Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit

[Javahead]

It may seem strange to some of you, but I haven't grown in about 20 years, I did a lot of reading here, but Things are still a bit "foggy" to me. I'm using bagseed, and about 90% of it is presenting as Indica, Hybrid I suspect, the bud was good, Sleepy, but potent. When I used to grow it was Sativa's, and I understood them. But this stuff is like a whole different plant. I have them under 800W of CFL, They are doing well, Although I'm not sure about what their height might end up at (generally speaking). Is Topping a good choice with indicas? Is there any way for me to figure out all the dang names they use today for what they are growing, and relate it to Acapulco, Oaxacan, Lambsbead, Panama Red, Taiwanese, Lebanese, Etc. that I knew?
Any Old-Timers Updates to a new Century, I guess you might say.

Sorry, a lot of questions. But the world changed a bit.



"Owsley and Charlie, twins of the trade,
Come to the Poet's Room
Talking about the problems of a leaf,
And yes, it'll be back soon"
Grace Slick

 

[Cultivator]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

indicas respond well to topping and get bushy as hell. prob grow couple foot high. most plants today are crosses of indicas and sativas suited to indoor growing. but if u look around the seed banks u might find some of those old school strains.

 

[Javahead]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

Thank you Kind Squire,
That answers many questions in a nutshell, as it where. I am hard pressed on the seed banks, as the area I live in is....shall we say, not very progressive. But a trip by auto may be in store this summer, and the state I was raised in is very MMJ progressive.

Thanks again, Have a good day!

 

[Cultivator]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

No probs mate. just an after thought, u might want to consider switching to hps if ur running 800w of cfls, will definately benefit u in flower.

 

[Javahead]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

Thank you, I will look into that as cash flow allows.

 

[Farang]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

welcome back to cultivating. I only got back two years ago after not growing for 30 years.

a lot of what we knew and practiced back then are still vaild, like what they now call LST. but there is a whole lot more known today and there is a lot to catch up on along with the switch from outdoor cultivation to indoor.

I suggest reading Jorge Cervantes' book which is available on line.

our old practices of urinating on our plants is still practiced but not by many. there are better and more stable nitrogen sources advised and I agree.

topping receives both raves and rages. super cropping seems headed toward controversy, too. and then there is this technique called FIM.

I've used all of them but favor LST. you may also want to look into Sea of Green (SOG) or Screen of Green (SCROG) also. there are lots of proven ways to approach it.

there is a real split between those who buy name brand chemical nutrients and fertilizers and those who go the organic route. the underlying battle is between those who believe that feeding the PLANT is the object of feeding and those who believe that you don't feed the plant, you feed the soil.

pick your poison.

as to lights, I'm learning as I go. I'm just finishing the veg stage of this grow. my plants have responded very well with two 250W CFL bulbs (80W actual usage). I was using two HPS 18/6 but backed off after I got my electric bill. they'll come back this weekend when I switch to 12/12.

eventually, LED's will take over the market but I gather they are not always reliable and the initial investment is up there. this is compensated for by lower electric bills and no heat in the grow room. the only ones available here are Chinese made and everybody says to avoid those.

in the meantime, florescent lamps (if you have enough of them) are fine for the vegetation stage and people say you can go through to harvest with them but your buds will not be as dense and may not be as potent. HPS is recommended for flowering, until the LED's break through the cost/benefit paradigm.

happy growing!

 

[Farang]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

oh, and I made the assumption that you were growing in soil.

maybe not. there's hydro and aeroponic systems.

and if you're growing in soil and have access to such stuff, something called smart pots. some use plastic bags.

man, there is a lot to catch up on!

 

[Javahead]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

Farang, Thank you,
I had never urinated or used (raw) feces of any sort for my plants. As I understood it A: there is a contamination risk, and B:With either you can burn your plants. The only exception I know of too this is rabbit poo. I was raised on farms, and know some of manure, and composting it. But thank you! Yes, I am using soil, it only seems...natural. I had said somewhere, I when with a "KISS" system. I have 4 100w CFLs on a rope hanger system, with 2half-hitch knots that allow me to easily move the lights up or down as needed, and 4 wall mounted "side lights" for "foliage penetration" all of this stuffed into a closet about 24"x48". I think I need more light. From my reading I have a sort of SOG set up, although, I consider it more, Puddle of green. I just did my first real thinning yesterday. I forgot how much that hurts. But I try to remember "the good of the many outweighs the good of the few, or the one". I still have a very packed grow area. I'll try to snap a pic or two today.

