39% extraction yield RSO

[CajunCelt]

Thanx Jack.
I used an indica/cbd mix of 2:1
The indica was Master Kush.

Sativa & sativa Dom's actually seemed to aggravate it.

I'm glad you checked out the Colorado adventure. The panel I was on putting on the medical seminar was an awesome experience. In vanity, I cut out my bio that said MMJ industry expert, but my wife quickly brought me back. Lol. She was there when I was acting like a 5 year old girl I was so nervous.

 

[Jack Dabs]

Haha I can believe it, love that you didnt prepare any notes and spoke from the heart. The fact that you could stand up there for 30 mins means you are an expert. Sounds like your journey has taught you plenty to deserve that title even if you were a little star struck. What an experience and hope you get invited back in the future.

That makes sense, thanks, I think i have a bit too many 50/50 hybrids and definitely have one sativa dominant in my current batch. It's making me reassess my shortlist.I defintely want to try the blue dream for daytime use but I think I will replace the trainwreck with a high cbd indica dominant and see how that goes. Have my eye on medi bomb 1 from bomb seeds which should make a nice pain oil especially if mixed with the blue blood. Tried the naturally decarbed oil yesterday, it's a month short of being ready, both myself and my bro found some decent lasting pain relief, so much so that we decided to have a BBQ and enjoyed it but by the time it wore off it was clear that I had overdone things. Still KO'ed me though and had a good 12 hour sleep (I never sleep for 12 hours).

 

[Lab Rat]

Last weekend was CannaCosta down here, the first latin american conference on hemp and medicinal cannabis. I was a VIP at the conference and got to talk briefly at a Q&A. It was very interesting and I got to meet a lot of people including Dr. David Bearman, Dr. Cristina Sanchez, etc. aswell as patients like Stefanie LaRue and Jason Lauve (Mr.Hemp).

I spent most of my time talking to Stewart Smith from Aunt Zelda's; he's their extractions specialist. He saw what I was doing, saw my videos and gave me feedback. He said that my methodology was good and I was getting above average results than the rest of the population but that I needed to winterize twice. Also by doing a hot extraction I was pulling too much chlorophyll and plant waxes.

He does a long (24 hours) sub cero (20*F) wash and then after he squeezes his bud to get the last drop out he has that material analyzed. He says that 95% of the time there is nothing left as far as THC and CBD. He also decarbs twice, once the material and once the oil for maximum decarb and finally instead of growing a 2:1 or 3:1 they just grow a high THC and high CBD strain separately and play with the ratios.

I'm retiring this method from all oral versions of the medication and will only use for strictly topical applications and will only be doing 2 washes to try to minimize the chlorophyll pickup.

When I do this new method I will film it and start a thread.

 

[Jack Dabs]

Damn Lab Rat that sounds amazing and am looking so forward to seeing your vids. You must have learned plenty speaking to those folks.

With the sub zero extraction does that in theory mean that we could just add the alcohol and leave it in the freezer for a day or does it have to be a very specific temperature?

That would simplify things a lot,and can even just take it out the freezer and run it through coffee filters to purify it. The double decarb is interesting, wonder what the reasoning is behind that?

Thank you for sharing this info so freely and going through the effort of making videos, it really is appreciated.

 

[Lab Rat]

They use very precise lab equipment but he says a regular freezer is fine but the colder the better. My moms freezer takes things down to 20*F (-5*C) and he said that works fine.

This is a verbatim account of what he said; after years of testing what works and what doesn't here's what he said. Quickly its like this, stick your ethanol in the freezer, reduce the humidity of the bud by cooking at low temp (<200*F) for 10-20 minutes, freeze the bud (24 hours), grind the bud in a blender, freeze the bud (24 hours), decarb at 230*F for 1 hour, freeze the bud (24 hours), mix with the alcohol, leave in the freezer for 24 hours, filter through a metal strainer, leave in the freezer for an additional 24 hours, filter through coffee filters (1st winterize). Extraction complete.

Evaporate the alcohol at as low a temperature as possible, at around 25% of starting volume stop and stick in the freezer for 48 hours, re-filter once more with coffee filter (2nd winterizing).

Let me check my notes but I find it more time consuming and complicated.

 

[Mariamlu]

Lab Rat, I am proud of you! (if you do not mind). I don't have answers myself, only questions.
So it takes seven points/eight days. What if you are not available each following day and it stays in the freezer longer in any stage?

1. Stick your ethanol in the freezer. Reduce the humidity of the bud by cooking at low temp (<200*F) for 10-20 minutes, freeze the bud (24 hours).
2. Grind the bud in a blender, freeze the bud (24 hours).
3. Decarb at 230*F for 1 hour, freeze the bud (24 hours).
4. Mix with the alcohol, leave in the freezer for 24 hours.
5. Filter through a metal strainer, leave in the freezer for an additional 24 hours.
6. Filter through coffee filters (1st winterize). Extraction complete.
Evaporate the alcohol at as low a temperature as possible,
At around 25% of starting volume stop and stick in the freezer for 48 hours.
7. Re-filter once more with coffee filter (2nd winterizing).

