OK. I have 4 outdoor plants I have to water from the bottom. They are a little experiment where I planted them in native yard soil with dried pine needles for aeration. The water just runs thru so I place them in a tote water from the top but then let them sit and soak up the water from the bottom for about 30 minutes. The plants are doing great, better than I expected!
Does everyone flush? Outdoor grow
- Thread starter GrowNMo
- Start date
I used to try to "flush" nutrient salts off of expanded clay media after (DWC) grows, years ago. Warm water didn't do it. Boiling water didn't, either, lol.
That is interesting, in my area pine needles have a sterilizing effect on the soil.
Super cool dude
I read awhile ago that is a garden myth and started using them in my flower beds and the flowers have never looked better. I think green pine needles are acidic but dry ones are inert.
Tennessee Tim
Well-Known Member
I quit using synthetic nutrients many years ago. I have seen no benefit to "flushing" organic healthy plants, grown in soil or in mostly soilless mixes(with copious amounts of added compost). If I were to use the chemical industries by products and creations, in my gardens or especially in container growing ,I would flush the C--- out! I choose not to eat or smoke poisons, often called fertilizers by entrepreneurs or big industry, that are sometimes contaminated with heavy metals or other chemicals , rather than what is listed as the product. I do not want super buds created by science labs. I just want good clean Cannabis buds. I wash my plants at harvest to remove dust and debris, not foreign chemical compounds, made in a lab or factory. You can grow huge, hard buds with hydroponics and chemical applications. I don't want them. I want a clean, natural product, like what God gave us and people have used for thousands of years! I grow nice large buds and never need to flush anything, that I did not put in the toilet! Suit yourself! I understand, that many people want to wring every bit of growth potential out of a grow and don't really care how they do it. That's OK! I started growing in about 1968 and have tried just about everything, most people have tried, over the last 50 years. Indoors and outside in Nature. I have used dozens of fertilizers, chemical products and natural sources ,alike. I have flushed and not flushed, trying both for years long experiments. I can see advantages, especially ease of obtaining(purchasing) nutes, from the non organic sources. I just see more advantages for me, using organics. No "flushing " needed or useful. Organics using living nutrients, found in good compost, actually buffers PH , somewhat, and guards against other imbalances as well. I never had more confidence in the truth of clean, good naturally grown herbs, being best for me. My compost cost me only my labor, as well, and is locally farm sourced at my home! I do, purchase limestone, azomite, and fish/kelp extracts, to supplement my compost and provide any missing trace elements/ph issues. Happy gardening and best wishes , however you choose to grow herbs!
ITheNorth
Well-Known Member
I have to disagree. Flushing is a must if you want to enjoy smoke that doesn't make you cough. I have done tests with 2 clones of the exact same mother. One flushed.. o e not flushed. What a difference!
Tennessee Tim
Well-Known Member
I have used pine needles in my work as a landscaper and at my home for decades. Pine needles are acidic even when dried. Green needles or leaves/fresh wood chips, rob the soil of nutrients(locks them up) as they break down, at first. Dried pine needles, especially, partially composted, are similar to other products, like leaves and composted ground bark. They make excellent mulch, after composting or aging, though on the acidic side of things. Soil ph, best, should be considered, when using any acidic mulch material, for plants that do not prefer acidic conditions. Green pine needles are often used in a natural remedy tea. The proliferation of so called "master" gardener programs has made "experts" of tens of thousands of small time, home gardeners, that pass on all kinds of half truths or misinterpretations of science or observations. I am not against people taking classes and studying, I did and still do, but a minimum 25 to 30 year working/professional experience along with study, should be required to earn the title "master" gardener! Maybe, 50 years, at home gardening experience, might suffice for some, well read and observant gardeners to earn the title Master Gardener. I am not a "Master Gardener". only an experienced one , learning more every year! Whenever, I see the title "Master Gardener" claimed by an author, I discount the article, as a possible hack. I do not categorize all who took classes as hacks! Only the ones who claim they(classes) made them Masters of Gardening. Best wishes for all you aspiring gardeners, of all ages, that want to become the best you can be! Take the classes! Just don't push the same hype the schools/institutions pushed about being Master gardeners. Practice and vast experience are required, more so, than a few classes! When you die,(if you live long enough) maybe some will say, you were a master gardener. I hope, you will have inspired them to work at gardening. Then you have done something extra, and real good with your garden efforts and learning. A master teacher/advocate of gardening is something to hope to earn as a title on your obituary, and it may be true! Schools don't make "masters", collected experience may and often does.
