Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero-DWC

[Sky Rocket]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

1st of all what is your timer set to water yout clones. My clone box was somewhat similar. I have my Eco plus 396 pump set to spray my cuttings on 1 minute off 5 minutes. Your clones will not root with the temp being that hot. Next time don't put ice cubes in your bin instead put frozen water bottles but make sure you peel of the paper of the water bottles as over time it will peel of the bottle and you don't want debris in your bin as it may get in your pump.

2nd of all why do you have water on your clones? Don't invest nothing to make your clones root. You dont need no rhizo additives. Just plain old tap cool tap water. I've clone. Like this before and always have had close to 100 % success. But I have used cloned solution before.

Also click on my journal below and go to the second page and check out my rooted clones.

Good luck

 

[Aardvark]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

Hey again, Sky Rocket. The smallest cycle pump I have on hand will do 15 minute increments, but I don't have it hooked up to the cloner - which is on 24x7. After changing the setup and reservoir today with fresh tapwater & a teaspoon of bleach, and with the reservoir filled to the bottom of the mini-sprinkler heads (as far as I dare have it in this sized bucket), the temperature is steady 8 hours later at 80.5 degrees (F). I am thinking that with a controlled ambient temperature of 75 degrees (F), that the reservoir temperature should stabilize at around 78 degrees (F), which is what my three main grow boxes with the remote filter/pump runs at.

Fortunately, I did not cut off all of the lower branches from the plants yet and I have plenty of clone candidates. The downside of course is the time delay - 2 weeks to make a decently-root clone, as well as having to relocate the setup to a deeper tote box, which I already have and can simply switch the lid - after I peel the guts out of the old one, which is hot-glued in. I guess I could just make another PVC pipe manifold to make it go more quickly.

Another downside is that the longer I keep those lower branches growing as potential cuttings, the rest of the plant is growing slower than it could be; I really want to trim the lower branches off to transfer growing energy to the tops of the plants.

What temperature do you keep your Aeroclone box - and what clone solution do you use? Right now I have the Rootone powder as well as a tiny tin of Rootech gel, but is there something you add to the water? I heard that using chloride-based chlorine treatments used for "shocking" swimming pools was very good for Aeroclone boxes.

The cuttings look like they are shrinking a bit; the leaves are pulled in and pointing down.

Did I make my cuttings too big? I used several different heights, the smaller ones came from a small plant and the larger ones from that large selection of big branches.

A funny aspect of this is that I have one small Indica-dominant plant whose hairs are mostly red already; the rest of the crop isn't even close to that. This is the last time I combine so many strains together in the same grow!

Thanks for keeping me on my toes!

 

[Sky Rocket]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

Getting ready for work so I'll respond later on on my lunch break

 

[Sky Rocket]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

. . . Yeah that's why I try it to grow no more than one strain under the same aeroponic container. I never new my temps inmyclonerbox as because the water was always cool to the hand because at the time I had a veg room with its on a/c and the floor was cheap tile wich stayed cool but if it ever got warm I would just put a frozen water bottle or two in the resovoir. I never put anything else in my clone container except tap water. I did at first used clones solution. It's a solution that is suppose to help promote roots. It looks just like pee. Lol. I see why your water temps are warm because you have the pump for 24/7. They sell timers that you plug your pump into so that you can set your own specified time for your pumps to come on and off. Also the bigger clones you took are good. I would rather take bigger clones than smaller ones. But bigger clones not necessarily mean that they will produces more buds. It all about genetics. That's why soon I will be growing 6 moms and I will take cuttings from all 6 moms in search for the best genetics of my dna's holy grail kush. Journal coming soon.

 

[Aardvark]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

I just checked the temperature and it was an unacceptable 82.5 degrees (F). None of the Aerocloner plans or journals I have read before never said anything about needing a timer - even the instructions for the commercial units don't include timers, but they probably use a smaller pump that runs cooler, too.

I am sure that the temps would be a lot lower if the pump is only running 1 minute out of 15.
The timer you are talking about usually costs like $75, right? What size pump & container do you use?

To get the temperature down, I have the following combination of options:

1. Install a tote with a deeper reservoir,

2. Run the same large pump 24x7 on a 15-on/15-off timer,

3. Buy a smaller pump & use it in the same reservoir 24x7 - with or without the 15-on/15-off timer,

4. Buy a commercial unit and then probably discover some other problem!

I am studying my options and will look for your reply a little later.

 

[Aardvark]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Cloning Update

Despite my best efforts to sabotage the cloning process, I am finally seeing some response in a few of the cuttings; so far, I have seen 13 definite signs of roots sprouting, so my stress level has been lowered substantially. When I inspected the cuttings this evening, I trimmed the sickly-looking lower part of the stems and pushed the stalks down further to see if the "fresh meat" will be more conducive for roots sprouting.

