18 month old seeds

[Rhizome]

Hi, folks.

I have 3 blueberry auto and 3 sticky beast auto seeds. As I mentioned in the title, unfortunately they are a bit old (purchased 18 months ago). During this time, they remained in the room conditions (in seller's transparent tubes, 20-25 °C). 3 days ago I put one of them (sticky) in a small pot (potting mix) and sprayed it for germination. She still hasn't sprouted. I have had successful attempts with soil and paper before, but I am not very experienced. I want to be careful as there are very few seeds.

I hope with all my heart that they are not dead. If this seed doesn't sprout, should i try another method next time? What would you recommend?

Thank you for any help you can offer.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

18 months isn't too old for seeds. The storage environment could've been better, but I have had 2 year old seeds stored in similar conditions sprout.
Give the seed more time and make sure to keep the soil moist. The seed needs to absorb enough water to break dormancy and sprout. Just don't drown it!
Warm temps will also help. Try to keep it a bit above 22C or warmer.

 

[Southerncough]

Should be fine

 

[Rhizome]

18 months isn't too old for seeds. The storage environment could've been better, but I have had 2 year old seeds stored in similar conditions sprout.
Give the seed more time and make sure to keep the soil moist. The seed needs to absorb enough water to break dormancy and sprout. Just don't drown it!
Warm temps will also help. Try to keep it a bit above 22C or warmer.

Thank you very much, you put me at ease. Now about 21 °C, I'll try to raise it a bit more. I want to move to Grow Journals as soon as possible.

 

[Roy Growin]

No problem with the age of the seed
Chances are your medium is a few degrees colder than the 20-25C ambient temp
A heat mat to raise the temp of the soil may trigger some action, the soil wants to be a constant 23-25C
If nothing happens in the next few days, I'd gently poke around see if there is a shoot below the surface and expose it if there is - it's very easy to plant a seed just a tad too deep and slow it down (as you can tell, I've done it all too often lol)
*edit* Sorry MH, comment overlap

 

[Rhizome]

No problem with the age of the seed
Chances are your medium is a few degrees colder than the 20-25C ambient temp
A heat mat to raise the temp of the soil may trigger some action, the soil wants to be a constant 23-25C
If nothing happens in the next few days, I'd gently poke around see if there is a shoot below the surface and expose it if there is - it's very easy to plant a seed just a tad too deep and slow it down (as you can tell, I've done it all too often lol)
*edit* Sorry MH, comment overlap

She has been next to the heater for two days (~24 °C). Half an hour ago I poked around with a stick, it's very close to the surface and there is no shoot. I don't know if I should try another seed. Or the paper towel method?

 

[Roy Growin]

next to a heater is no bleedin' good mate, it needs to be 23C in the root zone

 

[Sativa1970]

I have grown 35 year old seeds I stashed and forgot about. Keep them moist, warm and don't disturb them. They will be slower to get going so be patient. I got 75% of those old seeds to pop but it took a week in paper towels. Another 2 weeks before they were 1 inch tall in soil. After they had there true leaves they took off. Little extra patience and they will be fine.

 

[Jaz]

This method has worked for me many times, the seeds split withing 24 hours in most cases.
Not sure if I can post the link but here's the blurb:
-
Seeds germinate when a small white rootlet emerges. Water, heat and air (oxygen) are all that cannabis seeds need to break dormancy and germinate. Fertilizer, “special” hormones and “secret” additives are not necessary, and are a waste of time and money. Mother Nature provides seeds with a stored food supply to usher them through germination. Strong, viable seeds germinate in two to seven days. At germination, the seed’s protective shell splits and a tiny white rootlet (tap root) pops out.

Cannabis Seed Germination: Step-by-Step​

Step One: For best results, soak seeds for 12-24 hours in a glass of clean water. At first, seeds will often float on the surface. They should sink to the bottom of the container after a few minutes. Soaking ensures that water penetrates the protective shell to activate growth hormones. Avoid soaking seeds in excess of 24 hours. This causes them to suffer oxygen deprivation and drown, prompting seeds to rot.

Step Two: Carefully remove seeds from the container of water. I like to pour water and seeds onto two to four paper towels that are contained by a saucer or plate. Once they are in place, cover the seeds by folding the towels to cover them.

Step Three: Tip the plate at an angle so that all excess water drains freely away. The paper towels should be evenly moist, with no standing water on the plate.

