Problems

[kaption]

Well it seemed that they were getting better but now its worse than ever.
coco/perlite mix
H&G cocos A&B , H&G Roots exl, H&G Drip Clean. My algen extract became very clumpy and i can no longer use it.
ph 5.8

I Have bonticare cal/mag, but have not been using it since i use tap water.
At first i thought it was a nitro def. because of the yellowing.
My new growth was still green until recently.
Now it seems the plant as a whole is starting to turn pale/lighter green, and growth seems to have slowed down.

At first i thought i wasnt using enough cocos a&b, so i started upping the dose. Now im starting to think its a cal/mag problem. Like i said
Im not adding cal/mag cause im using tap water, but im starting to think i should.

This is what the problems leaves are doing after they yellow.

 

[kaption]

Re: Problems..

Oh and even some of the leaves that are not yellowing (towards the top) are curling down at the tips.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Re: Problems..

Ye thats one fceked leaf...

Kinda need some details...

Stage of growth veg or flower ?

Nutrients used at present feed ?

Photos of other leafs in early stage of problem/helps with diagnosis ?

Any PH problems ?


I'm kinda thinking nutrient lock... maybe high levels of P - Phosphorous (tint of red/purple in leaf - red leaf stem), which may lead to Fe - Iron defeciency both of these can lead to slow growth, could also be some co-symptoms involved also ?

A good flush might well be over due here...

 

[kaption]

Re: Problems..

almost 2 months into veg.

This is per gal.
5.0 ml cocos A&B
.5ml roots exl
.4 Drip Clean
1.0 ml sea kelp

Ph 5.8 everytime

They started off by yellowing slightly then just kinda got worse.
Some of the leaves towards the tops are not yellow but they are curling down with yellowing tips.
Some of the leaves not only seem like the tips are curling down, but the edges are curling down aswell making like an upside down canoe.
Some of stems are purple as well but i think they always were.
some leaves that have no yellowing appear healthly other than the leaves looking "wavy" or "rippled"
not sure if that makes sense. I could try to take pics if needed.

The problem is somthing to do with nutes for sure.
Everything else checks out; humidity, light, air, temps, ph.

 

[towney314]

Re: Problems..

Hi can anyone tell me how to start a thred? My plant is healthy but the new leaves are curling under anyone help?

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

From what i'm aware of leaf crinkling could be assoiated with Ca - calcium defeciency this normally occurs on younger leafs, in some ways i think i got this going on with my own grow.

E.g

Calcium plays an important role in maintaining cell integrity and membrane permeability.

Calcium Deficiency

Young leaves are affected first and become small and distorted or chlorotic with irregular margins, spotting or necrotic areas. Bud development is inhibited, blossom end rot and internal decay may also occur and root may be under developed or die back. Deficiency will cause root tip die-back, leaf tip curl and marginal necrosis and chlorosis primarily in younger leaves. Symptoms: young leaves develop chlorosis and distortion such as crinkling, dwarfing, developing a strap-like shape, shoots stop growing and thicken.

Calcium Toxicity

Difficult to distinguish visually. May precipitate with sulfur in solution and cause clouding or residue in tank. Excess calcium may produce deficiencies in magnesium and potassium.

Another niggling lil feeling might be this...

Immobile elements will show their first symptoms on younger leaves and progress to the whole plant.
Sulphur (S)

Sulfate is involved in protein synthesis and is part of the amino acids, cystine and thiamine, which are the building blocks of proteins. It is active in the structure and metabolism in the plant. It is essential for respiration and the synthesis and breakdown of fatty acids.

Sulphur (S) deficiency

The initial symptoms are the yellowing of the entire leaf including veins usually starting with the younger leaves. Leaf tips may yellow and curl downward. Sulfur deficiencies are light green fruit or younger leaves with a lack of succulence. Elongated roots and woody stem. Although many varieties of cannabis do get purplish stems, the trait generally extends the entire length of the plant's stem.


As for leaf tip curling lots of defeciencys can/may show signs of tip curl.


At the very worst you might be suffering with a multipul nutrient defeciency.

A bottle of nutrients which contain the complete trace of macro/micro nutrients might be of some use here with your regular feeding cycle, i believe H&G do a Multi Enzym.

The thing about A & B nutes/grow/bloom etc is that they are normally optimal for that specific phase of growth but don't totally cover the rest of micro nutrients.
Check your bottle labels to see whats missing as an option...

