Medical Pot Garden Seized On A Technicality

[J9BLACK]

When we can finally declare victory, can the justice department please give Mark Emery five years of his life back?

 

[TorturedSoul]

The LEO had every legal right to raid and arrest the illegal worker, but the other arrests, and the seizure of the business equipment and goods is approaching gestapo like abuse.

I'm not sure whether I would call it "gestapo like abuse." And the reason is that I am unsure whether under the local laws this garden would be considered to be ilegal because of the obvious violations or not. If not, then yes, I would agree. If so... Then I'd disagree. I'd agree that there was a problem, but my ire would not rest upon the LEO. There are good ones and bad ones. It must really suck to be expected to enforce laws (equally) when half the time they do not believe in the laws and half the time said laws are not exactly clear in the first place.

This is why we have lawyers.

Some would say they define the term "necessary evil" (with varying degrees of each part, lol).

Debates on a board like this are fine, but dissecting another's post is over the top.

You are right. And while I meant to only "dissect" the points in his post, I reread my post and I can see where some might feel that I dissected the post as well as the points contained therein (and some may be right).

Hopefully, Lord Indica comes back but if not...I'll see him elsewhere!

Agreed on both counts.

I just wonder if a fair punitive plan has not been outlined for a reason?

Probably. But I would suggest that the reason lies more along the lines of "you cannot please everyone, and it's incredibly hard to create something in practice that is - whatever one's own stance - universally "fair." Compromise between groups who are diametrically-opposed is also difficult.

All that being said, if it were entirely legal, it would sure simplify things for everyone.

ATo a certain extent. But "entirely legal" is not the same thing as "entirely unregulated." And while I'm all for unregulated personal growing/consumption, I am not opposed to the thought of (some, reasonable, practical, sensible) regulation as regarding cannabis as an industry. Specific regulations that I have read about, sure. But not the concept of regulation itself.

Here is a question though: Is anyone familiar with what the consequences are for hiring a minor to serve alcohol?

They can range from a fine to a license revocation and even (theoritically) jail time depending on the jurisdiction, the circumstances, and whether or not the act is a one-time thing (repeat offenses are more likely to get a license yanked, and for longer). It's another case of each state/locality setting its own rules.

Would there not be some sort of further investigation to find out if the owner had done due diligence, or if he/she had been misled?

I would assume that to some extent that would be part of the general investigative phase. But keep in mind, one is (legally) responsible for their actions and in the case of law, most often it doesn't really matter whether one knows one is breaking the law or not. It may often have an affect during the sentencing phase, but it's not supposed to be a factor in whether or not to charge someone in the first place.

During said investigation, would the place be shut down entirely?

AI have seen an establishment shut down for this. It later reopened under the same management. I do not know if that's because the charges were dropped or not (AfaIK, nobody was terminated - other than the person under 21 who was working there, of course) and I do not know if that is routine. I have also seen an establishment shut down for serving customers after the mandated closing time, but that was after repeated violations. The place is serving now, though. I don't know how long they were down. 30 days, maybe.

This is one of the huge down sides to being in a business WHILE the laws are being ironed out, rather than waiting till the dust settles. It sucks, but someone has to do it.

Yes. It is impossible to say what the current laws would have been like had people waited. Better? Worse? Still in committee, lol (probably).

One cannot compare/contrast how we as a nation treat alcohol versus cannabis.

Too right. One is... And the other is... Anyway, it is unfortunate that many people do.

BtW, they are both found in nature. They are both used - and, I believe, manufactured - by the human brain. They both can be a problem for a person if said person is... likely to have problems with substances that make/help (depending on how you look at it) then feel differently than they would otherwise feel. And for millions of people... neither of them are a problem. Other than those gross generalities, I would not compare them or associate them, no.