What do you think? See for yourself if it looks like the cuttings have any potential ... in the meantime, I think I have proven that even I can generate some clones, so I am going to order a new tent, light set and the components I'll need to expand the hydroponic system. I currently have a slick external aquarium pump/filter that feeds & recirculates all 3 grow boxes' nutrients (pictures are on my first journal posts). I already have an upgraded pump head for it, although it doesn't appear to be that robust (like the one in my Aerocloner), I hope that it will be sufficient to power another tent's worth of mini-sprinklers. I'll do some testing before committing to a final configuration, but it could conceivably double my 18 mini-sprinkler heads' number.

Back to the cuttings; here's the topside view:

And now some of the roots sprouting, in no particular order:

Thanks for stopping by! I hope you benefit from my experience.

 

[Sky Rocket]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

I just checked the temperature and it was an unacceptable 82.5 degrees (F). None of the Aerocloner plans or journals I have read before never said anything about needing a timer - even the instructions for the commercial units don't include timers, but they probably use a smaller pump that runs cooler, too.

I am sure that the temps would be a lot lower if the pump is only running 1 minute out of 15.
The timer you are talking about usually costs like $75, right? What size pump & container do you use?

To get the temperature down, I have the following combination of options:

1. Install a tote with a deeper reservoir,

2. Run the same large pump 24x7 on a 15-on/15-off timer,

3. Buy a smaller pump & use it in the same reservoir 24x7 - with or without the 15-on/15-off timer,

4. Buy a commercial unit and then probably discover some other problem!

I am studying my options and will look for your reply a little later.

1. No waste of time and money.
2. That should help dramatically.
3. Yes smaller up wich should result in cooler temps using 15on 15 off
4. No. You would be wasting more money.


I use a 18 gallon Rubbermaid tote with a Eco plus 396l pump with a adjustable time that I set for 1 minute on 5 minutes off. Yes the commercial clones are different and they are set to run continuously. But me and the old stinkbuddies do it different. You don't have to run your pump continuously for 24/7. Those commercial cloning machines are way to expensive for my taste wich you can make cheaper. Check out
420fied's DIY 50 site Aero cloner
before you make any more drastic moves. Your res temp should be on the 68 degree range

 

[Sky Rocket]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

I just saw your root porn. Congrats man. Now throw some frozen water bottles in there to keep your water temp cool. What kind of tent are you getting?

 

[Aardvark]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

I am leaning towards another Secret Jardin, this time a 5'x5'x80" - it will fit into my space if I move my existing tent 6" towards the corner, which I will have to do when I drain & refill the nutrient reservoir - and that is due by the end of this weekend.

I put the Aerocloner pump on a 15/15 timer, which should take care of the temperature issue. Since I now have some roots, I will wait until the 2-week point (Friday after next) to take stock of what I have and take more cuttings to fill in the capacity of the new tent - which will be 100% clones to help manage the light/height, which has been a big challenge working with the seedling plants.

The pump you are using looks just like the one I picked out at Lowe's today that I want to use with the redesigned Aerocloner; it is a Tetra 425 GPH unit with 1/2" & 3/4" outlet options out the top, but it does not accommodate a filter - I will have to kluge something together with some more poly batting, because I am going to use this one to downsize the pump in my Aerocloner.

I may delay the reservoir reset until I actually get the new tent assembled, so I can make the most of the opportunity - essentially rebuilding the entire grow-op. I have to pull everything out of the existing tent so I can clean up the wet, crusty nutrient residue left over from a small but persistent leak that I have in a fitting that I forgot to put Teflon tape on (Dohhh!).

If I get too ambitious with the expansion, I have to be careful not to go too far because I could end up redoing everything mid-grow, including cutting the roots of the smaller Indica-dominant plants. I don't have to do all of that, but it would be a nice "perfect" setup after that.

 

[Aardvark]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

Good morning, glory!

I found this morning that the Aerocloner temperature was still too high at 78.4 degrees (F) after all night on the 15-on/15-off pump schedule, so I changed it to 15-on/30-off to see whether that keeps it cooler. I am out for a few hours getting the truck worked on and will check it when I return this afternoon.

New roots are showing on 16 of the cuttings; all of the them are sprouting along the side of the stalks and the bottom end seems to be either spongy or hard and darker as though the end were dying off; I have been trimming off the spongy parts to give the roots a chance.

I think today is critical because almost all of the cuttings have "bunched" their leaves together - if they are going to live, the next 24 hours will demonstrate this one way or the other.

