Why Medical Marijuana Makes Sense For Chronic Pain, A Doctor's View

[420 Warrior]

In defense of an Illinois doctor - "never' is indefensible - "Not now because I don't want to wind up in jail" is a real concern.

So far, two Illinois doctors are facing criminal charges, one essentially for recommending to a new patient as opposed to being a previously established primary care physician. There were multiple office visits, so you know that patient paid through the nose, but according to the prosecutor - it wasn't enough.

In my opinion, it's a real risk to make a recommendation in the jurisdiction of an Illinois prosecutor who wants to make a name for themselves - which is basically all prosecuting attorneys.

Again, they should just not say or post anything about it if they are kept under constraint due to legality issues. They should just tell their patients the truth that they would recommend Cannabis if they could but the law won't allow it at this time but maybe one day they will be allowed to. It's simply the truth and I could respect that more than them posting that they will "not now or ever be prescribing medical Marijuana"...That just screams big pharma dictating they're decisions when prescribing medications!

 

[Smokeater]

Again, they should just not say or post anything about it if they are kept under constraint due to legality issues. They should just tell their patients the truth that they would recommend Cannabis if they could but the law won't allow it at this time but maybe one day they will be allowed to. It's simply the truth and I could respect that more than them posting that they will "not now or ever be prescribing medical Marijuana"...That just screams big pharma dictating they're decisions when prescribing medications!

Maybe I didn't understand you, But are your saying that doc's have the choice to deny access to MMJ for legal reasons even though here in Illinois they have legalized MMJ?. I guess I just want off of opiates (I have been taking 3 class 2 opiates daily for 15 years as well as a barbiturate called Fioricet for my virtually daily migraines) due to how they are damaging my body and with no pain relief I have no quality of life. Maybe I just misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry if I did. I just don't understand how all the people somewhere in Illinois that have had prescriptions written in order to get the MMJ card required here that allow us to legally use and purchase from the dispensaries that they finally opened up after three years of a 4 year trial program on MMJ and for the life of me, I can't find one (at all) in an area I can travel too to get a script due to my injury, (I can't travel long distances), not counting it is supposed to be my own doc or a doc that knows my medical history. If I misunderstood you 420 Warrior, I'm apologize.

 

[420 Warrior]

Maybe I didn't understand you, But are your saying that doc's have the choice to deny access to MMJ for legal reasons even though here in Illinois they have legalized MMJ?. I guess I just want off of opiates (I have been taking 3 class 2 opiates daily for 15 years as well as a barbiturate called Fioricet for my virtually daily migraines) due to how they are damaging my body and with no pain relief I have no quality of life. Maybe I just misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry if I did. I just don't understand how all the people somewhere in Illinois that have had prescriptions written in order to get the MMJ card required here that allow us to legally use and purchase from the dispensaries that they finally opened up after three years of a 4 year trial program on MMJ and for the life of me, I can't find one (at all) in an area I can travel too to get a script due to my injury, (I can't travel long distances), not counting it is supposed to be my own doc or a doc that knows my medical history. If I misunderstood you 420 Warrior, I'm apologize.

No need to apologize brother, it may have been me that misunderstood as I'm not entirely sure how the laws read in your state. Being that I'm down here in GA all I have to really go by is what I read and the feedback I get from you guys. I'm just another member here like anyone else so I don't have all the answers but I do try my best to stay on top of things and try my best to be insightful, helpful and compassionate as well as passionate about the cause but I'll never be the guy that boast's about knowing everything because I certainly don't, no one does.

All I know is that from what you've said, your current doctor seems to be a schmuck that want's to keep you dependent on those pain killers and you really need Cannabis to help get you off those and back to some kind of normalcy in your life.

I think what you may want to do brother is go to the "Medical Marijuana" forums on this site and start a new thread and ask around for some advice from people who are there in your state as for what you should do. I'm quite certain that with a little research and asking around, you will most likely bump into someone from your state with the same or similar issues you have and you can get some really good advice to help you my friend.

There's something else you could consider doing as well, You can do what you want but I think if I were you I'd also be considering doing a stealth grow if you have a good safe hidden location to do so? There are many ways to hide a grow brother, We have tons of sponsors who sell everything you need for stealth growing as well as tons of kick ass growers who can walk you through every process of a grow and will have you cultivating your own medicine in no time. I did this myself a few years ago and it was a beautiful thing as just growing it by it's self was totally therapeutic and the end results were absolutely phenomenal...mind you I'm not trying to get you in trouble, I'm just giving you food for thought here my friend.

