time, cause patients are waiting for medication!

If you have the time, then by all means, beat the hell out of your plants, you will get a crazy big yield, but it will take you FOREVER to finally harvest that bounty!!

in the midst of doing my own raping experiment,lmao

for my own curiosity,my latest cap'n style has been skinned,and I do mean skinned.

ive not seen any slow down yet, Im actually very surprised.

i have no one waiting on the harvest end,all of my "patients" get the product for free,so if a little time is needed,Its worth the experiment..

I am not sold either way,just need something different to experiment with.

Great discussion; Here are my unorganized thoughts!

My opinion is undecided. I think for some grows it may work well and for others it isn't worth it..... Just throwing my thoughts out there.

If defoliation increases yield but also stalls the plant.... Couldn't the same increased yield be achieved by just vegetating longer?

- I personally think the answer for most people here would be NO. Why? Space is usually a limiting factor.... If you need more yield, have some extra time to veg, AND you are limited by space, then defoliation might be your answer. This will definitely add a couple weeks to your veg. time.

If your plant is still in Veg. And has had deficiencies causing some ugly/sick leaves would removing these ugly leaves be a good idea?

- As long as you've solved the deficiency/nutrient issue and have the time to allow the plant to recover to grow new leaves. Having the sick leaves replaced with healthy leaves could benefit the plant; Why flower a plant with sick looking leaves? Pluck them off and give her a chance to recover/grow some new ones so you can go into flowering with a healthier and greener plant. If you've been following the Capn's grow blogs and applying his advice you should rarely run into deficiencies! Some plants are just picky though.

- Its just my opinion here but I think plants probably produce more leaves then they actually need to grow at optimum rates; It's probably ok to remove the odd out of place leaf here and there without stalling the plant.

- If your in a situation where you have one plant that is larger then the other and you need them to be the same size. Defoliating the larger plant could be the solution. Requirements would be having a healthy root system, not minding how ugly they look when first defoliated, and you have the extra time to allow the larger plant to recover/let the smaller plant catch up in size.

- Defoliating causes the plant to grow thicker and also more branches, but stunts the plants growth. Do thicker branches mean bigger buds? One would think so. But heck I don't know.

- Defoliating will reduce the humidity in your grow room.

- Defoliating reduces the chances of mold by allowing more space between leaves.

- Defoliating allows you to have a great look at how the plant is branching and makes organizing the branches under a scrog much easier.

- If a defoliated plant is mis-treated or ends up getting something wrong with it..... It may be hard to spot until it's too late! The leaves are our first indicator of the plant health.

- Defoliating specific areas of a plant could be a good technique to control the shape that a plant grows in. For example if you don't want those outer branches to keep stretching and would prefer the middle of the plant to grow straight up, would it be a good idea to maybe defoliate those branches? Perhaps topping them is better....

Sorry for the random thoughts and slightly unorganized post.

I was begining to think there was alot of stupid people on the forum. Finaly one who gets it. I believe most defoliators just have to be doing somthing to their plants or their not happy.

Hey Shanker!

This is why i posted this blog, so we could get the discussion going!

>>If defoliation increases yield but also stalls the plant, Couldn't the same increased yield be achieved by just vegetating longer?

You answered your question right there, and basically the whole myth to defoliation giving you bigger harvests.

When we veg a plant for longer periods of time, we increase our yields. The longer, the bigger (usually). If you go and purchase some beans and they are 9 or 10 week strains, you want them to finish in the time advertised, right? So when we stress our plant, we add on more time, whether in veg or in flower. With enough stress, you can add weeks on in flower, while you are still in veg! Stress to a plant during flower is even worse.

For people who want to grow perpetually, and have no downtime between harvests, you want your plants to be finishing on time. If you add on veg time cause you were beating the hell out of your plant, you will put your schedule off by a week or more by adding that recovery time

>>If your plant is still in Veg. And has had deficiencies causing some ugly/sick leaves would removing these ugly leaves be a good idea?

Thats your own call, but plants cannibalize their dying leaves of stored nutrients. Thats why you see them dying off. No one lets their plant continue to grow with deficiencies, and will be corrected eventually.
Once a plant is done with the leaf, it simply falls off. You can coax it off early if you're a stickler for that sorta thing. Remember that leaves affected by nutrient deficiencies usually dont ever recover, but they can be useful to the plant until the leaves are dead and the plant sheds them naturally.

>>> If you've been following the Capn's grow blogs and applying his advice you should rarely run into deficiencies! Some plants are just picky though.

