Help me get on track with Fox Farm nutes please!

[Six9]

Four sativas 38 days old and 12"-14 tall. I have 6 feet of usable closet space, I think I need to switch to flower soon but am a damn moron on this feeding thing! I transplanted into five gallon fabric too soon (4 nodes high). Watering using the 20% runoff method leaves pots wet for days. Circulation and drainage is good, just too much pot for plant size, but hopefully that's changed now.

I've been using the 20% runoff method for watering and testing runoff, 6.2-6.4. Because days were passing and they were still cool/moist using first knuckle method, I figured I had to feed them or the schedule would slip or whatever, so I was topping them off with about a gallon each nute water with 1tsp grow big, big bloom, and last one with 1tsp tiger bloom. Nute burn, clawing and twisted leaves. Damn it.

I flushed two days ago using about ten gallons ph water and saw pretty heavy runoff. Old growth has signs of nute burn but seems okay, new growth has slightly yellow tips but doesn't seem to be getting worse.

Questions:

On feeding in general, do you use as much water as you would for a 20% runoff regular watering session? Meaning if it takes five gallons to produce runoff, do you use that much nuted water for a feeding? I'm confused, if I'm getting nute burn using only a gallon and 1tsp each of the trio, will it get worse if mix up enough for five gallons? Or is it beneficial to have runoff when feeding? I suppose it was the frequency of feeding not the dosage that got me nute burn?


To get back on track and considering I need to enter flower soon, what week on FF schedule should I use, should I flush, feed as in veg still or flush and enter flower? I hope all this makes sense, please help

Sunshine Mix #4 and 30% perlite, four five gallon pots, 80% sativa, pics taken yesterday, new growth shows less cupping (or whatever it's called) today:

 

[PTSD 4 ME]

Nutes really don't have to be that confusing.... Each watering you do you want to have right around 6.5 ph and 20% runoff on each watering. The container should have instructions on when to feed. Some want every feeding while others want it every other feeding . This includes when doing nutes. Now if you have just began nutes and are getting a burn then just cut them in half and slowly build back up to full strength. I slowing weaned my plant off the veg nutes once I flipped and started flowering nutes the week before I flipped by week 2 or 3 of flower I was completely off vegging nutes, basically after the stretch came and went. The cupping you are referring to is canoeing, that's whats happening to your leafs and that is caused by heat.. the plants leafs are trying to shade themselves... raise your lights or increase air movement to fix that. Your plants look good, fix the nute burn now and have that sorted by the time you flip. A bit of nute burn is not the end of the world. I would be more concerned by the temps....

Figure out the Nute issue before flower.... Now during veg let the mistakes be made, have it all ironed out before you flip!! That's when it counts the most.



Just read what you had again... If your using ro between feedings that might be your issue. Just use H2O between feedings. Let her breath a bit.....

 

[Six9]

Thanks, so 20 % runoff for feeding too?

Curious about the canoeing, first time they've done it and temps are 75f w/50 -60 % humidity. I have a 180 x 5w Mars LED around 24 " away, it's powerful think I should raise it? I was thinking today it may be too much for mylar lined 3x3x8 closet. I can order a 700w version to have on hand, better be safe than sorry

 

[PTSD 4 ME]

Yep when you feed it should be a complete watering also... Im not an expert on LED's it seems like its a distance away but if it continues to canoe and your environment is such then you need to back it off... That seems like a lot of damn light, lol I tone my 600 watt MH down to 300W during veg not till late do I go to 75% (450) and then 100% during flowering. That's a totally different light tho....

 

[Six9]

Thanks friend. Any LED user thoughts on light being too much? I thought the canoeing was because I had a fan hitting them 24/7, moved fans to circulate around them three days ago.

 

[jojo677]

I just checked out your light, and you should be fine. It is a 900W model, and you are probably drawing around 540W real power (my guess based on my 300W Mars LED). In a 3 x 3' area, that would give you about 60W per square foot, which is pretty good. Also, I've found it's good to use the manufacturer's recommendations on distance above the plants. It mentions 18-24" in veg and 12-18" in flower, which works for me (I'm usually at the low end).