AFTERNOON EDIT:

Upon my return from the repair garage, the temperature is a stable 74.5 degrees (F) - I am happy now, especially since I see good root activity on many more of the cuttings. Now I really have to get another tent setup with lights & hydro. I had planned on going out of town for this weekend, so the cuttings should be ready for replanting & hardening by the time I get back. I can keep them in the Aerocloner to vegg until the new tent is set up; I am guessing the following weekend if I do everything right. I just need to decide what size tent and light setup to get ASAP.

Does anyone have any advice on lighting "deals"?

I would appreciate it if I can get some good advice on purchasing a 1000-Watt MH/HPS lighting bundle - please?

I saw a nice long-term grow journal where the JD Lightings 1000-Watt dimmable setup was used. They have three different bundles available and have what appears to be a good product with great support. The only concern I have is that their price doesn't seem to be competitive with the bundles I see online elsewhere - roughly speaking, there is an apparent 30%-50% difference between the prices and I am struggling to justify the premium. I should probably contact them to sort it out, but some good old advice would be better.

 

[Aardvark]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Clones Ready for Hardening!

Hey peeps, I got back home from a weekend fishing trip in Maine and wanted to tell you that the cuttings really took off while I was gone for two days. When I left, there were only about 16 cuttings showing modest root growth; I had put a mild Flora "A" mix (320 PPM) in the Aerocloner box tapwater and got wonderful results - the cuttings are all sprouting robust roots now and I could not be happier about the results.

Tomorrow, I will replant them into some coco fiber pots & perlite, put some nutrients & reverse-osmosis (RO) filtered water in the Aerocloner box so they can vegg for a couple weeks before going into a Sea of Green (SoG) hydro arrangement in the new tent - which I still need to select, purchase and setup (along with lights and another hydro system).

I picked up my Argon/CO2 welding gas tank at my storage facility and will get it filled tomorrow with straight CO2. Even though Argon is an inert gas, I am unsure what the effects on my garden would be - and it is only about $15 to refill a 20 pound tank anyway.

Take care and keep in touch!

A very bushy crop after only two days unattended:

The cuttings; a little dry on top and a few fan leaves have been drained of nutrients:

Cuttings after the yellow leaves are trimmed and then the group is sprayed with a 30%-strength nutrient solution for foliar feeding:

Some real nice healthy roots sprouting almost everywhere; in two of the foam covers, I found that the roots had started to tunnel through the neoprene rubber collar where they were growing too high up under the collar; I just pulled the stem lower into the pot:

Thanks for stopping by!

 

[Sky Rocket]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

Looking good my man. The best light on the market right now is the sun system Luxor 8" based in a light reflector test. But I used 2x1000 8" magnum hoods with digital ballast.

 

[Aardvark]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

Thanks, Skyrocket.

I placed all but 3 of the clones into their veggy home, 2" coco net-pot liners full of Perlite. The 3 that didn't go are ones that I had to either "re-start" or replace, due to non-performance. I was running 320 PPM in this batch, and on my way home from Maine I stopped to check out a new hydro store and picked up a small bottle of SuperThrive, so I'll renew the solution and add a little. Right now the Aerocloner runs 24x7 lights and the pump runs 15-on/45-off. After the 3 "late starters" set their roots, I will change the photoperiod to a 20-on/4-off photoperiod and the pump will remain on the same 15/45 schedule. The nutrients are a weak mixture of tapwater, 300 PPM of Flora A&B (equal amounts at 30% strength). After about a week, I will change over from tapwater to RO water to start the vegetative growth cycle in earnest.

I got everything together so I could "Harden" my clones:

• 2" coco net-pot liners (trimmed)
• 2" net-pots (trimmed)
• 30%/300 PPM nutrient solution
• Perlite (rinsed with RO water first!)
• Neoprene plant-site covers

I first soaked the coco net-pot liners in the weak nutrient solution; it helps me separate them and I also made regular cuts all around the base of each coco liner so the roots won't have to struggle to grow out:

Since I am putting thick neoprene covers on each plant site, I need to make sure it will fit; I just cut the top 1/8" off of each coco liner before filling each with the Perlite, clone & cover:

Just a little Perlite across the bottom of the coco liner, followed by the clone; I try to get the roots as deep in the pot as possible by twisting it into place so the roots are circular:

Then I cover the roots by topping off with more Perlite, followed by the neoprene collar; I dip the whole pot into the weak nutrient solution to wash any loose Perlite away:

It sure looks nice and tidy under there now:

Oohh no! A noob mistake - I failed to rinse the Perlite before packing it into the pots;

It started to get foamy right away - like I was doing laundry:

So I rinsed everything twice, including running the pump:

I even let the clones soak for about ten minutes in the tapwater to try and clear any remaining Perlite-foamy-making-stuff:

Cloning solution looks much clearer now that I rinsed the Perlite dust out of the system:

Next Steps...
A new Tent, Light & Ventilation & System
Now I have to purchase the expansion tent, light system and hydro system components, as well as build the hydro and ventilation systems. I should also decide whether or not to do the "serious" defoliation and get rid of 25% of the existing tent's growth so the rest of the plants can get better light. That's just the way it worked out with this first grow, starting from seed on a mixed-schedule and variety of Sativa/Indica strains.

