Weird sagging leaves only during sun exposure

[SmokingWings]

I’m not exactly sure how big the plastic pot is……… I’d estimate 10-15 gallon.

Measure across the top and then the height and post it here. Mention which number is the across across measurement and which is the height. I can give an approximate size very soon after I see the numbers.

Literally…….. any direct sun at all makes her wilt and sag.
She recovers as soon as the sun goes behind a cloud (she looks great on a cloudy day) or later in the evening when the sun is behind trees.

Classic signs of not enough water in the soil to get the plant through the day when the sun is shining directly on the plant. The plant is loosing water through the leaves faster than it can get it from the soil. Most likely it is an under-watering issue and not hot soil or root problems.

It is a lot easier than many of us realize for the large containers to dry out more than we think. Then we often use the amount of water that we think it needs so the soil never gets saturated again. Kind of hard to do the "lift the pot test" like we can do with smaller containers. Plus, the soil is loosing some water through evaporation at the top plus through the sides. The hard sided plastic pot will loose water through the soil surface and not the sides.

 

[DirtyDantheman]

Measure across the top and then the height and post it here. Mention which number is the across across measurement and which is the height. I can give an approximate size very soon after I see the numbers.


Classic signs of not enough water in the soil to get the plant through the day when the sun is shining directly on the plant. The plant is loosing water through the leaves faster than it can get it from the soil. Most likely it is an under-watering issue and not hot soil or root problems.

It is a lot easier than many of us realize for the large containers to dry out more than we think. Then we often use the amount of water that we think it needs so the soil never gets saturated again. Kind of hard to do the "lift the pot test" like we can do with smaller containers. Plus, the soil is loosing some water through evaporation at the top plus through the sides. The hard sided plastic pot will loose water through the soil surface and not the sides.

I think I underwatered stressed her.
She’s doing much better now that I watered her more heavily and placed her in a pretty shady spot.
She’s perky now and I added some microbial supplements to try and stabilize her.
I’ll keep her in the partially shaded spot for a week to recover from the stress.
The other plant in the smaller plastic container is doing awesome and is starting the pre flower stretch.
She has never given me any problems at all and is twice as large as the 30 gallon bag girl.
I fear I’m running out of time here in western NY for a good harvest.
This strain (jelly breath) isn’t supposed to mature until late October.
I’ve never moved outdoor plants indoors to finish them off, but it’s looking like it might be a viable option.
Fingers crossed for an extended summer!

 

[SmokingWings]

I think I underwatered stressed her.
She’s doing much better now that I watered her more heavily and placed her in a pretty shady spot.
She’s perky now and I added some microbial supplements to try and stabilize her.
I’ll keep her in the partially shaded spot for a week to recover from the stress.

Good going and glad to see that the plant is recovering. I do not have the patience to move my few outdoor plants around so I tend to leave them in one spot while they recover. Doubt that you will have to wait a week for the plant to recover.

Usually the leaves will return to normal within a couple of hours and as long as the roots keep finding water they will not wilt unless the temperatures start getting into the 90s or higher.

Keep watching out for signs that the plant is starting to wilt or droop. Sometimes when there is not enough water being put into the pot there will be dry spots or even dry layers of soil. The roots will grow above, below and to the sides of these dry areas so it is not that big of an issue but it is soil that the plant cannot make use of.

 

[DirtyDantheman]

Good going and glad to see that the plant is recovering. I do not have the patience to move my few outdoor plants around so I tend to leave them in one spot while they recover. Doubt that you will have to wait a week for the plant to recover.

Usually the leaves will return to normal within a couple of hours and as long as the roots keep finding water they will not wilt unless the temperatures start getting into the 90s or higher.

Keep watching out for signs that the plant is starting to wilt or droop. Sometimes when there is not enough water being put into the pot there will be dry spots or even dry layers of soil. The roots will grow above, below and to the sides of these dry areas so it is not that big of an issue but it is soil that the plant cannot make use of.