I converse with TheCapn every day, and because of his advice (including this on defoliation!) i dont see deficiencies or lock outs. This blog post was prompted by a conversation with TheCapn about some "advice that i would respectfully not take or agree in" by KJC in regards to defoliating my GF's (LadyGreenthum) plants.

It comes back to vegetative growth, and how long you veg your plant for. Many many growers dont wait 8-10 weeks to put a plant into flower. But they should, their yields would increase.

The plants we are not defoliating are growing so bushy. They are drinking up so much water its crazy. This is because the plant has many leaves to photosynthesize with. The more photosynthesis, the more water and nutrient uptake and the quicker your plant will grow. The lower branches that were once being shaded by huge fan leaves, are now even with the canopy. These will no longer stretch for light, and now grow thick to support big buds.

>>> Its just my opinion here but I think plants probably produce more leaves then they actually need to grow at optimum rates; It's probably ok to remove the odd out of place leaf here and there without stalling the plant.

Plants cant grow enough leaves! Like i just said, the more leaves your plant has, the more photosynthesis that will be taking place. More water and nutrient uptake, faster vegetative growth.

Plants definitely do grow more leaves during certain phases of their life. Thats why you see a plant getting really bushy in vegetative state, cause its preparing to grow like crazy when put into flower! Not only does a plant need the energy to grow vertical, it needs to be able to create the energy to grow those tasty buds we all want, thats why they grow so many leaves during veg.

While youre correct that removing the odd leaf wont stunt the plants too much, no leaf is out of place! They all have a purpose. Theres no reason to remove that leaf that "looks out of place" what is the reason? Cause it looks out of place?
This comes down to what Outdoormaster said after your post about people just needing to do something to their plants all the time.

Just leave that poor little leaf alone you bully!! its doing nothing but good things without you really knowing! Lol

It might not be creating energy by absorbing light energy, but it is storing energy in the form of carbs and sugars for the plant to use later during flowering.

>>> If your in a situation where you have one plant that is larger then the other and you need them to be the same size. Defoliating the larger plant could be the solution.

There are many other solutions that are better than putting stress on your plant. You could tie down the plant that is larger, which will distribute auxins to other nodes and make them grow vertical.

While the one plant is tied down (which should lower the canopy of the larger plant) your smaller plant can play catch up.

Another solution, that causes slightly a bit more stress but not enough to actually stall plant growth, is you can "tip" the plant. Not top it, where you take any amount of the top of a branch off. I'm talking about taking only the terminal shoot of the tallest branches. Again, this will distribute auxins to the lower nodes, and have them growing vertical

>>> Defoliating causes the plant to grow thicker and also more branches

I have to disagree on this. If your plant is growing vigorously, you have a huge amount of solar panels (leaves) that are fueling the process of photosynthesis, which in turn makes your plant grow faster. A faster growing plant will mean more branches in less time.

When you remove the leaves that block branches, you dont allow those branches to get as much vertical growth as they need. Eventually they will get shaded over again by the main canopy an then they will never amount to nothing and eventually be trimmed away.

If you want to promote more branching on your plant, defoliation is not the answer. Topping is the answer.

This distributes auxins to the rest of the plant, which in turn signals the plant to start branching. The more you top, the more the lower branches receive higher amounts of auxins and grow vertical. This is how an even canopy is achieved without a SCROG net

>>> Do thicker branches mean bigger buds? One would think so. But heck I don't know.

This is strain dependent. I had huge thick stems and branches on some White widow plants i had in my grow box, but the buds werent very big (they were sure dense tho!)

>>> Defoliating will reduce the humidity in your grow room.

I agree with this. This is because your plants will transpire less. But this is at the expense of being able to grow faster. Less leaves = less growth

>>> Defoliating reduces the chances of mold by allowing more space between leaves

I guess so. But why would we want more space between leaves? This means your plant is looking stretchy, and not receiving enough light.

The best way to reduce the chance of mould, is to have proper air flow in your growing space

>>> Defoliating allows you to have a great look at how the plant is branching and makes organizing the branches under a scrog much easier.

Why cant you look at your plants the way they are? Why does removing leaves have to happen in order to see how your plant is growing? You can see how its growing by looking at it right? If you cant, you probably ( or who ever) most likely has too many plants too close together.

>> "Makes organizing under a scrog much easier"

Tucking branches through scrog holes isn't very tough to begin with, especially if you keep up on it. When branches get too stretchy and lanky to bend back under the net, thats when it gets tricky. but as long as you keep tucking before the plant stretches, you shouldn't have any issues putting plants under SCROG nets because of leaves being in the way or whatever the reason is to take them off. Maybe scrog holes are too small if you need to take leaves off to get it through the scrog??