As far as these grow operations, dispensaries and businesses taking risks as pioneers...I applaud the doctors, investors, growers and property owners--all who are involved--for their courage.[/QUOTE]

I applaud those who do what they do for reasons that aren't chiefly profit-based. Unfortunately, it is sometimes rather difficult to discern which are which.

When we can finally declare victory, can the justice department please give Mark Emery five years of his life back?

I'm not a fan. But even I don't feel that his arrest/trial/conviction was right.

- - - - -

Forgetting for the moment that it would be best if it was legal to cultivate at will... If I was "the law" and was in that situation, I would have wanted to arrest the person who was deemed to not have a legal right to be there, but to allow the garden to continue - for the moment, at the least. Yes, the one in charge might have been knowingly breaking the law - and, again, is really responsible regardless of intent, as far as our laws are set up - but that would have allowed the plants to continue to live and presumably thrive. They talk about dollar-value and compensation, but the best way would be to let them continue while the determination is made one way or the other. If you're screwed, you're screwed whether they rip them today or allow you to finish the crop (or continue a perpetual) and then rip them. If you're not screwed, I mean arrested and found guilty, but they rip your garden today... Then when it's all said and done, when they give you a check for the amount that they determined your garden was worth... You're still probably mostly screwed. And if it's an honest medicinal-use garden and you're a caregiver for others, then they're screwed regardless if the plants are ripped. Even if LEO in a fit of humanity does what it can to maintain the life of the plants, they're not going to be what they would have been, when they would have been.

<SHRUGS> Regulation and administration could help. If they know that the garden is producing x ounces per month, and charges are levied, make the charges use that weight figure and leave the poor plants alone, lol. And don't go back next Tuesday and levy the same charges. Most of the time, if you ticket some drunk for PI when he's stumbling home from the bar, if you figure he's safe enough to make it the rest of the way and turn him loose, you don't follow him for a couple blocks and write him another ticket. He's charged, he'll either pay the ticket, fight it, or ignore it and <PSST!> someone is mugging an old lady on the corner of Fifth & Vine.

They might even stipulate, "Yes, I expect to get 1.5 ounces each from these ten plants," and when it's all over they only got seven ounces total, lol, so the possibility exists for LEO to win.

Just joking there, but... It's not something that I would want to see, but it's one viable solution in the interim. And when I think about it, allowing for what the grower expects at harvest at least takes into account his/her intent instead of something arbitrary that LEO has come up with. (And we all intend to just grow enough for a couple of joints, right? :; )

Isn't it sad that even if the decision were made to make cannabis legal but tax/regulate/restrict it as much as possible and for as much money as possible... The total cost of doing so in this country would still only amount to a fraction of the amount spent on "the drug war?"

And that's just in monetary terms....

 

[420 Warrior]

Wow TS, you got a short version of all that man? (He says..., as he's poking his eyes back into his skull)...

30 minutes later--->---> one hour later--->---Reinforcments--->

You know, some people get paid for writing that much info!? Ever thought about journalism?

I think you covered the bases of a few games (articles)

Umm? I got nutin'...How could I ever fallow that act...

Just kiddin'

 

[Propa Gator]

The prohibition 'war' against marijuana has always been about more money for corporate interests. Propaganda is a primary weapon wielded by corrupt politicians. Bowing to the power may be pragmatic, but where will you draw the line? If you'll smell farts and like it, will you lick a turd? Will you convince yourself that it's a Snicker bar, and munch it with a shit-eating grin? Bon appetite

Jury nullification is the best, most direct application of our US Constitution against unjust powerplays by wealthy, greedy people & corporations. No harm no foul. When a victim is arrested for posession of MJ, who has he harmed? DON"T listen to the judge when he instructs you on your jury duty, because he is lying to maintain the crooked court/police/prison system and his job. Just say NOT GUILTY, when the time comes.
BTW, don't let on to the prosecutor that you are not a retarded sheep, or you won't serve on that jury.

And you people who say: "It's just a natural plant!" So are *pium p*ppies and c*ca bushes. Cannabis is different.