Seeds Popped: What’s The Next Move?

[Reave]

That's a sound approach.
A good way to get close to dead on accurate without a PAR meter is to calibrate Photone against a known good light source. If there's a legit review of your light on YouTube, you could use their PAR map to get in the ballpark.

I'd be interested in hearing how you use Photone. How has it impacted the amount of light that you're giving your plants vs when you weren't using it or were you pretty well dialed in?

I was pretty dialed in already but I had my lights dimmed so on my last flower I actually ran the light at full power and quite close to the plants about a foot. I was trying to get the PAR up to what was recommended. Then I was listening to a podcast and the dude said anything over 550 par and you need c02.

Now I bought a infrared thermometer and this time one going to worry more about holding 1Kpa , leaf temp between 72-78 and a humidity of 75 about. If I can do this while hitting 550 par.

problem with calibrating is I built my light so not a lot of folks are using my exact boards in the spread configuration a mounted them in specifically to spread par evenly across the tent.

 

[Delps8]

Reave:
"I was pretty dialed in already but I had my lights dimmed so on my last flower I actually ran the light at full power and quite close to the plants about a foot. I was trying to get the PAR up to what was recommended. Then I was listening to a podcast and the dude said anything over 550 par and you need c02."
Maximizing the amount of light that I can give plants is one of my goals, as well, but I don’t think that a PPFD of only 550 requires CO2. I can’t cite a source but I’ve read a few research papers, lots of web pages, and have gone through the Dr. Bugbee’s YouTube videos and I’m pretty certain the the PPFD level that “requires” CO2 is over 1k. The reason I think it’s that high is because numerous sources recommend values to at least 500 in flower so as to avoid lower yields.
I’ll post come links here as I come across them though it might be a good topic for a new thread.

"Now I bought a infrared thermometer and this time one going to worry more about holding 1Kpa , leaf temp between 72-78 and a humidity of 75 about. If I can do this while hitting 550 par."
Great numbers! We’re on the same track, it sounds like. Though you’ve actually got something growing…

How are you tracking temp and RH? I’ve using sensors from Acurite but have decided to go with a Pulse One.

Also, how do you control temp and RH? I’m using a 2’ x 4’ tent in an unheated garage in SoCal. I’ve been using a humidifier to boost RH (we had some single digit RH last week, for example) but, with summer coming up, I’ve decided to try auto flowers so that I can avoid the here. Unfortunately, my (book) knowledge and limited experience is with photos so I’ve got to retrain my focus on AF’s.

 

[Reave]

I’m using an ink bird humidity controller. It has a plug for a humidifier and a dehumidifier. It also has a sensor. To control the heat I just adjust my light until the leaves are the right temp. Either turn up the watts or lower it.

also I got that information about the ppfd from a top end grower on KiS organics podcast. I think it was episode 9 and 10. Nelson Lidsey. If it wasnt him it was another guy around close to that podcast number. I’ll listen again to see if I can find the time stamp.

 

[Reave]

The dude gets 90grams per square foot. I’m inclined to try out his suggestions.

Episode 9 start listening at about 50 minutes. But those two podcasts 9 and 10 have great information.

 

[Delps8]

"I’m using an ink bird humidity controller. It has a plug for a humidifier and a dehumidifier."
Good idea. I’m using a Levoit humidifier that has wireless capability but I still need to futz with it over the course of the day. An Inkbird would take care automagically.

"To control the heat I just adjust my light until the leaves are the right temp. Either turn up the watts or lower it."
That’s pretty straightforward, eh?

"KiS organics podcast. I think it was episode 9 and 10. Nelson Lidsey. If it wasnt him it was another guy around close to that podcast number. I’ll listen again to see if I can find the time stamp."
I appreciate the offer.

"The dude gets 90grams per square foot. I’m inclined to try out his suggestions."
Agree completely. That’s > 800 gm/m2 = seriously successful.

"Episode 9 start listening at about 50 minutes. But those two podcasts 9 and 10 have great information."
Super. Thanks for posting that. I’ll check it out.

 

[Reave]

Not sure if you know this but you can highlight the text you want and hit the +quote button then press the insert quote button under the posting sections to insert all the clips you quoted at once. Then you can just type in between.

 

[Delps8]

Thanks for the tip. I've been lazy//should learn how to use the site.
I just checked out the kisorganics.com site. He's a soil guy which is something new to me. The site looks well done. I'll definitely dig into it.