>>> If a defoliated plant is mis-treated or ends up getting something wrong with it..... It may be hard to spot until it's too late! The leaves are our first indicator of the plant health.

I agree, this is why i'm trying to tell people how important it is to leave your leaves on the plant! if you have no leaves to spot if you are experiencing a nutrient lock out, your plant could seriously be harmed if its too late by the time you figure out theres something wrong.

>>> Defoliating specific areas of a plant could be a good technique to control the shape that a plant grows in

Topping and bending would be a better solution that causes much less stress to your plant.

Also a SCROG would be an even better solution.

>>> For example if you don't want those outer branches to keep stretching and would prefer the middle of the plant to grow straight up, would it be a good idea to maybe defoliate those branches?

The outside of the plant, where those branches are, aren't getting enough light, thats why they are stretching to catch up to the canopy.

If you want to grow a plant with one main cola, that will easily grow vertical and run out of head space, then let the middle grow upwards. You will have a christmas tree shaped plant.

Yes topping is the best choice. If you top and bend and top and bend, you will grow a plant that has multiple colas that will have an even canopy and grow multiple huge buds!

>>> I was begining to think there was alot of stupid people on the forum. Finaly one who gets it. I believe most defoliators just have to be doing somthing to their plants or their not happy

Thanks Outdoormaster. There are definitely a lot of misguided people here who have been told a lot of bad stoner advice.

I couldn't agree more. Some people just cant leave their plants alone! they wanna do this to it and that to it.. snip this and tie that and bend this and that. If people didn't always have the need to touch and prod and play with their plants, i could guarantee that 80% of growers would have harvests that come down in the time the breeder says so!


For example. I have a huge White Widow plant that i vegged for 6 months. She wasn't tortured, or defoliated in any way. Wednesday the 22 marks day 56 since i changed the light schedule to 12/12, and the plant is ready to chop and bag. Exactly 8 weeks with about 10-15% amber trichomes. I will run her 3 more days before starting a minimum 7 day flush. I could have started the flush 5 days ago and chopped today tho, and had it ready in 8 weeks on the dot!

All because i left the plant alone. I didn't fuck with it.. i didn't pluck a ton of leaves off in one sitting, i took the shitty branches off that would amount to nothing early in flower and had to start tying up the colas about a month ago they were falling over already!


Dont believe the myths you hear about defoliation! While some of the stuff sounds nice all it does is stress the plant and stall growth rates. Just tie down a branch here and there, tuck a fan leaf out of the way during flower because buds that dont get light, dont ripen up properly. But if you can leave the leaf on and just move it, do it!

Greenthumb J;bt10638 said:

>>> Defoliating allows you to have a great look at how the plant is branching and makes organizing the branches under a scrog much easier.

Why cant you look at your plants the way they are?

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That one made me chuckle. Thanks for the reply G.T.

There is definitely a lot of varying opinions out there on this. Cool topic.

I was begining to think there was alot of stupid people on the forum. Finaly one who gets it. I believe most defoliators just have to be doing somthing to their plants or their not happy.

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really?? because you choose not to,people are stupid?? hahahahaha,its called learning,discovery
after 30 years of dropping beans,I still learn/experiment,its the only thing that keeps me going.

good discussion greenthumb J.

To be honest,my quest in trying it on one plant this round,I would like to get rid of my "trash"leaves as I go,ON my last harvest of 6 plants I ended up with 12lbs of trim in the freezer,it is good for edibles and wax,but I also get burned with the same weight,not worth it.I can make edibles and wax from bud.

I do know what shanker65 is saying,about seeing the plant,after all this time,Ive finally seen the plant
in a way that im not use too.

im usually a zero training guy,I love the ability to spin a plant,and inspect,Ive only got about 12 screens under my belt for this reason,I hate tucking and pulling.but Ive seen the yield difference,so I use it.

ive learned over the last 18 months to take the cap'ns advice as gospel,but sometimes we have to make a mistake or 2 along the way,on our own to learn.

c526;bt10641 said:

really?? because you choose not to,people are stupid?? hahahahaha,its called learning,discovery
after 30 years of dropping beans,I still learn/experiment,its the only thing that keeps me going.

good discussion greenthumb J.