 

[kaption]

Ive continued to research the problem and i think your right fuzzy.
First I noticed the yellowing, then some of the yellowing leaves started showing those spots. Then the tips of my top growth started to curl under. Not the whole leaf, just the very tip. I've read that even ppl that use tap water still run a cal/mag sup. when using H&G. Maybe thats where im going wrong.

A buddy told me i may be watering too much at one time.
I water just to get a little run off, hes says watering till run off is too much.
I usually go 4 days between waterings (when my pots are light), my coco doesnt dry out fast, even mixed with perlite. My temps range from 70f at night to 85f max. I never ph my run off with coco, just what i put in.

I just transplanted them into 5gal containers. So im not sure how often ill be watering now.
I usually water about half a gallon per 5gal pot (for little run off) This is where my buddy said 4 or 5 cups max for each pot. That sounds crazy to me, i water way less this grow compared to my last. Last grow each pot was watered with a full gallon and almost every 2 - 3 days max.

I never water with just plain or ph'd water, always nutes. Am i in need of a rinse?
Right now im currently 60 days in veg & feeding;

5.0 ml A&B
1.0 rootz exl
.4 drip clean.
per gallon

I was thinking of dropping the A&B to 4.0
dropping the drip clean all together and adding 1.0ml cal/mag.
Should i keep using tap and add the cal/mag? Go a round with distilled and add cal/mag?
Should i start the multi enzyme even tho im still in veg?

Sorry about all the questions. I can take pics if someone is intrested..

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Hello Kaption good to see ya come back with some more info & pictures are always welcome


Mmm watering ah.

We all got our own ways of watering & i supose we can boil it down to...

1. Little & often daily.

2. Gulg, gulg, gulg every few days.

Its just choosing what works best for you & getting a feel for girls needs

(prolonged over watering & dryness can cause nutrient lock)

As for the choice of tap water over distilled water, i don't think it makes much difference ultimately its just a slight change of ph value & avialable trace elements in either of them.
If using tap water leave to stand for 24 hours for chlorine to escape.


I believe in prevention of defeciencys before they happen.

Hence i use Ca/Mg with every other watering as a prevention, both of these nutrients are common defeciencys with MJ as it use's more of them.

I've also started using chelated Fe - iron / Mn - manganese, iron is very slow moving nutrient through out the plant with chelated forms of iron its more avialable and easy absorbed by the plant.
Chelated - DPTA, EDDHA - editted update H&G coco A&B does have trace Fe eddha - chelated.


A flush could be benificial to help rinse any built up salts out as you got to treat coco like any other inert growing medium, may be a flush every 10 to 14 days as an act of prevention as a suggestion ?

The multi enzym i don't think it will hurt the plants in the growth stage, sounds quite useful from what i've read about it... you can always seek advice from your local hydro shop to whether its a good idea to use it with coco.



As you recently repotted what was the state of your roots e.g root balled in the smaller pot ? (might be a problem)

Anyway keep us informed on the matter & get some pic's up for ol fuzzy to have a gander at

 

[kaption]

It has been about 4 or 5 days since i last watered. The fist couple inches are damp, not moist but the pots are still heavy so its still pretty wet towards the bottom.

Here is where i am at a crossroads. Do i water a little bit to get the top couple of inches or let it dry completely out then water heavy? Usually i would wait but the only reason I'm not sure now is because the last time i fed i didn't use cal/mag and i feel that is where my problem is.

I made my feed again today, this time i used distilled water.
5.0 ml Cal/Mag+
4.0 ml cocos A&B then ph'd to 5.9
3.0 ml Multi Zen
1.0 ml Roots Exl

5.0ml of cal/mag+ put my ppms at 200 as a starting point. Is this right?

Now the pictures.
(note: I transplanted and cloned 5 days ago, this may have added stress on top of what problems i already had.)

Group

Auto fruit @ 53 days from seed.
I know shes small, Its my first auto and i was way behind on giving flowering nutes. Plus shes only under 18/6

& Auto Crit

Some of the healthier looking gals.

Twisty and wavy leafs.

Yellowing and leafs cupping and curling down.

Little burn probably from when i shot the nutes from 3.5ml to 5.0ml
I've backed them down to 4.0ml

This looks like cal/mag def?

N and cal/mag def?

