Do I correct or not correct?

[Beeb Beebman]

Hello all. I have some several week old clones recently transplanted into 7g containers under 1000w hps. They are growing in a 50/50 mix of roots organics and FF ocean forest. I also have Roots organics buddha grow and bloom. I am also feeding them RO water. I have read numerous posts and even called a few of the larger nutrient manufacters asking them if I need to be ph correcting my nutrient solution prior to feeding it to my young plants and many of them said no. Just curious what everyones thoughts are on this as this is my first grow and I'm a bit nervous about this whole ph thing. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[68camaro]

ro water, id say no worries. but id feel safer knowing whats really going into my creation!
peace
ph meter

 

[Cona]

Beeb:

Heres the deal. Some say if you are growing organic then no need to ph as it will self adjust. I say no way. Plus you are useing chem nutes.....by the way....no need to feed anything for at least 1 month with that soil mixture.

Heres what I would do..... PH your water to 6.3 when you water. and then if you see nitrogen lockout later then check your runnoff waters PH....and adjust with hydrated lime if it needs raised.

In the future grows....ALWAYS..add dolomite lime pellets to your soil mixture. This will buffer the soil to the correct zone ph and keep it there for the most part. Also do ph your water each watering to 6.1 as it will gradually raise while the soil dries between waterings. Adding dolomite pellets adds cal and magnesium....which will help your ro water. You will probably also need cal/mag also.

Ive been EXACTLY where you are right now 2 years ago......

Cheers

Cona

 

[Vapedogg223]

I'm going to offer a slightly different opinion... When I started growing a little more than a year and a half ago I started buying grow bibles and reading everything I could. I'm sure I don't need to tell you conventional wisdom says you must pH your water! Then I found a journal here by DocBud... He was using Osmocote Plus for nutes and not bothering to pH, yet his plants looked awesome. He explained that a properly constructed soil mix is itself a powerful buffer, and because of this, the larger the container you grow in the more buffering power it has.

I didn't want to argue with success, so I stopped even checking my pH about a year ago and haven't looked back. There is one caveat though...your water's total alkalinity needs to be between 60 and maybe 100... if it's not, you'll need to cut your tap with RO until it's in that range.

Fully organic is a whole different animal. If you're soil is teaming with micro orgizinasims, then you definitely don't need to pH...in fact the pH up/down might even harm the micorherd. It's a different approach entirely where you feed the soil, and the microbes feed the plant. Cona is right, if you're using chemical nutes that's not going to happen.

Anyway...just something to consider.

 

[Beeb Beebman]

Thank you so much vapedog and Cona for your replies. So much great info you both have given me. I have since switched to the entire GO line of nutrients, I was able to get a great deal at my local shop. Would these still be considered "chem nutes" as I had thought the Roots stuff was organic. I love the whole "Feed the soil, feed the plant" vibe, its one of the things that has me HOOKED on wanting be a GREAT organic grower!! So with my switch to the GO line of nutes, I'm pretty stoked on getting some to my girls. Soil a bit moist still from my last watering w/ 1/2 str. nutes. Next grow I will surely fluff my mix with some more perlite. Thanks to all who replied! I appreciate ALL OF YOU!!

 

[Cona]

Im not familer with the go line.

I grow with the supersoil method. Are you familier with this? Its 100% organic and is really easy once you make up the soil.

Cona

 

[Beeb Beebman]

Im not familer with the go line.

I grow with the supersoil method. Are you familier with this? Its 100% organic and is really easy once you make up the soil.

Cona

Yes, is this similar to subcools soil mix? Something else I've wanted to try out as well.

 

[Cona]

It works really really well.

I make up my supersoil in 1/3 batches...costs me about 100 bucks and makes a 55 gallon trash can full of supersoil. I use about 1/4 supersoil in each 5 gallon pot....the rest is just roots organic soil...so the 55 gallon can lasts a long time for me. I can keep 15 plants and am at capasity all year with 5 in flower...5 in veg...and 5 either germinating or clones rooting. I do a perpetual garden....take 2 down...flower 2...transplant 2...clone 2....cure and consume 2. Keeps me and my peeps grinning all year.

With the supersoil its really stress free. No worry about PPM feedings....less worry about PH and no worry about burning or underfeeding. I plant them and water them...I add guano to my watering when they need a boost durring flower....I make wormcasting and kelp teas to boost the microbes in the soil....makeing the supersoil even more availible to the plants. Some of my plants get 5 ounces per plant in my 5 gallon smart pots....depending on the strain...some less. I veg for 6 to 7 weeks. It depends on when the plants finish....if the flowering room is full and the 2 plants I want to take down next are not done...then the plants veg longer. The day a plant comes down...a vegging plant is moved into flower.....just keep it going ya know.

