LED vs. HPS

[Black Thumb]

LoL, Dude, I have SOOO much LED Research on file. Over 2 years worth! I even have an article that talks about how efficiently green light CAN be absorbed, which is quite an eye opener. You'd be amazed at some of the stuff you'll find!

I have SOOO much LED Research on file <-- where ?

I would like to read your research.


How do LED's stand up to Storms, Circuit breaker trips.
I heard these things get blown easily and the panels go out easily.

Whats the Difference between your LED vs Someone elses?

 

[IrishBoy]

I have SOOO much LED Research on file <-- where ?

I would like to read your research.


How do LED's stand up to Storms, Circuit breaker trips.
I heard these things get blown easily and the panels go out easily.

Whats the Difference between your LED vs Someone elses?

i have never had any trouble from my led panels, maybe if you buy some eheap ebay ones.
they have already lasted longer then my hps bulbs.

i am had a few storms, circuit breaker trips and never had a problem with my lights.

 

[HydroGrowLED]

I have SOOO much LED Research on file <-- where ?

I would like to read your research.

I'm sure you would. The majority is saved in files on my computer, or bookmarks on my browser. I post bits and pieces of it all over the web for people to read, but never all of it in one place. My new website (coming in a few days) will have a lot more scientific background information to educate you a bit more on the lighting technology, but I don't tend to post research from other companies on my site. The majority of the research I collected was from other companies, tests, studies, etc..., as you need a whole team of scientists to figure out how to make the perfect light. I took that research and began my own off of it, which led to a lot of testing, designing, testing, and re-designing. My own research refined LED Grow Lights from a theory into a practice, and that research is what is on my site.

How do LED's stand up to Storms, Circuit breaker trips. I heard these things get blown easily and the panels go out easily.

I have 14, 126W units in total, and all of them have been through several power outages now, with zero issues. So like Irish said, maybe if it's the super cheapo stuff on eBay, but quality units tend to stand up to the conventional issues that all electronics are designed around. I know our units are CE certified.

Whats the Difference between your LED vs Someone elses?

Please take the time to read my website. It does the best job of explaining it in the least amount of time.

 

[PitViper]

Well ther here and put out more Lumens then you can count.
The end of HIDs?

Sulphur Plasma (SP) lamps are better viewed as the next generation of High Intensity Discharge (HID) lamps rather than the end of them. Sulphur plasma lamps have the best full spectrum index known to mankind. Unfortunately the first generation of sulphur plasma systems have the weakness of moving parts and a very high purchase price. However, no other lamp can use the beautiful full and continuous spectrum and highly corrosive, electrode destroying element of sulphur. Because the lamp is electrodeless, virtually any element can be added to the content, mercury for UV, indium halide for blue, sodium for yellow etc. photons escape unhindered because there is no need for the ceramic envelope used in modern HPS and CMH lamps. Third millennium technology and fabrication techniques will allow removal of the faraday cage (like a microwave oven door, it keeps the microwaves inside) and a non-rotating lamp which utilises Tesla induction methods will be key components of the second generation of sulphur plasma systems. Eventually the unit cost will reduce to a price little more than a domestic microwave oven, when this happens it will surely be the end of HIDs as we know them now.

welcome to Future of Grow lighting

 

[HeadMed]

freakin awesome

 

[Keith Lake]

Here's an article on the sulfur plasma that Pit's referring to.

I do understand that there's a second generation coming out

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/sulphur-plasma-lights.92751/

The upside, more lumen's per watt than HPS and much more spectrum.

The downside, only come in huge sizes and require like 3 -4 foot gaps over the plant canopy.

Suited to warehouse commercial grows (at least the first gen). Pit may have found a smaller version.

I think these are HID technically though? (Can't say for sure I'm not up to speed enough) I'm not a believer that any one technology will wipe out another. I'd predict there will just be more refinement of niche' and application.

 

[Keith Lake]

I read through the data and it looks like they're using a faraday cage to eliminate the radiation (which is reasonably high). The lamps are encased in a metal cage for this purpose

Manufacturer's Info

Here's the FAQ/claim
Are Sulphur Plasma lamps available now?

Yes for carefully chosen experimental projects, but otherwise no, not until October 2008 when a commercial supply is planned to commence in the UK.

How much do / will they cost?

The first units available will retail for around £1500.

Where can I get one from?

Well, if you’re really interested visit Plasma International's website.
You can apply to be on the waiting list but this is also full until October.

How many watts do Sulphur Plasma lights use?

