Crop King Seeds cover-up!

[ChronicAffair]

Has anybody here tried The Brown dirt warriors seeds?

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[DoctorGonzo]

What ever happened to Neville family farms? I know they branched off as DNA genetics but none of the original Neville strains seem to be available. Wtf went down after the 90's?

DNA has nothing to do with Neville.
In the early 90's, Neville sold The Seed Bank to Ben Dronkers, and it became Sensi Seeds. Dronkers still owns the Cannabis Castle, Neville's old fort outside Amsterdam. After various adventures, Neville went back into the seed business a few years back, with Shanti, of Mr. Nice Seeds, who's the only breeder I know of that still runs legit, old school Neville genetic stock.
As to availability, MNS still has the old school Afghani, Skunk #1, Northern Lights and Hazes available-And those are the absolute cornerstones of pretty much everything that is good today in cannabis.

 

[JimmyJames905]

Yeah no where near done.... Is it even PK?

I got a freebie White Widow from CANUK seeds and it is such a beautiful plant I will be running it again, took nice clones!

It's crop kings PK. That's what the pack says anyway. I'll bring the temp down and see how much purple I get. Just started with the deep red 660nm COBs so hopefully a Fall Simulation will bring out the colours. I would have been done Bergmans blueberry twice by now.


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[Ghanjakhan]

This my CKS PK. Claimed "6-8 weeks flower" I'm on week 7. As you can see....got a loooong way to go.

I've literally watched my hair turn grey through this Grow.


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PK is actually 8-10 weeks and says that on the packs as well, says it on mine anyways, not defending CKS here just correcting your mistake, im also growing it and will agree out of the 3 strains im growing it is the most picky by far and has some strange things going on. I have Blueberry, PurpleKush, SourJack and CaliOGxHaze seeds on hand now from CKS but from all the research ive been doing I think im going to try a different seed bank for my next couple picks. Im liking what im seeing from Attitude. Im fairly new at this myself so I am in no way claiming that I know what im talking about, I use this site mostly for learning and try to avoid posting as much as I can in fear of sounding like an idiot.

Whats everyones thoughts on the Auto Dark Devil's offered on Attitude by SweetSeeds? As mentioned above im new to this and just learning about phenos and genes so im not sure what I should really be looking for. Obviously "F1" landrace genetics would be amazing to work with but they seem hard to come across.

 

[Torst]

It's crop kings PK. That's what the pack says anyway. I'll bring the temp down and see how much purple I get. Just started with the deep red 660nm COBs so hopefully a Fall Simulation will bring out the colours. I would have been done Bergmans blueberry twice by now.


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Yeah, I kind of feel like CKS is somewhat "slower" than other genetics... My friend ran a Jack Herer pure sativa cross from the 90's that finished at the same time as my Hash Plants that should have finished weeks earlier as we did flip almost on the same day.

 

[JimmyJames905]

PK is actually 8-10 weeks and says that on the packs as well, says it on mine anyways, not defending CKS here just correcting your mistake, im also growing it and will agree out of the 3 strains im growing it is the most picky by far and has some strange things going on. I have Blueberry, PurpleKush, SourJack and CaliOGxHaze seeds on hand now from CKS but from all the research ive been doing I think im going to try a different seed bank for my next couple picks. Im liking what im seeing from Attitude. Im fairly new at this myself so I am in no way claiming that I know what im talking about, I use this site mostly for learning and try to avoid posting as much as I can in fear of sounding like an idiot.

Whats everyones thoughts on the Auto Dark Devil's offered on Attitude by SweetSeeds? As mentioned above im new to this and just learning about phenos and genes so im not sure what I should really be looking for. Obviously "F1" landrace genetics would be amazing to work with but they seem hard to come across.

Yup. Just checked the pack. 8/10 weeks.
Checked my calendar too. Flipped 12/12 on January 12. Popped buds on Jan 21. So I'm week 7 today. Already started KB dry so pretty sure I can finish it up in 3 weeks.



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[KingJoe83]

Yeah no where near done.... Is it even PK?

I got a freebie White Widow from CANUK seeds and it is such a beautiful plant I will be running it again, took nice clones!

That us where I'm going next to try.