Step Four: Place the seeds in a warm, shady-to-dark location. The ideal temperature range is 21°C to 26°C (70°F to 80°F in the old scale) for fastest germination. Make sure seeds are covered and in the dark. Another variation is to set the paper towels on a grate so -that excess water drains away freely. The grate also allows for plenty of air (oxygen) circulation.

Step Five: Touch the towels to check the moisture level two to three times a day. You may need to add water once or twice during the day depending on ambient room humidity and temperature. Keep the towels evenly moist. NEVER let the towels and seeds dry out.

DO NOT let seeds sit in standing water. Excess water must drain away freely. The paper towels are able to retain sufficient moisture to prompt germination in 36 to 96 hours. Of course, some seeds may germinate sooner, and others will take longer, especially older and weaker seeds.

If mold is a concern, take prophylactic measures; add a mild organic fungicide or 2 percent mix of bleach to irrigation water. To get the 2 percent solution, use 2 fluid ounces bleach in 98 ounces water (or 1 ounce bleach in 49 ounces water.)

j

 

[SmokeLake]

She has been next to the heater for two days (~24 °C). Half an hour ago I poked around with a stick, it's very close to the surface and there is no shoot. I don't know if I should try another seed. Or the paper towel method?

Hello
Temp is important Im not sure of the exact temp but the top on my refrigerator seems to be perfect for wet paper towel method I also place a second plate on top it eliminates any temp fluctuations and the bit of pressure ensures good contact between the damp towel and seed and minimizes evaporation.
Happy 420!!

 

[Sativa1970]

23 to 27 deg is where you want them. Jasp is correct. that is the ideal germination technique. I would definitely recommend this next time. Since you had already started with soil you do not want to disturb them. They are vary delicate during germination. That little white hair is the plants tap root that holds just enough nutrient to get the plant to its first leaves.

 

[SmokingWings]

That little white hair is the plants tap root that holds just enough nutrient to get the plant to its first leaves.

All the nutrients are stored in the two round leaves that show up first. Each of those little leaves (cotyledons) was inside the seed. When the seed gets moist and stays moist for several hours then hormones are released. The two halves swell up and more hormones will cause the tap root, which was there all along in the dry seed, to push through.

The tap root tends to follow gravity and grows downward. While doing that it also pushes the two cotyledons in the opposite direction. The plant is depending on the stored nutrients in the two cotyledons to support the growth of a root system, the stem above and below the soil surface, and then the first two true leaves. At the same time the two cotyledons must get light for photosynthesis to start becoming part of the growing process.

Anything happens to the tap root in the first several days then the plant dies. Anything happens to the stem at this point and the plant dies. Anything happens to the first two true leaves right after they show and the plant dies. Once the first true leaves are growing and and another set has started to show, the plant can suffer a bit of damage. The more nodes the more damage that the plant can handle.

The cotyledons, a short piece of the stem and the tap root are all there inside the seed waiting.. These seed parts can be seen by taking apart a larger seed like a bean or squash. They are all hard, like something made out of a piece of wood, and it is fascinating how once the seed gets the right amount of water they soften up and come to life.

 

[Sativa1970]

All the nutrients are stored in the two round leaves that show up first. Each of those little leaves (cotyledons) was inside the seed. When the seed gets moist and stays moist for several hours then hormones are released. The two halves swell up and more hormones will cause the tap root, which was there all along in the dry seed, to push through.

The tap root tends to follow gravity and grows downward. While doing that it also pushes the two cotyledons in the opposite direction. The plant is depending on the stored nutrients in the two cotyledons to support the growth of a root system, the stem above and below the soil surface, and then the first two true leaves. At the same time the two cotyledons must get light for photosynthesis to start becoming part of the growing process.

Anything happens to the tap root in the first several days then the plant dies. Anything happens to the stem at this point and the plant dies. Anything happens to the first two true leaves right after they show and the plant dies. Once the first true leaves are growing and and another set has started to show, the plant can suffer a bit of damage. The more nodes the more damage that the plant can handle.

The cotyledons, a short piece of the stem and the tap root are all there inside the seed waiting.. These seed parts can be seen by taking apart a larger seed like a bean or squash. They are all hard, like something made out of a piece of wood, and it is fascinating how once the seed gets the right amount of water they soften up and come to life.