I just want you to find happiness in your life brother, as do I want that for everyone here and just being here in the first place is a step in the right direction for finding it. I'm sure with a little diligence and research you'll find the answers your looking for, no doubt.

 

[Heather De Ath]

With all possible respect, RudyRuderalis, the division you express between recreaton and medical reminds me of the division between male homosexuals and female homosexuals in the 1970s.

You express yourself similar to the lesbians who tried to distance themselves from the male gays.

To non-supporters, the distinction doesn't matter.

But the lesbians somehow thought they could advance their cause by distancing themselves from the men. Those gay men who did publically distasteful things like frequent BDSM clubsm gay bath houses, and wear handkerchiefs of different colors and keys on different sides of their waist.

Trying to seperate themselves led to wierd moments where womens groups denied dykes and claimed all lesbians were lipstick lesbians. They remind me of recent moments like 'smoking without inhaling' and taking marijuana in forms that don't 'get you high.'

The lesbians of the 70s DID NOT gain social acceptance by going their own way, they only achieved legal progress on the coat tails of gay men. It was in unification that they found strength.

I am AGAINST medical marijuana patients trying to distance themselves from recreational users. While there is an obvious urgency of need between a cancer patient and a teenage toker, in all cases they are trying to improve their lives by partaking of the multiple positive benefits of marijuana. I personally believe the mental and physical health benefits to the teenager toker are vitally important to the health and progress of our nation in the next generation.

You can fool yourself, and others into thinking you are "different" than other marijuana users, but all you are doing is dividing us up into categories that allow the authoritarians to 'divide and conquer.'

We are all marijuana users on the same spectrum. I embrace the use of marijuana by everyone leading us to a happier, healthier future !

The difference between recreational and medical is a moral one. So your moral foundation will probably determine how you view marijuana usage.

 

[Heather De Ath]

I have a sister who was recently diagnosed with MS, I also have an older sister who has had MS for close to 30 years now. The difference between the 2 sisters? The one who got MS 30 years ago has never once smoked or consumed pot, while my other sister has been an avid recreational smoker since her early teens. When she asked the Dr. why it struck her so late in life, the DR. told her that he believed that her smoking pot all those years had held it at bay and it was not till she got older and her body not as strong that it could no longer hold it at bay. Just an FYI recreational use has its place too, I believe in the medical field they call it "preventative medicine"

That is an interesting point but what if sniffing gas is also "preventative medicine"? Should we defy all conventional wisdom about sniffing gas and "preventatively" sniff it for decades...assuming it will help keep MS at bay?
SHould my friend's dad NOT wear his seatbelt because the one time he did not wear it was the time he crashed into a semi-trailer and ducked low enough to avoid his head getting took off?

 

[Heather De Ath]

snip

Cannabis is not a drug,.

Yes it is.

snip

 

[Heather De Ath]

snip ----- he has told me he believes in and never will prescribe it other than the money he gets from appointments. It all comes down to the mighty dollar and ignorant beliefs.

The problem lies in writing prescriptions, at least, this is how it was related to me. Doctors can lose their license to write prescriptions altogether if they prescribe medical marijuana.

 

[Heather De Ath]

snip
There really is no difference between "recreational" and "medical" Cannabis use.

snip

Yes there is. And it's a big moral one.

 

[Going Down]

That is an interesting point but what if sniffing gas is also "preventative medicine"? Should we defy all conventional wisdom about sniffing gas and "preventatively" sniff it for decades...assuming it will help keep MS at bay?
SHould my friend's dad NOT wear his seatbelt because the one time he did not wear it was the time he crashed into a semi-trailer and ducked low enough to avoid his head getting took off?

Sniffing Gas?! Really? Looks like you got your feelings hurt. Your starting to get defensive my brother. Let me ask you question. Would you agree that recreational users do receive benefits from smoking cannabis? Last time I checked, Recreational and Medicinal users are smoking the same plant. Medical Marijuana is a term that was used just to split the cannabis community so it could be legalized for the few.

 

[420 Warrior]

It's ok if we all have differences of opinion my friend's, that's one freedom our brave men and women have been fighting for since this country was founded. The thing we need to avoid though, is squabbling over petty things and picking peoples opinions apart and belittling them if they just don't have the same exact opinion as someone else.

