New grower, need help in a challenged environment-cold

[giannid]

Hello to all and I'm a new member. This will also be my first indoor grow. Michigan has just legalized recreational use so I'm going to give it a shot this winter. Unfortunately it's cold in the Northeast and the only place I have to grow is in my commercial building I use for my business. It's a large building and am only able to keep the temperature around 44 degrees in the winter. I have to do this as we have equipment and supplies that have to be protected from freezing.

I want to set up a small grow tent in the building. I'm thinking a 4 by 4 tent will be sufficient for 4 to 6 plants. A friend of mine has this Timber LED light he will give me which is a Models 4vs and puts out 400 watts with 3500k bulbs. It may be a little undersized and I'm worried that the LED'S might not produce enough heat. I'd really prefer to use an led as I feel it'll be better in the long run as far as maintenance and longevity. I could down size the tent to a 3 by 3 if I needed to. The floor is concrete so I'll probably set the tent on some 2 inch foam insulation. This is the tent I'd like to use as it seems like it has decent reviews Vivosun 4' by 4' by 80".


I'm not going to be using autoflowers so I'll probably have to ad some supplemental heat which I'm thinking of just putting in an oil filled heater in the tent with a thermostat. I know this isn't the most ideal situation but it's all I got. Heating the entire building isn't an option and I don't have the room to build a dedicated grow room.

Ventilation I'm still trying to figure out. Not sure how bad the plants will stink up the shop so I'm not sure I need a carbon filter. I may just add a carbon filter when the plants start to stink. Recommendations on a good ventilation system would be appreciated also. I'm not sure I need to vent outside but I can if I need to as I'll be next to a wall.

Looking for people who've grown in similar environments and have had the same challenges. I'm new to this and could use all the help I can get. Locally, I have an HTC supply and some other indoor grow shops I can buy supplies from. I'm going to get the plants started in the next couple of weeks. Thanks for the help in advance

 

[nivek]

well, a challenge indeed,, no question

the one thing i could comment on right away that will change your thinking a bit, or a lot is the heater

number one,, you will absolutely need heat in that tent,, led's or cobs or similar put out nest to no useful heat for your purposes

this the main point,, i think,, there is no way you could put a heater 'inside' the tent, and achieve the results you will want

there will be no room in there for a heater,, perhaps hanging from the roof or something,, but,, inside a small space, crammed full, just does not sound like a safe scenario to me

one thot,, two tents,, one biggg one, and a smaller 3x3 inside that,, and heat the bigger tent,, perhaps some insulation around it or similar

karma sent to your idea factory friend,,

cheers

 

[giannid]

Definitely a challenge. I think a little upright oil heater would fit in a 4 by 4 though with 4 plants.

So no go on the led's because it won't put out enough heat?

 

[nivek]

not a no go on led's because they dont put out much heat,, just a no go on led's as a heat source

one of the advantages of led's is the very fact that they put out so little heat,, which is usually the problem with growing, too 'much' heat

seriously,, a heater in a grow tent is never going to be a good idea,, imo,

you will be so surprised at how little room you have in there with four plants especially.

take some tape and tape out a four foot square on the floor,, not kidding here,, a very good lesson for your project,, will help with your planning

one other thing,, can you put the tent directly into a corner?>? that will help insulate the sides a bit

 

[giannid]

I can put the tent in the corner but doubt it would do me much good as the building isn’t insulated very well.

 

[nivek]

it actually would do quite a bit of good,, the warm air inside is going to transfer outside thru the fabric of the tent,, then into the atmosphere, or room space,, but against the wall the warm air escaping hits a wall, so is not so able to escape into the room space, creating a dead space sorta, around half of your tent sides

 

[Rosie44]

I had the same problem in March here in southern Ontario. The LED 600W light was doing a great job growing, but was too cool. I put in a new HPS 400W dimmable light also in the tent and started at 1/2 power. Plants started thriving in a week, then upped it to 100% power. I had originally wanted to install a Hps 250W but my supplier gave me a deal I couldn’t pass up.
Using the HPS at 1/2 power was perfect for the heat that was needed, but since I had more light to give, I just had to give it all
Without the extra heat, my plants were not drinking fast enough, since heat added, plants are now thirsty every 3-4 days. I harvested over 1 lb of White Widow using both of these lights in a 4X4 grow tent in a cold basement
Good luck on your grow, I’m loving growing in the winter, very relaxing and helps with the winter blues I find.
Note: I use a small ceramic heater that has a thermostat for when the lights are off. I keep it set at 70F

 

[Advocate420]

In a 4x4 tent I use a 1000w hps. You will have all the heat you need and light for the space

 

[Advocate420]

For vent, put the exhause on a temp socket. It turn on when temp reaches setting
Get a carbon filter, u will want it. I heat my house with my exhaust lol

 

[Advocate420]

Sorry for triple post
You will still need heat for light off, and I see a possible advantage of the oil, but it wouldn’t matter lights out is the potential for CO2 increase. I have used a buddy tent to make my environment and draw into the grow. If you have the space, get a bigger tent. I have 2 plants in my tent and couldn’t fit a fart.

