480W & 720W LED Grow - Land of Clovers

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

I spoke with them yesterday about an issue with an order I placed and I asked him if they sold any teas. He said not yet but they were in the process. He told me he would try to put some together for me but now that you think there might be a problem with it I'll wait to use it till I see how your girls finish.

that question is a very debated question and you will get 50 different answers and one big flam war.lol. always ends up a fight. i will give you what i do and think.
1st ive seen some very busy plants that blocked light and the buds were popcorn buds, so if i have a very dense foliage i remove what is blocking my buds. if a leave is 50% damaged i remove it. if its a lower branch thats not getting light i remove it and put the energy up top. now i always try to tuck my leaves then cut them or at least cut the leave down until its not blocking any more. if the leave is healthy and not blocking something then leave it alone. thats my thinking on that subject. at the end u will get a ton of different answers, just go by what works for you, thats how i do it when it comes to leaves

Hey sorry IB to ask you qs in the middle of your diary, but they wont let me PM you. What are the rules as far as leaf removal? Some say they remove up to havest. And some say stop when you switch to 12/12, or they will herm on you. Who do I believe?

hemivette I have never heard that removing leaves after the 12/12 flip will cause a plant to hermi. However, any kind of intense stress can cause confusion and sexual variations. Best to treat the ladies with respect and use sharp implements to clip them. Also, try not to wait and trim a lot on one day, but do a little bit every day. Any old, dying, or light blocking leaves should get removed to help your plants focus on the new growth and flower production

Nice little set of additives you've got there. They should work very nicely.

When you said the NPK thing, it got me thinking about how much I've been giving to my Hempy Buckets, using Coco as the medium. I decided to go through and add up all the NPK from all the additives to see what I was at. Here is what I came up with using some quick math:

2 weeks into Flower NPK: 30-25-25 (with Liquid Kool Bloom)

8 weeks into Flower NPK: 22-55-43 (with dry Kool Bloom, will use this NPK until I flush out before harvest)

This includes the CRF's I've been using since they were clones. I thought it might be of some interest.

Can't wait to see how these Space Queen's do!

remember that synthetic nutes are different then organic NPK, only around 15% are used by the plants when dealing with synthetics from what ive read.

 

[Nine Leafer]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

remember that synthetic nutes are different then organic NPK, only around 15% are used by the plants when dealing with synthetics from what ive read.

Oh really? Thanks, I hadn't heard that and that seems to be very important to understand they only use a fraction of the synth ferts. That means I might be able to pump them more!!!

NPK Week 2 30-25-25 @ 15% = 4.5-3.75-3.75
NPK Week 7 22-55-43 @ 15% = 3.3-8.25-6.45

Good to know Irish!

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Oh really? Thanks, I hadn't heard that and that seems to be very important to understand they only use a fraction of the synth ferts. That means I might be able to pump them more!!!

NPK Week 2 30-25-25 @ 15% = 4.5-3.75-3.75
NPK Week 7 22-55-43 @ 15% = 3.3-8.25-6.45

Good to know Irish!

cannabis dosent eat allot and this is why people kill their plants with kindness. the nute company's want use to buy more so they have use use more. its sometime best to feed, water, feed, water. humic acid to help break down all the salts. if you feed too much and keep doing it the salts will build up and cause big issues. when ur PPMs are going up in the medium each feeding and thats why. when the run off is 20% higher then the set ppm then u know when to flush, but feed, water, feed, water.ect.. is best IMO.

one other thing is always better to use the recommended dosage but deluited with water then to cut back the nites. because you also cut back on the Micro nutes with lower dosages.

now this is what ive read about the 15% and been told but i dont know 100% for sure

 

[Nine Leafer]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Yeah those salts could get you in big trouble, that's what I liked about the drain-to-waste program using hempys. Keeps the salts manageable. I started at 1/4 of the recommend dosage and slowly went up, never using more then recommended. Worked for me so far.

 

[Dexter4Morgan]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

who makes good humic acid ?

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

who makes good humic acid ?

