Soluble vs Insoluble vs Available Meaning

[NewToTHC]

Hello All:

Looking at the back of some leftover Gaia Green Power Bloom Fertilizer and I have a question regarding the terms Soluble/Insoluble and Available.

From what I understand Soluble/Water Soluble means that the nutrient is immediately available to be absorbed by the plant as long as it is dissolved in water. Insoluble means it needs to be broken down, whether that takes weeks, months or years, it is not immediately available to the plant. But what does "available mean".

And in practical use if this was used as a top dress or amendment during the flowering stage there should be sufficient P/K that is available to the plant, but little nitrogen.?

 

[SmokingWings]

Still trying to figure that one out.

I am leaning towards that the Phosphoric Acid is not yet broken down and immediately available but once it is in the soil 8% will eventually become available. Something along the same lines as "insoluble" nutrients eventually becoming soluble and then available.

This link is from the Maximum Yield magazine which is a good source on growing whether it is indoors, outdoors, soil, hydro or a combination. While their web page does not outright answer the question it does mention how the nutrient becomes available.

https://www.maximumyield.com/definition/3411/phosphoric-acid-h3po4

You could try calling or writing or sending an eMail to Gaia and asking them.

If you do find out, let us know.

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

Soluble: will dissolve in liquid specified
Insoluble: will not dissolve in liquid specified

Automotive grease is soluble in gasoline, but insoluble in water

 

[Weaselcracker]

‘Available’ is a term you’ll see attached to Phosphorus.

Short answer- basically it just means what it says - easiest to just take it at face value and assume that’s how much P is there.

Long answer- it’s quite complicated. There are many articles in the subject. Here’s one -

https://nmsp.cals.cornell.edu/publications/factsheets/factsheet12.pdf

 

[bobrown14]

Ahhhh you are looking at why flushing soil does not work.

To answer the question properly and its missing in the posted picture of the partial label is:

We need to know the Materials used to compose the fertilizer tho to answer the question.

Typically its the types of Nitrogen and the sources of that and the chemical makup.

Nitrogen and many other elements combine together and are then either soluble or not soluble and the micro-organisms in the soil medium will break them down into soluble forms the plant will up-take.

NOT a chemist here but I can read and understand most of what's going on with soil and nutrients.

Here's a good read on what is being asked. Labels and MSDS are important when purchasing products. I'm one of those weirdos in the food store that is constantly reading labels and slowing everyone down.

Good read:

https://www.riley.k-state.edu/docs/lawnandgardenandother/nitrogen.pdf

 

[Weaselcracker]

Bob I’m pretty sure the OP is asking because of another thread where he mentions feeding, possibly top-dressing, with some Gaia Green fertilizer, and a while later the plant looks yellow and possibly hungry still. So he’s wondering how long it takes for the nutrients to be available to the plant, and whether that’s really the problem or it’s something else.


@NewToTHC I’d contact GG and ask them about the stuff. Seem to me that a lot of the nitrogen at least is going to be available pretty quickly. Bob knows way more about this dirt stuff.

 

[bobrown14]

I top dress with EWC and kelp meal slurry. 1/4 cup kelp meal ground fine and 1/2 cup ewc to a quart Mason jar. Shake several times. Pour on then water in.

That will be almost immediately available, like over night and will be good for 7-10 days.

Gia green prolly dont want me to say that but yeah it works so does fish emulsion if we dead set on buying stuff.

 

[NewToTHC]

Bob I’m pretty sure the OP is asking because of another thread where he mentions feeding, possibly top-dressing, with some Gaia Green fertilizer, and a while later the plant looks yellow and possibly hungry still. So he’s wondering how long it takes for the nutrients to be available to the plant, and whether that’s really the problem or it’s something else.

Exactly...what I was curious about. I did contact GG on this point, they pretty much stated that top dressing for the most part with the power bloom as above should be fine. My experience wasn't so great. But I have learned from reading online that with organic gardening the bigger the pot the better, like a battery, the bigger the better. As the roots grow out they will encounter more nutrients, but with a small pot once exhausted that's it.

Wanted to try again with some Ocean Forest and then top dress with the power bloom about two weeks before the end of veg, but will use a 10 gallon pot this time instead of a 2-3 gallon which I sued previously.

Was also going to add some to the bottom of the bot and the sides when I mix it up in the pot, hopefully more nutrients will break down over a month in veg and more readily available as the plant matures and the root ball extends downward and to the sides of the pot.

 

[NewToTHC]

I top dress with EWC and kelp meal slurry. 1/4 cup kelp meal ground fine and 1/2 cup ewc to a quart Mason jar. Shake several times. Pour on then water in.

That will be almost immediately available, like over night and will be good for 7-10 days.

Gia green prolly dont want me to say that but yeah it works so does fish emulsion if we dead set on buying stuff.

I did see somewhere a recipe where you mix some kelp meal with water until it's slurry and store in the fridge, good for a month, and then add that as a top dress. Suppose the EWC could be added as well.

