Opioid Tapering With Cannabis: A Regimen

[Dirtdemon]

Hey y’all, just losing my mind over here. Went for a walk and blasted a great big cannon and enjoyed feeding mallards at the park. All I could think was how delicious they would be. I enjoyed that because I wasn’t thinking about doing more drugs.
Back home now I staired at my ladies for a bit I got one DLF that I’m hoping will be ready in 8 to 10 days. I’m just rambling trying to keep my mind occupied. Oh yeah I went to my guerilla site, a moose knocked over 3 plants the rest are alive. I gave them a blast of nutes today. Saw a great big timber wolf. It was so majestic. Any way time to do something else this isn’t working anymore.
Peace out rabbit
DirtDemon

 

[Preston9mm]

Hey y’all, just losing my mind over here. Went for a walk and blasted a great big cannon and enjoyed feeding mallards at the park. All I could think was how delicious they would be. I enjoyed that because I wasn’t thinking about doing more drugs.
Back home now I staired at my ladies for a bit I got one DLF that I’m hoping will be ready in 8 to 10 days. I’m just rambling trying to keep my mind occupied. Oh yeah I went to my guerilla site, a moose knocked over 3 plants the rest are alive. I gave them a blast of nutes today. Saw a great big timber wolf. It was so majestic. Any way time to do something else this isn’t working anymore.
Peace out rabbit
DirtDemon

I used to be in a hot shower 3-5 times a day when I was getting off opiates & benzos. It was my comfort place.

Hope you find some kind of peace...

-P

 

[Dirtdemon]

So today I should get my half a gram off 99% CBD. Looking for any info on how to mix that with my edibles. I have a bunch of sugar leaf so I was thinking I would decarb about 100grams at 280 for a hour, and put the cbd in with the weed for decarbing( I assume the cbd needs to be decarbed too) then I will mix with 2 cups of coconut oil and simmer for a few hours. Then make some capsules or use a medicine dropper.
Help would be appreciated.

 

[Dirtdemon]

So I mixed about a grain of rice size amount of cbd crystalline into a joint. It changed the joint I don’t feel like I normally do after a joint. I feel a warm sensation all over my body. The head high is different as well. More upbeat I feel like I’m thinking a million miles a minute. And I’m starting to feel energetic. That means time for a walk just thought I would share the experience.

 

[SweetSue]

CBD will counteract much of the euphoria of THC, but IMO, the real value is its ability to tamp down inflammation.

At this point none of us has much experience with this product. I’ll see if I can get someone to chime in.

My thoughts on the oil:

You have some idea of what the expected THC values are of the plant you’re using to make oil. If it’s 15% that means you can expect to get 150 mg of THC in every gram of bud.

You’ll be using a quantity of buds, and you can calculate a rough guess at the expected total value of THC in that infusion.

What you want to do is to mix enough CBD to match that best guess. The product you have is almost perfect CBD. It must be decarbed, or it’d be CBDa. What does your container say?

Once you have a balanced oil mixed you’ll take a dose of that with your opioid dose, reducing the opioid dose by 10-50% of what you’d normally take. Try not to jump too far. You want to allow it to happen, not force it.

I’ve been thinking about how to decide on the starting cannabinoid dose. The protocol presented by Dr. Smith is founded in his belief that euphoria is something to be avoided. I don’t agree with that. I think euphoria is an important part of cannabis therapeutics.

If you’re not afraid of euphoria, you’re experienced with cannabis, and you live with debilitating chronic pain I think it’s a safe bet you’ll do well to start at 10 mg of THC and 10 mg of CBD per dose.

Before we go any further on this idea, I’d appreciate hearing the thoughts of the rest of you.

 

[SweetSue]

So I mixed about a grain of rice size amount of cbd crystalline into a joint. It changed the joint I don’t feel like I normally do after a joint. I feel a warm sensation all over my body. The head high is different as well. More upbeat I feel like I’m thinking a million miles a minute. And I’m starting to feel energetic. That means time for a walk just thought I would share the experience.

This was good to read. So good I had to reread and get excited all over again. Lol!

