Producing Feminized Seeds Using Colloidal Silver

[Dr.Blue]

As to refrigerating the pollen. I put my pollen in a old style 35 mm film canister with some rice. When I took it out of the refrigerator I waited till it reached room temp before i opened it, then allowed it to sit for a couple of hours before using with the cap off. If I were to freeze the pollen I would put it in a film canister with rice and then into a small glass jar and do the same thing I did when I refrigerated it.

 

[DennyinCA]

Like I said. I did not store, dry or in any other way manipulate the pollen sacs after I picked them. I picked them off and tapped them over the buds 1 by 1.
It has to be something with the pollen.

Sorry NotaDrinker, I was being lazy by not backing up the whole thread, to find your original posts on your pollination method, but it's embarrassing to see the above post right before I asked the question. I'm thinking my display was not updated, and I missed the above post.

I'm there rambling on wasting space here. It looks like you've pointed out the big difference.

 

[Kaiser Sose 3]

Amazing!

 

[paw-paw]

this info can be very valuable, especially to growers w/limited space. glad i read this.

 

[NotaDrinker]

LOL, No worries m8. If it took less effort for me to repeat it than it would have for you to search for it, then it was more efficient that way anyways . And besides, like the rest of you I'm sure, my short term memory is shot just the same .
Best Wishes.

Edit: Just wanted to throw up a pic of some clones that was meant to get feminized FI pollen. This flower was taken from the original plant that was selfed. When I decided to self instead of pollinating a clone, I threw them in the flower box with everything else and let them go. I know for sure that they are baring a few seeds themselves, but were a little late to accept full pollination and therefore flowered nicely. Basically it is a preview of what it to come out of those feminized seeds I made from these exact genetics. I chose focus on the best one of course, but you can still see 2 of the other 3 in the background. All in the same 10x10 square pot.
Still another week or two to go I think. Still a lot of fresh white hairs.

I wish you could open the full size pics when you link them like this on this site.

Best Wishes!

 

[Granny420]

Mmmm, my bet is the nonviable pollen. Like, maybe it is like this. If you pollinate a stigma with nonviable pollen, then you have rendered it useless. When you re-pollinate, the only stigmas that have a chance, are the ones that were spared the first failed attempt. That's the only thing I can think of.

I didn't do any drying, crushing or anything. I used fresh pollen that was plucked seconds before, and I tapped the sacs directly over and around the areas I wanted to pollinate. I could see the pollen floating in the air. The sacs that released pollen the easiest took no effort to remove at all. They basically fell of into the tweezers, and these are the ones I pollinated with.

How long from pollination harvest for those tiny seeds Granny? They look very small, but I did read and see some pics of seeds of all sizes and shades, so maybe they are ready.

Considering that your male pollinations went well, the issue must be with the feminized pollen, or the process or CS used to make it... Maybe the CS you used has a stabilizer in it or something? Try making your own, it is simple, and very cheap.
But I dunno Granny. I wish I knew what I was doing so that I could steer you in the right direction.

LUVIES TO EVERYONE!!!

Short on time, so this will be a quick one!!!

paw paw and ks3!!!!

NotADrinker - for responding with your method of pollination!!!

I think you hit it exactly that the problem is in the pollen. I think I have not been waiting long enough for the sacs to be ready, especially early on in this experiment. I also have not been having sacs that I can just shake and have immediate release - so that info is VERY IMPORTANT!!!!

AND I LOVE THE LIL PURPLE PLANT!!!! BEAUTIFUL COLORING!!! NICE THICK GROWTH TOO!!! I SURE SEE WHY YOU ARE BREEDING THAT ONE!!!

DennyInCA too!!! I greatly appreciated this...
A pistillate flower cluster is ripe for fertilization so long as pale, slender pistils emerge from the calyxes. Cannabis plants can be successfully pollinated as soon as the first primordia show pistils and until just before harvest, but the largest yield of uniform, healthy seeds is achieved by pollinating in the peak floral stage. At this time, the seed plant is covered with thick clusters of white pistils. Few pistils are brown and withered, and resin production has just begun. This is the most receptive time for fertilization, still early in the seed plant's life, with plenty of time remaining for the seeds to mature.

