Does everyone flush? Outdoor grow

[jokerlola]

What kind of store bought water do you get? Is that cheaper than getting an RO filter?

I buy from a “Glacier” water vending machine, $2 for 5 gallons. Overall it would probably be cheaper, in the long run, to buy an RO system. In my case the tap water is so bad that it eats RO filters and membranes. We should have a new well certified in the next few months, that water is much better, ph of 7.0, 400 ppm dissolved solids, almost no iron, Boron, or salt, a little high on manganese.

What are the parameters if Glacier Water?

 

[Phytoplankton]

It’s run through a series of filters, including a carbon filter, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet sterilization. It’s pretty good, I used it when I used to mix up salt water for my reef tank.

 

[Tennessee Tim]

s well

What kind of store bought water do you get? Is that cheaper than getting an RO filter?

I am in Colorado (Denver area) Blue Spruce is the state tree so it's native and can live a long time here. It probably does best in the mountains but the neighbor's tree is over 60 years old and was here before houses were built.

The agronomist was answering a question about why lawns don't seem to grow around and under pine trees. He said that the common theory of dropped pine needles being acidic and acidifying the soil is a myth. He said the main reason grass doesn't grow under and around pine trees is because they block out most of the sun and steal most of the water from the surface around them. Also if the needles are not raked up they can be so dense as to smothering the grass. But, he said it's not because the needles are acidic.

I am going to have a challenge with this Harlequin plant. I actually planted it too late and it wasn't mature enough to start flowering until just now so frost may come before it is finished. I thought I was relatively safe planting it in the ground because the strain normally starts flowering early and finishes in less than 8 weeks. So I might have to build a temp greenhouse for it since I obviously can't bring it indoors like my other plants in pots.. Best of luck with the Harlequin, do you have any frost row cover materials? I have just draped it over large plants and weighed down the edges to escape cool nights and frost events in my gardens. Not sure if that is enough for you guys at a mile high, in the early fall. We seldom get a frost until November or even mid/late December some years. Sativa planted here, outdoors, usually ripen in early September, as the days just start to really get shorter significantly. I usually plant sativa about the middle to end of April.

 

[Emeraldo]

What are we flushing again???

We've gone thru this many times. There's absolutely no science to back this process up anywhere. If fact there's science that says its USELESS and detrimental.

Anecdotal evidence is NOT science.

And the science:

Flushing Trial - RX Green Technologies

Quoted from the article:

"Toward the end of the Cannabis flowering cycle, the plant starts to naturally senescence. Plants that are nearing the end of their life cycle will uptake fewer nutrients (thru roots) as they remobilize nutrients from other plant parts. This may explain why little difference was observed in the mineral content of flower flushed for different times."

Soooo what are we flushing??

Now there you go again, Bob! Hilarious broken record...

I'll say it again (as if we've not been around and around on it) for newbie benefit: Flushing the soil can be useful. For example to correct an overfert, maybe too much N.

No one is saying that "flushing" removes anything from the plant, or that flooding the plant right before harvest is a practice worth recommending.

Be well. Thanks for your recommendation of oyster shell...

 

[GrowNMo]

This post sparked a lot of interest and input. Thanks to all who participated. I did not flush at week 6 or the end. I was curious on what you all thought about the process. Good info on all sides. and the best absolutely best part was that no one was personally berated for their points of view. Rare today in many circles, but i believe it could be because we all share a common goal and how we get there is important but more importantly whatever suits us and the end result is what matters! Thank you!

 

[Diyandimitrov]

Bo,
Let's try again. I keep trying to find new ways to explain this to you. Why would you not be able to flush out salt? I don't mean natural mineral salts, although some of them can be moved out with the flowing water too, the salt that I mean is the non-nutritional plain old EDTA that is used to chelate synthetic nutes, one of the most soluble compounds known to man. Water instantly dissolves it and moving water removes it. It is simple physics.

So yes you can flush out this particular salt, and this particular salt has a very nasty habit of building up in the soil as a byproduct of using synthetic nutes, so there is a need to remove it, especially if you fertilize heavily. Letting it build up to the point that it is blocking the soil's ability to exchange nutrients with the roots, results in a salt lockout.