You never know until you try if you’ll respond well to CBD. It’ll always do the healing work it was evolved to do, but some people feel nothing when they take it, and feeling nothing usually means they stop using it, not a good idea.

You’ll do well.

 

[Dirtdemon]

CBD will counteract much of the euphoria of THC, but IMO, the real value is its ability to tamp down inflammation.

At this point none of us has much experience with this product. I’ll see if I can get someone to chime in.

My thoughts on the oil:

You have some idea of what the expected THC values are of the plant you’re using to make oil. If it’s 15% that means you can expect to get 150 mg of THC in every gram of bud.

You’ll be using a quantity of buds, and you can calculate a rough guess at the expected total value of THC in that infusion.

What you want to do is to mix enough CBD to match that best guess. The product you have is almost perfect CBD. It must be decarbed, or it’d be CBDa. What does your container say?

Once you have a balanced oil mixed you’ll take a dose of that with your opioid dose, reducing the opioid dose by 10-50% of what you’d normally take. Try not to jump too far. You want to allow it to happen, not force it.

I’ve been thinking about how to decide on the starting cannabinoid dose. The protocol presented by Dr. Smith is founded in his belief that euphoria is something to be avoided. I don’t agree with that. I think euphoria is an important part of cannabis therapeutics.

If you’re not afraid of euphoria, you’re experienced with cannabis, and you live with debilitating chronic pain I think it’s a safe bet you’ll do well to start at 10 mg of THC and 10 mg of CBD per dose.

Before we go any further on this idea, I’d appreciate hearing the thoughts of the rest of you.

First before I forget the box says 99%cbd! Just like that lol ! And everything. I did not realize that it had been decarbed already. Thank you SweetSue Sunshine again saving me.
As for the oil I am using sugar leaves the weed is probably 18%. We use 100 grams of sugar leaf to 1 cup of coconut oil. Now if I was using bud we find that to be equal in potency to using 1 ounce of bud to a cup of Coconut oil. For some reason I can’t figure it out but I would think I need to use all 500mg of the CBD to come close to a 1:1 ratio?

I agree with you 100% euphoria is a big part using canabis to quite opiates. I would be lieing if I said the euphoria isn’t part of the reason why I abuse opiates. Yes I hav pain and that was the start of the problem and still is some of the problem but not all of it. Trying to deny that would not be being honest and can’t be healthy if your serious about getting off opiates. I use the weed euphoria as a replacement.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
DirtDemon

 

[SweetSue]

When you make an infused oil you can anticipate you'll only be getting back 85% of the oil. The rest will be caught up in the plant material you strain out, regardless of how much you think you can squeeze out.

I'm going to use 28 grams to calculate the THC values, since that's what you estimate to be a close match in potency. We only make a best guess anyway without lab results.

The breeder says you'll get 18%, but that usually doesn't happen unless you're a damned good cultivator growing under prime conditions. I always underestimate unless I have test results. For this calculation I'll use 15% THC.

So if we multiply that 85% times the anticipated 15% THC in the chemovar we get

85% x 15% = 0.1275

For every gram of bud used you can reasonably expect to get at least around 13% THC.

0.1275 times the total grams of bud used (in your case the 100 grams of sugar leaf being counted as an ounce) will give us the total grams of THC we can expect to get.

0.1275 x 28 = 3.57 grams of THC expected to be extracted and recovered from the infusion.

We need that in milligrams.

3.57 gr x 1000 = 3570 mg of THC

We can reasonably expect to recover 3570 mg of THC from that 100 grams of sugar leaves.

You only have a little less than 500 mg of the CBD on hand, which means you'll calculate how much of your oil would contain enough THC to balance out the CBD with what you have on hand.

If you use 250 ml of coconut oil you'll be getting approximately

3570 mg divided by 250 ml = 14.28 mg/ml. I'd round down to 14 mg/ml.

If you have 450 mg of the CBD on hand and you add it to 32 ml of your oil, I think you'll be close to an even ratio.


OK guys, I showed my work so you could check my reasoning and my numbers. Math can sometimes tie my brain in knots.