 

[Emilya Green]

Don't discount LED simply because they can't generate heat in your tent... there is nothing wrong with heating up a tent with a little space heater and a good oscillating fan... I do it all the time. LEDs are cheap to run and have a very long life, and now are cheaper to buy up front than they ever have been. They also grow some good pot.
Regarding smell in the shop... you absolutely must have negative air pressure in the tent and a carbon filter to vent the air out. If you do it right you can vent right into the building without smell, but I would try to find a way to vent outside. A side benefit of the negative tent pressure is that through its vents this will draw in fresh air for the plants from the air in the shop... you should try to exchange air in that tent at least 5x an hour.

 

[giannid]

Well, I'm still trying to decide how do do this. I think I'm going to go with Cmh lights instead of the LEd's. Seems like they use less power and create more heat. From what I'm reading, a 315 watt unit can give you enough light for a 4 by 4 tent. I could use the wattage it saves for the space heater. Thoughts? I'm also thinking about purchasing one of these AC infinity cloudline T6 blower fans. They sell them on Amazon and it's basically a blower that's controlled by a thermostat. They're not to expensive at $140 for a 6 inch unit. They also have a manual mode go you can use it like a regular blower. Figure this is the best one to buy for a blower since it's not too expensive and I could use it for two purposes if need be.

A new development with my situation. Looks like I may be putting the grow tent next to the furnace. This helps me two ways. First, the corner where the furnace is at stays a little warmer than the rest of the shop. Not a lot warmer but maybe a few degrees. Shop thermostat is set at 44 degrees so not really warm. Secondly, I'm thinking about hooking up a vent tube on the side of the output of the furnace and directing into the grow tent/box. This would give me some free heat to work with and keep some air moving it the tent. I'm not sure I'm going to have a low humidity problem in the tent. The air in the winter is quite dry up here in the north and in our home we need to have a humidifier to keep things comfortable. Also, I'm sure the air coming out of the furnace will be extremely dry. Thoughts?

Everyone talks about air exchange in a grow tent. I'm reading about people who grow in a mostly sealed environment with not a lot of problems. I think exhausting the air out of the on a constant basis is going to give me problems keeping the temperature up when the lights are off. Do you guys think the air blowing in from the furnace will be enough fresh air in the tent? Was hoping to get enough fresh air in the tent by leaving a vent open on the side of the tent and just using a blower and carbon filter inside to scrub and recirculate the air.

Just trying to get this figured out before I do the build.

 

[Advocate420]

Well, I'm still trying to decide how do do this. I think I'm going to go with Cmh lights instead of the LEd's. Seems like they use less power and create more heat. From what I'm reading, a 315 watt unit can give you enough light for a 4 by 4 tent. I could use the wattage it saves for the space heater. Thoughts? I'm also thinking about purchasing one of these AC infinity cloudline T6 blower fans. They sell them on Amazon and it's basically a blower that's controlled by a thermostat. They're not to expensive at $140 for a 6 inch unit. They also have a manual mode go you can use it like a regular blower. Figure this is the best one to buy for a blower since it's not too expensive and I could use it for two purposes if need be.

A new development with my situation. Looks like I may be putting the grow tent next to the furnace. This helps me two ways. First, the corner where the furnace is at stays a little warmer than the rest of the shop. Not a lot warmer but maybe a few degrees. Shop thermostat is set at 44 degrees so not really warm. Secondly, I'm thinking about hooking up a vent tube on the side of the output of the furnace and directing into the grow tent/box. This would give me some free heat to work with and keep some air moving it the tent. I'm not sure I'm going to have a low humidity problem in the tent. The air in the winter is quite dry up here in the north and in our home we need to have a humidifier to keep things comfortable. Also, I'm sure the air coming out of the furnace will be extremely dry. Thoughts?

Everyone talks about air exchange in a grow tent. I'm reading about people who grow in a mostly sealed environment with not a lot of problems. I think exhausting the air out of the on a constant basis is going to give me problems keeping the temperature up when the lights are off. Do you guys think the air blowing in from the furnace will be enough fresh air in the tent? Was hoping to get enough fresh air in the tent by leaving a vent open on the side of the tent and just using a blower and carbon filter inside to scrub and recirculate the air.

Just trying to get this figured out before I do the build.

Your cooking now! Welcome to growing. Constant thought, actions, trial an error. One interesting thing I’ve learned it you never know till you try, then new things come up.
I have a neg pressure tent with exhausting 24hrs and passive intake. I hope to try a sealed environment but that can only be achieved with CO2 I think. I also learned that TOO much air movement is also very bad for them. There are math ratios for cubic feet and how often it should be exchanged if your specific.

 

[Emilya Green]

In the winter, in a cool unheated basement, I have one fan doing the air exchange and it is on a timer to run 3x an hour for 5 minutes. This air is pulled into a 3' carbon filter and vented into the room. I have another fan pulling air from the outside and it is on that same timer. The outside fan is set on low and the vent/filter is set on high so as to maintain negative pressure in the tent. Those 5 minute air exchanges can bring the tent temp down a good 20 degrees, but the space heater quickly brings it back up to a comfortable 79 degrees.