Alrighty then…….. I just conducted an experiment.
The plant was just placed half in the sun and half in the shade.
Within 10 minutes, the half place in the sun is sagging and wilting and looking pathetic.
I’m pretty sure that this plant is allergic to the sun.
It’s not even hot today……. Lower 70’s.
I added a bit of Calmag today to see if it will correct any kind of deficiency.
I’m gonna make a sign and hang it on the bag that says “retard”.
Maybe I can shame it into growing properly ?

 

[Scarred4life]

I think I underwatered stressed her.
She’s doing much better now that I watered her more heavily and placed her in a pretty shady spot.
She’s perky now and I added some microbial supplements to try and stabilize her.
I’ll keep her in the partially shaded spot for a week to recover from the stress.
The other plant in the smaller plastic container is doing awesome and is starting the pre flower stretch.
She has never given me any problems at all and is twice as large as the 30 gallon bag girl.
I fear I’m running out of time here in western NY for a good harvest.
This strain (jelly breath) isn’t supposed to mature until late October.
I’ve never moved outdoor plants indoors to finish them off, but it’s looking like it might be a viable option.
Fingers crossed for an extended summer!

I'd be careful bringing them inside. You'll be dealing with pests forever. Once she's watered properly and she's perky, go ahead and get her back out in the sun. Make sure she stays moist. With those huge bags, it can help to put it in a saucer. Anything that you can let it sit in a little bit of water and get a good soak. 30 gallons of soil is gonna soak up like 10 gallons of water if it's dry. Don't leave her in a puddle, but let her soak up as much as she wants. She'll be heavy like a rock. Don't hurt yourself, lol. After that, keep up on your checks and top watering, remember how heavy she was and you'll know when her bottom starts to get dried out again. You must have been aiming for a tree going with a 30 gal. Good luck!

 

[DirtyDantheman]

If anyone is interested in what was the cause of this strange problem………. It was a potassium deficiency.
I’ve never came across this problem before, but this is my first totally organic grow.
Apparently, the plant can’t regulate its water uptake without sufficient potassium.
That’s why it would wilt in the sun no matter what I did, and perk back up in the shade or a cloudy day.
The problem didn’t become obvious until the edges of the leaves started to yellow and burn.
A couple of rounds of foliar feeding with molasses straightened her right back up.
I lost a few weeks of valuable growth but hopefully she’ll start fattening up the flowers now.
Lesson learned…………

 

[grayeyes]

I tend to agree with Azimuth. I would bet it is water especially with the higher temps. The too much sunlight theory sounds like the kind of thing that gets volunteered when someone doesn't know what to say. It will NEVER be too much sun.

 

[DirtyDantheman]

I tend to agree with Azimuth. I would bet it is water especially with the higher temps. The too much sunlight theory sounds like the kind of thing that gets volunteered when someone doesn't know what to say. It will NEVER be too much sun.

I overwatered and underwatered and still the girl exhibited the same limp appearance.
From what I researched I found that if there is a lack of potassium, the plant can’t pull the water from the soil and transport it to the leaves so the plant can’t regulate its temperature.
So you are correct that it wasn’t too much sun………
I’ve never seen a symptom like this that wasn’t water related.
And it totally explains why neither overwatering or underwatering changed anything for the better at all.
She’s all good now though!

 

[SmokingWings]

The too much sunlight theory sounds like the kind of thing that gets volunteered when someone doesn't know what to say. It will NEVER be too much sun.

If the plant cannot get enough water to match the transpiration rate it will start to wilt. Soil that is starting to dry or a weak or damaged root system can slow down water uptake.

Bright sun is enough to increase the air temperatures and cause the plant to loose water faster than it can take in enough to replace what it has lost.

 

[Absorber]

Is your plant in a pot ? It could be your pot and root mass getting to hot and your plant suffering from it .

