Please help; can't identify problem

[tKhrist]

I'm an amateur grower of about 2 years now and I haven't come across this before. Although, this is my first time trying ScrOG.

Just before I started budding I noticed some of my leaves were starting to get what appeared to be bumps in places on the leaves. I'm 11 days into flower now and the bumps have slowly showed up in more places, not to the point in which they're a huge problem, but I'm growing concerned. The areas with bumps that have been affected the longest have turned necrotic and have left holes in some leaves. In addition to the bumps, some leaves have began to curl down around the edges.

I'm running a 1000w hortilux dual arc with adequate ventilation through the hood, and both in and out of the room. I have used this bulb before for flowering. I'm also running a CO2 Boost bucket for the first time. The light is about 20" from the tops. The room is also about 72 degrees lights on, and 65 lights off with and average humidity of 55%. As far as fert., I use the entire Foxfarm line according to their feeding schedule, and have since I started growing. I do not foliar feed, but I do treat them with Azamax for spider mites, this is another product I'm used to using.

I'm not sure if this plays a factor in this case or not but I have 4 agent oranges, which are unaffected, 4 blue cheese's, 2 of which are affected, and 2 dick twister's, both of which are affected and are the most severely damaged. The four of them are next to each other in the room.

Below are pictures of the problems areas. I've come across a few problems in my growing career but I've never seen this before. Any help at all is greatly appreciated. Hope to hear from you soon! Thanks!

-Bumps on leaf.

-More bumps.

-Holes, upper left. Bumps/curling, center.

-Holes where bumps were.

-Holes/curling closer.

-Curling, center. Holes, right.

-Bumps, holes, and curling.

-Wide angle view of the crop, problem area is front right corner.

Thanks again!

 

[SiRStonedAlot]

Re: Please help; can't identify problem.

Whats up man. do you have a soil PH tester? (the ones with the metal probes that you stick into the soil) they sell them at most garden centers. At frist glance I would leand toward a Ph issue possibly. However, just a caviat, I consider myself a novice as well, but Im just throwing out ideas that will give us a bigger scope of the problem and your environment.

I'm currently trying to diagnose a problem myself, so the last 3 days I've seen a lot of threads/pics of issues and a couple that had PH problems had similar properties to your girls so I would say start there. I'm assuming if you've got a couple grows under your belt that you've got the basics down and are Ph'ing your water before you feed and water your girls, correct?


are you using RO water filter? or tap water? IF RO, are you using calmag along with the foxfarm line? How soon are you feeding in the FFOF, as well? I know they can run hot and not need ferts for 3-4 weeks based on the 3-4 grows I've used it in.

Peace/Good Luck

 

[ledtron]

Re: Please help; can't identify problem.

Hey tKhrist, whats up. i like your setup, looks good. The holes look like some kind of bug to me. there are some bugs that are nocturnal- only come out at night- i would check in the soil by the base of the plants if you can. i've seen slugs, worms, caterpillars, all sorts of little bastards!

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Re: Please help; can't identify problem.

I would certainly inspect for insects the bumpy bits (1st pic) look like leaf galls which are a side effect of insect bites.

Check you PH & run off asap.

The leaf deformation/irregular edges etc might be a calcium defeciency.

 

[tKhrist]

Hey everyone, thank you for the suggestions. I do not see, and have never seen any bugs or pests (besides spider mites but they were taken care of a long time ago). I have a pH test/adjustment kit from general hydroponics. I don't usually check or adjust pH because Foxfarm products say they are already pH adjusted and contain buffers.

Today I checked pH levels extensively and here's what I came up with (just to mention that the test kit is color based so these are rather general estimates):
The tap water that I use (I let it aerate in a tub with a submersible water pump and fountain attachment for at least 4 days) alone had a pH of just below 7.

The runoff from my plants was on average about 5.1, never below 5 though. Although the color of the water could have indicated a pH of 5.5 or higher, like I said, it's a color test kit and the results vary depending on how you look at it. I know this is low, so are my leaf problems the result of this?

I mixed of a gallon of my current fert. mixture and tested the pH, it was just below 6, about where FF should be.

I added pH up a little at a time to try and raise it. It took about 240 drops of the pH up before the buffer broke, and rose it to around 6.5. I watered one of the afflicted plants with this gallon to see if it'll make a difference. The rest received the regular fert. with no pH adjustment.

Also I do not use calmag, but I am planning on buying a RO next week. I take it I should start using calmag when I make the change?

 

[miwa]

Here you go ,,,could be some scale inscecteaves take on a mottled appearance and appear dusty underneath. If the leaves are shaken over a sheet of white paper, tiny moving "spiders" are seen. In severe cases, a spidery webbing stretches between leaves. Spider mites Clean plant thoroughly with soapy water. Spray with insecticidal soap. Keep the air humid to prevent a recurrence. Little balls of "cotton" (actually slow-moving insects or their egg cases) are seen on stems, at leaf axils, or on the plant's root system. Leaves yellow and may become covered with secretions. Mealybugs Touch individual insects and egg cases with a cotton swab dipped in rubbing alcohol. Spray the entire plant with a solution composed of 7 parts water and 1 part rubbing alcohol. Shell- or scalelike bumps are seen on leaves and stems. Plants may yellow or become covered with secretions. Scale insects Scrape off the shells with an old toothbrush dipped in soapy water. Treat with insecticidal soap. Green to black, round-bodied, translucent insects cluster together on new growth. Plants may yellow or become covered with secretions. Aphids Wash the plant thoroughly with a damp cloth dipped in soapy water. Treat with insecticidal soap. Tiny, white, dandrufflike insects rise up when the plant is touched. Small translucent bumps are seen underneath the leaves. Whiteflies Use a vacuum to suck up flying adults, then wash the plant thoroughly with a damp cloth dipped in soapy water. Treat with insecticidal soap. Leaves and foliage are streaked and mottled. Hyphen-sized insects scatter about when the plant is breathed upon. Tiny black excrements are found on infected plant parts. Thrips Remove severely infested flowers and foliage. Treat with insecticidal soap. New growth is distorted and turns brown and dry, eventually ceasing altogether. This problem is very host-specific, affecting mostly African violets, begonias, and cyclamens. Cyclamen mites This problem is very difficult to treat. It is often best to get rid of infected plants. An appropriate miticide or repeated insecticidal soap treatments can be used if the plant has great value. Tiny insects are seen jumping on the soil surface during watering. Springtails Springtails are basically harmless. Letting the soil dry out between waterings will discourage them. Tiny black midges are seen hovering around plants and elsewhere in the house. Grublike larvae are seen in the soil. Fungus gnats and sand flies These insects are annoying but relatively harmless to indoor plants. Letting the soil dry out between waterings will discourage them.