Wings you are correct. I was distracted and worded that wrong, thankyou. The embryonic leaves are the seeds food stores. I was trying (and failing) at saying the the root is vary delicate and damaging it will interfere with uptake . As you sad. Damage it and it dies.

Point was if your seed is in soil, leave it there. do not dig it up thinking you could help it.
That was 5 interruptions and a half hour to type this.

 

[Jaz]

the top on my refrigerator seems to be perfect for wet paper towel method I also place a second plate on top it eliminates any temp fluctuations

The type of fridge you have may affect humidity and dry them out so check the tissue regularly.

The old style fridges with the radiator exchanging heat at the rear will dry out the air, we used to put our sodden shoes behind the fridge at night and they'd be nice and dry in the morning. The new fridges don't have that heat exchanger at the back.

The tap root tends to follow gravity and grows downward. While doing that it also pushes the two cotyledons in the opposite direction

Actually it will emerge upward from where the seed splits, in most cases the root then arches and goes downward.

When the root is @5mm long, plant the seed @ 6mm deep with the crown, where the casing splits, facing upward. That curl in the root is beneficial, the root gets stronger as it tries to flip the leaves the right way around, pushing the cotyledons out of their casing and through the soil above. Ideally the seed casing is removed underground not above ground, ensuring a strong healthy seedling.

j

 

[Melville Hobbes]

The second image on that is wrong. I've planted seeds point down and they've never done that.

 

[Roy Growin]

When I sow a tray of seeds I don't take any notice of which way up they are, any more than nature does and the idea that a seed might fail because it is upside-down is beyond my comprehension
Just sayin

 

[Jaz]

I've planted seeds point down and they've never done that.

I don't take any notice of which way up they are, any more than nature does and the idea that a seed might fail because it is upside-down is beyond my comprehension

By all means, feel free to grow them how you like. You may want to do the experiment and plant some pointed end up, some pointed end down and take note of which ones grow to be the healthiest.

I'm just passing on info from growers, perhaps botanists, etc. that've done the research.

Yes, nature is indeed random, 'survival of the fittest', etc. A plant sheds many seeds each season, some seeds will be better quality than others, they will land in many different orientations but only a few if any, will grow to be strong healthy seedlings then they'll fight each other for nutrients. Usually the strongest survives to be the replacement of the parent unless it's interfered with by say, an animal consuming it, etc.

If you want to drop 100 seeds onto the soil surface in a pot, the way nature intended and watch which ones sprout into seedlings and then watch which one of them will succeed to be the victor, place bets, etc. - feel free to do that, I won't stop you.

... all in the name of research.



j

 

[Melville Hobbes]

By all means, feel free to grow them how you like. You may want to do the experiment and plant some pointed end up, some pointed end down and see which ones grow to be the healthiest.

I'm just passing on info from botanists, etc. that've done the research.

Yes, nature is indeed random, 'survival of the fittest', etc. A plant sheds many seeds each season, some seeds will be better quality than others, they will land in many different orientations but only a few if any, will grow to be strong healthy seedlings then they'll fight each other for nutrients with usually the strongest surviving to be the replacement of the parent.

If you want to drop 100 seeds onto a surface of a pot, the way nature intended and watch which ones sprout into seedlings and then watch which one of them will succeed to be the victor, place bets, etc. - feel free to do that, I won't stop you... all in the name of research.



j

I've never found where that image came from. Could you link the original source?
Be interested to see what research they did to come to that conclusion.

 

[Jaz]

I've never found where that image came from. Could you link the original source?

Not sure myself, it goes back many years, I've seen it shared around in many growers forums, including this one.

From the style of drawing, it looks like it may've originated in a book, someone posted it online and it's been shared multiple times since.

I have to add, since I started using this method, each seedling emerges without seed casings, prior to doing it this way, I'd often have a casing hanging onto a leaf or both leaves emerge closed, still partly encased in the seed casing.

j

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Not sure myself, it goes back many years, I've seen it shared around in many growers forums, including this one.

From the style of drawing, it looks like it may've originated in a book, someone posted it online and it's been shared multiple times since.

I have to add, since I started using this method, each seedling emerges without seed casings, prior to doing it this way, I'd often have a casing hanging onto a leaf or both leaves emerge closed, still partly encased in the seed casing.

j

Ahh. You mentioned botanists and research so I thought you had an original source. This reminds me of that chart that claimed you could determine the sex of seeds from their shape. Never did seem to stand up to real world testing, but it's still floating around too.