The TBM was quite far into flowering when I pollinated it - thus, this could be a good reason for only 5 seeds - and it probably didn't help that I didn't wait long enough for lot's of viable pollen. Multiple applications - I have definitely been doing this - but I have to make sure the sacs are browning so the pollen I am using is viable with each pollination!!! It's all good cuz I'm learning!!!

QUIX Hi Honey!!! Wonderful to see you!

DOC for the refrigeration of pollen info!!!! Do you dry it before you refrigerate it or do you put it in there fresh??? How's the "wait" going for pollen, honey? It sure does take quite some time to get thru this process!!! It is SO WORTH THE WAIT THO!!! I figure even if my seed count number wasn't so good initially - it is still fantastic to have 5 fem seeds from a free plant (TBM - had one more seed in her that I found after completely drying her) and 10 from a strain that I started from sacrificing a single plant. Even if the initial number of seeds is low - they have left me with 5 to 10 times more seeds than I started with for those strains!!! AND I LEARNED!!! Hopefully you will have better seed counts just from watchin' me flail in the water here!!! LOL!!!

QUESTION ABOUT GERMINATING FRESH SEEDS: Does anyone know if fresh seeds can be popped and germinated immediately with good germination success? I seem to recall a freeze (after drying) is recommended to increase the germination success so I did stick my seeds in the freezer (no room to grow them just yet).

Last... I will update with a couple pics of a small Red Dragon clone I am using to pollinate. This one let me know that I am on the right track with suspecting what my problem is (not taking sacs that are viable yet - WAIT FOR BROWNING SACS OR IT IS A WASTE OF TIME AND WON'T BE AS SUCCESSFUL!!!)

Below is the clone designated for Red Dragon seeds (although I also have a RD plant I just recently put to flower in case the pollen wasn't ready in time for this clone.

If you look, you can see tags on a couple branches on the right (for RD feminized pollen) and a tag on a left branch (crossed with male Papaya pollen).

Below is a bud from the branch I pollinated with a cross of male Papaya pollen (regular seeds - not fem) on Jan 30th...

Above, you can see the male pollen took nicely with a single pollination.

Below, is a bud from the branch I pollinated with RD female pollen (fem seeds) on Feb 1st with pollen from a RD plant I turned with CS...

You can see I definitely have a number of seeds forming on this one. However, I have since re-pollinated and expect more seeds will be showing in the next week to 10 days.

I also have the same thing going on with other strains that I crossed one branch with the male Papaya and bred another branch with it's same-strain female pollen. I see seeds on both branches, but more on the male pollen branch. So I am being a lot more picky when taking pollen sacs in making sure they are ONLY the most finished/browned sacs. And I am RE-pollinating once weekly instead of just leaving it at the first pollination that I think took. I think this will also increase my seed numbers. Guess I'll find out down the road!!!

Early on in this experiment I was taking female pollen sacs BEFORE they browned (had read when the sacs cracked they were ready - but is NOT true if they are still green or yellow-green!!!). I kept re-pollinating cuz these didn't appear to pollinate very well. As I continued this experiment, I learned that browner sacs had better success. But my early pollinated girls may not have as many seeds for this reason. I bet I do better as we progress here!!! That's my goal anyways!!!

Wish so much that I had more time!!!!! But alas, life is overwhelmingly busy and no chance of slowing down until after my business peak season slows (July)... until then it just keeps getting busier and busier - but I NEED it (financially) to be busy now, so I am not complaining!!! Just letting you all know it will probably be once a week updates for awhile.

Keep the home fires burnin' here everyone!!! I MISS YOU ALL!!!