 

[DirtyDantheman]

Is your plant in a pot ? It could be your pot and root mass getting to hot and your plant suffering from it .

Yes……. It’s in a 30 gal fabric pot.
I tried “shielding” the pot with white tin to reflect the sun.
It still made no difference………
I was researching the wilting of the plant and it always pointed to a watering problem.
But I knew it wasn’t because I tried EVERYTHING.
Nothing helped at all.
I came across a website that said a severe lack of potassium can cause the plant to wilt in the sun.
So I foliar fed the girl with molasses and the next day she was happy again.
Weird…… but it worked like a charm

 

[SmokingWings]

Good job on the research and finding a way to solve the problem.

I was researching the wilting of the plant and it always pointed to a watering problem.
But I knew it wasn’t because I tried EVERYTHING.
Nothing helped at all.
I came across a website that said a severe lack of potassium can cause the plant to wilt in the sun.
So I foliar fed the girl with molasses and the next day she was happy again.
Weird…… but it worked like a charm

It was a "water problem" , just not the usual one where there is not enough water in the soil. In this case it sounds like the plants roots and vascular system were needing a bit more help.

I have been using and recommending Potassium for overall plant health. Your plants look and seem healthy except for the wilting issue so it is hard to think that a simple nutrient deficiency was causing this type of problem.

I looked up some of the ways the Potassium helps with plant roots and with water intake and came across this bit of info:
From the University of Minnesota Co-operative Extension program:
Potassium will increase root growth and improves drought resistance. It helps to maintains turgor; reduces water loss and wilting.

Also found these notations from the Minnesota Extension program:
*Potassium is associated with the movement of water, nutrients and carbohydrates in plant tissue.
*Potassium also helps regulate the opening and closing of the stomata, which regulates the exchange of water vapor, oxygen and carbon dioxide. If K is deficient or not supplied in adequate amounts, it stunts plant growth and reduces yield.

and Potassium:
* Increases root growth and improves drought resistance.
* Maintains turgor; reduces water loss and wilting.
* Aids in photosynthesis and food formation.
* Reduces respiration, preventing energy losses.
* Enhances translocation of sugars and starch.
* Builds cellulose and reduces lodging.
* Helps retard crop diseases.

 

[DirtyDantheman]

Good job on the research and finding a way to solve the problem.


It was a "water problem" , just not the usual one where there is not enough water in the soil. In this case it sounds like the plants roots and vascular system were needing a bit more help.

I have been using and recommending Potassium for overall plant health. Your plants look and seem healthy except for the wilting issue so it is hard to think that a simple nutrient deficiency was causing this type of problem.

I looked up some of the ways the Potassium helps with plant roots and with water intake and came across this bit of info:
From the University of Minnesota Co-operative Extension program:
Potassium will increase root growth and improves drought resistance. It helps to maintains turgor; reduces water loss and wilting.

Also found these notations from the Minnesota Extension program:
*Potassium is associated with the movement of water, nutrients and carbohydrates in plant tissue.
*Potassium also helps regulate the opening and closing of the stomata, which regulates the exchange of water vapor, oxygen and carbon dioxide. If K is deficient or not supplied in adequate amounts, it stunts plant growth and reduces yield.

and Potassium:
* Increases root growth and improves drought resistance.
* Maintains turgor; reduces water loss and wilting.
* Aids in photosynthesis and food formation.
* Reduces respiration, preventing energy losses.
* Enhances translocation of sugars and starch.
* Builds cellulose and reduces lodging.
* Helps retard crop diseases.

The original picture that I posted was over a month ago.
The potassium deficiency started showing in other ways since then.
Yellowing of leaf margins that slowly turned to burning.
Starting at the older leaves and working its way up.
The girl in the smaller pot has never shown any of these problems.
Just the girl in the 30 gallon fabric pot.
I think all the rain we was getting must have washed a lot of the nutes away in the fabric pot but it wasn’t a problem for the plastic pot.