 

[Reave]

Thanks for the tip. I've been lazy//should learn how to use the site.
I just checked out the kisorganics.com site. He's a soil guy which is something new to me. The site looks well done. I'll definitely dig into it.

Oh yeah that’s why I’m listening to it because I got into organics. He has other guys on the podcast though that do hybrid and other aproaches to growing.

 

[Delps8]

"Oh yeah that’s why I’m listening to it because I got into organics."
Got it.

 

[Enjoil]

The seeds in my germinator have popped. They germinated in the dark and on a heating pad (80º). The stems are about 2” tall. I’ve moved them from the closet to my dining room table which has windows on the east and south but there’s no easy way to put direct light on the germinator.

Other threads advise using a CFL light source but I’ve got a few CFL’s from years past but don’t have any CFL light fixtures anymore. The lights in the house are incandescent or LED and the only desk lamp is an LED. My grow tent is set up and it’s an 8’ tent so I can move the light well away from the kids (it’s a Kind XL600).

What’s the next move?

• Let them sit on the table for a few days and use natural light
• Use the LED desk lamp
• Buy a desk lamp and swap in a CFL
• Put them in the tent with the Kind

Thanks in advance.

You are funny! Welcome bro. The best move is...... your first little bullet point! Just let their little roots grow some then you can transplant into a bigger pot and stick them under your grow light when they have some “ real leaves” on em. Baby seedlings like small amounts of light, not 1000w as soon as they are born. If not the window seal use a hot5...

 

[Delps8]

You are funny! Welcome bro. The best move is...... your first little bullet point! Just let their little roots grow some then you can transplant into a bigger pot and stick them under your grow light when they have some “ real leaves” on em. Baby seedlings like small amounts of light, not 1000w as soon as they are born. If not the window seal use a hot5...

Emjoil;
Thank you for the welcome! Y’all are friendly people here.

I think that was one set of seeds ago. How to put it…I had to replace them. I was so careful to not light burn them and to not overwater them that they were very leggy and died. I’ve started another set of seeds and things have turned out better, so far. I’m using RDWC so they’ll stay in the RapidRooter’s till I drop them in net pots.

Update in the next post, below.

 

[Delps8]

The little bastards sprouted! I put 6 Gorilla Glue auto flowers into RapidRooters on 4/3/21 and 2 ½ days later, nature prevailed.
My previous set of seeds were tall and spindly because I germinated them in “no light” mode. Due to what I refer to as “the carnage”, I decided to take a different approach and I bought a SuperSprouter + RapidRooter plugs. After reading through tons of postings and web pages on how to germinate seeds (I must have missed that part of 3rd grade), I settled on following the steps that xlr8 laid out in his posting of some years ago. I did the "soak and squeeze” on the RR’s but the RR’s felt a dry by yesterday so each one RR got 2-3 ml pH 7.0 water. This group of seeds is looking a lot better.
One change I did make was to replace the T5 that came with the SuperSprouter and switch on the LED. The light is a Mars Hydro SP 3000 so it’s dimmable (in contrast to the Kind LED I had) and it took a minute± to dial in 100 µm/s. That’s on the low side for seedlings but it’s very easy to adjust and it’s a good starting point.
And, yes, I will start a grow journal.

 

[Enjoil]

Emjoil;
Thank you for the welcome! Y’all are friendly people here.

I think that was one set of seeds ago. How to put it…I had to replace them. I was so careful to not light burn them and to not overwater them that they were very leggy and died. I’ve started another set of seeds and things have turned out better, so far. I’m using RDWC so they’ll stay in the RapidRooter’s till I drop them in net pots.

Update in the next post, below.

The rapid rooter are for cuttings I believe. I’m not positive and I never used them before. But I know people have had issues trying to start beans in em.
Try jiffy mix! I bet it saves you some hassle and it’s like 4 bucks a bag!

 

[Enjoil]

The little bastards sprouted! I put 6 Gorilla Glue auto flowers into RapidRooters on 4/3/21 and 2 ½ days later, nature prevailed.
My previous set of seeds were tall and spindly because I germinated them in “no light” mode. Due to what I refer to as “the carnage”, I decided to take a different approach and I bought a SuperSprouter + RapidRooter plugs. After reading through tons of postings and web pages on how to germinate seeds (I must have missed that part of 3rd grade), I settled on following the steps that xlr8 laid out in his posting of some years ago. I did the "soak and squeeze” on the RR’s but the RR’s felt a dry by yesterday so each one RR got 2-3 ml pH 7.0 water. This group of seeds is looking a lot better.
One change I did make was to replace the T5 that came with the SuperSprouter and switch on the LED. The light is a Mars Hydro SP 3000 so it’s dimmable (in contrast to the Kind LED I had) and it took a minute± to dial in 100 µm/s. That’s on the low side for seedlings but it’s very easy to adjust and it’s a good starting point.
And, yes, I will start a grow journal.