 

[JustCurious79]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

I remember this one fellow. Said he started in 1979 with only one seed and got it to grow under a table lamp. Things have changed, people.

 

[Farang]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

back in 1971 I saw a guy growing one in a terrarium in about 1 1/2" of soil. I'll never forget how terrible that plant looked. as I remember, he was using a standard fish tank lamp and reflector.

no solid waste from a meat eater is ever recommended for gardening. I never heard of defecating on a crop.

it'll all come back to you, Javahead and you'll probably learn a whole bunch of new things.

I don't think I've tried to post a picture on this forum, yet. I should as it will give the community a good laugh. it's a bit harder to laugh at the results, but..........

I'm in a primitive country and on a tiny budget and I'm doing the best I can (and not too badly, so far). I have no access to all that fancy stuff like back in the States.

I make do with organic stuff which is available here: fish emulsion, kelp, bat guano, worm casings, chicken manure and I supplement with molasses, Epsom salts, dolomite lime, Azomite, Activated EM, inorganic sulfur.... I sometimes (mostly on a whim and NOT because I see a deficiency) I foliar feed with chelated calcium and micro nutrients. I'm not consistent about that feeding.

I lean toward the people who say put good stuff into your soil and the plant will do the work. I have not approached the 20% worm castings recommended by several with their postings, but I may have found a source (local agricultural university) of cheaper castings. I know they sell it in bulk, anyway, where up until now, I've had to buy one kilo bags. I would think that much castings would be more than sufficient nitrogen for the entire grow, but I'm not certain.

it took me nearly a year to find acceptable potting soil here. strangely, when re-reading a bit of Cervantes, it's a soil he recommends: mushroom substrate with trichoderma fungus and chitosan. (sounds impressive, right?)

I'm all for keeping costs down, but I don't go for cheap.

keep reading and writing. you'll do fine.

 

[Javahead]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

Thank you for the reply, again,
I have not gotten that into it yet, although I find myself looking in that direction. I am reading A LOT, and learning. Some of it is kind of funny, as in "everything old is new again". We know about organic tea for plants way back in the 70's. Not quite the "tricked out" organic stuff they are using on some of the big bud grows, but the idea is the same. Many of the ideas are really the same, I find, now they have just tweaked them to the growing of MJ. I think I will do OK, I understand the ideas and the principles behind them. My two biggest problems are cost. I have trouble spending buku bucks on a bunch of weeds, and the fact that I live in one of the most MJ backward states in the USA. Even buying supplies around here is a questionable issue. But, CFL's are easy to come by, and raise no flags, some things are able to be bought online safely, etc. So, I continue. My next thing to work on is seed stock. I had grown about 25 plants from bag seed, and some look VERY promising, I may clone them. If I plant more bag seed, and clone the best of that batch, well, in a few gen, I should have it down to the plants I REALLY want, as it where. I had gotten some seeds form what I called "botched grow house, grows" and the bud was truly excellent. There are many in Fl, that do grow house's and know much less than me. I'm sure they didn't catch a hermi and that's where the seed came from. Anyway, thanks again.

 

[Farang]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

where were you in Nam?

bag seed is a reasonable place to start. I'm practicing on F2 seeds I created but will order superior (I hope) seeds later this year. I'm on a very tight budget myself.

the biggest and best buds come from genetics and not from all the goop sold to create great weed. most think working with bag seed is a waste of time; it's not. my old VW will get me to any place your BMW will. I may be slower getting there, but............

the best you can do is make your growing environment conducive to good growth and keep them disease and bug free. by feeding either the soil or the plant you can bring out the best of that seed but you won't be growing anything prize winning.

I'm confident in you recovering your skills and picking up new techniques. the only caution is to not over-do stuff. in fact, don't over think stuff.

soldier on!

 

[Javahead]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

Well, as to Vietnam, no, missed it by 2-3 years, I was born in 1959. My Friends & I lost way too many brothers and uncles and cousins though, it was a tough time.

My thoughts on bag seed, at least the bag seed I was getting. A:I have been buying and selling and "importing" for 40 years, I know the bis. I can look at a bag and have a good Idea of the type of grow, and length of time in storage. Like, in Central Fl. LOTS of "swamp weed" sold as "regs". It was poorly dried, had seeds, not trimmed buds, but, not super compressed (likely local) in Florida, thats Swamp Weed! Or Cheap, "hydro" with 4-5 seeds per 1/4 oz. A "Botched" grow house, grow. People in Fl. do grow op's all the time because the econ is so bad, but they know nothing about the job, so seeds.

