What is up now? Fan leaves on Auto Blue Dream

[Keffka]

Vinegar is an acid, a fairly strong acid at that. I use it to water my plants, and I also use it to kill plants down to and including the roots.

When using it in water I feed the plants I’m using it to lower my alkaline water so I use approximately one tsp per gallon of water. This has no negative affect on my plants, it’s far too diluted to do anything. When I use it to kill plants though I mix it at least a quart to a gallon usually more like half and half. Vinegar is also very good for cleaning surfaces and your home without the need for bleach or harsh chemicals, makes for a good marinade base, it’s super versatile.. I love vinegar

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[OGpapa]

@Keffka nice info. I have a love hate relationship. But I have used it to kill mean poison ivy, my property is covered. Never thought about dosing my high alkalinity water. What is your base pH, before and after? Jus curious

 

[Keffka]

@Keffka nice info. I have a love hate relationship. But I have used it to kill mean poison ivy, my property is covered. Never thought about dosing my high alkalinity water. What is your base pH, before and after? Jus curious

I learned about vinegar from my BIL actually.. he almost killed himself with ammonia and bleach lol.. it’s not funny, but it is.. Something about gassing yourself in such an innocent manner gets me.

My water is filtered tap water that comes out to 7.8 after the filter.. 7.5 out of the tap. When I use vinegar (I’ve switched to citric acid lately, much more effective in smaller doses) at about a tsp to a gallon I go from 7.8 to 7ish. I’ve found vinegar to behave unpredictably for lowering ph though, I suspect it has more to do with me than the vinegar as I’ve always struggled with pinpoint accuracy in liquid measurements. However it works great in a pinch especially if you have really alkaline water in the 8+ range

 

[OGpapa]

I learned about vinegar from my BIL actually.. he almost killed himself with ammonia and bleach lol.. it’s not funny, but it is.. Something about gassing yourself in such an innocent manner gets me.

My water is filtered tap water that comes out to 7.8 after the filter.. 7.5 out of the tap. When I use vinegar (I’ve switched to citric acid lately, much more effective in smaller doses) at about a tsp to a gallon I go from 7.8 to 7ish. I’ve found vinegar to behave unpredictably for lowering ph though, I suspect it has more to do with me than the vinegar as I’ve always struggled with pinpoint accuracy in liquid measurements. However it works great in a pinch especially if you have really alkaline water in the 8+ range

Interesting.

My oldest son peed in a toilet with bleach, when he was like 4 almost died. Since then we don't use bleach. I get it. Funny not funny. I have high 8.5 to 8.8 pH is always been fine taste great plants love it until they don't. I like your idea of citric acid, better than vinegar. Gonna have to do some trials on my next run.

 

[Keffka]

Interesting.

My oldest son peed in a toilet with bleach, when he was like 4 almost died. Since then we don't use bleach. I get it. Funny not funny. I have high 8.5 to 8.8 pH is always been fine taste great plants love it until they don't. I like your idea of citric acid, better than vinegar. Gonna have to do some trials on my next run.

I’ve looked all over for organic Ph down.. Phosphoric acid isn’t organic, and from what I’ve read, it kills beneficial bacteria.. the overwhelming majority of organic ph down I have come across is just citric acid so I figured cut out the middle man..
It is unstable so if left to evaporate the ph would eventually rise back up but I use soil so the buffering in the soil prevents that rise, and I prepare my water 24 hours prior at most.

 

[SmokingWings]

as I’ve always struggled with pinpoint accuracy in liquid measurements.

If you are talking in the area of using approx one teaspoon measurements have you considered using a pipette, or are you already using one.

Wanted to mention for those new to using metric as opposed to US Imperial measurements a teaspoon is 4.9 ml which for most measuring can be considered 5 ml. Luckily the measuring I do for soil growing 5ml per teaspoon is dang close.

 

[Phytoplankton]

Phosphoric acid isn’t organic, and from what I’ve read, it kills beneficial bacteria..

True, it's not organic, but it will not kill soil organisms unless you grossly overdose your plants with it (get the PH down around 3-4). It's been used to reduce PH for watering plants for decades.

 

[Keffka]

True, it's not organic, but it will not kill soil organisms unless you grossly overdose your plants with it (get the PH down around 3-4). It's been used to reduce PH for watering plants for decades.

To be fair, humans do lots of things incorrectly for vast amounts of time simply because that’s how they’ve always been done. “That’s how it’s always been done” has been an excuse I’ve heard applied quite often to a variety of things to reason why it’s okay to keep being wrong.

Phosphoric acid has antimocrobial, cytotoxic, and bactericidal characteristics. It has been shown to be an even more effective bactericide agent than Citric acid by almost double. I have read claims that it doesn’t impact soil microbes on the web but I’ve read actual peer reviewed studies that say otherwise.

Now.. I’ve said all that to say this lol.. It appears that, just like with the vinegar, the dilution would be so great, there wouldn’t really be a noticeable effect on the health of your soil. As you said, it would require a concentration that is just out of the realm of logic for our usage. Personally, I don’t feel comfortable using phosphoric acid due to its inorganic nature which completely defeats the purpose of running organic just to be done in by ph adjustment, but it appears it won’t have a detrimental affect on soil health.

 

[SmokingWings]

Personally, I don’t feel comfortable using phosphoric acid due to its inorganic nature which completely defeats the purpose of running organic just to be done in by ph adjustment, but it appears it won’t have a detrimental affect on soil health.

I looked up the "organic phosphoric acid" and does "phosphoric acid occur naturally" and came across references that can be found in some fruits. But to get something like that which is naturally occurring probably costs a fortune when compared to the man-made stuff with the inorganic acid.