There is nothing wrong with healthy debate as that just leads to new perspectives and higher education, but we need to remember that we're all on the same side here and the real enemy is OUT THERE just sitting back looking for any and all weaknesses and if we are so caught up and focused on the little differences of opinions we have among ourselves, believe me, our opposition will use that to their advantage and find any little piece of dirt they can find to shut down everything we have worked so hard to achieve.

We need to find common ground with one another and build off of that to lay the foundation and framework to see where we need to go from here. What direction do we need to be focusing on right now? Personally, I think we should focus on finding weakness in our oppositions framework and pick them apart and look for more cracks in their infrastructure, but that's just me.

Medical or recreational Cannabis users? Does it really matter? In the end, we're all wanting the same thing here, to have the right to use a plant that has never hurt a soul in history, in any way we as adults choose to use it for ourselves...Civil liberty, the right to choose, that's it! We have got to quit trying to divide ourselves up and start working together, that's the only way my friends...THE ONLY WAY!!!

 

[Radogast]

The difference between recreational and medical is a moral one. So your moral foundation will probably determine how you view marijuana usage.

Interesting distinction. What is is about 'recreational' that would be immoral?

 

[Radogast]

That is an interesting point but what if sniffing gas is also "preventative medicine"? Should we defy all conventional wisdom about sniffing gas and "preventatively" sniff it for decades...assuming it will help keep MS at bay?
SHould my friend's dad NOT wear his seatbelt because the one time he did not wear it was the time he crashed into a semi-trailer and ducked low enough to avoid his head getting took off?

You seem to think that Marijuana causes harm (based on equating it with sniffing a harmful substance) .... what makes you believe that?

The seatbelt analogy is interesting.... with all the benefits of cannabis, I see NOT taking cannabis is closer to NOTwearing a seatbelt.

I personally don't use cannabis very often, and did not use for decades. I probaby should have since it seems to regulate high blood pressure and I have recently been diagnosed with hypertension... It seems I didn't wear my seatbelt.

 

[Heather De Ath]

Sniffing Gas?! Really? Looks like you got your feelings hurt. Your starting to get defensive my brother. Let me ask you question. Would you agree that recreational users do receive benefits from smoking cannabis? Last time I checked, Recreational and Medicinal users are smoking the same plant. Medical Marijuana is a term that was used just to split the cannabis community so it could be legalized for the few.

They are totally morally different. I know what I am talking about. You seem to be trying to convince me otherwise... It won't work. I have the firm foundation of the Holy Ghost living in me. That is why I am able to consistently and accurately diagnose and offer solutions for moral dilemas. Accepting or rejecting this Biblically-based moral wisdom is up to the individual.
The solution for recreational users? Repentance and faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins.

But this article is about why medical marijuana makes sense... which it does. I might as well start another thread called "The Difference Between Medical And Recreational Marijuana". But not for a while until I can think on it a little.

 

[cleanslate]

Cannabis is not a drug,

Yes it is.

There is no really scientifically precise and consistent definition of what a drug is vs. a herbal/dietary supplement within the Federal government.

This is the FDA definition of a drug:

A substance recognized by an official pharmacopoeia or formulary.
A substance intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease.
A substance (other than food) intended to affect the structure or any function of the body.
A substance intended for use as a component of a medicine but not a device or a
component, part or accessory of a device.
Biological products are included within this definition and are generally covered by
the same laws and regulations, but differences exist regarding their manufacturing
processes (chemical process versus biological process.
Drugs@FDA Glossary of Terms

Cannabis last appeared in the United States Pharmacopeia in 1942. So it doesn't meet that first criteria of the FDA definition of a drug. It does in fact meet the second definition as a substance intended for curing and treatment of disease, although the federal government insist that it doesn't -- being more like snake oil medicine at best and highly addictive and detrimental to health at worst.

If cannabis is an awkward fit into the drug "shoe" then what is it? Food does not fall within the FDA definition of a drug. Cannabis is first and foremost an important and highly nutritious food for humans going back at least 10,000 years. Cannabis was one of the first cultivated food crops--perhaps the first according to Carl Sagan. We then discovered that is was an excellent fiber and of course a very powerful medicine for all sorts of maladies and conditions. At some point during the long, evolving, relationship with the plant someone discovered that heated or burned cannabis imparted wonderfully enlivening and conscious altering effects. So for thousands of years humans considered cannabis to be a food, fiber and medicine; not a drug, but a herbal medicine.

