From 400w ballast light to 1000w LED to disaster: Why?

[Johnboy1234]

I have been growing 1-2 plants for myself for quite a while now. I have always grown them using the bulb and ballast system and have had no problems.

BUT recently a friend gave me a 1000w LED light Model GW-AQM55B so I replaced my 400w ballast one with the new 1000w LED. At 1st my plant lapped it up (approx 3-4 days) and then over a period of approx 3 weeks the leaves started to droop, the plant's branches started growing really spindly and it started to die. So I changed the light back to my old system, and almost instantaneously the plant is looking great now.

It is a very basic setup, the LED light was hanging approx 18 inches above the top of the plant in a pot of store dirt in a warmish spare room, can anyone please explain to me why this has happened?

Theoretically .....the opposite should have happened and I would prefer to use the LED light as it is safer and cheaper to run.

Any help would be much appreciated. ;-)

 

[TorturedSoul]

At a guess - which is all I can supply, without having any information about your LED panel - I'd say that your "1000w" LED is nowhere near 1000 watts. What's the brand and model number?

 

[Nick420Guy]

I will try to explain this and I am sure there will be others along shortly to correct me if I'm wrong. LOL You were running a 400w HID and replaced it with the LED. That LED I'm going to guess is drawing around 100 watts from the wall. I think it was just the shock of 1- completely different spectrum of light and a drop in intensity as I doubt that LED can come close to the output of a 400w HID.

 

[Papageno]

Yeah 2 things there which both were pointed out.


1) Wattage is a misnomer in LED. You have to rely on lab test results which are hard to find. Ussually they treat incorrectly on purpose and lie about it.

2) Spectrum is the real problem here.

I have downsized wattage without issue. But LED lights actually have a lot of potential problems. They have to be done correctly. Many of the first few generations are garbage and get passed around by people.

And wattage on an LED is totaly stupid to talk about as compared to a HID. LEDs use dramatically less energy. The conversion of watts to lumens is Apple's and Oranges. Since HID is the standard they must try to compare and say our light is equivalent to...and they always over state it.

What they put on the side of the box is some stupid advertisement just like regular light bulbs that run 5W and say they are as good as 100W. That is based on a lumens test in a light chamber.

The full spectrum awesome bulbs like described in the link in my sig provide impressive artificial light and patterning. Advanced hood design as described in the hood link also helps with penetration ...a possible 3rd issue.

So they did some bogus test and said this thing works great at 2.5 ft directly under the fixture. They say it works just like a HID bulb which has been developed for decades.

There are some LED designs that are fantastic. But it is easy to make garbage and test it incorrectly and say it is great.

You get what you pay for in lighting.

 

[Hammerback0]

I use LED lighting, cheap ones at that, and I have to agree with both posters above me. I have a Ygrow brand, 600W white LED, it actually produces 150W, I also use a blurple “full spectrum” LED light rates from the manufacturer as 1200W, I’ve not been able to find actual draw from the wall on this light, but it’s no where even CLOSE to advertised watts. I started out with these, so I’ve been able to adapt to them and make them work, when budget permits I want to get a Quantum Board. I only grow 4 plants at a time in a 4’X2’ tent. If I were you, I’d stick to what you know, if your old set up suits your purpose, stick with it. There are great LEDs out there, like Black Dog brand, but the price is up there. (IMO I don’t have a couple extra grand layin around for lighting lmao)

 

[Papageno]

When gen 3 was comming the gen 1 were being sold for dirt online. I picked up 2 Mars Hydro gen 1 that work great for veg. I wouldn't waste my time using them in bloom since I have a propper dimmable 1000W with top line HID for bloom light.

Make things easy on yourself and use them the other way. It likely is good enough for veg. Or at least starting ...

 

[P013onEr]

My LED light is Chinese cheap one. 600W .but actual power maybe 125W. the seller told me to hang it 40cm or 16" . maybe the spectrum runs well in that distance.

so I use it to veg, and 400w HPS to flower

 

[TorturedSoul]

lumens

Lumen... are irrelevant to everything other than the human eyeball. But, other than that, I agree with pretty much everything you and the other posters have stated.