Soil works the way it does because soil has built into it the ability to hold onto salt ions, not just the mineral salts that we desire the soil to hold for the plant to use on the water only pass, but also this dreaded EDTA salt. The amount of salt ions the soil can capture is called the CEC, or the cation exchange capacity. The fact that soil has this capacity does not mean that it is "no flush" as you put it, it simply means that the soil has the capacity to hold a certain amount of charged ions (salts). As synthetic nutes become available this EDTA salt builds up and starts to take up all the ion holding spots in the soil, and over time diminishes the soil's ability to hold any of the beneficial "salts" because it is instead storing EDTA salt. When the soil fills up with this leftover nutrient debris and can no longer hold the needed mineral salts, the water only pass becomes useless in the feeding of the plant... all the plant can see is EDTA and we get what is referred to as a "salt lockout." It also hampers the fertilizer pass, because the plant can get the nutrient only via the fluid path, but not via contact between the soil and the roots, because the soil is only holding onto ions of EDTA salt. This is a real thing, and during the early days of synthetic nutes and indoor MJ cultivation we saw it a lot on these forums, and the very first bit of advice someone would get when showing us a picture of a salt lockout, was the recommendation to 3x flush the soil. This flush saved more grows than I can remember and back then flushing was the most common bit of advice given to the grower with a problem. Now due to the confusion that a few of you insist on perpetuating regarding the fantasized evils of flushing, fewer people these days are flushing these harmful salts away while they are told by the neo-experts that a plant dying at the end of starvation is a good thing. It truly is a remarkable time to be alive, with such experts out there giving us all the pontification we can stand, when in actuality nothing has changed. Flushing is still a thing and it still works every time it is done. It is not harmful to the plant or any microbes and fungi that happen to be nearby. All it does is cleanse the soil so that it can again hold the vital mineral salt ions.

If I use meloasses,sugar powder or honey for the last 2 weeks its gonna be even better then "just water" or its money wasted?

 

[Roy Growin]

I go by the mantra of let it grow - it doesn't need a ton of super-duper-grow-it-big chems
When the plant has flowered, it is not growing any more per se - it is ripening its fruit, like an apple
So the plant won't be using any nutrients (or molasses, etc), just the sugar/carbs in the leaves
There will inevitably be leaf in the bud, so using a chelating agent to mobilize nutes and thus shift them round the plant, then plain water, makes for cleaner tasting bud

 

[Diyandimitrov]

But I heared the shugar water will was thw salts better. I also hope with sugar honey or meloasses im going to feed thw microbes inside the soil and that will help for my next round of transplant plants in the same soil. So thats why I asked.

 

[Phytoplankton]

Molasses (or Sugar) feeds microbes in the soil, the microbes break down organic matter into nutrients that the plants can then utilize. Molasses does little for coco or hydro, since you're direct feeding the plants roots, there are really few microbes and there's nothing for the microbes to break down. Molasses is most helpful in organic type soil growing, although it can help in in soil grows where nutes are added. Just remember that the microbes numbers will spike in response to the sugar, but then crash as soon as the sugar is consumed. Same with chlorinated water, it will kill microbes, but by the next day the numbers are usually back up to the baseline level.

Flushing to remove accumulated salts/minerals is necessary in some cases. Flushing at the end of the grow really does nothing. Plant take up what they need and store it, so it's unlikely to help anything (according to numerous studies). If you want to do anything, once the plant is ready for harvest put it in total darkness for 2-3 days prior to harvest, the plant will use up accumulated sugars in the leaves/plant. It can't make more sugar without photosynthesis, which of course is impossible in total darkness.

 

[Diyandimitrov]

I'm growing in soil so you kinda answer my question.can you use other words why I shoud lived in the total darkness for 3 days ? Im not exactly sure I understand everything.

Molasses (or Sugar) feeds microbes in the soil, the microbes break down organic matter into nutrients that the plants can then utilize. Molasses does little for coco or hydro, since you're direct feeding the plants roots, there are really few microbes and there's nothing for the microbes to break down. Molasses is most helpful in organic type soil growing, although it can help in in soil grows where nutes are added. Just remember that the microbes numbers will spike in response to the sugar, but then crash as soon as the sugar is consumed. Same with chlorinated water, it will kill microbes, but by the next day the numbers are usually back up to the baseline level.

Flushing to remove accumulated salts/minerals is necessary in some cases. Flushing at the end of the grow really does nothing. Plant take up what they need and store it, so it's unlikely to help anything (according to numerous studies). If you want to do anything, once the plant is ready for harvest put it in total darkness for 2-3 days prior to harvest, the plant will use up accumulated sugars in the leaves/plant. It can't make more sugar without photosynthesis, which of course is impossible in total darkness.

 

[Diyandimitrov]

U also water wirh chlorine water and like u said I killing my microbes everyday but I didnt know they recovery that fast. I also using syntetic food like 20-20-20 stuff or 0-54-32 and I dont feed my microbes trought thw whole grow but it wont hurt. If I using sugar water or melloases after 6 week of flowering I think. If there are any microbes alive still

 

[Phytoplankton]

I'm growing in soil so you kinda answer my question.can you use other words why I shoud lived in the total darkness for 3 days ? Im not exactly sure I understand everything.

You only put them in darkness when the trichromes are ready and the plant is ready to harvest. Before you harvest you out the plant in darkness for 2-3 days to use up the sugars in the leaves. The more sugar in the leaves the more harsh the smoke.

 

[Diyandimitrov]

You only put them in darkness when the trichromes are ready and the plant is ready to harvest. Before you harvest you out the plant in darkness for 2-3 days to use up the sugars in the leaves. The more sugar in the leaves the more harsh the smoke.

Thats something I didn't know till now hope you are right im gonna try it this harvest to see what will gonna happened.