AgeOld, or BioAg

 

[Nine Leafer]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Found this on The BioAg website, on their FAQ section:


Why are there so many variances in product analysis and concentration claims?
Currently there is no industry standard for procedural analysis of humic and fulvic acids. Therefore suppliers use different test methods, which ultimately yield different results. Many tests lack thorough quantitative analysis, so often suppliers play the test game to see which one will yield the highest results so they can play the concentration game. The same substance sent to different labs will come back with a variety of numbers, depending on the labs methods. As an example, by the Verplogh and Brandvold method Ful-Power fulvic measures 8%. By the Classical Method the same fulvic measures .015%. It's noteworthy that when measuring for fulvic acid many tests include the weight of the chemical salts, leftover from the extraction method. As we do not use any chemicals to extract our fulvic the analysis we receive is actual. Additionally we are proud members of the International Humic Substance Society (IHSS) and support their recommended method, the Classical Method. The IHSS wishes to standardize industry procedures with a thorough analytical method, so as to alleviate consumer confusion and create an even playing field. However, thorough testing often results in lower numbers as salts and other substances are accounted for. With standardization many companies would loose their place in the market as numbers would reveal the truth of concentration. For many companies confusion has helped them maintain business. Please beware of anyone claiming unreasonable concentrations of liquid fulvic acid. While near impossible a 90% fulvic acid will be thicker than cold molasses and you would only need a pin head as a dose.

 

[molotov]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

who makes good humic acid ?

I found this product and wonder if anyone has use it. It seems to be the best of both worlds. Humic acid and kelp extract sounds good to me.

Nature's Magic is a blend of two of the best soil activators and plant health products in the world: Humic Acid (often called liquid humus) and Seaweed (kelp). It serves three major functions that result in better soil and plant health:

1. It helps detoxify and buffer chemicals and salts that prevent bioactivity in the soil.
2. It helps generate the soil-improving microbes necessary for good soil structure, bioactivity and plant health.
3. It provides numerous plant trace nutrients and biostimulants.

The Humic Acid in Nature's Magic is a full 17% solution, the highest level we know of. If you check other liquid humic acid products, you'll find they won't exceed 12% strength.

Here are just some of the many benefits of Nature's Magic.

* Bioactivates both clay and sandy soils and increases Organic Matter
* Buffers harsh chemical salts or chlorides found in many commercial fertilizers
* Provides carbon which feeds beneficial soil microbes
* Improves soil structure and aeration * see important note below
* Stimulates root growth and supports most plant functions
* Unlocks and chelates major and minor nutrients. Reduces fertilizer needs.
* Improves plant's ability to capture (fix) atmospheric nitrogen
* Prevents Thatch buildup and helps stimulate the decomposition of existing Thatch
* Increases earthworm activity
* Makes iron and other nutrients more available in poor pH soils
* Improves plant resistance to disease, insects and other stress
* Supplies over 30 micro-nutrients and vitamins
* Increases nutrient density in pasture grasses and silage
* Works as a catalyst for both soil regeneration and plant growth
* Contains 58.2% Humic Acid and 41.8% Seaweed




Nature's Magic is a unique and extraordinary product, made from time-tested organic ingredients. It neutralizes toxins and conditions in the soil that hinder biolife, and then it promotes the growth of the good microbes that will build soil structure and humus. Using a proprietary process, our Humic Acid is turned into a 40% stronger solution than the typical Humic Acids sold elsewhere. One gallon of our Humic Acid is equivalent to 7 tons of manure in terms of soil bioactivation. We also use a superior grade Seaweed - Ascophylum Nodosum, grown and harvested off the coast of Norway. We also add some Blackstrap Molasses as an energy source for biolife. We believe this is the best soil activator on the market.

Energized Plant Food. It is remarkable to note that the same two ingredients (Kelp and Humic Acid) that bioactivate soils so well, are also two of the best plant health foods there are. There is no better natural micronutrient source (for both plants as well as animals) than Kelp. It contains the vast array of health enhancing trace elements that could only come from the sea. It also contains natural plant growth hormones such as Gibberellic Acid that help all growth phases of plants, including sprouting of seeds.

Humic Acid promotes deeper rooting, multiplies nutrient uptake and unlocks nutrients normally tied up in the soil. It also energizes plants like no other material on earth. You will quickly find that plants treated with our Nature's Magic are much healthier and vibrant. Food and animal crops become more nutrient dense. It is no wonder that pasture animals will seek out and thrive on fields treated with Nature's Magic.