Anyway, I know with all the different grows, the growers STILL want a viable product, so, use the best seed stock you can, even the swamp weed farmer, the stuff that will get the most potent, fastest grow, is his best seed choice. (don't discount a Fl. swamp as a great grow area either, the sun is so bright it will burn your skin in minuets, the soil is nice and sandy, and swamp water is pure BLACK TEA. Oh, and the Gators keep most people away from your grow......At least this is what I hear....)

Anyway, the point is, Choosing "choice" bad seed is quite within the realm of possibility.

Thanks again, enjoy the talk.

 

[Farang]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

me, too.

what caught my eye was 'buku', a misspelling. it's Vietnamese adapted from French. I believe it's spelled bouquet, but my French is terrible. everybody I know who's been to Nam uses it and few others do.

I'm surprised to hear you say the sun is too anything for cannabis. the one point everybody seems to agree on is that more light is better and all of the indoor grow lights are only attempting to mimic the sun.

as I say, I've got nothing negative to say about bag seeds, but if you're buying somebody else's seeds, consistency may be the problem. this is one reason why most of us buy commercial seeds. I doubt you'll be disappointed by your seeds, though I doubt your X-ray vision.

if you have that gift, I'd think you'd be invaluable to the seed companies.

some out there think that germinating in a soil high in Nitrogen produces more females; some say that's true of Phosphorus. but I think it's in the genes almost exclusively. a lot of people buy feminized seeds because the results are 90% or better female. the rest either don't germinate or are male or hermie.

bag seeds give you the opportunity to learn and improve.

I'm excited for you.

 

[Javahead]

Re: Changes in the last 20 years? First grow in a bit.

well, in southern Fl, the "grows well in full sun" is a joke! Its the UV, IMO, after a bit over a decade. While many places/people think the "UV Scale" is 1-10, we down close to the tropics know, it's 1-15. Our UV stays in the 12-15 range for weeks on end. SO, if a plant is not tropical, full sun, burns it like an redhead on holiday in Disney (*That* is a sad sight) So is seeing your crops burn alive because you believed the "Does well in Full Sun". Tropical Sativa's do fine of course. I had a friend try some bag seed in rainy season. I'll ask him how that went. Oh and yes, the water, (swamp water) sits on/in limestone pockets (everything else is sand!) and makes sun tea. Great for plants. Different enviro though, More tropical than temperate, that is two seasons, not four. (rainy/dry not spring,summer,etc.)

Sorry, going on again. I Do think it's the totally unfiltered UV that kills most all traditional "mainland" full light plants. Fl. Being rather backward, Never got a chance to do a nice outdoor grow. OHHH to let some TRUE SATIVA run in the Tropical sun, for a year or two, what ever she wants! It could save the dang Orange farmers too! Switch the Fruit shipping to BUD shipping! YE-HAW!

Hmmm better cut back on the coffee. OH, I have a few pics of my current grow up now in my Gallery it's under (Javaheads MAX-KISS 30$ Bagseed Grow Experiment) There was less than 30$ total in the whole grow. Room setup, lights, nutes, Soil, everything! total, under 30$.

Talk to you again

 

[Farang]

I can't speak to UV but I'm further south than you.

the local weather station apparently dropped all its data regarding air pollution. they don't want to scare the tourists away. but all alone people here have been talking about ozone and I haven't heard good words about that.

I'm jealous that you got started so cheaply. I've been making somewhat costly mistakes all along and still get a reasonable product.

I hope you keep posting so I know how you're doing.

 

[Javahead]

Ahh, Jealous on the weather! We still get some winter "blasts".

As to the cheapness of my build, I was a builder for about 20 years, and have an issue with throwing out useable stuff. SO, I had most of my build stuff on hand. I realize that most people couldn't do this for 30$, but my next grow will be (how'd they use to say on TV, BIGGER, BETTER, FASTER, (and cost more too). Not too much, I realized I have an old squirrel cage fan in storage, so that's going in, I have Bone Meal, and Molasses in the cupboard, organic tea is easy to make, I'm fessing up the $ on the next round for some 3gal smart pots. And lastly I think I'll add 2 420W overhead CLFs. With New better soil, it should all run me less than 150$ The smart pots & some other stuff I get through Amazon, we have the "prime" so I can even get fertilizer delivered 2 day for free! Waiting on the nutes though. We have ducks and chickens here, I can get "free nutes" from them, AND I know JUST what they eat.

Perhaps the Next Gen, will be more interesting. If I ever move to a MMJ State, LOOK OUT! I'll be doing a MONDO GROW BUILD FROM HELL!
(a Mans got to have his dreams, right

 

[Farang]

when I own my home, I collect stuff, too.