To be honest,my quest in trying it on one plant this round,I would like to get rid of my "trash"leaves as I go,ON my last harvest of 6 plants I ended up with 12lbs of trim in the freezer,it is good for edibles and wax,but I also get burned with the same weight,not worth it.I can make edibles and wax from bud.

I do know what shanker65 is saying,about seeing the plant,after all this time,Ive finally seen the plant
in a way that im not use too.

im usually a zero training guy,I love the ability to spin a plant,and inspect,Ive only got about 12 screens under my belt for this reason,I hate tucking and pulling.but Ive seen the yield difference,so I use it.

ive learned over the last 18 months to take the cap'ns advice as gospel,but sometimes we have to make a mistake or 2 along the way,on our own to learn.

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30 years your a rookie. Got 10 years on you I guess you might catch up some day... Glad your still learning

great we got weed master supreme with us hahahahahha

glad after all this time you are done learning,I never will be that's for certain.I have zero trouble trying thoughts and therory. Its why after all this time i moved from soil to water growing.IF i was done learning I would still be putting out shabby 5 zip plants.

new thoughts and theroys led me to the Cap'n system.

>>> really?? because you choose not to,people are stupid.

I dont think people are stupid. They are simply misguided. The belief that defoliation causes your plant to grow more doesn't make sense at all.

think about it. Without leaves, your plant would never grow. Try it when you pop some beans.. pluck all your leaves off, and leave only the nodes.. Watch how Slow (if at all) your plant will grow.

A plant needs more than healthy roots in order to grow. If the plant is absorbing no light energy, then photosythesis doesn't occur efficiently, and the plant stretches and gets lanky looking for light energy.

>>>I still learn/experiment,its the only thing that keeps me going.

Thats awesome! You should learn something new everyday! I know i do. Experimentation is the key to learning. Without trying something, we would never know why something works or doesn't work.

This is what my blog post is all about. i have tried defoliation early in veg, it stalls my plant out. Instead of a 2 month veg time, its more like 3 with all the recovery, and by the time its ready for flower. An extra month like that messes up my perpetual schedule and i cant afford to be messing up my schedule.

I've tried defoliation in flower, and that was a mistake. It caused one my plants to turn hermaphroditic and then pollinated a couple other plants. Stress in flower = NO NO!!

Stress in flower ALWAYS adds a week to your flowering time. NO matter what you do. You have to supercrop your plant cause its getting too tall? Add a week to flower.

Just defoliated a bunch of leaves from your plant in flower? you just added a week, possibly 2 onto flower. Keep an eye for pollen sacs as well!!

its in our best interest to give our plants the most stress free life we can. Plants go on to produce ther harvest as fast as the breeders state. Remember, when a breeder comes up with a period of time for flowering, they aren't beating the hell out of their plants, they aren't pulling leaves off during veg. They are providing the most perfect conditions they can for their plants.
Breeders know the importance of the leaves. Watch GreenHouse Seed Co. Grow videos on their strains. They dont defoliate at all until its harvest time!

>>> I would like to get rid of my "trash"leaves

Throw them in the trash then? Thats where useless leave go anyways. If it has no trichomes on the leaf, its useless basically. Unless you juice the leaves to make tinctures, but even then, i would still use the sugar leaves for more potent tinctures and concentrates.

When i harvest, i have 3 containers. 1 for buds, 1 for sugar leaves that i will make hash or dry ice kief with, and a garbage can for the stems and leaves with no frosting on them. The garbage can gets bagged up and tossed into the garbage compactor in my apartment building. Never store product in the freezer as the freezing cold degrades THC like you would never believe!

>>> I do know what shanker65 is saying,about seeing the plant,after all this time,Ive finally seen the plant in a way that im not use too.

You see it without leaves and in severe heal mode? Great, tell me how long it takes for that plant to recover. Put it side by side with a plant that you DONT defoliate.. watch the plant that doesn't get raped grow twice as fast.

If you need to see a plant without leaves, thats weird. We all know what a stem looks like right? we all know what a branch looks like. I really dont understand why we need to see a plant stripped of its solar panels. this makes no sense to me.

>>> ive learned over the last 18 months to take the cap'ns advice as gospel,but sometimes we have to make a mistake or 2 along the way,on our own to learn

Chances are, you've made enough mistakes already, thats why you're reading into TheCapn's blogs and articles. I know i cant afford to make mistakes. I cant afford fungus gnat outbreaks in soil. I cant afford plants stalling out cause of nutrient lock outs and such. I run all automated systems here in my apartment.

Everything gets watered multiple times a day thanks to drip systems.