Because of the digital variable power supply, anything from 400W to 3000W.
Most common are 560W (uses 740W from wall socket) LG Electronics have also produced a 700W and 1000W model (these use 1300W from the wall socket)

I know lumens are for humans, but how many do Sulphur Plasma lamps generate?

Most people don’t believe the numbers, but here goes anyway:

We’ve been developing the 1340 Sulphur Plasma over the last few years:

In 2006, 400,000 Lumens were measured from the 1340 SP at the Amsterdam Horticulture show (measured by H. Dulemans Dutch owner of Agrolux)

In 2007, 570,000 Lumens (again from 1340 SP) were measured from a 1340W Sulphur Plasma lamp at Jana University Germany.

And in 2008, more than 600,000 Lumens were measured at the Volkswagen Factory Germany (witnessed by Roland Loosli of Growbox.ch)

How does a 700W Sulphur Plasma light compare with a 1000W HPS?

A 700W SP performed the same as a 1000W HPS in a controlled growroom but it’s important to note that the test was conducted with a special German Sulphur Plasma lamp which had a lot of sodium as well as sulphur in it, so that it looked like HPS in colour, not white.

What happens if they explode? Does my growroom get microwaved?

Explosion is very unlikely and won’t be powerful enough to penetrate the 3mm hardened glass which is used as a cover.
Now all units have Swedish safety control units which switch microwave power off automatically and instantly should there be a malfunction.

Do I need to use separate Sulphur Plasma lights for veg and bloom?

No, just change the lamp from the 6000K standard version to 3000K Gold version for flowers and fruit. You only need change the bulb, (takes about 15mins for the user to do).

As SP lamps give off less heat, should I put them closer to my plants?

No, let the plants feel the benefit of far less IR heat. Also, you need retain some height to gain the benefit of a wide beam angle.

What are the other main applications for SP lamps?

The main applications for SP lamps are exactly same as 1000W+ HID lamps, especially replacing Xeon. The massive advantage is the big power with such a small lamp size and shape, this means we can drive light pipes and fibre optic networks like never before. Light piping is the future! Lovely full spectrum light can be plumbed in and piped anywhere you want, over and touching plants, through freezer rooms, underwater and underground.

 

[HeadMed]

Light pipes. There's a solar version of this manufactured in japan... being used to replace florescent tubes in offices... (supplement really).

 

[bf74]

Dear all-

LED lights are extremely effective as a sole lighting source, provided you have one with effective intensity and effecient spectrum. I have found that any 90W UFO (or higher W) with 660nm Red and 460nm Blue will do just as much as the average 400W HPS or MH in terms of growth rate, color, and plant density. Newer 120W units with 640nm + 660nm red, 460 Blue, and white in the mix are far more effective and grow big bushy plants very quickly.

While I agree LED grown plants take slightly longer to bud fully, I feel there is ABSOLUTELY NO compromise in the end result. In fact, especially in enclosed areas, you are almost guaranteed a healthier, cooler, disease-resistant plant vs. a HID light, which will leave you with a much happier end product. Paired with much less noise, risk, work, upkeep, and a $10 electric bill? Which makes more sense to you?

God bless and happy growin'!

Do you have a 90w ufo grow to show me?

 

[Keith Lake]

High bf74

Here's a link to you photo gallery tutorial. If you need any help shoot me a PM and I'll help.

Photo Gallery Guide - How to Resize, Upload & Post Photos

 

[lv420man]

Any new info on this topic?

Stony

 

[Black Thumb]

So they are still not available in the US ?

 

[Keith Lake]

PLASMA INTERNATIONAL - SULPHUR PLASMA LIGHTING SYSTEMS

Says they are available now, not sure if they ship to the US. If you call and find out, let us know Brother Black Thumb

 

[DEAN420]

nice post

 

[HinduxSkunk]

Watt for Watt LEDs are far better.
Price obviously not at the moment LEDs are disgustingly overpriced but
a 600w LED completely decimates a 600w HPS now a days the earlier LED grow lights had bad spectrum's and crappy LED bulbs but now with better bulbs and better blended spectrums watt for watt LED blows away a HPS or MH.
Ive never seen a 1000w LED but im shure that it must be awe inspiring if a 700w LED can be comparable to 2400w in HPS.

LEDs
YouTube - 90w LED UFO Comparison 400w HPS
The proof is there
The 630nm Red solo had better yields then the (2) 630nm reds because it had better bulbs the HPS obviously doing very well for its self but still the proof is right there.