Beeb, I would recomend subcools methods without a doubt...the recipe is excellent. We will help ya if ya need advice. Heres the 1/3 batch recipe if ya need it.

->1/3 Batch (4 cubic feet)

2.7 - Large bags (1.5 cubic ft. ea) of High quality Organic soil with Mycorrhizae
(i.e. Roots Organic)

8-16 lbs. Worm Castings
1.7 lbs. Steamed Bone Meal (0-10-0)
1.7 lbs. Bat Guano (Fruit Bat)
1.7 lbs. Blood Meal
1# Rock Phosphate
1/4 cup Epsom Salts
1/3 cup sweet lime (dolomite powder)
1/3 Cup Azomite (Trace Elements)
2 tsp. Powdered Humic Acid

 

[Cona]

The bat guano is high P I use 0 5 0 happyfrog and it works great

Heres the 1/2 batch and full batch as well as 1/3 batch

8 large bags of high quality organic potting soil with coco and Mycorrhizae
25-50 lbs. of organic worm castings
5 lbs. of Blood meal 12-0-0
5 lbs. Bat guano 0-5-0
5 lbs. Fish Bone Meal 3-16-0
¾ cup Epsom salt
1 cup Sweet lime (Dolomite)
½ cup Azomite ( Trace element)
2 Tbs. powdered Humic acid
*** If using an RO system add in 1/2 cup powdered Cal/mag

1/2 Batch:
4 bags Organic Base Soil
12.5-25 lbs. Worm Castings
2.5 lbs Fish Bone Meal
2.5 lbs Bat Guano
2.5 lbs Blood Meal
3/8 cup (1/4 cup + 1/8 cup) Epsom Salts
1/2 cup Sweet (dolomite) Lime
1/4 cup Azomite
1 Tbs Powdered Humic Acid

1/3 Batch:
2.7 bags Organic Base Soil
8-16 lbs Worm Castings
1.7 lbs Fish Bone Meal
1.7 lbs Bat Guano 0 5 0
1.7 lbs Blood Meal
1/4 cup Epsom Salts
1/3 cup Sweet (dolomite) Lime
2.5 Tbs Azomite
2 tsp. powdered HUmic Acid

 

[Beeb Beebman]

Cona, thanks a bundle man. I really appreciate you taking the time to supply that info for me. I'm slowly gathering the ingredients for the subcool mix. ATM i'm legal to have 12 plants, so a smaller batch is what I need. Also, this M3 michigan mix appears to be a bagged version of Subcool's mix. Any thoughts on that? Funds are tight atm and the local shop has the m3 mix. I got some really mature clones I need to move into some bigger containers asap. I was thinking the M3 in the lower 1/3 to 1/2 of the container and the rest ROOTS organic. In addition, I'm about to get an air pump and a little resevoir to start my foray into brewing some teas. Any recommendations on that? I've heard that a pump that moves too much water can disturb and/or destroy the beneficial microbes in your brew. Also, is the use of an air stone necessary? I've heard that NO seems to be the answer. As far as the "brew" goes I was thinking something along the lines of some molasses, worm castings, and a little kelp. Something kind of like, a little "gatorade" for my soil.haha. Again thanks for the help, and sorry if i'm a bit long winded here. You are very much appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[Vapedogg223]

Cona, thanks a bundle man. I really appreciate you taking the time to supply that info for me. I'm slowly gathering the ingredients for the subcool mix. ATM i'm legal to have 12 plants, so a smaller batch is what I need. Also, this M3 michigan mix appears to be a bagged version of Subcool's mix. Any thoughts on that? Funds are tight atm and the local shop has the m3 mix. I got some really mature clones I need to move into some bigger containers asap. I was thinking the M3 in the lower 1/3 to 1/2 of the container and the rest ROOTS organic. In addition, I'm about to get an air pump and a little resevoir to start my foray into brewing some teas. Any recommendations on that? I've heard that a pump that moves too much water can disturb and/or destroy the beneficial microbes in your brew. Also, is the use of an air stone necessary? I've heard that NO seems to be the answer. As far as the "brew" goes I was thinking something along the lines of some molasses, worm castings, and a little kelp. Something kind of like, a little "gatorade" for my soil.haha. Again thanks for the help, and sorry if i'm a bit long winded here. You are very much appreciated. Thanks again.

I hope Cona doesn't mind me butting in here. But I have been researching this extensively, and put together a DIY AACT brewer not that long ago. I even read a book on compost teas. You'll never guess what it was called...wait for it...Compost Tea Making by Marc Remillard.