Entheobotanist Christian Ratsch writes "No other plant has been with humans as long as hemp. It is most certainly one of humanity's oldest cultural objects. Wherever it was known, it was considered a functional, healing, inebriating, and aphrodisiac plant.Through the centuries, myths have arisen about this mysterious plant and its divine powers. Entire generations have revered it as sacred.... The power of hemp has been praised in hymns and prayers."(Ratsch 1997).

 

[cleanslate]

They are totally morally different. I know what I am talking about. You seem to be trying to convince me otherwise... It won't work. I have the firm foundation of the Holy Ghost living in me. That is why I am able to consistently and accurately diagnose and offer solutions for moral dilemas. Accepting or rejecting this Biblically-based moral wisdom is up to the individual.
The solution for recreational users? Repentance and faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins.

But this article is about why medical marijuana makes sense... which it does. I might as well start another thread called "The Difference Between Medical And Recreational Marijuana". But not for a while until I can think on it a little.

Morality is often used to oppress and exclude. Empathy, compassion and healing trump morality. Jesus the liberator and healer was about freeing those oppressed by holier than thou religious leaders who used a morality bludgeon against those who needed acceptance and healing. Jesus was condemned by the morally superior religious elite and handed over to his Roman executioners by them.

 

[OlderGrower]

The difference between recreational and medical is a moral one. So your moral foundation will probably determine how you view marijuana usage.

I agree that the difference between recreational and medical is a more one. I just happen to believe that to be moral, I should not throw someone in jail, ruin their life and fill our court and prison system with people who only want to smoke a plant that does no harm to them or others.

That is an interesting point but what if sniffing gas is also "preventative medicine"? Should we defy all conventional wisdom about sniffing gas and "preventatively" sniff it for decades...assuming it will help keep MS at bay?
SHould my friend's dad NOT wear his seatbelt because the one time he did not wear it was the time he crashed into a semi-trailer and ducked low enough to avoid his head getting took off?

Well my friend, 1st off, if you only live your life by conventional wisdom, you need to not use medical marijuana, do you not listen to your government? Perhaps you need to watch reefer madness again , because e that is the conventional wisdom you would be referring to. Now if sniffing gas had medical properties, did not do any physical or mental damage to you or others like smoking marijuana, then I would say, sniff away my friend, sniff away. As for your friends dad and the seatbelt, I actually believe that to wear a seatbelt or not to wear a seatbelt should be a personal choice. Personally I would wear one even if there was not a law forcing me to wear one but that is my choice. Perhaps we should pass a law that says everyone has to wear a football helmet every day all day long to prevent head injuries. I am sure you would be all for that if it was the law. I believe each person needs to except personal responsibility for their own actions, but if you feel that we should govern responsibility you are entitled to your opinion, but unfortunately I will never be convinced that is the best option.

 

[DankWolf907]

National Pain Report: What evidence then is going to be sufficient enough for them to say, ok we know that maybe this not a gateway drug or this is not a slippery slope. Is it anecdotal evidence or is it research that is needed?

Dr. Witman: No, I think that all we’re looking for is the usage of this drug for medical indications

Wowwwwww!
Pretty sure we reached this point, several years/decade/s ago.. Yet...here we are, still waiting.

This Dr isnt the sharpest of the bunch is he? Why was he(or she) the chosen doc to be questioned?!

And i agree on seatbelts being a choice(should be) my choice if i want to live or die. Ive been in a rollover accident, and Fortunately did NOT have a seatbelt on. If i did, i would have been held in place and the roof would have crushed my damned skull.

 

[OlderGrower]

I hate to say it but this thread has gotten a little side tracked. It is originally about MJ being used for chronic pain and if it was a sensible use of MJ.