I just saw that you're using Sunshine mix, which is technically a soilless medium. Soooo, you should be running in a hydro pH range: 5.6-6.2, with 5.8-5.9 being optimal for most growers. This would explain many of the issues you're seeing. Don't worry, I learned the hard way too, and at least you caught it earlier than I did!

 

[Six9]

I just checked out your light, and you should be fine. It is a 900W model, and you are probably drawing around 540W real power (my guess based on my 300W Mars LED). In a 3 x 3' area, that would give you about 60W per square foot, which is pretty good. Also, I've found it's good to use the manufacturer's recommendations on distance above the plants. It mentions 18-24" in veg and 12-18" in flower, which works for me (I'm usually at the low end).

I just saw that you're using Sunshine mix, which is technically a soilless medium. Soooo, you should be running in a hydro pH range: 5.6-6.2, with 5.8-5.9 being optimal for most growers. This would explain many of the issues you're seeing. Don't worry, I learned the hard way too, and at least you caught it earlier than I did!

I did raise the light a bit but hmm, PH.. a fine point, I read at least twice how many problems are PH related, tricky stuff that can show (to a noob) as something else. Say I've been high (hehe) since transplanting, my first check was at 6.7 a couple weeks ago and my last was 6.4. Think I should water or nute water and at what PH? Ready for watering tomorrow me thinks

 

[PTSD 4 ME]

Just water at 6.5 and FF is pretty balanced you should be ok. There is forgiveness on the 6.5 that's just ideal.

 

[jojo677]

Are you using the soil or hydro version of the FF nutes?

I'm not really sure if this changes what pH you should be running at, but your medium technically is a soiless medium, so it should be in the hydro range. I think 6.5 is too high, since Sunshine mix is mostly peat moss and perlite.

I'd flush for your next watering, and begin with nutes in the correct range for your next watering. That should solve some issues!

 

[Six9]

I'm using soil version but think I should still be in hydro range, read that in a sunshine/FF post. think I should flush low like 5.5?

Edit.. I just flushed one with the worst canoeing, 6.9 runoff holy moly. Okay I'm on a mission thanks friend. I'm gonna flush with 5.5 and again with lite nutes next time.

 

[jojo677]

Well you should flush until you get the runoff pH you want. I would flush at the low end of the range, 5.6 or 5.5 should be fine. So keep flushing! It's better to get it into range in one day so they'll recover faster. Though I have heard you should only drop the pH a max of 1 per day, so you'd be best dropping it until you get to about 5.8-6.0.

Stay on top of pH and it will solve many of your issues. I went through my entire first grow not knowing I should be in the hydro range, so good thing you caught it now!

 

[Six9]

Sounds good I thought I was good but only checked runoff twice now that I think about it. Possibly Cal Mag and not letting tap sit (I have very good tap 45ish ppm), other than that nit sure how runoff got so high, was watering at 6. Def need to get it handled before switching to flower. Thanks gents I just flushed all we'll see

 

[PTSD 4 ME]

Snap I missed u were soilless............

 

[Six9]

Snap I missed u were soilless............

There are so many variables to this, it's art and science combined. I need to be thinkin about light distance every day and your feedback gets me there thanks

 

[Six9]

I flushed two nights ago with plenty of 5.5 water, as expected not much in new growth yesterday they had the overwatered look, but perked up this morning and looking good. The Canoeing new growth is opening up and older leaves that exibited several PH problem signs are looking good:


I admit to treating watering and handling like a chore, moving from one pot to the next like an assembly line worker. I'll be taking time to look at each plant individually, and will definitely be checking runoff PH every other watering. Helps to understand a feeding is a watering, with 20% runoff a good thing.

 

[jojo677]

Glad you got it sorted out! You shouldn't expect much recovery from any of the older leaves, they'll be permanently damaged, so you just have to keep an eye on the new growth.

I know what you mean about it being a chore. Now that you have the pH in line, it should be easier, with the plants all acting similarly. Also, since you know your pH going in, and check your pH coming out every once and awhile, it should stabilize.

They're looking great, keep it up!

 

[Ripples]

I grow in a soilless mixture and "MY" plants like the PH at 6.2-6.3....... Each strain is different..... Below is the FF Charts.... Try one and see how it works and try the other? Read the top and it will say soil and soilless and the other says Hydro.... Hope this helps.... btw (tsp)=teaspoon The small one!!