TheCapn's style is about making your life easier. Growing the best possible product with the least amount of effort using the least amount of plants and space required.

Capn-style is basically set it and forget it. Put your plant on a drip ring and thats it.. check your PH and PPM daily like he does and change reservoir once every 7 days. As long as you stick to the nutrient recipe thats best for your plants you are growing, you wont run into any problems except "what am i going to do with all this bud?"

>>> 30 years your a rookie. Got 10 years on you I guess you might catch up some day... Glad your still learning

I'll still be learning about growing till the day i die! Theres so much information about plants and chemical reactions in the root zone, pests and deficiencies to overcome, training techniques... theres simply too much information out there.. with new information being discovered each day in the field of horticulture!

My guess is, if you grow indoors, you're still an old-schooler stuck in the dirt. dust yourself off and take a dip into hydroponics. So much easier. No dirt to mix up and cook. No dirt all over the place when you transplant. no heavy bags of fertilizer to cart around. No pests like you see in soil.. Just water everyday and watch your plants grow faster than you could ever imagine!

>>> great we got weed master supreme with us

I dont see TheCapn anywhere here?? lol!

>>> I would still be putting out shabby 5 zip plants.

Hey bud, theres nothing wrong with 5 zips a plant of great smoke! 4 plants and you've got yourself over 1Lb dried! thats a lot of smoke!

Honestly tho, Capn-style simple hydroponics has been the second easiest method of growing i have used so far, behind DWC.

For me DWC is the easiest!. Fill a bucket, add nutrients, add an airstone, put plant into bucket.. done. Add beneficial tea once to twice a week. Never see a root issue, even with high water temps and no need to transplant up container sizes either!

My next endeavor is going to be a massive RDWC system with plants growing in 27gal containers!! These are going to be BEASTS!! i'm expecting 1-2 lbs dried per RDWC container. I will have 2 in my system. Thats 2-4lbs dried each harvest! Thats the goal i have set for myself

shanker65;bt10640 said:

That one made me chuckle. Thanks for the reply G.T.

There is definitely a lot of varying opinions out there on this. Cool topic.

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Its true tho!.. i have 16 plants stuffed into 2x 2'x4' flood tables sitting under a 4ft 4-bulb T5HO fixture and the plants that are shading each other are suffering. They need more space for their leaves to absorb the light.

Like you said, its hard to see the whole of the plant when they are this stuffed together!

Let me take a quick pic for you guys!



I've rotated the plants so that the taller ones are on the outside, not receiving as much light, and have the shorter ones that need some light energy in the middle (A couple in the picture are smaller cause they are in smaller containers!!)

But as you can see in the picture, its really hard for me to investigate the plants in the middle because of the amount of foliage in the way.

If i were to start having deficiencies (which i dont ever see on drip systems like i have in the picture) it would be too late by the time i noticed the leaves on the top becoming affected.

The plant would have suffered its damage and then need to go into heal mode once the problem was corrected.

This is a perfect example of what a veg area should not look like!! Too many plants stuffed into an area with not enough light coverage

In 2 weeks i will be getting another T5HO fixture like the one in the pictures, cause this thing is awesome!! In the last picture you can see how close i have the T5's to the plants.. this is the perfect height for this lamp

in the above pictures.. defoliation is not the answer!

If i were to start removing leaves, those particular plants would grow slightly slower, and i dont want that! i want them to grow fast and vigorous. Not all the plants are the same age as well. Some will go into flower before others, some will stick behind to get a longer veg period.

The key is to have enough light for your plants.. Too many plants and not enough light, and your plants will become stretchy and lanky. Node spacing will be crazy, and your plant might not be able to support itself during flower.

Hi Guys

Does ANYBODY had measure yields ??? I Think is better check yield numbers than talk about advices !!!

Please talk with yields !!!!!

If you have the time, then by all means, beat the hell out of your plants, you will get a crazy big yield, but it will take you FOREVER to finally harvest that bounty!!

^^^^^^^That is the best bit that you wrote .
forever = . + - 3-5 days in my case.
i think i have maxed out the dry zips one can achieve in the space and ease i grow in.
until i see different. i will keep searching. happydays.

Hey C526; How did your experiment end up going?

Good to see ya round shanker65

it is still on going,its in the last couple of weeks,I will try another to better document what has happened,I have not had it turn Hermie,and the slow down that I had anticipated,did not happen,It was naked for a week then got 70's pron star bushy,and turned into a jungle,because I got lazy.

im an finishing up https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/final-grow-box-capn-style-welcome-aboard.234453/