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

Watt for Watt LEDs are far better.
Price obviously not at the moment LEDs are disgustingly overpriced but
a 600w LED completely decimates a 600w HPS now a days the earlier LED grow lights had bad spectrum's and crappy LED bulbs but now with better bulbs and better blended spectrums watt for watt LED blows away a HPS or MH.
Ive never seen a 1000w LED but im shure that it must be awe inspiring if a 700w LED can be comparable to 2400w in HPS.

LEDs
YouTube - 90w LED UFO Comparison 400w HPS
The proof is there
The 630nm Red solo had better yields then the (2) 630nm reds because it had better bulbs the HPS obviously doing very well for its self but still the proof is right there.

Hyperbole like this make me glad we have actual LED grow tests. I suggest you read irishboy's test of the 126 HGL vs 180 prosource. He finds most of the manufacturer's claims vs HPS a bit... optimistic.

 

[IrishBoy]

Watt for Watt LEDs are far better.
Price obviously not at the moment LEDs are disgustingly overpriced but
a 600w LED completely decimates a 600w HPS now a days the earlier LED grow lights had bad spectrum's and crappy LED bulbs but now with better bulbs and better blended spectrums watt for watt LED blows away a HPS or MH.
Ive never seen a 1000w LED but im shure that it must be awe inspiring if a 700w LED can be comparable to 2400w in HPS.

LEDs
YouTube - 90w LED UFO Comparison 400w HPS
The proof is there
The 630nm Red solo had better yields then the (2) 630nm reds because it had better bulbs the HPS obviously doing very well for its self but still the proof is right there.

that is completely not true. i am watching a grow using a watt for watt and the hps is still doing better. and this is one of the better led lights out right now. leds still have a ways to go, don't believe every thing you see or hear.
look on the web for a led grow by Rumpleforeskin and you will see what i mean. also were growing MJ not tomatoes so take that into consideration when watching this video .

 

[lv420man]

I was wondering how 4 UFO would do over a 3X3 table?

 

[bronco]

NO, the LEDs do not compare to an MH or HPS...By my estimate, LEDS will have about a 1/3 of the yield an HPS will have..

Hi,

I'd like to try the Procyon 100 so I searched for information about it on the web and all I found is people saying that HPS lights are better. Still, I really have doubts about this so I'd like to give my point of view and see what people think of it.

Of course, a 400W HPS will give a better yield than a 100W LED lamp. But I suppose that a 400W LED lamp will give a better yield than a 100W HPS lamp.
So shouldn't we compare lamps of the same wattage?

For exemple, what will be the yield with a procyon 100 versus a 100W HPS (or two procyon 100 versus one 250W HPS)?

Aren't LEDs supposed to be more efficient, ie they need less power and produce less heat to achieve the same result?

Does that make sense?

 

[baldalicious]

Hi,

Of course, a 400W HPS will give a better yield than a 100W LED lamp. But I suppose that a 400W LED lamp will give a better yield than a 100W HPS lamp.
So shouldn't we compare lamps of the same wattage?

For exemple, what will be the yield with a procyon 100 versus a 100W HPS (or two procyon 100 versus one 250W HPS)?

Aren't LEDs supposed to be more efficient, ie they need less power and produce less heat to achieve the same result?

Does that make sense?

I don't think you can compare LEDs with HIDs watt for watt. Yes, one of the advantages of LEDs is less heat but the major advantage of LEDs is to provide only the light from the color spectrum which are necessary for plant growth. HIDs produce light from the entire spectrum but not all of that light will be absorbed and used by the plant for growth. Green light, for example is mostly reflected and unused. The idea behind using LEDs is to provide only the light from the color spectrum which plants use for growth. Therefor much of the energy produced by an HID is wasted so many of those watts consumed by the HID are unnecessary. By using carefully selected LED nodes which provide only light from the spectrum needed by the plant, theoretically, an LED could be just as effective as an HID all while consuming far fewer watts.

Regarding yields, I've read many posts from people using LEDs who have claimed favorable yields comparable to HIDs and vice versa. I think the truth lays somewhere in the middle. LEDs used as grow lights are relatively new, just starting to be used within the last few years, and many people are devoting much time, energy and research to improve them. HIDs have been around for a long time and so it's pretty easy to make assumptions about yields based on wattage. Not so yet with LEDs because manufactures are still tweaking and trying new things. I have no doubt that at some point, LEDs will become far better grow lights than HIDs for many reasons. They may not be there yet but with more research and practice, they will supplant HIDs as the most effective source of indoor grow lighting.