 

[SweetSue]

If the oil is made with 350 ml of oil instead of 250 you'll get so close to 10 mg/ml that it gave me chills. Lol! Having an oil at 10 mg values makes it much easier to manage the dose. You can freeze them and cut them down to get smaller doses if you don't want to dilute anymore.

Setting all that aside DirtDemon, you may well discover that smoking it in a joint, like you did today, will be the most effective way to taper off. We're all in new territory here.

 

[SweetSue]

If you went with making the oil in a balanced formula, at 10 mg/ml (made with 350 ml of carrier oil) you'd need 45 ml of the infused oil to add the 450 mg of CBD to.

 

[Dirtdemon]

If the oil is made with 350 ml of oil instead of 250 you'll get so close to 10 mg/ml that it gave me chills. Lol! Having an oil at 10 mg values makes it much easier to manage the dose. You can freeze them and cut them down to get smaller doses if you don't want to dilute anymore.

Setting all that aside DirtDemon, you may well discover that smoking it in a joint, like you did today, will be the most effective way to taper off. We're all in new territory here.

Okay SweetSue I will up the CO to make it easier. And I will by a journal and start writing down doses and whatnot. I will try eating it first and marke down results then do the same with smoking it.
Out of curiosity how many capsules will I be able to fill with 32ml.
Thank you so much for taking the time to figure that out for me SweetSue Sunshine.
DirtDemon

 

[SweetSue]

Okay SweetSue I will up the CO to make it easier. And I will by a journal and start writing down doses and whatnot. I will try eating it first and marke down results then do the same with smoking it.
Out of curiosity how many capsules will I be able to fill with 32ml.
Thank you so much for taking the time to figure that out for me SweetSue Sunshine.
DirtDemon

The 00 capsules hold just under a ml, so I'd expect with the CBD added you'll get about 50 capsules from that. You'll be adding some liquid sunflower lecithin to the strained oil? It can be a challenge to acquire sometimes, but even a little will help make the oil more bioavailable. I use a tablespoon per cup of finished oil, but to be honest, I don't ever measure. I've become instinctive. Lol!

I never worry about the drop in cannabinoids per dose when I add lecithin. The lecithin increases bioavailability way beyond any loss per dose. That helps cut back on expenses somewhat.

 

[Dirtdemon]

Hey y’all, smoked a gram took a pill. Withdrawal symptoms today are peaking the charts. I waited a couple hours after waking up to dose, idk if that was a good idea or not, but I’m going to try pushing it a little longer each day. I’m going to find something to do. Y’all have good day.

 

[SweetSue]

Hey y’all, smoked a gram took a pill. Withdrawal symptoms today are peaking the charts. I waited a couple hours after waking up to dose, idk if that was a good idea or not, but I’m going to try pushing it a little longer each day. I’m going to find something to do. Y’all have good day.

Are you taking cannabis doses at the same time? This is one of the more important points of the regimen. Get yourself on a schedule for dosing and stick to that schedule.

This is not a matter of willpower. You’re dealing with an addictive response, and it doesn’t play by the rules you’re applying. Get on a strict dosing schedule, and always take both meds at the same time, adding in the CBD crystals to help get you over the bumps.

Have you tried the CBD on its own for breakthrough? This has been shown to be effective in keeping pain manageable.

Also, indulge my curious nature, how are you sleeping?

 

[SweetSue]

I’m finding a flaw in the doctor’s regimen.

If you’re a model patient and take all your meds on time this regimen methodically tapers down to either reduce or eliminate the opioid dose.

If you’re buying your opioids on the street consumption becomes driven more by the pain and cravings and schedules go out the window.

Am I getting this correctly?

So the quandary becomes how to assist someone taking opioids sporadically. It’s an important part of the regimen that you stick to that schedule.

However......I’m noticing a tendency for the patient to say “Screw this, I’m done!” and try to go cold turkey. I’m in no way disparaging that choice. It’d probably be the way I’d go, with a stash of CBD nearby, after the success we’ve witnessed with its use.

So if this is going to be the way some members are going to approach withdrawal, I’d like to find ways to get them through the nasty parts as gently as possible using cannabis.