Good info!
flushing vs no flushing ? another debate question for years There is data to prove both right or wrong
Used to always do a two week flush inwhich I was starving my plants --years ago flush and no "n" inflower was a debate
here is what I used to do: use enzyme's during grow - for a two week flush- feed plant lightly (1-2 x's in a 7day period) and then let plant "dry" and then in last week use a good "fish soil conditioner" Fish Shit.com Generally for flushing you need to flush a 5 gallon pot one need 2x's the amount of water 5 gallon pot needs 10 gallons of water within 2 weeks from harvest (way to much)
Now; I just use Fish Shit during flush the last 2 weeks beforer harvest this is for an organic grow
Chemical grows one might consider flushing agents for removal of salts, but have heard that flushuing agents are really not needed
Go to Canna Crib's.com for vurtal look in to many commerical grow nothing is never mentioned about flushing ( there are about 7 commerical grow tour's (these are loaded with information)
If your smoke is "harsh" probably chemicalsalts in it == or ==a dark ash instead of a gray colored ash consider re-thinking flushing
Used to always do a two week flush inwhich I was starving my plants --years ago flush and no "n" inflower was a debate
here is what I used to do: use enzyme's during grow - for a two week flush- feed plant lightly (1-2 x's in a 7day period) and then let plant "dry" and then in last week use a good "fish soil conditioner" Fish Shit.com Generally for flushing you need to flush a 5 gallon pot one need 2x's the amount of water 5 gallon pot needs 10 gallons of water within 2 weeks from harvest (way to much)
Now; I just use Fish Shit during flush the last 2 weeks beforer harvest this is for an organic grow
Chemical grows one might consider flushing agents for removal of salts, but have heard that flushuing agents are really not needed
Go to Canna Crib's.com for vurtal look in to many commerical grow nothing is never mentioned about flushing ( there are about 7 commerical grow tour's (these are loaded with information)
If your smoke is "harsh" probably chemicalsalts in it == or ==a dark ash instead of a gray colored ash consider re-thinking flushing
Tennessee Tim
Well-Known Member
I agree! However healthy soils using natural compost a s fertilizer does not require flushing
I agree, mostly! Except that the early days were well before the internet or forums existed and we had already learned about the need to flush salts, at least by the 1970's. Also, healthy soil/soilless mixes, using natural living compost as fertilizer, do not require flushing. Only when you start an unnatural grow process with industrial chemicals, does that usually become helpful. Field grown crops suffer from salts build up from chemical applications. Good luck with your grows, however you do them. I flushed plants when I used chemicals. I have no need , any longer, with my methods. My biggest threat is from insect eggs that may have survived in the compost. I know how to deal with those problems and it rarely occurs and can be controlled organically as well. My yields, may not be as much, as my great hydroponic or chemical grown plants, but they are natural, clean and healthy, these days, with good flavor/terpines and plenty of THC! I also spend less $$ growing them. Less heavy metals or chemical contaminants in my smoke/edibles, makes me happy! Also, if you reuse grow media, be very careful of chemical and excessive buildup of minerals/elements, that may occur, sometimes, from the water used, alone! I have very good well water ( makes great beer!), but just a bit high in copper and acidic. When I did chemicals, I ph adjusted and aerated the water, now, My water PH no longer makes a measurable difference, for me. Living compost, biologically buffers ph swings or the plants abilities to overcome a bit of ph, out of range, for the plants grown. Of course, I still adjust ph in my grow media after mixing it. I just worry less about ph in my water, now. Worm castings, compost from diverse materials and living biological agents take care of my plants and me. Chemical/unnatural, heavy Yield versus natural yield, is the choice, that may have merit, according to your priorities. My hydro/chemical plants tended to heavier, denser buds/yield(sometimes splendidly heavy), though often times, my organic yields do about the same or better( the buds are always healthy and beautiful). The choice is yours. Use good organic techniques and no need to flush. Use Chemicals and flush. Both have strong points for different growers!
I got the info that dried, aged pine needles are mostly inert and that it is a myth that they are acidic from a long time agronomist and botanist at the Denver Botanic Gardens several years ago. After that I started using dried pine needles in flower beds and vegetable beds with great results. This is the first time I have ever used it with cannabis plants. I wound up with a few extra clones that a friend couldn't take so I decided to experiment with growing 3 of them in my native backyard soil + some natural leaf compost and pine needles for aeration and those plants are doing better than the plants that are in Sohum Living Soil mixed with Paonia (The Bomb) soil that have been re-amended. I also have 4 tomato plants growing in the same mix and they are doing great as well. I also planted a Harlequin plant directly in the ground, under the pine tree with it's pine needles as a mulch around the base and that plant is literally growing like a weed.
The pine needles are from my neighbor's Blue Spruce tree that hangs over my fence and drops needles on the ground in my yard.
Diatomacious
Well-Known Member
Your science says there was little difference in the mineral content of the flower even when flushed for differing amounts of time. Doesn't sound detrimental to me.