 

[bobrown14]

Yes EWC and Kelp meal. Add them to your soil mix. Also need to add some volcanic rock dust - this will provide the CEC needed to sustain the soil for plant growth over time.

If you're organic gardening - look to your compost heap/bin for your top dress. Thats gonna be the key to success over time and save you a little money as well. Home made compost vermi-compost is going to be heads and tails above anything you can purchase in a bag or a bottle.

Other sources of mulch/top dress are leaf mold found in the woods nearby and also found worm castings in the woods.

 

[SmokingWings]

Yes EWC and Kelp meal. Add them to your soil mix. Also need to add some volcanic rock dust - this will provide the CEC needed to sustain the soil for plant growth over time.

If you're organic gardening - look to your compost heap/bin for your top dress. Thats gonna be the key to success over time and save you a little money as well. Home made compost vermi-compost is going to be heads and tails above anything you can purchase in a bag or a bottle.

Other sources of mulch/top dress are leaf mold found in the woods nearby and also found worm castings in the woods.

And for many of us in the northern hemisphere now is a good time to start on that compost pile or to start on making our own leaf mould for next spring.

The leaves are falling. Rake them up into a pile and run over with the lawn mower. Rake back into a pile and move over to the compost pile.

Or, run them over with the lawn mower and do it several times until the leaves are nothing more than little pieces about the size of a fingernail. Pile these up on top of the ground in a shaded area. The rains and snows will keep them wet and even this early in the fall/winter the worms will come up and gnaw on the leaf bits as long as the ground does not freeze under that pile.

I have large plastic trash cans that I drilled holes in on the sides and larger holes on the bottom. The water gets in from the bottom and in the spring the leaf mould is moist and has worms already working it over. Wait a year or a bit longer and the worms will have eaten every piece of leaf and now it is pure worm castings.

 

[SmokingWings]

Oh, forgot to add that homemade worm castings do not have the sand added so what we mine from the buckets or piles in a year or two are 100% castings.

 

[bobrown14]

Its the best ever... thanks for the tip on mulching. We moved to a new place and we have leaves yay. Not the leaves with Anthracnose that we had in Philly either. That shit is bad.

Our new place we have a few trees with black spot mold. I'm going with not worrying about it let the worms take over.

 

[NewToTHC]

To answer the question properly and its missing in the posted picture of the partial label is:

We need to know the Materials used to compose the fertilizer tho to answer the question.

Typically its the types of Nitrogen and the sources of that and the chemical makup.

The top of the photo does show the list of "ingredients"

 

[bobrown14]

Whats the product name? Ill look up the MSDS on it that usually says where those chemical compounds are.

 

[NewToTHC]

Gaia Green Power Bloom

Power Bloom | Gaiagreen

 

[bobrown14]

Total N = 2%
total soluble N = 0.5%
total insoluble N = 1.5%

Here's a good read on this.

The Difference Between Nutrient Solubility and Mobility

 

[TorturedSoul]

And for many of us in the northern hemisphere now is a good time to start on that compost pile or to start on making our own leaf mould for next spring.

The leaves are falling. Rake them up into a pile and run over with the lawn mower. Rake back into a pile and move over to the compost pile.

I was once told to "add equal parts green and brown" to the compost pile. IDK, something about grass clippings and leaves by themselves each having part of what a plant needs, maybe?

Might want to add "binds to soil and sticks around" vs. "doesn't, and gets 'washed away' via successive waterings" to things you're wondering about. Or not. <SHRUGS> Beats me, my comfort zone is a big tub full of madly aerated liquid (DWC hydroponics), lol.

 

[bobrown14]

I like the leaf mold that happens in the woods naturally. After 2 years its the best top dress you can use. Great for mulching your garden then water in. There's your compost tea.

 

[Redcup]

I guess this got answered but heres some more detail. A key point is that all nutrients must be dissolved in water as the inorganic elemental form to be taken up by plant roots.

Soluble N - the amount that dissolves in water and can be immediately taken up by plants

Insoluble N - amount of N that will need to be broken down by microbes to an inorganic form to become water soluble, from sources like feather meal. Think of this as “slow release”.

Available P - the amount of P that is water soluble or citric acid soluble. Plant roots exude citric acid, so this is the amount available (to the plants roots). Different P sources have different solubility
Some P sources like rock phosphate are mostly insoluble and wont be available for years so they dont usually list the amount of insoluble, though sometime total P is listed on a label.

Soluble K - amount of K that dissolves in water. The fertilzer sources for K are all water soluble, except for sources that wont be available except in the long term. So they just list soluble.

So thats the subtle difference the the usage of the terms.

Usually this would not be used as a top dress because the nitrogen gets lost to the atmosphere by the actions of denitrifying bacteria. Thats why fertilizers usually are turned into the soil. Since you dont care about that, it will work fine.