Important note:



Using Nature's Magic


Houseplants/Greenhouse/Hydroponics

Nature's Magic is an excellent, non-burning plant fertilizer that can also be used on houseplants, in greenhouses and in hydroponic systems. You may find that it brings about rooting, top growth and blooms that you've never experienced before.

Apply at 1/2 teaspoon per 1 quart of water every 1-2 weeks. Put in a drop or two of Aerify occasionally for even more dramatic results.

Hope I didn't break any rules by posting this.

 

[Nine Leafer]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

At the end of the day, if you aren't using Humic Acid go grab some. If you are trying to find who has the highest percentage of Humic Acids and are comparing brands that say 7% and another says 12%, you are comparing apples to oranges unless you know exactly how each company specifically tested it's product for Humic levels. They is no standard to test Humic Acid in the U.S. so companies send out their recipes to many different testing centers and print the highest percentage outcome they can get on their product labels. In hopes you get confused and buy their product.

So, if you don't use Humic Acid now, just go grab a brand you are comfortable with and use it. It will make a difference in your medium.

Why are there so many variances in product analysis and concentration claims?
Currently there is no industry standard for procedural analysis of humic and fulvic acids. Therefore suppliers use different test methods, which ultimately yield different results. Many tests lack thorough quantitative analysis, so often suppliers play the test game to see which one will yield the highest results so they can play the concentration game. The same substance sent to different labs will come back with a variety of numbers, depending on the labs methods. As an example, by the Verplogh and Brandvold method Ful-Power fulvic measures 8%. By the Classical Method the same fulvic measures .015%. It's noteworthy that when measuring for fulvic acid many tests include the weight of the chemical salts, leftover from the extraction method.

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

i just grab whatever cheap and a respected company. mine says 6% and is made by optium hydroponix witch makes great nutes. bottom line is it was local and cost me $10. humic acid and humus go hand to hand. seaweed is always great, just like earth work castings. its all good stuff when you do ur homework. nature is king if using the right organics you can unleash the beast.

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Humus
In soil applications, humus is believed to influence fertility by helping the soil retain more water. It is well established that humic substances increase the germination capacity of seed and the vitamin content of plants. Humic acids and their derivatives increase the permeability of plant membranes promoting nutrient uptake.

Many researchers have observed a positive effect of humic substances on the growth of various types of micro organisms. They suggested iron found in Humic acids or their colloidal nature is responsible for the positive effect of micro organisms.

Some believe that Humic acids entering the plant at early stages of development are a supplementary source of polyphenols, which function as respiratory catalysts, resulting in an increase in the living activity of the plant: enzyme systems are intensified, cell division is accelerated, root systems show greater development and, ultimately, the yield of dry matter increases.

Fulvic Acid
Fulvic acid are organic acids that occurs naturally in decomposing organic material called Humus. Fulvic acid are the only part of humus to be soluble in alkaline, acid and neutral media. Fulvic acid improves the structure of soil, retaining moisture, aeration of the root and provide plant with nutrients including nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium, magnesium, sulfur and micro nutrients.

Fulvic acid also contributes to the conversion of minerals from non-assimilable to soluble form by releasing carbonic gas. It also have a positive effect on the growth and development of crops because of increased extraction of macro/primary and micro nutrients. Fulvic acid increase soil fertility, improve soil structure and have a bio stimulant effect.

Mycorrhizal fungi spores
Mycorrhizal Fungi colonize the roots of plants and extend the root system into the surrounding soil. By attaching to the feeder roots, Mycorrhizal Fungi greatly extend the effective absorbing area available to plants. Research demonstrates that mycorrhizal filaments can explore volumes of soil hundreds to thousands of times greater than roots themselves.

Crops enjoys improved nutrient and water uptake with the presence of Mycorrhizal Fungi. It contributes to disease resistance and increased survival and growth rate. Additionally, Mycorrhizal Fungi increase leaf size, flowers and vegetable yields.

Soluble seaweed extract
For centuries, agricultural areas close to the littoral zone, an area ideal for the growth of seaweed such as the Brown Algae - Ascophyllum nodosum (also referred to as Norwegian Kelp) have been used as a good source of organic matter for various soil types. It was used to grow a number of fruits and vegetables.