 

[NotaDrinker]

Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me was having pollen come out of the sacs with nothing more than a light tap of the tweezers. Like I said, these sacs all but fell off into the tweezers, often falling into the small cup I had under it in preparation. These sacs were not cracked, but were more-so fully opened with nanners fully exposed and ready to release pollen.
Great to hear that you do have success Granny. With that in mind, I am sure you will be pleasantly pleased with next attempt.

Best Wishes.

 

[Dr.Blue]

Well I have attained success I think. I collected some pollen that fell onto the typing paper and used it on one of the other Diesels in flower. and today i can see the pistols withering where I brushed them lightly with a pollen covered paint brush. So Diesel can be kept quietly in a cool, dry, dark place while I try some other strains when I recover the seeds 3-4 weeks from now. Thanks everyone. By then I will have a camera and will record the birth of my feminized seeds! I am also going to dry some more of the male flowers and refrigerate for future use. This is still ongoing.

 

[NotaDrinker]

Great Job! If the pollen fell naturally, than it is almost sure to be viable!
Make that 4-6 weeks from now,,, depending on you intended seed maturity rate.
Another week or two for me would have been the icing on the cake. I would have had an extra 20 seeds or so. No big deal, but no need to rush it...
Good luck with the refrigeration!

 

[Dr.Blue]

The plant is putting out nanners, male flowers and partially opened male flowers. Took it long enough! It's bud parts that are not affected have the most beautiful amber hues to them, too bad no pipe for them.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Granny,

Here's an excerpt from an article specifically on cannabis seeds that addresses your question regarding the freezing of the seeds:

Seed Dormancy

Seed dormancy is a naturally occurring ‘survival factor’ found within many species of plant. Under ‘natural conditions’ the dormancy of cannabis seeds is quite normal. The “over-wintering” of seed is then a naturally occurring phenomenon. That is, when under dormancy (even where perfect germination conditions exist) a seed will NOT germinate! Under “artificial conditions” cultivated plants tend to display lower levels of dormancy. The seed of cultivated plants, especially those used for food, have an unnaturally shallow dormancy period. The ‘survival factor’ has quite literally been bred out of popular cultivar in order to ensure a homogeneous crop/harvest.

There are three different types of seed dormancy – Exogenous Dormancy (external), Endogenous Dormancy (internal), and Combined Dormancy (external and/or internal):

Exogenous Dormancy is governed by the external covering of the seed itself (the seed coat). With Cannabis the seeds coat is relatively thick. The seed is slowly permeable to water via a fissure line in the shell. This mechanical resistance inhibits dormancy. A period of warmth, followed by a period of cold usually encourages germination.

Endogenous Dormancy involves the internal development of the seed embryo (both morphological and physiological). Whilst internal seed morphology is aided by ‘warm stratification’, both small and immature embryos are always found in combination with another type of dormancy (mostly physiological). Physiological endogenous dormancy is the most common type of dormancy found in nature. An inhibitor inside the embryo and/or an incomplete chain of chemical reactions imposes dormancy. Annual species such Cannabis experiences a relatively ‘shallow dormancy’ period. Shallow dormancy can be overcome by “after ripening” (drying seed). A period of ‘cold stratification’ is then required in order for physiological dormancy to be complete. Growers use cold-rooms and refrigerators for this reason.

Combination Dormancy is displayed when several types of dormancy (often internal and external) are displayed in the same seed. This may involve exogenous dormancy (a seed coat), coupled alongside endogenous morphological resistance (embryo development), alongside physiological dormancy (a shallow inhibitor), all within the same seed structure. Cannabis seed display ‘combination dormancy’. The underdeveloped embryos MUST first develop into their full size during a period of ‘warm stratification’ before a period of ‘cold stratification’ can be effective.The best way to test levels of ‘seed dormancy’ against levels of ‘seed viability’ is to play with seeds. Try keeping collectives of marijuana cannabis seeds under different conditions (dry, wet, hot, cold…). Then sow each seed group into separate trays of soil. Place each tray into a contrasting environment (dry, wet, hot, cold…) make note and record the results.