One of the first things I’d suggest is to always supplement the cannabis with extra CBD. Doctors will want to control the doses in milligrams. I’m not sure that matters for most patients as much as they believe. Cannabis components are safe to use. My basic guidelines would be

- Get yourself on a schedule and stick to it.
- Always take the opioid and cannabis doses together.
- If possible, work with a balanced ratio cannabis medicine.
- Get the cannabis dose to the level that you need to manage the pain.
- Use CBD crystals to increase the CBD ratio as needed, and for breakthrough pain. It’s always worth it to try the CBD alone for breakthrough before trying higher THC meds.
- Once you find the balance of opioid and cannabis that controls most of the pain, begin gently tapering off the opioid dose. Every week give dropping the opioid dose another try, adjusting the cannabis dose to compensate.

There are bound to be times when you can’t drop the dose without chaos ensuing. At these points stay the course, up the CBD portion of your dose, and try again after another week.

More THC at bedtime is always a good thing. Get a good night’s sleep and you are better equipped to face the day with strength and optimism.

Be sure to get in that daily ten minutes of laughing so heartily that you’re crying. And those three-breath hugs may be the best part of a SweetSue regimen

That’s enough of my ramblings. I’m determined to find ways to help you all through withdrawal. It’s not supposed to be possible to make something like this happen across a digital field, but I never paid much attention to limited thought. Lol!

DirtDemon..... hug!

 

[Dirtdemon]

I’m finding a flaw in the doctor’s regimen.

If you’re a model patient and take all your meds on time this regimen methodically tapers down to either reduce or eliminate the opioid dose.

If you’re buying your opioids on the street consumption becomes driven more by the pain and cravings and schedules go out the window.

Am I getting this correctly?

So the quandary becomes how to assist someone taking opioids sporadically. It’s an important part of the regimen that you stick to that schedule.

However......I’m noticing a tendency for the patient to say “Screw this, I’m done!” and try to go cold turkey. I’m in no way disparaging that choice. It’d probably be the way I’d go, with a stash of CBD nearby, after the success we’ve witnessed with its use.

So if this is going to be the way some members are going to approach withdrawal, I’d like to find ways to get them through the nasty parts as gently as possible using cannabis.

One of the first things I’d suggest is to always supplement the cannabis with extra CBD. Doctors will want to control the doses in milligrams. I’m not sure that matters for most patients as much as they believe. Cannabis components are safe to use. My basic guidelines would be

- Get yourself on a schedule and stick to it.
- Always take the opioid and cannabis doses together.
- If possible, work with a balanced ratio cannabis medicine.
- Get the cannabis dose to the level that you need to manage the pain.
- Use CBD crystals to increase the CBD ratio as needed, and for breakthrough pain. It’s always worth it to try the CBD alone for breakthrough before trying higher THC meds.
- Once you find the balance of opioid and cannabis that controls most of the pain, begin gently tapering off the opioid dose. Every week give dropping the opioid dose another try, adjusting the cannabis dose to compensate.

There are bound to be times when you can’t drop the dose without chaos ensuing. At these points stay the course, up the CBD portion of your dose, and try again after another week.

More THC at bedtime is always a good thing. Get a good night’s sleep and you are better equipped to face the day with strength and optimism.

Be sure to get in that daily ten minutes of laughing so heartily that you’re crying. And those three-breath hugs may be the best part of a SweetSue regimen

That’s enough of my ramblings. I’m determined to find ways to help you all through withdrawal. It’s not supposed to be possible to make something like this happen across a digital field, but I never paid much attention to limited thought. Lol!

DirtDemon..... hug!

Big hug back at you SweetSue
Okay I was starting to day with perk and a joint, and eat a cookie. Then I continue smoking and eating weed. The cookies I eat one every 3 hours or so. Smoking constantly every time I crave opiates or think screw it easier to just eat pills forever I smoke a joint. I am getting g close to 10grams a day.
I have ordered more cbd crystalline should be in today. So I have been adding cbd to every joint. I think it is helping definitely helping with the arthritis in my hands.

