DoctorGonzo
New Member
CFF does releases through DNA, as a sort of subsidiary.
CFF does releases through DNA, as a sort of subsidiary.
JimmyJames905
New Member
Ya. I know. Crockett was here at the Tweed facility in Smithsfalls delivering their "proprietary strains" to Tweed. Stuff you can't get in their normal run.
Their lemon skunk was botched by Tweed. (No curing) and their Banana Kush was a lot better but still only partially cured. But that's Tweeds fault not Crockett's. Tweed grows, dries and out the door it goes. I grew banana Kush years ago when it was readily available and I had to "over ripen" it to get the sweet banana taste. Tweeds tasted like green banana.
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uptheholler2
New Member
And that genetic soup is exactly what makes them f1 and f2 crosses not hybrids. In no other crop seed grown is that allowed. And while calling them hybrids sounds better to the grower its in fact incorrect. I get about 20 plus catalogs from vegetable herb and flower breeders. Those are the same standards that weed seed companies should have to adhere to. We as consumers should have reasonable expectations of germination percentages and the appearance and quality of the seeds progeny. That would seem honest and above board. Look veg seed companies give me all of that and a realistic idea of harvest and disease resistance that can be expected. Im just saying germination percentages are easy they simply test each seed lot. As far as botanical phenotypes that can be expected...they wont have that until they turn out actual hybrids
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DoctorGonzo
New Member
You can't make an F1 cross from P1 stock that's of mixed parentage unless the mixed parentage is genetically similar on each side, i.e., a cross of two land race indicas from Afghanistan on one side, and two land race sativas from Mexico on the other. Otherwise it's not a true F1 and won't behave accordingly. F2's are interbred specifically from F1's. Using F2 to describe a "second generation" of a cross is improper nomenclature unless used to describe an in-cross of an F1. Therefore, these "genetic soup" crosses with several parents of questionable &/or unknown lineage cannot possibly be labeled "F1" nor their in-crosses "F2."
As to germination; Any breeder that releases seeds with a germination test rate after curing of below 90%, is a shitweasel. And progeny should be tested and botanical phenotypes reported on, absolutely, but unlike the early days online, there's really no huge, main gathering site like Overgrow used to be, where growers policed breeders by their results. Back then, people who dropped shitty seeds got hammered, and laughed offline. The way things are now, has lead to the current miasma of utter bollocks being sold as "great genetics," and it's an absolute shitshow, with a few notable exceptions. I rarely need to buy seeds, I've got a fairly large library of exceptional P1 clone stock that's been carefully gathered over the years from all over, and I'm fortunate enough to not have to bother. - Doc
uptheholler2
New Member
But a filial 1 cross is still a cross breed not a true hybrid. Seed companies are in second place when it comes to online misrepresentation..second only to match making / dating sites. When pot seeds are offered similiarly to other true hybrid vegs and flowers...I will know that as an industry we are making strides
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DoctorGonzo
New Member
That is absolutely incorrect. A filial 1 cross is absolutely a hybrid, in fact, an F1 cross pretty much defines the term "hybrid."
Here is clarification related to the nomenclature:
F1 hybrid:
An F1 hybrid (or filial 1 hybrid) is the first filial generation of offspring of distinctly different parental types.[1] F1 hybrids are used in genetics, and in selective breeding, where it may appear as F1 crossbreed. The term is sometimes written with a subscript, as F1 hybrid.[2][3] Subsequent generations are called F2, F3, etc.
The offspring of distinctly different parental types produce a new, uniform phenotype with a combination of characteristics from the parents. In fish breeding, those parents frequently are two closely related fish species, while in plant and animal breeding the parents often are two inbred lines. Mules are F1 hybrids between horse and donkey. Today, certain domestic—wild hybrid breeds, such as the Savannah cat, are classified by their filial generation number.
Gregor Mendel focused on patterns of inheritance and the genetic basis for variation. In his cross-pollination experiments involving two true-breeding, or homozygous, parents, Mendel found that the resulting F1 generation were heterozygous and consistent. The offspring showed a combination of the phenotypes from each parent that were genetically dominant. Mendel's discoveries involving the F1 and F2 generations laid the foundation for modern genetics.
Production of F1 hybrids
In plants:
Crossing two genetically different plants produces a hybrid seed. This can happen naturally, and includes hybrids between species (for example, peppermint is a sterile F1 hybrid of watermint and spearmint). In agronomy, the term "F1 hybrid" is usually reserved for agricultural cultivars derived from two parent cultivars. These F1 hybrids are usually created by means of controlled pollination, sometimes by hand-pollination. For annual plants such as tomato and maize, F1 hybrids must be produced each season.
For mass-production of F1 hybrids with uniform phenotype, the parent plants must have predictable genetic effects on the offspring. Inbreeding and selection for uniformity for multiple generations ensures that the parent lines are almost homozygous. The divergence between the (two) parent lines promotes improved growth and yield characteristics in offspring through the phenomenon of heterosis ("hybrid vigour" or "combining ability").