Seed Development

Seed development is a funny old thing… it never ceases to amaze. The smaller the seed, the more amazing the transformation from genetic time capsule into seedling. Let’s face it, this is where the ingrained magic of growing anything begins. What the people in white coats like to call “plant science” is in fact just Mother Nature doing her own thing. Now people may call on the traditionalists, but cannabis seeds like things best in soil. There is just no escaping this. With ‘paper towel’ and ‘glass of water’ methods people can look, touch, and prod the seed as it germinates (and we’d like to think this is one of the best ways to learn about the habit of seeds). Seed development is however an extremely delicate process. For this reason seed development is often perhaps best left untouched by hand.

The germination and viability of seed is foremost governed by patterns of seed dormancy. Only once the natural cycle of embryo development is complete will the germination of seed successfully begin! Fresh cannabis seeds are usually far less viable than those that have been subjected to dry conditions (warm stratification) followed by cool conditions (cold stratification) prior to sowing. Only following a period of dormancy can then true seed germination and accurate measurements of seed viability begin. Before this seedlings tend to be weak.

 

[420GodsTrichome]

Blogging this brother, much better wrote then what I could explain!

 

[Dr.Blue]

Many times I have read that to overcome seed dormancy you freeze the seeds as it mimics them going through winter. I have also read that waiting 3 months before trying to germinate the seeds is a good idea. As an aside, My diesel plants that were in flower at 4 weeks or so went through very cold night temps of around 37 degrees F and popped up several hermie flowers that in fact did self pollinate some of the buds! So no matter what I was going to be gifted feminized Diesel seeds. My AKxSk#1 that were in flower and started at the same time the cutting Diesel used for this project are now finished. Dried for 4 days in a bud dryer and now in the jars I had to do a test bud. 2 light hits left me flying for three hours and the small bowl is still half full! I took the first AKxSK#1 that flowered as a cutting mother and the cuttings made last monday are rooting very nicely. They will occupy the next grow. This plant is as tricome covered as the best ones shown here and the high is a tall one not for sleeping. After a weeks cure I will go down to the local smoking spot and ambush my friends with a fattie of this stuff.

 

[NotaDrinker]

I had read posts that tested the viability of fresh seeds vs seeds that were allowed to dry out for a few weeks. The results were obvious. Fresh seeds are not ready to be germinated. I can't find the thread, and I can't remember the stats exactly, but it was significant. Like 10% germination of fresh seeds vs 90% germination of dried seeds (or something like that, it was a significant difference whatever it was).

My seeds have been in the basement in Advil bottles with the rice. The temp fluctuates from about 10-15 Celsius depending on if the lights are on and if has been opened, or if the heater is on.
I hope this will be sufficient. Any opinions?
How long do I keep the rice in there? Forever should be just fine right?

Scrog screen is almost ready, and I will be testing these seeds soon. I intend on attempting to germinate the worst looking seeds first. I only will have 2 plants in this scrog, so I though it would be a good time to see how the worst looking ones fared.

Hopefully, if a few of the worst looking ones sprout, it will mean that the better looking ones should be viable too.

On another note. The unknown strain of which I have 3 small clones flowering now, has slightly hermied. Could be anything from the drastic temp changes to the temp or distance changes in the lighting, to heat from the lights or who knows. They have been in flower for about 7 weeks too, so maybe it is just them trying to survive, but I will have to pay attention to that strain when I grow it out next time. The FI however shows no signs of hermie-ing, and with all the crap I have subjected that strain to during these tests I am amazed that it hasn't. I am really looking forward to growing those out, and in fact I will start with them.
I would suggest that strain for anyone looking for a short well build plant with some color and that can take a hell of a beating. Perfect for beginners.

But ya, I didn't freeze or refrigerate my seeds. Only the cool basement. What do you guys think? I think it should be fine, but all this talk has me wondering.