With technological advancements, Seaweed is available as an extract and can be found in a power or liquid form and is suitable for hydroponics applications. Soluble seaweed extract is derived from pure kelp and is widely recognized as an effective natural plant fertilizer. It is believed to enhance seed germination success rate, promote a healthy root system, help plant become more disease resistant and help provide rapid root development. Soluble seaweed extract can be used in both soil and hydroponics applications. It also provides over 60 assorted chelated nutrients and growth enhancers, which are readily consumed by plants.

This article courtesy of Hydroponics, Gardening, Greenhouse, Agriculture, Horticulture, Aquaculture

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Organics, A Growing Market - Humic and Fulvic Acid
By Luis Bartolo, Maximum Yield Magazine

In this issue we are going to talk about humic and fulvic acid and the role they play in the organic and horticultural market. Nowadays both humic and fulvic acids are being used by a lot of growers (organic as well as hydro growers) for their benefits. We hope you will enjoy this article and derive the necessary useful information from it.

Historic background of humic acids

What is Humic acid?
Humic acid is that fraction of humic substances that is not soluble in water under acid condition (below pH 2) but soluble at a greater pH. It is the collective name for the acid radical found in humic matter.

Liquid humic acid is a suspension, based on potassium-humates, which can be applied successfully in many areas of plant production as a plant growth stimulant and soil conditioner. The origin: through extraction the potassium humates are isolated from leanardite and are dissolved in water. This produces an aqueous suspension with a high content of humic acids, potassium, iron and a large number of trace elements ready for uptake by plants.

The Role of Humic Acids
Horticultural/Organic growers have recognized the value of regular additions of organic matter to the soil since prehistoric times. However, the chemistry and function of the organic matter has been a subject of controversy since men began their postulating about it in the I8th century. Until the time of Liebig, it was supposed that humus was used directly by plants, but after Liebig, it shows plant growth depends upon inorganic compounds. Many soil scientists hold the view that organic matter is useful for fertility only as it is broken down with the release of its constituent nutrient elements into inorganic forms.

At the present time most soil scientists hold a more moderate view and at least recognize that humus influences soil fertility through its effect on the water-holding capacity of the soil. Also, since plants have been shown to absorb and translocate the complex organic molecules of systemic insecticides, they can no longer discredit the idea that plants may be able to absorb the soluble forms of humus.

What can Humic substances/acids do?
• Aid plant tissues requiring free oxygen for aerobic respiration, and thus provide metabolic energy to all higher plants.
• Combine with sunlight and photosynthesis to furnish metabolic energy.
• When used as a dilute solution for foliar spray, cause plants to experience a notable uptake of oxygen, thus increasing plant growth.
• Not only assist plant respiration, but also increase the production and productivity of microorganisms.
• Assist plant respiration; they can serve as hydrogen acceptors for various plant root storage tissue.
• Produce energy involving photosynthesis, enhancing this process which includes the biochemical manufacture of complex organic materials, especially carbohydrates from carbon dioxide, water, trace minerals, and inorganic salts, along with sunlight energy for chlorophyll production.
• Increase the chlorophyll content in plant leaves when the plant is provided with root nutrient or foliar spray.
• Directly influence the development of enzymes and the net enzyme synthesis.
• Contain auxins; auxins are involved in the chelating of iron for the plant, improving growth, health, and nutrient intensity of the plant, especially the development of the root system of the plant.

What is fulvic acid?
Fulvic Acid is the most plant-active of the Humic Acid compounds, offering physical, chemical and biological benefits. Natural buffering, chelating and extremely high ion-exchange properties make mineral elements easier for plants to absorb. This results in increased plant vitality, resistance to environmental stress and improved crop quality and yields.

Benefits of fulvic acids:
Fulvic acid is especially active in dissolving minerals and metals when solutions are in water. The metallic minerals simply dissolve into ionic form, and disappear into the fulvic structure becoming bio-chemically reactive and mobile. The fulvic acid actually transforms these minerals and metals into elaborate fulvic acid molecular complexes that have vastly different characteristics from their previous metallic mineral form. Fulvic acid is nature's way of "chelating" metallic minerals, turning them into readily absorbable bio-available form. Fulvic acid also has the unique ability to weather and dissolve silica that it comes in contact with.