Two populations of breeding stock with desired characteristics are subjected to inbreeding until the homozygosity of the population exceeds a certain level, usually 90% or more. Typically this requires more than ten generations. Thereafter the two strains must be crossed, while avoiding self-fertilization. Normally this is done with plants by deactivating or removing male flowers from one population, taking advantage of time differences between male and female flowering or hand-pollinating.
In 1960, 99 percent of all corn planted in the United States, 95 percent of sugar beet, 80 percent of spinach, 80 percent of sunflower, 62 percent of broccoli and 60 percent of onions were F1 hybrids. Beans and peas are not commercially hybridized because they are automatic pollinators, and hand-pollination is prohibitively expensive.
F2 hybrid:
F2 hybrids, the result of self or cross pollination of F1s, lack the consistency of F1s, though they may retain some desirable traits and can be produced more cheaply, because hand pollination or other interventions are not required. Some seed companies offer F2 seed at less cost, particularly in bedding plants where consistency is less critical.
I hope that provides clarity to the readers.
- Doc
dropcroptop
New Member
Damn I just bought the sour jack and I am having some issues aswell. Your telling me they had the wrong picture assigned to it!? I'm a new grower so the picture was a main buying point. Wow
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It's been another week of waiting after being told by CKS, again, that they'd get back to me 'immediately'.
I finally broke down and sent them a pissed off email. Detailed a bit of the runaround I've had with a month of sending them multiple emails and PMs -from multiple addresses- 95% of them getting no reply whatsoever. Mentioned that other contest 'winners' are reporting similar service. Including that Feral got completely different seeds than he ordered- then was told that CKS doesn't ship to Australia (despite the fact the they most definitely do as many as Australians can tell you). He was told he's 'lucky he got anything' and 'try to change countries' (!!!!).
Got this response today- entire email-
At this point I'm walking away. If they contact me - fine. If they don't- that's even finer. I'm completely sick of dealing with this so called company.
I finally broke down and sent them a pissed off email. Detailed a bit of the runaround I've had with a month of sending them multiple emails and PMs -from multiple addresses- 95% of them getting no reply whatsoever. Mentioned that other contest 'winners' are reporting similar service. Including that Feral got completely different seeds than he ordered- then was told that CKS doesn't ship to Australia (despite the fact the they most definitely do as many as Australians can tell you). He was told he's 'lucky he got anything' and 'try to change countries' (!!!!).
Got this response today- entire email-
At this point I'm walking away. If they contact me - fine. If they don't- that's even finer. I'm completely sick of dealing with this so called company.
yyc420
New Member
THe Sour Jack Fem. and the CC Auto mix up should have been cleared up. Now if you order Sour Jack...You get Sour Jack. If you order CC Autos, you should be getting CC Autos. Looks like it was only those who ordered the CC Autos in Nov/Dec (myself included) were subject to the mix up. The customer service is definitely improving. Although, I know how frustrating it can be at times.
uptheholler2
New Member
Hey Doc! From a commercial stand point an f1 cross does not define a hybrid. During my years in turf grass field trials both evaluating crosses and growth regulators my Supervisors were very quick to correct me when I referred to a plot number as a promising hybrid. They always said the same thing ,No a hybrid is what we hope to achieve all we have now is controlled crosses. I am not here to argue botanical nomenclature. When I was 10 in my truck patch I had a bell pepper cross with a tomato Since I was a seed saver the next year I had some bell peppers that were like tomatoes inside ...full of locular jelly. That is an unintentional cross not a hybrid. My professors would say that a hybrid is the result of controlled crosses and rigorous trait specific selection. Now. as far as people buying f2 flower or veg crosses , Ive never met them. At trade shows and because I bought such large dollar amounts of veg seed in my day I constantly am given free f2 and up seed to run what seed companies refer to a field trials. Most of the time in a commercial venture its a waste of my time and money. It costs alot to lay miles of plastic. I require uniform harvest windows, fruit size and quality, plant vigor and disease resistance packages. That is simply not some thing I can get with an f2 cross. In the commercial world thats what hybrid means. Its also why the world of dogs has so many weird Labrapoodlemations out there. Again crosses not true breeding hybrids. I wish you the best but the bottom line is that the world of weed is a far ways from offering true hybrid seed stock.
Best of luck in all you grow!
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Best of luck in all you grow!
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sounds like my 1and only experience with crop king purple kush, bought directly from cropking trying to introduce some new blood into our little group. all instructions followed to the T, finally out of the 10 4 germed barely. they all withered away within 2 -4 days. moderate temps, no ferts or nutes. i did email them in regard to the issues. they wanted me to call them and go over the same things that were in my email. not really worth it to us.. just seems like weak genetics ... same general strain from another bank, same germ process just to see what i could see. the new beans are runaways. i'm sure that this may not be everyone's experience but it was ours.
sad ...
sad ...
Torst
Well-Known Member
I have had more than one of their strains do that for no reason. Not fun...
id be upset about the not being autoflower for when I get to around day 70 and realize I could be getting ready to chop it down but in the end it ha happy af. you deffently gonna get sum good erb, sour jack looks bomb af.
popojijo4
New Member
Grew white siberian from Dinafem and let me tell u I grow 3 of those babies and they blew away every single cks I've grew which was a lot. Never will I go to another seed bank this shit is actually fire
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