Best Wishes

 

[DennyinCA]

I haven't updated in a while, so here goes. First off, congrats to all who have had a success story. The pics included in the last posting by both Granny, and NotaDrinker are awesome! Experience really is a great teacher, and having folks share their experiences here just amplifies the learning.

I have been applying pollen to my plants for the past 3 days now. Since I have a nice stash and this whole effort is about seeing if I can make feminized seeds, I'm pollinating everything that has white pistils on it. The half and half plant (I sprayed half of it's branches), looks like it's definitely past it peak flowering stage, with lots of pistils turning red. Today is exactly 6 weeks into flowering. So, it's a little doubtful if it can still be pollinated at this point, and if it does, whether it will have enough life left in it to grow seeds to maturity. But I'll try anyway. Even the female branches of this plant are a bit weird, but I took no special precautions to insure that my silver spay didn't get on an unintended target. I'm seeing some signs of male properties even in some of the female buds, so it will be interesting to see how it ends up. Anyway the pistils I pollinated turned by the next day, which I gather is normal if the pollen takes, however they were changing colors so fast on their own that it's hard to tell. Just have to wait.

My female who was the intended recipient is not as hardy as I'd like. She went into flowering only a week after the she/he. I was afraid she's be too far into flowering to pollinate so I've been pruning, and topping her to try to slow down the rate she was growing and maturing at. It worked somewhat. Mostly white pistils, but smaller buds as a result of having many smaller branches. But, I'm pollinating everything in sight. Right now I've got these two plants side by side, with a male branch pulled over the top of the female. After harvest, I'll probably just break up every female bud, looking for seeds, and try making butter or hash with it.

The clone I started as a backup is struggling badly. I took it when the female was already a few weeks into flowering, and while it has started to root, still no sign of any growth, and leaves are getting a yellow tint.

So, for the past 3 days, I've tried to identify pollen sacs that are ready to release. (not easy). I pick them with tweezers and tap over a female bud. If it drops pollen, great. Initially, if it didn't release, I'd store it in a container till it dried and then apply with a q-tip, but at this point I'll only use what drops readily. I'll continue this for a few more days, and see what develops. After that I'll tap sacs or entire male flowers over a container and store for now.

I feel my experiment has gotten a little out of control, but what I learned by doing, and reading about others results, makes the effort totally worth it. I know exactly how I would do the next one. And only time will reveal the final outcome on this one. I'll let you know.

To Notadrinker: I have no experience with storing seeds, but I would bet that yours are fine. It seems dry is most important, and your temp is on the cool side. Do you see a downside in refrigerating them?

Looks like Doc is on his way to a success story.

I wish continued good luck to all.

 

[Dr.Blue]

A success story and plenty of seeds femmed for an outside grow back in the tulles. Hopefully the renegade Diesel pollen will get some of the AKxWW buds in there also. Heck go the whole grow for Femmed seeds.

 

[OG13]

Hey NOTA, I've always kept seeds cool and dark (in basement), never frozen or refrigerator. Works great. Some have been viable after 20 years.

Denny, it's always fun when your experiment gets a little out of control and you know what to do different next time.

 

[NotaDrinker]

Thank you OG, that really makes me feel better.

 

[Kaiser Sose 3]

OK I have a question. I have a plant that is showing male tendencies(Tall Stick Figure).

If I use colloidal silver would that create fem seeds on this male?

Or do I take a female and apply colloidal silver to create fem seeds?

I think I misunderstood originally?

I just reread the first page. SO what can I do with a 20" tall White Widow plant that I think will go male? That is besides chop it down into kindling......

 

[Mr. Krip]

OK I have a question. I have a plant that is showing male tendencies(Tall Stick Figure).

If I use colloidal silver would that create fem seeds on this male?

Or do I take a female and apply colloidal silver to create fem seeds?

I think I misunderstood originally?

CS should be used on a natural female to get the female to produce pollen (like a male would). The pollen will have female genetics, and when used to pollenate another female, will result in feminized seeds.