How to grow in Coco - Feed schedule

 

[OldSchool 64]

My last pk took 11 weeks to finish..
There is no set time for a plant to finish anyway..
When its done its done..the plant will let you know..
All the so called flowering time seed banks have is just an estimate..
No seeds are the same everytime..
Plus theres so many varitables..nutes..lighting ..temps.ect..
Each grower is different.some cut early some late..
So to say the pack says 8 weeks so its ready to cut that day.
wont happen..not how it works..

 

[livetoskate81]

I've been saying this for the last few months!!! Something happened with the CC AUTOS and no one was talking about it . It seems that the CC auto got mixed up with a photo period seed and they haven't fixed this problem yet!!! It has been almost 4 months now I've been hearing this about the Candy Cane Autos and they haven't fixed this problem yet!!!Live-Love-Learn


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[Imhigh85]

When feminizing see it's only a hundred to 98% female you get males once in awhile and as for autoflowering it is a completely different strain other than indica and sativa that they used to make it Autoflower it's not 100%

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[uptheholler2]

Again.... we are not talking true hybrids here. Go back and look at the variations Mendel found with his pea seeds. Its the same with weed. Especially with these f2 and f3 crosses. So lets say you make a basic sativa - indica cross. Now to make it try to be an auto flower...you take your seed from your initial cross and use it to cross to a ruderalis species plant. These are now known as an autoflowering species. Its not actually an auto flowering species. Its just a species that evolved gradually as a plant community population expands ...but more on that some other time. When you make that cross a certain percentage of the seed is going to display a wide mix of those genetic characteristics. Like Mendels peas. The real challenge when breeding any plant in a professional or hobbist breeding program is maintaining strict focus on your goals and fixing those desired traits within your line. As always best of luck in all you grow!

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[DoctorGonzo]

A Seed That Looks Simple, Often Isn't

When an "auto" is bred, it's generally a Ruderalis Hemp hybrid (Hybrid A x Ruderalis Hemp) crossed to a polyhybrid.

An Example:
Sensi's Ruderalis Indica (Indica Y x Ruderalis Hemp) crossed to let's say Gorilla Glue #4, which is: (Chem's Sister/Sour Dubb/Chocolate Diesel) by way of an accidental hermie pollination.

So, in this "auto", the following genetics are represented:
1) Indica Y
2) Ruderalis Hemp
3) Chem's Sister
4) Sour Dubb
5)Chocolate Diesel

And in the above five, some are polyhybrids, so let's break that down:
1) Chem's Sister (in all probability it's something like Skunk #1/NL5/Afghani)
2) Sour Dubb - Sour D, Bubblegum,
3) Chocolate Diesel- Chocolate Thai, Sour Diesel

Sooooo...
What's IN "Gorilla Glue Auto" is:

1) Indica Y (?) (probably land race)
2) Ruderalis Hemp (land race (IBL)
3) Sk#1 (hybrid, now IBL)
4) NL5 (Afghani hybrid, now essentially an IBL)
5) Afghani (land race/IBL)
6) Sour Diesel (Sk/NL)
7) Bubblegum (hybrid, now an inbred line (IBL)
8) Chocolate Thai (allegedly land race/IBL)

Point being, If one expects results "as pictured/stated" by the GG#4 clone, one is going to be mighty, mighty disappointed.

Gorilla Glue #4, originating as it did, is a piss poor choice to use in any breeding project. Piss. Poor. (But that's for a different thread.) And if the seeds are "feminized", it's even worse. But it's a popular name, so it's a money grab right now. Truth be known, it's okay herb, but it's not in anyone that I know's Top 50. Lots of hype, is really about It. It was used as an illustration to show how many different gene pools and recombinations are in what looks like a fairly simple seed offering.

- Doc



*Please note: This genetic breakdown is generalized, not scientific, to illustrate the complexity of what, at face value, looks very simple. It's not.

 

[JimmyJames905]

A Seed That Looks Simple, Often Isn't

When an "auto" is bred, it's generally a Ruderalis Hemp hybrid (Hybrid A x Ruderalis Hemp) crossed to a polyhybrid.