Swap back out the lights. They will love the t5 for right now...

 

[Delps8]

Swap back out the lights. They will love the t5 for right now...

The T5 is only 18 watt//50µm/second. It’s nice that it’s blue-heavy but seedlings should have 100-200 or 100-300 µm/second (depends on who you read). The SP 3k has a very nice spectrum and is controllable to 1 µm/second accuracy so I dialed it to 100 µm/second.
One of the issues with my last set of seedlings was insufficient light. I didn’t want to take any chances repeating that.

 

[Enjoil]

I thought about that but decided against is for these reasons:

1. The T5 is an 18 watt light that produces 50 µm/second. Every source I’ve read states that 100 µm/second is the minimum that “seedlings likes”. Published ranges seem to be 100-200 or 100-300. With those figures in mind, the T5 will provide no more than 50% and as little at 16% of the recommended PPFD.
2. An advantage of the T5 is that it’s blue heavy, which is considered to be favored in the vegetative stage. When I look at the spectrum map for the SP 3000, it appears that 100 µm/second of their light is will provide more blue light than the T5 and it also provides other parts of the spectrum that the T5 doesn’t.
3. 
   
4. As the seedlings start get bigger, I can adjust the PPFD too 1 µm/second level. I can’t do that with the T5.

Those babies just popped. They for real don’t need much light right now.

 

[Delps8]

Those babies just popped. They for real don’t need much light right now.

Agreed but what’s “much”.

Every source I’ve looked at states that the minimum recommended light intensity is 100 µm/second and, also during the seedling stage, the top end is either 200 or 300. The little T5 can’t supply the minimum level.

The SP 3k has a decent amount of blue in the spectrum and, since I can control the amount of light at such a granular level, I think they’ll get what they need from the Mars.

 

[Stoneface Jack]

I've used those single bulb t5 HO lights for my seedlings and I've never had a problem. The only time they stretch is when the light is too far away, but you can use either. If you like the LED go with it.
You're off to a good start using PAR/ppfd rather than watts. Some people focus on watts per square foot, even though that's an HID measure. The power consumed vs light output of LED lights is always changing, where the HID lights are fairly standardized within their categories.

 

[Delps8]

I've used those single bulb t5 HO lights for my seedlings and I've never had a problem. The only time they stretch is when the light is too far away, but you can use either. If you like the LED go with it.

Lots of ways to get there from here, eh?
I used the rock wool + the Kind with great success in 2017 (my previous and only grow). This time around, disaster. A contributing factor was that I germinated the seeds in complete darkness and, by the time I got to them, then were already 1” tall and skinny as all get out. No mas.

You're off to a good start using PAR/ppfd rather than watts. Some people focus on watts per square foot, even though that's an HID measure. The power consumed vs light output of LED lights is always changing, where the HID lights are fairly standardized within their categories.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.
I’m a data person (I write database software) so the research that folks like Bugbee get involved with clicks with me.
I’ve also seen, I think, a change in grower’s perspective between 2017 and today. I don’t recall PPFD, PAR, etc. being part of the discussion back then. Improvements in technology and changes in cannabis laws are probably factors.
I didn’t realize that LED’s fluctuated in their power consumption. Any idea why?

 

[Stoneface Jack]

Lots of ways to get there from here, eh?
I used the rock wool + the Kind with great success in 2017 (my previous and only grow). This time around, disaster. A contributing factor was that I germinated the seeds in complete darkness and, by the time I got to them, then were already 1” tall and skinny as all get out. No mas.


Thanks for the vote of confidence.
I’m a data person (I write database software) so the research that folks like Bugbee get involved with clicks with me.
I’ve also seen, I think, a change in grower’s perspective between 2017 and today. I don’t recall PPFD, PAR, etc. being part of the discussion back then. Improvements in technology and changes in cannabis laws are probably factors.
I didn’t realize that LED’s fluctuated in their power consumption. Any idea why?

What I meant is that every year the LED lights seem to be putting out more lumens/par per watt consumed than last year's models. Different diodes come out that are more efficient and cooler removing the need for active cooling, the spectrum gets adjusted for example using full spectrum white light rather than blurples, etc.