It probably doesn’t do any harm, but it also does no good.
I think that we are talking about two different “flushes” one that can take place any time in the growing cycle, when salts and/or nutrients build up in the soil (I’m talking soils only) to the point where they either cause lockout or they’re at toxic levels. That flush removes salts etc. from the soil, basically re-setting it. The other flush is at the end of the growing cycle a couple weeks before harvest, that flush is supposed to remove excess salt/minerals etc from the plant. That has been shown to be ineffective. One removes salts from soil, the other was thought to remove the same from plants.
I had terrible issues with soil grows in fabric pots, my water ph is 7.8-8.0, with a dissolved solids count of 1200-2400 ppm dissolved solids right out of the tap! When it got bad you could see a white crust on the surface of the soil and the outside of the pot when it dried. Coco/hydro was not a possibility, and flushing at least once in the cycle is necessary. (Usually twice). Now I use store bought water, many fewer issues.
Diatomacious
Well-Known Member
Just depends on the grower and how they fertilize. I still am toying with the idea of flushing at the end of the bloom cycle but just to decrease the available nutrient prior to harvest. Depending on how you fertilize and what with a small flush at the end can cause an increase in plant health (greening up). I don't think you need to send the deluge but a good watering through with a cup or two of runoff for the last week of bloom never hurts in my opinion. Like your science says "little difference in mineral content for differing amounts of flush" or basically the plant has already absorbed all the nutrient it needs by this point in time so adding more nutrient is unnecessary.
HOW TRUE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tennessee Tim
Well-Known Member
He was mostly correct, (over simplified just a bit)pine needles are on the acidic side of the PH thing, and make great mulch for plants , especially, Blueberries, hollies, azaleas, etc. Spruce trees are in the pine family but different from other members of the greater family of Pine trees, in several ways. Your soil ph, in many areas out west, is on the alkaline side and likely, most ornamental plants would benefit from slightly, acidic mulch. I use pine needles extensively here, but blue spruce seldom live more than a handful of years .(people plant them here and they usually die quickly) I believe, that they would be good mulch material, when dried/aged, as many plants leaves, needles or bark make good mulch properly "dried" out. Experimentation is good, and gardens soil conditions and water vary so much from area to area! In my part of the world soil ph is acidic, normally, and so is the water. That makes things different for those that have alkaline water or soil, as compared to my area. Biological activity helps to overcome some imbalance in nature for plants, either way!. Pine needles are likely to make great mulch most everywhere. The myths about pine needles being too acidic for good mulch, likely took hold, because pine trees can grow in very poor, compacted soils or in small cracks in the rocks, that are hostile to many other plants. Often, those locations are called pine barrens. Pines often overcome very bad growing conditions! Pines (white pine for example ) have a clearly observable, symbiotic relationship with beneficial organisms around their roots and in their needles/mulch built up under the trees. Best wishes for your Harlequin plant to be big and delicious!
What kind of store bought water do you get? Is that cheaper than getting an RO filter?
I am in Colorado (Denver area) Blue Spruce is the state tree so it's native and can live a long time here. It probably does best in the mountains but the neighbor's tree is over 60 years old and was here before houses were built.
The agronomist was answering a question about why lawns don't seem to grow around and under pine trees. He said that the common theory of dropped pine needles being acidic and acidifying the soil is a myth. He said the main reason grass doesn't grow under and around pine trees is because they block out most of the sun and steal most of the water from the surface around them. Also if the needles are not raked up they can be so dense as to smothering the grass. But, he said it's not because the needles are acidic.
I am going to have a challenge with this Harlequin plant. I actually planted it too late and it wasn't mature enough to start flowering until just now so frost may come before it is finished. I thought I was relatively safe planting it in the ground because the strain normally starts flowering early and finishes in less than 8 weeks. So I might have to build a temp greenhouse for it since I obviously can't bring it indoors like my other plants in pots.
What kind of store bought water do you get? Is that cheaper than getting an RO filter?
I buy from a “Glacier” water vending machine, $2 for 5 gallons. Overall it would probably be cheaper, in the long run, to buy an RO system. In my case the tap water is so bad that it eats RO filters and membranes. We should have a new well certified in the next few months, that water is much better, ph of 7.0, 400 ppm dissolved solids, almost no iron, Boron, or salt, a little high on manganese.
I buy from a “Glacier” water vending machine, $2 for 5 gallons. Overall it would probably be cheaper, in the long run, to buy an RO system. In my case the tap water is so bad that it eats RO filters and membranes. We should have a new well certified in the next few months, that water is much better, ph of 7.0, 400 ppm dissolved solids, almost no iron, Boron, or salt, a little high on manganese.