An Example:
Sensi's Ruderalis Indica (Indica Y x Ruderalis Hemp) crossed to let's say Gorilla Glue #4, which is: (Chem's Sister/Sour Dubb/Chocolate Diesel) by way of an accidental hermie pollination.

So, in this "auto", the following genetics are represented:
1) Indica Y
2) Ruderalis Hemp
3) Chem's Sister
4) Sour Dubb
5)Chocolate Diesel

And in the above five, some are polyhybrids, so let's break that down:
1) Chem's Sister (in all probability it's something like Skunk #1/NL5/Afghani)
2) Sour Dubb - Sour D, Bubblegum,
3) Chocolate Diesel- Chocolate Thai, Sour Diesel

Sooooo...
What's IN "Gorilla Glue Auto" is:

1) Indica Y (?) (probably land race)
2) Ruderalis Hemp (land race (IBL)
3) Sk#1 (hybrid, now IBL)
4) NL5 (Afghani hybrid, now essentially an IBL)
5) Afghani (land race/IBL)
6) Sour Diesel (Sk/NL)
7) Bubblegum (hybrid, now an inbred line (IBL)
8) Chocolate Thai (allegedly land race/IBL)

Point being, If one expects results "as pictured/stated" by the GG#4 clone, one is going to be mighty, mighty disappointed.

Gorilla Glue #4, originating as it did, is a piss poor choice to use in any breeding project. Piss. Poor. (But that's for a different thread.) And if the seeds are "feminized", it's even worse. But it's a popular name, so it's a money grab right now. Truth be known, it's okay herb, but it's not in anyone that I know's Top 50. Lots of hype, is really about It. It was used as an illustration to show how many different gene pools and recombinations are in what looks like a fairly simple seed offering.

- Doc



*Please note: This genetic breakdown is generalized, not scientific, to illustrate the complexity of what, at face value, looks very simple. It's not.

So by the lineage you ascertain, Gorilla Glue Auto is no relation to Gorilla Glue #1,2,3,4?


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[DoctorGonzo]

It's crop kings PK. That's what the pack says anyway. I'll bring the temp down and see how much purple I get. Just started with the deep red 660nm COBs so hopefully a Fall Simulation will bring out the colours. I would have been done Bergmans blueberry twice by now.

That, is not a "pure Kush." That isn't even a Kush.

 

[DoctorGonzo]

So by the lineage you ascertain, Gorilla Glue Auto is no relation to Gorilla Glue #1,2,3,4?

GG #1-4 are four "accidental" seeds from when the Chem's Sister clone (it was said) reversed. What I'm saying is, the odds of getting a representation of the GG#4 clone from those "GG Auto" seeds is less than zero.
I'm also saying that "gorilla glue" isn't worth chasing. Every single grower I know that's run the original GG#4 clone (& I know quite a few) has tossed it in the garbage. It likes to reverse under little to no stress, and frequently drops just enough half assed almost non-viable pollen late enough in flower to fuck up surrounding flowers with tiny, non-viable pin dot seeds. This is a result of running seeds (GG#4) that came from a reversal-seeds generated this way frequently like to carry sensitivity traits forward (i.e. hermie problems) when seeds are made like this. Oh yeah- The pot itself is only okay. Not memorable, compared to many others I can name. Real OG Kush (clone-only's) for example, absolutely, easily curbstomp GG#4.


I'm saying that GG#4 is a poly-poly-hybrid, resulting from a reversal, and getting the same profile/expression of the GG#4 clone to replicate anywhere near the original GG#4 plant, is about the same odds as winning a lottery while being struck by lightning.

 

[uptheholler2]

Hey Dr G! I agree with you odds equation 100 %. But really nothing you describe is a "hybrid". They are in fact nothing more than crosses between species and varieties within that species. I know from my own 20 plus year breeding project how not focusing on the traits you have determined to enhance or reduce can destroy a project. I also understand the siren song to the ears of profiteers. Best of luck in all you grow.