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Brilliant pic's loving the eye candy, shows alot of info

I don't think it would be N - nitrogen as you coco A&B should easy cover those needs plus nitrogen defeciency can/does look a few other symptoms.


Your plants certainly look like they could do with a drop of ol Mg -magnesium i'm sure of that, once you have started with Ca/Mg feed a change of leaf colour should be seen from 24 hours to 72 hours time aprox/ leafs don't always totally recover 100% tho.

Could also be a touch of Mn - manganese which looks like a cross betwen P/Fe defeciency at a glance.

 

[pchydroponics]

By chance do you smoke cigs or use any tobacco products, often TMZ is often a culprit for problems that are midiagnosed as deficiencies in n p k just a bit of info Tobacco Moziac Virus TMZ please excuse any errors in my spelling.
The Ole Man

 

[kaption]

I smoke cigs, but not in my house. I dont even go in my room if i have smoked recently.

I fed them with distilled water and added 5ml of cal/mag+ per gal.
The color has alrdy started to correct its self and my rapid growth has already started back up.
Now i just have to wait 1 more week and i can put them under 12/12.
4 of the ladies are almost 4 ft tall leaving a couple of the others behind and ive had to move the light further away than id like.

The tall ones are the ones that have alrdy been top'd or fim'd.
So my question is; I want to throw them into flowering asap.
If i top or fim agian would that start my 2 week wait over?
I want to try to have them all around the same height.
They are getting very tall now and i dont want to run out of vert. space.

On a good note, half of my clones are alrdy showing roots through the rapid rooters.
Im only on day 7. This will be my first time going from clone. Anything i need to be aware of that i might not be since im usually a bean grower?

 

[pchydroponics]

Now that we have established that you dont have tmv do use hydrogen peroxide? try it i sell 35% at my store and it works extremely well for a weekly treatment. Have a good holiday the Ole Man

 

[kaption]

Ive never used h202, Think i read somewhere not to use it with roots exl.

 

[Wingman420]

kaption my brother i think you may be overthinking this you have large fan leaves and older leaves turning clorotic (yellow) drying up, and dying off. This is unsustainable and will hurt you in Flower unbelievably. I would check the underside of those leaves for insects like Spider Mites and get some SNS-217 if you have them and watch the plants go back to a Healthy Green! IMHO

 

[kaption]

Overthinking? you bet! I've been losing sleep trying to think about whats going on in there. I have spent atleast 15 hrs researching, trying to figure this out.

Bugs? absolutely not. I am still kinda new to this so i dunno too much about deficiencies, But i do know that i do not have any kind of pests. Not even gnats.

Like I have said before i am using tap water that has sat for 24hrs then i use a huge airstone for a couple of hours before mixing my nutes. Then i let my nutes sit for another 24 hrs. check ph agian to make sure its still 5.8 - 6.0.

I water with about a half gallon to each 5 gal pot. I usually water till little run off, still havent decided if thats too much. Usually go about 4-5 days without watering then hit them agian.

I never flush, never use plain or ph'd water. When i was having problems i collected runoff and it was at 6.0 ph, Dont think it was a ph issue.

2 things lead me to believe it was either a N or cal/mag deficiencies.

Besides the yellowing, spots, curling tips, and how the growth almost stopped all together for almost a week.

While this was happening i made the decision to clone. Yes i know it was added stress and i debated this forever. I concluded that even tho it may stress them on top of the already apparent deficiencies. I felt i needed to clone now cause i might lose everything. I have read that clones root better if N is leeched before taking cuttings. Well I've never had clones root in 5 days.

The clones i took had roots comming out of the rapid rooters in 5 days, and im talking think crazy hairy roots. I only used olivia's and plain tap water.
So I thought maybe i was right on the N def.

My problem seemed to be corrected a couple days after i switched to distilled water and added my own cal/mag .

I use H&G and I have seen that the K in the cocos a&b is high.
Doesnt high amounts of K lock up cal/mag? Should i have been adding xtra cal/mag to the tap water to make up for the excessive amount of K ? I know that tap already has cal/mag but maybe i still needed more?

Its been 3 days since ive changed to distilled and added cal/mag, and my girls have exploded! Im not sure if i will ever use tap water agian unless i drop H&G.

Still would like to know if i can cut some of my taller ladies back down. I want them all around the same size, but i dont want to wait 2 weeks longer to flower.
Im going to run out of vert space very soon.