Hmmm
- Thread starter MedicalMe
- Start date
shugs420
420 Member
Its common to see Yellowing near the end of flower I wouldn't worry about it lets you know they are using up all the nutrients ( better smoke in the end )
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
although common, this is more than just a fading. Many late grow deficiencies, especially across multiple grows can be attributed to small mistakes made early or throughout the grow. As the buds are in their final stages and production changes to producing the oils that will be filling the trichomes, the chemical needs of the plant intensifies. We can see that you are giving heavy nutes with the burning at the leaf tips but also seeing this sign of deficiency in the top leaves tells you that this is a non-mobile deficiency, ie it is not something that is generally stored in the plant and able to move around... this is something that needs to be coming in with the nutes right now, but it isn't. Heavy metals are usually the cause of these types of deficiencies and many of these have funny pH requirements to break out of the chemical bonds they are in and become available to the plant. It is here at the end of the grow that you really need to be sure that you are sweeping across the entire pH range so as to be able to pick up these trace elements as they become available. This is why I am not a fan of the popular advice to always adjust pH to 6.5 and why I advocate for 6.3 If continued across the entire grow, blocking out the 6.3-6.5 range can easily cause these sorts of problems near the end.
- Thread starter
- #4
Everyone, thanks. I thought it might be pretty typical towards the end of the grow, but maybe not. I don't think it's nute burn, as I'm pretty conservative about this - this is an auto. But there's always room for learning. Flushed this plant today (poured through 2 gallons of PH corrected water, a gallon of water about an hour apart, 3 gallon pots), but I've got two others that are blooming and S/B ready to chop in two weeks or less. However, same deal: yellowing top-most leaves. Watered those two with PH corrected water (6%) along with 1 tsp Fox Farms Big Bloom in a gallon of water.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Well, the burned tips on the newest growth is a pretty clear indication of over nute... but its not like it is serious or anything... it is the normal bit of tip burn that someone pushing their plants with a strong nute program would be expected to see. The purists, who want to see pristine plants will tell you to back off on the nutes and shame on you for doing this, and furthermore you should probably flush... but my response to you is, good job! You bought those nutes and developed the roots to be able to use them, so by all means do so.
But please note that I saw two separate and distinct things going on with your plants at the top... that strong fertilizing as well as a deficiency that I have recognized to be more common than it used to be, because today for some reason people are pH adjusting to 6.5 throughout the grow. You asked if it might be something you were doing since you have seen it across several grows, and after struggling with the same exact question a couple of years ago, I figured out what I was doing wrong and now offer the benefit of that experience to you in my explanation.
Sounds like you are pretty well on top of things and are going to have a great harvest! Congratulations and I wish you a good cure.
- Thread starter
- #6
Aha. It might be that Tiger Bloom is too much for autos - it's 2-8-4. Might be Fox Farm's Big Bloom would be better? It's 0-.05-.07 . . . I was mixed up earlier. What I've been using during blooming is Tiger Bloom Extra Strength 2-8-4, not Fox Farm's Big Bloom. Maybe I'd better dial things back .
Tiger Bloom suggests 2-3 tsp. to a gallon of water every other watering. I've been using 1 tsp. in a gallon of water every other. Fox Farms calls for 4 TBS. per gallon of water every other watering. What think ye?
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Interesting that you are not following their recommended schedule and that you are not using both the TB and the BB together. You might want to download their feeding chart instead of the directions on the side of the bottle that don't show you how to increase the amount of nutes weeks 5 and 6, throwing everything at the plants, and then start dialing it back toward the end. The BB is probably where the nutes are that you are missing too and it is very advantageous to use large amounts of it all through the grow. Now the problem is starting to come a little more in focus, yes? Keep in mind too that the FF suite of nutrients are meant to work together in varying amounts so as to optimize your grow per the appropriate stage the plant is in. The 3 solubles are even better ways to help dial in the flowering period, from initiating crazy amounts of buds to develop in the beginning, to really packing on the resin at the end. If you follow their carefully designed system to the letter, you can't help but grow outstanding product.
- Thread starter
- #8
Didn't know about their schedule. Thank you! I'll absolutely check this out. You'd think with all the research I do on the Net, I would've run across it by now. Oh, well. Onward!
- Thread starter
- #9
Okay, found it. Didn't realize we're supposed to use GB, TB, and BB in conjunction. For autos, what do you think about cutting the recommended amounts of each nute in half?
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
very much against the idea... this elevates the "experts" on the forums who advise such a thing above the scientists who designed the stuff. Ask yourself this: what incentive would the good folks at FoxFarms have to give you bad advice and have you work with their nutes for 3 months just to grow crap weed? They want you to have the best crop ever so you buy more of their products and tell people how good they are. You got to trust someone in life...
I have another new grower doing an experiment to prove just that in his present grow. I have challenged him to follow the FF instructions to the letter. He appears to be having a very good grow, as I knew he would.
Autos are veraciously hungry. Feed them. Strongly. A little touch of burning at the leaf tips is not such a bad thing, if your intent was to put your plants into superdrive with your nutes.... that is why we buy nutes isn't it, knowing that the soil alone could grow these plants just fine? I know there are purists out there who will freak over this advice... to each his own. To my way of thinking, if I spend $100 on nutes, I want to see a $100 improvement in my plants, so I know I am pushing them a bit.