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[HizzyB]

Im not defending Crop King Seeds. They messed up. But I will say this about all seed companies. Far too many of them talk about their lines as if they are hybrids most if not all..are not even close. As I have said before when you drove by cornfield s or bean fields in the summer and you look out you see every single plant in 1000 acres the exact same height , stalk thickness and the exact same stage of growth. Thats a hybrid. As any kid who has detasseled corn in the old days...that takes years and years of focused selection and highly controlled pollination. Thats why seed companies look for fields that dont show that kind of uniformity in growth or in signature genetics tests at the elevator and sue farmers that grow self saved seed. This kind of breeding or using your own saved seed stock is a violation of their patent laws and they pursue damages aggressively. Now back to weed seed companies they should never claim that this or that variety will be certain to have a specific trait. The more reputable ones will tell you what the controlled crosses were and what genetic traits they were focusing upon in making those crosses. A huge problem also arises when you combine a controlling breeder who has lost focus on the genetic traits that the project set out to achieve ...with... the monetary desire to strike while the iron is hot on any trendy new variety. I went with Bodhi Seeds this time because I like and respect their business practices. Again to the moderators... I dont work for Bodhi.. I hust want to help growers grow great weed at a reasonable price. Heck Im probably screwing myself by doing this because varieties that I want to buy often sell out too quickly as it is!! But here us what I like. They simply tell what lines were crossed. Nothing else. They utilize a number of landraces. And finally I often can buy 10 or 11 packs non femd for around 70 bucks! Again I have been growing weed since 1976 I been a life long farmer. And I am a max return on investment kind of guy...a tight wad. Best of luck in all you grow!

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Wanted to say thanks for the schooling

I needed that

Makes a lot of sense


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[JimmyJames905]

DNA has nothing to do with Neville.
In the early 90's, Neville sold The Seed Bank to Ben Dronkers, and it became Sensi Seeds. Dronkers still owns the Cannabis Castle, Neville's old fort outside Amsterdam. After various adventures, Neville went back into the seed business a few years back, with Shanti, of Mr. Nice Seeds, who's the only breeder I know of that still runs legit, old school Neville genetic stock.
As to availability, MNS still has the old school Afghani, Skunk #1, Northern Lights and Hazes available-And those are the absolute cornerstones of pretty much everything that is good today in cannabis.

Sorry. Brain fart. I meant "Crockett family farms branched off as DNA" zzzzzzzz


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[dropcroptop]

cks just told me that yes the mix up of ccaf were indeed the new strain sourjack. the 2 i have growing are very different phenos. i wish these seed bank-breeders would give me the seeds from the same flower, so that hopefully the phenos would be more simular to each other ? so, my now 1 sourjack is a beautifull example then of the strain.very sativa dom.the other is short and has some of the northern lights from the sour diesal part. ive been flowering them now for about 4-5 days. cks also changed back their website. so now i know what the heck im growing. thats why i buy the genetics, because ive grown enough of not knowing what it is.so to any new guys- buy good seeds.bag seeds will usually have hermie situation. so all that being said. i like crop king seeds again.!! thanks.

THIS IS THE SHORT sourjack.

Did it stay primarily short for it's life?


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[DoctorGonzo]

Hey Dr G! I agree with you odds equation 100 %. But really nothing you describe is a "hybrid". They are in fact nothing more than crosses between species and varieties within that species. I know from my own 20 plus year breeding project how not focusing on the traits you have determined to enhance or reduce can destroy a project. I also understand the siren song to the ears of profiteers. Best of luck in all you grow.

As you know, there are various types of hybrids.
For the others reading; An F1 hybrid is two wholly unlike plants crossed, (i.e. land race indica and LR sativa) and the resulting progeny will be homogenous, equally dividing the traits of both unlike P1 parents in the progeny.
Whereas a (F2) cross of F1 hybrids will show very large swings towards either/or P1 parent within the resulting progeny.
The "poly hybrids" I described in my earlier post, are a re-re-recombination of land races and other hybrids including F1 and F2 hybrids. The results of polys, as I like to call them, (and perhaps my nomenclature isn't exactly scientific, here) are basically a melting pot, or genetic soup, (and frequently a clusterfuck, which is why the idiots cashing in on the seed business put out so much fucking garbage) and generally when line breeding as you know, one doesn't use them. Polys are best for unicorn hunting, not for breeding for specific trait isolation/amplification. Fun stuff. .