I was once confused by sellers who stated that their product was (for example) capable of producing the same amount of light as a 1kW HPS. I don't mean the complete "con artist" ad copy, but the products that range somewhere between those and the top-shelf brands/models. Turns out, some of them actually can produce the intensity they advertise - but only in a rather limited footprint. Depending on choice of lenses and such, even a relatively weak light source can produce some fairly intense light, but mainly just in a spot under the panel. Kind of the opposite of panels that have lenses intended to spread the output over too large of a footprint - but still a problem.

I can envision a scenario in which a person buys an LED panel to replace their HID, one that is underpowered... They set it up, fire it up... And it is too much for the plants directly under the panel - and too little for the ones around the perimeter of the grow. The grower is left wondering whether the LED is too strong or too weak (or... both? )... Seems like this would be pretty frustrating, because the plants suffer.

The "apples vs. oranges" comment nailed it, methinks. Keep that in mind, treat your LED product (whichever one it is) as an entirely new thing. Or borrow a PAR meter and chart your grow space with the LED hung at various heights - and repeat as/when your plants start filling in, because it might turn out that the penetrative ability you've relied on in the past with your HID just isn't there.

 

[Papageno]

Yeah I get lazy when I am high. So like...I am lazy.

 

[moderngroroom]

I agree with torturegrow im pretty sure your friend didnt have good luck with it and said here u can have it im betting you its not a true 1000watt led prolly more like 150watt them chinese lights are tempting to buy bc of cost but u get what u pay for i can throw a light together and say hey 2000watts of light but its prolly pulling over 200watts max from the wall outlet and yes itll grow a plant but not good source of light.. idk how they get these wattage numbers on some of these lights but there fucking up a good thing in the led movement

 

[OG1969]

Based of the numbers you put up the light only pulls 180 to 200w max. That will get you a week or so into flower but not much more. Until you get into the higher end led lights you really have to look at all the values. Fluence is running 600 plus watts on the spydrx to compete with a 1000 watt double ended hps . it doesn't give led a bad name the comsumer needs to do their homework. I know the light was given to you but I would throw the 400 watter back up there with it.
Peace OG

 

[Johnboy1234]

AH Thanks folks that explains it to me, obviously it is a cheap Chinese one and probably is only putting out only 100w, it's bloody blinding bright though.

I guess I will have to throw out the LED and stick with my HID setup

Thank you for your help people, much appreciated.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Pick up a Kill A Watt device (cheap) and check t see how many watts it's consuming. As mentioned, this will be only part of the equation - but it'll definitely tell you something useful.

 

[Alienpus]

FWIW, my math tells me it draws between 178w and 238w at the wall.

 

[OG1969]

FWIW, my math tells me it draws between 178w and 238w at the wall.

Bingo exactly what I said by googling the modle number. I wouldn't toss it I would use it as supplemental lighting or in veg. Will see if I can find it but there were a bunch of college boys that came up with a conversion from lumen to par will see if I can find it and link it for you.
Peace OG

 

[moderngroroom]

Told ya buddy lol

 

[Hammerback0]

I think my Chinese light is rated 1200W because it has 120, 10W LEDs. BUT, I think they rate them 10W because they are capable of handling 10W, but they are getting a fraction of that. Sorry if that is confusing, just my theory as to why my particular China made light is shit. I may just keep my ladies in veg with my current lighting, and order a QB when I am able to afford it. Not taking away from the other lights, old school is probably better, but cooling my welfare tent would be an issue.

 

[moderngroroom]

I use the optic 4 and has been a killer light and works flawlessly they come with a 5 yr warranty no questions asked. There 500$ but well worth the money and later on u can get another one

 

[Hammerback0]

I use the optic 4 and has been a killer light and works flawlessly they come with a 5 yr warranty no questions asked. There 500$ but well worth the money and later on u can get another one

I’ll check that out!

 

[moderngroroom]

Yup there eqivalent to a 600 watt hps. 415 watts of light output from the wall. They also come with a built in timer and everything mine comes on exactly at right time and off the right time its a high quality light