Think about it this way too... FF labs recommends to water with nutes only every other time, supplying pH adjusted water inbetween. Is this not already 50%? It is ... that water only watering picks up the nutes that were unused on the last wet/dry cycle and gives them a second shot... at about 1/4 strength inside the container. The scientists have this all figured out already and second guessing their advised application rate can really mess things up with you thinking you are giving sufficient nutrition, when you are not.
I have another new grower doing an experiment to prove just that in his present grow. I have challenged him to follow the FF instructions to the letter. He appears to be having a very good grow, as I knew he would.
Autos are veraciously hungry. Feed them. Strongly. A little touch of burning at the leaf tips is not such a bad thing, if your intent was to put your plants into superdrive with your nutes.... that is why we buy nutes isn't it, knowing that the soil alone could grow these plants just fine? I know there are purists out there who will freak over this advice... to each his own. To my way of thinking, if I spend $100 on nutes, I want to see a $100 improvement in my plants, so I know I am pushing them a bit.
Think about it this way too... FF labs recommends to water with nutes only every other time, supplying pH adjusted water inbetween. Is this not already 50%? It is ... that water only watering picks up the nutes that were unused on the last wet/dry cycle and gives them a second shot... at about 1/4 strength inside the container. The scientists have this all figured out already and second guessing their advised application rate can really mess things up with you thinking you are giving sufficient nutrition, when you are not.
- Thread starter
- #11
I appreciate your thoughts on increasing nutes per Fox Farms chart, but if my plants are already showing nute burn, why would I want to do that? However, I believe your thoughts on using BB, GB, and TB in conjunction per the chart are quite sound. As you noted earlier, I haven't been doing this. I'm going to use the nute combinations indicated on the chart, but at half strength. As you noted, there's two schools of thought regarding autos: feed liberally, or feed sparingly. I'd rather not take the chance of cooking my plants, especially since what I've been doing is working pretty well except toward completion of the grow. But I think you're spot on that they're lacking something that might easily be available to the plants with a balanced combo of the three nutes.
My only question about the Fox Farms chart is that it's based on a 12-week grow. As you know, the growth cycle for autos is only about 2/3 of that for photos. I think I'm going to play around with the chart a bit and see if I can adapt it to the typical 8-10 week grow of autos. Keep and eye on my journal as it progresses and we'll see how we do. Also, if I may I'd like updates on your friend's grow in which he's following the chart closely.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Where was the amount of TB that you were giving in relation to what the chart recommends for this point in the grow? Could that part of the entire package be what was being over supplied, even though the organics of the BB were not yet included? I am wondering if now at the recommended dosage, you would actually be giving less? And yes, you would need to compress the chart a bit to make sense of the shortened flowering time for autos... I will watch to see what you figure out. @Killian is the one using full FF nutes as an experiment..
- Thread starter
- #13
Sooo . . . Let's call this Week 8. As I said earlier, I just flushed this plant a day or two ago. Last addition of nutes was 12/5 - watered with PH adjusted water and 1 tsp Fox Farms Big Bloom, no other nutes. Water only after that. Therein may lay the problem. According to the chart, she should have been getting all three nutes. Life is for learning.
My latest grow (WW Auto #2) is at Day 17 - so it's just in time to start a new routine. Tested the soil earlier today and it's right on the bubble between "dry" and "moist" so tomorrow should be a good day to water the new girls on the block.
- Thread starter
- #14
- Thread starter
- #15
I found the chart and revised it for autos. It's attached as a jpg and I'd appreciate it if you could offer your thoughts. I tried to attach it in a number of formats, but it didn't work
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I like it! Lets see how it works!I found the chart and revised it for autos. It's attached as a jpg and I'd appreciate it if you could offer your thoughts. I tried to attach it in a number of formats, but it didn't work
- Thread starter
- #17
I just ordered some Lambs Breath autos from CKS, so I'll follow the schedule and we'll see how it works. No doubt some tweaks will be needed. I was just thinking that many auto growers, especially noobs, might benefit from the chart.
- Thread starter
- #18
Emilya: After harvesting my last grow, I noticed the plants were extremely root-bound. Could this be and/or contribute to my ongoing issue? My latest grow will be ready for chopping in a couple of weeks, and once again I'm experiencing the same issue as with the last grows (see your prior responses of 12/14/18). I've been careful to follow nute program per the chart I developed for autos, based on Fox Farms recommendations for photos. Right now at Day 11 for my latest grow, Lambs Breath and would like to avoid this issue if possible.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
If you were truly root bound the plants would have stopped growing and possibly could have died. If you got a good harvest, they by definition were not root bound. The visual observation that your roots are severely wrapped around the bottom and sides of the container is not the definition of being root bound. Root wrapped is something that naturally occurs in containers. Root bound is when you have replaced a lot of the soil with roots in that rootball and there is no longer any ability to grow any more. There is not enough nutrition to go around, and even heavy feeding can not get nutrients to all of the roots. Root bound plants can oftentimes burst a container, the roots grow so big. A lot of so called experts would like to scare you into believing that if you can see the roots or if the roots have wrapped, it is a bad thing and you need to up-pot This simply is not true.
- Thread starter
- #20
By your definition, my plants are root-bound. When I've examined the roots there's not much soil there, mostly rootball. But as this occurs near the end of the grow, I suppose it's probably nothing to get stressed over.