 

[Lab Rat]

Apparently nothing, your bud/alcohol will just hit a temperature and stay there. A large meat freezer were the entire operation could be done at sub-cero temps would be best or for you guys higher up north in wintertime. Just wait till I do it once, this method is unconfirmed.

 

[CajunCelt]

I wish you could get it tested. I'm real concerned about the double decarb.

 

[Lab Rat]

There no such thing as tested here as its quite illegal still. The double decarb seems to counter the data on the chart but they have a lab analysis and I don't plus I'm told the chart is quite old.

It still seems like a lot of heat.

 

[CajunCelt]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. He sounds like abho guy. His method is great for dabs. I would bet a new light that it's not very medicinal.
His method has been used since at least 2012 for CO2 & hexane extracts.

 

[Lab Rat]

Its Stuart Smith, co-founder of Aunt Zelda. They're not into it to get high.

»Aunt Zelda - About

 

[Jack Dabs]

Agree with you both about the heat being a concern but pulling all or most of the cannabinoids does dound really good.

Is it not an overly complicated method? End of the day its basically doing a prolonged cold extraction. Sitting for 24 hours at room temp will pull a lot of undesirables into the medicine but considering winterisation eliminating some of the plant waxes, perhaps the 24 hour cold wash does sound like it's definitely worth a try even if the standard decarb procdure is followed after extraction.

Also something to consider is what is the saturation point of the alcohol, I would imagine we would need some specifics as to how much alcohol to use per ounce of bud.

for myself personally (and many others in western Europe) it would be great as it could???? mean that no iso is neccessary and I could just do a 95% polish vodka extraction which is otherwise not possible at $50+ for half a litre after duties are paid.

Thanks again for your research and testing Lab Rat.

 

[Lab Rat]

Actually the ethanol he uses is what I try to use myself, a 99.9% medical grade ethanol. Its imported and costs about $50 US a gallon in Costa Rica.

 

[Jack Dabs]

The only thing I can get here is 99.9% iso (not denatured) which is pretty cheap and heavily taxed 95% polish vodka which is far too expensive to use liberally.

Do you agree that the 24 hour cold soak is worth a try?

I was speaking to a woman on a forum on natural decarb oil and she was saying that she tried a 24 hour soak (room temperature) just as an experiment and she found that the oil was very anxiety and paranoia inducing as well as upsetting the stomach, no surprise there but wonder what caused the racy/paranoia/anxiety?

 

[CajunCelt]

The only thing I can get here is 99.9% iso (not denatured) which is pretty cheap and heavily taxed 95% polish vodka which is far too expensive to use liberally.

Do you agree that the 24 hour cold soak is worth a try?

I was speaking to a woman on a forum on natural decarb oil and she was saying that she tried a 24 hour soak (room temperature) just as an experiment and she found that the oil was very anxiety and paranoia inducing as well as upsetting the stomach, no surprise there but wonder what caused the racy/paranoia/anxiety?

A strong sativa strain...

 

[Lab Rat]

The strain causes the different effects, not the extraction method. A longer soak or a reflux extraction will pull more chlorophyll which will make it taste stronger and potentially be a bit harder on more sensitive stomachs.

A consistently cold extraction will help not release any chlorophyll.

Denatured alchol should not be used at all.

 

[Jack Dabs]

Yeah understand all of that. I do like the idea of doing a 24 hour wash without pulling the chlorophyll and am happy to take one for the team and try it out. Thereafter I recon just do winterisation and the normal decarb and see the difference.

I was going to use an ounce but with an untried method I recon 10 grams should be sufficient to gauge. Also considering it's so little I will use my polish vodka. Yes I wouldnt use denatured alcohol, I dont even like that I have to use iso in the first place.

What you guys recon is the right amount of alcohol for 10 grams? I was thinking 150-200ml?

 

[Lab Rat]

With this new extraction method I do not know, it was 1.25 liters per ounce with my old one and I did 4 hot washes. 1250/4 = 312.5 ml

312/3=104 so theoretically 150ml should be fine but I never do extractions with anything less than half an ounce, also this new method yields a lot less.

 

[Jack Dabs]

Thanks Lab Rat I will give it a go with 10 grams and hopefully sometime next week use your heat extraction method and use probably an ounce maybe two.

150 mls it is then.

I will let you guys know how it goes. Planning on doing a 24 hour soak and then I have a one of those jars where you can screw the lid over a coffee filter so wil leave it in the freezer for winterising and just let it slowly strain through under cold temps. take it out evaporate and do an oil bath for decarb.

 

[Jack Dabs]

Just a rather sombre update:

Did all of the above mentioned, had oil in an oil bath, got called away urgently for about 90 seconds and the whole lot overflowed into the cooking oil, genuinely managed to save about 2mls of oil which I cant decarb anyway. So bummed - such a screw up. Sorry I screwed up this experiment guys. May try it again but need oil desperately so going to do the heat extraction next.

Anyone know what to do with canna infused cooking oil??? Goddammit I am so cross with myself.