 

[SiRStonedAlot]

I think a soil of 5 ph is a bit acidic, some nutrients won't be available in that range. A probe soil tester will give you a better idea of what the PH of the soil is, but I'm guessing its a bit too low at this point.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

R/O water well thats like really super filtered water, even tho plants do use some of the trace/micro elements found in tap water & even chlorine to some degree.

Ye cal/mag would be of benifit as regular nutrient feed when ya change to R/O both can be considored regular nutrient defeciencys of MJ to some degree.

Mmm run off may be a tad low for a soil grow ? prolonged / low PH causes discolouration of the growing tips pale green/yellowing once PH has been stabilized this should clear up in several days.
To buffer your PH up you may like to try dolomite lime this brings PH up to 7, normally this is mixed in with the soil before potting takes place, a secondary measure is to top dress surface of pot and with every watering this will slowly work its way into the growing medium - can take a couple of weeks to see benifits tho & certianly no instant quick fix i'll wave my magic wand stuff...


Not sure what creates the floppy/wilted leaf curling bit yet ? i've seen it on my own grows & others before but not twigged on to what makes it happen yet.

 

[tKhrist]

Ill keep adjusting pH and see if that improves that plants. I'm excited to buy the RO here in a few days. Ill start up a journal thread to keep people posted throughout the rest of the grow, and ill keep checking back here for new ideas. Thanks for the suggestions guys! Happy smoking and blue skies.

 

[Ganjahoarder]

Hey everyone, thank you for the suggestions. I do not see, and have never seen any bugs or pests (besides spider mites but they were taken care of a long time ago). I have a pH test/adjustment kit from general hydroponics. I don't usually check or adjust pH because Foxfarm products say they are already pH adjusted and contain buffers.

Today I checked pH levels extensively and here's what I came up with (just to mention that the test kit is color based so these are rather general estimates):
The tap water that I use (I let it aerate in a tub with a submersible water pump and fountain attachment for at least 4 days) alone had a pH of just below 7.

The runoff from my plants was on average about 5.1, never below 5 though. Although the color of the water could have indicated a pH of 5.5 or higher, like I said, it's a color test kit and the results vary depending on how you look at it. I know this is low, so are my leaf problems the result of this?

I mixed of a gallon of my current fert. mixture and tested the pH, it was just below 6, about where FF should be.

I added pH up a little at a time to try and raise it. It took about 240 drops of the pH up before the buffer broke, and rose it to around 6.5. I watered one of the afflicted plants with this gallon to see if it'll make a difference. The rest received the regular fert. with no pH adjustment.

Also I do not use calmag, but I am planning on buying a RO next week. I take it I should start using calmag when I make the change?

Have you checked for bugs w a 30x mag glass.....some bugs you can't see with the naked eye.

 

[tKhrist]

I just checked with my 30x and can't find anything. I'll get some neem oil and fly strips this week to try and further rule out bugs, but like I said, I do regularly treat for pests even if none are present as a deterrent. I should add that I live in Michigan and it's cold as hell here right now. Not a lot of bugs around this time of year, even in my basement.

 

[oldred28]

sticky aphid/whitefly traps placed around plants will show quickly if you have any bugs lot easier to see on the bright yellow background.
looks like insect damage to me.

 

[tKhrist]

Thank you for the suggestion, I will try that as well. I'll pick some up next time I head to the store and see if anything turns up.

 

[DEAN420]

what you been feeding them bro?? because they look over fertilized with nitrogen, which is probably going to give u a salt build if not already...

 

[oldred28]

hasn't been that cold, mild winter det area.
the curly leaves look like over watering to me, do you have a moisture meter that will probe down to the bottom of the pots? it should almost dry out between waterings. i would pull one out of the pot and inspect the root ball. they should be white. if they are brownish you should transplant into larger pot with dry soil around and under root ball just dont disturb roots too much and be a bit stingy on the water until they look better.
i have had this problem a few times in the last 3 decades, always when in the basement!
i'd go back to veg till they look better, or your yeild will suffer.
personally, i don't care for scrog, makes it difficult to get in to fix a problem. you can get same or better results just tying down branches, also if your not in any hurry to finish, you can let them flower for 3 weeks or so then go back veg for a while they will bush out like crazy, yeild will blow your mind. IMO co2 system can cause issues, i just make sure i have lots of fresh air in and air circulation. co2 is heavier than air so it can tend to rob your roots of oxy. MOST IMPORTANTLY, KEEP IT SIMPLE! advanced techniques may provide excelent results but their is a big learning curve.
hope this helps a bit, good luck!

 

[oldred28]

Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver: Pictorial
if you havent seen it yet this page is a must read.