I do not think anyone one here is refute that it is not only a sensible but also a viable choice for the treatment of chronic pain. Where I believe we got side tracked was in the definition of chronic. While many only consider certain types of pain to be chronic, such as arthritis or back injuries sometimes we overlook the less painful types of chronic pain. Webster dictionary defines chronic as "Persisting for a long time or recurring." Webster also defines pain as "Physical suffering or discomfort caused by illness or injury" Many people who use for recreational, do so for the same reason many people that come home from work and have a stiff drink at the end of a long hard day at work. It relieves stress, it allows them to relax, and it also takes their minds off their problems. Now everyones job or day is different then the next guys, but I for one have a very physical job, I am an electrician by trade and I climb ladders and work with my hands all day. When I get home, I can not smoke a bowl to relieve myself from the stress of the day or even the aches and pains I experience because of random drug testing, but it is perfectly except-able for me to have a stiff drink of alcohol to alleviate the stress and pains of the day. I live in a state where it is legal both medical and recreational but due to the misconception that recreational is only to get high, drug testing for MJ continues as the norm. It would not matter if I had a medical card or not, either way I can not medicate without potentially loosing my job.
I do not like alcohol and being from a family with a high rate of alcoholism I do not care to use it as a form of medication. I also do not care to use pharmaceuticals since I believe they do more harm then they do good.
Depression and stress are medical illnesses as are many others. Sure there will always be people who only smoke it to get high, but they are actually getting the benefit of the drug either way. There are people who go to the doctor and lie about pain so they can get pharmaceutical pain killers, but that does not mean we should care about the ones who are doing it for the right reason, though for me, that would be a poor choice, but to each their own.

In conclusion I think it is safe to say that the question of is MJ a viable and sensible option for chronic pain, the answer would be yes. The only question I see in debate would be what defines an illness or injury.
Which ever side of the debate you are on, I only wish the best for you all.

 

[420 Warrior]

I hate to say it but this thread has gotten a little side tracked. It is originally about MJ being used for chronic pain and if it was a sensible use of MJ.

I do not think anyone one here is refute that it is not only a sensible but also a viable choice for the treatment of chronic pain. Where I believe we got side tracked was in the definition of chronic. While many only consider certain types of pain to be chronic, such as arthritis or back injuries sometimes we overlook the less painful types of chronic pain. Webster dictionary defines chronic as "Persisting for a long time or recurring." Webster also defines pain as "Physical suffering or discomfort caused by illness or injury" Many people who use for recreational, do so for the same reason many people that come home from work and have a stiff drink at the end of a long hard day at work. It relieves stress, it allows them to relax, and it also takes their minds off their problems. Now everyones job or day is different then the next guys, but I for one have a very physical job, I am an electrician by trade and I climb ladders and work with my hands all day. When I get home, I can not smoke a bowl to relieve myself from the stress of the day or even the aches and pains I experience because of random drug testing, but it is perfectly except-able for me to have a stiff drink of alcohol to alleviate the stress and pains of the day. I live in a state where it is legal both medical and recreational but due to the misconception that recreational is only to get high, drug testing for MJ continues as the norm. It would not matter if I had a medical card or not, either way I can not medicate without potentially loosing my job.
I do not like alcohol and being from a family with a high rate of alcoholism I do not care to use it as a form of medication. I also do not care to use pharmaceuticals since I believe they do more harm then they do good.
Depression and stress are medical illnesses as are many others. Sure there will always be people who only smoke it to get high, but they are actually getting the benefit of the drug either way. There are people who go to the doctor and lie about pain so they can get pharmaceutical pain killers, but that does not mean we should care about the ones who are doing it for the right reason, though for me, that would be a poor choice, but to each their own.

In conclusion I think it is safe to say that the question of is MJ a viable and sensible option for chronic pain, the answer would be yes. The only question I see in debate would be what defines an illness or injury.
Which ever side of the debate you are on, I only wish the best for you all.

Well said OG. almost the same thing I was saying a few posts ago and I also feel ya about the physically demanding job too as I have been a semi trailer mechanic since 87 (working off of ladders and busting knuckles) as well as being a truck driver since 96, both of which are physical and stressful jobs and both require piss tests. Sounds like we have allot in common brother. Have you tried going to work doing something in the Cannabis industry out there in Oregon? Just curious?

 

[OlderGrower]

Well said OG. almost the same thing I was saying a few posts ago and I also feel ya about the physically demanding job too as I have been a semi trailer mechanic since 87 (working off of ladders and busting knuckles) as well as being a truck driver since 96, both of which are physical and stressful jobs and both require piss tests. Sounds like we have allot in common brother. Have you tried going to work doing something in the Cannabis industry out there in Oregon? Just curious?

I would love to work in the industry but to be honest I have no idea where to start looking. At this stage of my life I would even take a major cut in income if I could find something. I am vested in my retirement so I could afford to find something else to do I just really have no idea where to start looking.

If you have a suggestion on where to start looking I am all ears