Fulvic acid enhances the availability of nutrients and makes them more readily absorbable, allowing minerals to regenerate and prolong time of essential nutrients. It prepares minerals to react with cells and allows minerals to inter-react with one another, breaking them down into the simplest ionic form, chelated by the fulvic acid electrolytes.

Fulvic acid readily complexes with minerals and metals, making them available to plant roots and easily absorbable through cell walls. It makes minerals such as iron, which are not usually very mobile, easily transported through plant structures. Fulvic acids dissolve and transpose vitamins, coenzymes, auxins, hormones, and natural antibiotics that are generally found throughout the soil, making them available.

These substances are effective in stimulating even more vigorous and healthy growth, producing certain bacteria, fungi, and actinomyceles in decomposing vegetation in the soil. It has been determined that all known vitamins can be present in healthy soil.

Plants manufacture many of their own vitamins, yet these from the soil further supplement the plant. Upon ingestion, animals and humans easily absorb these nutrients, due to the fact that they are in the perfect natural plant form as nature intended. Fulvic acid can often transport many times its weight in dissolved mineral elements.

Fulvic acid complexes have the ability to bio-react with one another, and also inter-react with cells to synthesize or transmute new mineral compounds. The transmutation of vegetal silica and magnesium to form calcium in animal and human bones is a typical example of new synthesis of minerals.

Fulvic acid has the ability to store complex vitamins in its structure, where they are presented to the cell in combination with complexed minerals. In this perfect, natural condition, they can be catalysed and utilized by the cell. In the absence of adequate trace minerals, vitamins are unable to perform their proper function.

It is apparent that there is very little that man-made intervention can do to aid or detract from Mother Nature's complexities. We are of an age where profit and abundance may be the foremost motivation for farming of many plants, yet if you take the view that if it is not broke, do not fix it, you can see that everything is there for success in growing, all that is needed is the natural resources, a little faith and allowing the natural elements to do their magic. We can see the results still, as our ancestors did, maybe without the odd sacrifice of a cow, but the future is actually in our past in this respect. There is nothing scientists can do that will make better what is already a perfect blend once all the elements are present.

 

[molotov]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Great article.

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

My new girls are jocking these new 2011 model lights. they just all perked up and not stress at all from the transplant, lots of new growth every day and just all perked up towards the light. Running one 240w light 33"

4 days only feed seaweed

 

[jdizzle22]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

My new girls are jocking these new 2011 model lights. they just all perked up and not stress at all from the transplant, lots of new growth every day and just all perked up towards the light. Running one 240w light 33"

4 days only feed seaweed

33 inches sounds pretty high up, do the nodes grow too closely if they are much lower?

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

33 inches sounds pretty high up, do the nodes grow too closely if they are much lower?

IDK never had them lower, when their baby's i keep the lights high to make them not transpire too much. never used these lights before so i have no clue, plants arnt stretching and seem happy so i will leave it at that hight for now.

 

[Jozo-sha]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

My lights finally shipped from Cali!!

Should be here on the 8th, hopefully all my beans will be in then too

Your shits looking fine Irish, hope I can keep up, yo!

 

[jdizzle22]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

My lights finally shipped from Cali!!

Should be here on the 8th, hopefully all my beans will be in then too

Your shits looking fine Irish, hope I can keep up, yo!

What did you get? I just got a 395w Mike says it could be shipped out tomorrow and here by tuesday!

 

[Jozo-sha]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

What did you get? I just got a 395w Mike says it could be shipped out tomorrow and here by tuesday!

I got 2 x 395w units. They're going side by side in my 3' x 4 1/2' tent

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

My lights finally shipped from Cali!!

Should be here on the 8th, hopefully all my beans will be in then too

Your shits looking fine Irish, hope I can keep up, yo!

very cool bro. dont show me up and make me look bad.lol

What did you get? I just got a 395w Mike says it could be shipped out tomorrow and here by tuesday!

I got 2 x 395w units. They're going side by side in my 3' x 4 1/2' tent

trust me guys keep the lights up high at 1st, these leds are no joke and will wilt ur clones/seedlings and kill them if too close. Zombo only use one light at 1st until they get big.