I will follow your advice and stick to a schedule I have been doing good with the opiates. I’m taking four a day and only 4 that has been a week or so. But I still feel the withdrawal symptoms yesterday I felt pretty good today is the complete opposite. I’m thinking of sticking with 4 a day until next Friday then drop to 3. I hope that the symptoms ease up a bit over this time.
I sleep okay SweetSue. I average about 4 hours a night and that is my normal sleeping pattern for my adult life. But the reason I sleep okay is I’m stoned and I always eat 2 cookies before I go to sleep.
If I don’t eat the two cookies I am up after 2 hours because my back hurts so bad I can’t lay down anymore.
My gf and I are going to make the capsules this weekend she is really good at this kind of stuff.
A big thank you to SweetSue

 

[SweetSue]

That post left a big smile on my face.

 

[Dirtdemon]

I’m finding a flaw in the doctor’s regimen.

If you’re a model patient and take all your meds on time this regimen methodically tapers down to either reduce or eliminate the opioid dose.

If you’re buying your opioids on the street consumption becomes driven more by the pain and cravings and schedules go out the window.

Am I getting this correctly?

So the quandary becomes how to assist someone taking opioids sporadically. It’s an important part of the regimen that you stick to that schedule.

However......I’m noticing a tendency for the patient to say “Screw this, I’m done!” and try to go cold turkey. I’m in no way disparaging that choice. It’d probably be the way I’d go, with a stash of CBD nearby, after the success we’ve witnessed with its use.

So if this is going to be the way some members are going to approach withdrawal, I’d like to find ways to get them through the nasty parts as gently as possible using cannabis.

One of the first things I’d suggest is to always supplement the cannabis with extra CBD. Doctors will want to control the doses in milligrams. I’m not sure that matters for most patients as much as they believe. Cannabis components are safe to use. My basic guidelines would be

- Get yourself on a schedule and stick to it.
- Always take the opioid and cannabis doses together.
- If possible, work with a balanced ratio cannabis medicine.
- Get the cannabis dose to the level that you need to manage the pain.
- Use CBD crystals to increase the CBD ratio as needed, and for breakthrough pain. It’s always worth it to try the CBD alone for breakthrough before trying higher THC meds.
- Once you find the balance of opioid and cannabis that controls most of the pain, begin gently tapering off the opioid dose. Every week give dropping the opioid dose another try, adjusting the cannabis dose to compensate.

There are bound to be times when you can’t drop the dose without chaos ensuing. At these points stay the course, up the CBD portion of your dose, and try again after another week.

More THC at bedtime is always a good thing. Get a good night’s sleep and you are better equipped to face the day with strength and optimism.

Be sure to get in that daily ten minutes of laughing so heartily that you’re crying. And those three-breath hugs may be the best part of a SweetSue regimen

That’s enough of my ramblings. I’m determined to find ways to help you all through withdrawal. It’s not supposed to be possible to make something like this happen across a digital field, but I never paid much attention to limited thought. Lol!

DirtDemon..... hug!

And yes I find it hard to stick to my regiment. Mainly because I’m pill sick and the the easiest way to cure it is to do more pills.

 

[SweetSue]

And yes I find it hard to stick to my regiment. Mainly because I’m pill sick and the the easiest way to cure it is to do more pills.

Yeah.... and therein lies the challenge. In our world we tend to do our best to overcome it with cannabis euphoria. Be generous with the CBD. It may be what you need to break the pull.

 

[Oldbear]

Dirtdemon I wish you great success in your reduction to zero program.

I have a couple of comments:

If your Doctor cut you off cold turkey, without a proper reduction plan prescription, to me that is medical malpractice. Have you had a conversation with the Doc about your struggles and the need for such? If (s)he wont help, my next visit would be to a lawyer to discuss suing the poor misinformed soul.

I think its better understood now that high levels of thc can actually cause more pain and unwelcome symptoms than treat them. @SweetSue please let me know if I have this right. This is known to be true with opiates - continued use makes you feel worse, rather than help relieve pain.

You are taking a lot of cannabis and it doesn't sound like its helping as it should.

Do you have an opiates reduction schedule you are following? I think a 20% every couple weeks is common but verify this.

Best wishes ....