Anyway, everything I've come across is just the opposite. People use pumps that don't provide ENOUGH air. I doubt you could find an aquarium jump that moves too much air when brewing compost teas. Maybe a one made for a pond, but you won't hurt the bacteria with air. Remember, if you don't have enough oxygen, the tea can go anaerobic, and that's when you can grow pathogens!

What you might be thinking of is if you are trying to grow fungal teas. Fungi needs something to hang on to and will break up in teas from agitation. Ingredients in the tea like kelp meal give them a something to grow on. But cannabis prefers a bacterially dominated or balanced bacteria/fungi tea, so thats not really a concern.

That's definitely the start of a good basic EWC tea... the only other thing I would recommend is some Azomite. In addition to the carbohydrates in the molasses the micro organisms also need trace minerals for food. There are some in molasses, but not really enough. Might be enough from the kelp meal, but Azomite is the absolute best for this...there's nothing else like it.

My basic recipe per gallon of water is:

1 cup earth worm castings
1 tbs unsulphured blackstrap molasses
1 tsp Kelp Meal
1 tsp Azomite

You can also use liquid seaweed for a more bacterially dominated tea, since the fungi won't what anything to hold on to. I also think the micros are more concentrated and more readily available in liquid form. Neptune's Harvest is my choice.

Edit: Take a look here Tea brewing. The 5 gallon bucket one is very similar to the what I put together.

 

[Cona]

Cona, thanks a bundle man. I really appreciate you taking the time to supply that info for me. I'm slowly gathering the ingredients for the subcool mix. ATM i'm legal to have 12 plants, so a smaller batch is what I need. Also, this M3 michigan mix appears to be a bagged version of Subcool's mix. Any thoughts on that? Funds are tight atm and the local shop has the m3 mix. I got some really mature clones I need to move into some bigger containers asap. I was thinking the M3 in the lower 1/3 to 1/2 of the container and the rest ROOTS organic. In addition, I'm about to get an air pump and a little resevoir to start my foray into brewing some teas. Any recommendations on that? I've heard that a pump that moves too much water can disturb and/or destroy the beneficial microbes in your brew. Also, is the use of an air stone necessary? I've heard that NO seems to be the answer. As far as the "brew" goes I was thinking something along the lines of some molasses, worm castings, and a little kelp. Something kind of like, a little "gatorade" for my soil.haha. Again thanks for the help, and sorry if i'm a bit long winded here. You are very much appreciated. Thanks again.

Im not sure about the michigan mix soil but I really doubt its anywhere as rich "hot" as subcools. If ya need to do go ahead and move the plants like you say into the other soil....then for your next plants start your supersoil asap because it needs to marinate for 30 days after mixing b4 you can use it. Gives all the ingredients time to meld togather and activates the mycos....subcool calls it cooking the soil but that is misleading...it just needs to sit and be mixed up once after about 3 weeks.
I personally would not change anything with subs recipe until you have used it for a while. Its pretty much bullitproof for bif killer organic smooth weed.

For a AACT tea it must have lots of air. 1 big airstone from the hydro store and a good (45 bucks usually) air pump. This tea really depends on the oxygen so the more the better. I actually have 2 duel outlet air pumps on a manifold into 1 kickass stone.

You can make some teas that dont use any air but these take much longer and tend to really stink up the place. Here is a short video of one of my teas when its almost ready...see the slime and foam> Thats all good microbes that go to work converting the supersoil into high quality food for my flowering plants. Keep in mind...when useing supersoil you must be careful if you feed anything to your plants as the supersoil may be just perfect and feeding it may cause burn....you have to time everything according to the plants metabolism. I dont ever tea my plants till after the stretch and the budset has already happened....like 3 weeks after flowering. Sometimes I will add 1 or 2 cups to a gallon of water and tea the vegging plants...while Im teaing the flowering plants....but Im careful.

Your recipe for tea is a good start and great all around tea. Heres my standard tea

5 gallons dechlorinated or RO water
1 shot glass full of kelp meal
2 tablespoons blackstrap molassas
1 cup fresh worm castings (fresh from a local farm...complete with springtails)
1 shot glass full of earthjuice catalyst
1 shot glass full jurrasic acid ( humic acid )

I add my aquarium heater and keep it at 73 degrees for 30 hours bubbling like mad.
Go to the paint store and buy a box of paint bucket strainers and use them for your teabag. I suspend it above the bubbles.

Heres the vid....its pretty gross really...
Organic Bloom Tea - YouTube

 

[Cona]

Wow.....Vapedogg....we were both typing at the same time I think....whodathunkit

 

[Vapedogg223]

That's great! I just added in a link to a thread here showing brewers too!

+Reps bro! Too much help is always better than not enough!

 

[Cona]

Thanks man...here hit this..........hahaha

Cona