With the massive time differences between these phenotypes, I will probably be harvesting the Indica-dominant strains in 4 weeks and the Sativa girls several weeks later. I sure am learning a lot - mostly what not to do!

I also think that I need to buy some kind of controller or system to keep this running now; I think it can be reasonably accomplished if I get this setup to manage the timing of the nutrient pump, CO2 enrichment and ventilation/temperature control, with my monitoring the pH & PPM manually; I don't think it is worthwhile at this early stage of my efforts to have absolute PPM-level control over CO2 - especially since it would cost an additional $300 for a meter/controller.

Managing My Mixed Strain Grows
Although it is too late to change my mind about which strains to bunch together in this batch of clones, I guess I should seriously consider planning on which strains to put together in their respective tent - separating the Sativa from Indica in different tents because of the different growth schedules, but I don't know enough to know what I should do about that - it would probably result in a third tent setup, which is just going overboard!(HELP! What is a good method to manage a mixed Sativa/Indica crop?).

Here is a friendly neighbor I found in here today - a wicked-looking spider that was safely relocated outdoors

Thanks again for your interest - please give me a shout if you have any questions or advice to give because I really appreciate and need it - I have been very lucky so far and don't want to stretch the odds of success too far.

PS: Question: Anyone want to hazard a guess of how long it will be before I see roots coming out of the coco?

 

[Sky Rocket]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

Not to burst your bubble but since you are doing a aero/dwc there's no need for perlite or coco. There really is no medium needed except for the neoprene covers.

 

[Aardvark]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

Not to burst your bubble but since you are doing a aero/dwc there's no need for perlite or coco. There really is no medium needed except for the neoprene covers.

Well, actually, this is my preference, which is evolving. I know the neoprene can support the plant sometimes to/through flowering, but my current crop got very big because I waited for the seedlings to show their sex and a 44"+ plant is too heavy for a neoprene collar alone. It is probably OK for the clone-only SoG too, of course, but I have about 5 feet of vertical grow space if it ends up going crazy. These Sativa plants just refuse to go into full flower and they are at 65% of my tent's vertical growth capacity.

I also use different collars for cloning than I do for growing. The cloning collars are completely closed at the center with an "x" cut; the growth collars have a 1/4" hole in the middle. When I made up the current plants, I didn't use any collar at all and the tops of the super starter plugs are always covered in mold/mildew. I will probably never use those SSPs again - they were even moldy when I opened the bag, which was damp.

In addition, this is the form the plants will be in for the rest of their lives - all the way through harvest - and some may end up being mothers, so I want to have a solid foundation for a long life-cycle if it comes to that. If one of these goes all the way and be a mother (which I really doubt to be honest, I have lots to work with), the coco will be easier to transplant into earth, too.

That's the way I was thinking, at least. What kind of support do you find is best for those plants that run large?

 

[Aardvark]

Aardvark's Noob Circus Tent Hydro Grow: Big-Time Trouble - WTF? Seeds on My Females?

Really? Seeds on my Females? Fuck!

OK, this is a complete surprise; I have done a lot of research, but none of it covered this subject:
Seeds in a Virgin Female - is it normal or a sign of trouble?

Two of my taller (36") plants that are Sativa-dominant Sannie's Jack F6 (from Holland seed supplier Sannie) that have been flowering for 5 weeks now are now showing some very robust seeds - and without being exposed to Male pollen (as far as I know). None of my seedlings turned into Males - I just thought some flower pods were going to be pollen pods but it was a false alarm.

These 2 plants also have 3-leaf sets along the top branches and cola sections, which are growing somewhat sideways because they got too tall and had to be tied down; the earlier growth had plenty of 5 & 7-leaf sets at each node, so is the 3-leaf set an indication of it responding to this lateral position by growing in a SCRoG profile?

Looks normal, right?

These are seeds for sure; I opened one & found the usual tap root inside

I know that seeing a few seeds in my bought buds were always welcome additions in the past, adding them to my collection for that day when I start my own garden, but I have never experienced it from the grower's perspective - how many seeds should I expect? Should I just ignore this latest development? I can't see where there would be anything I could do about it anyway, and if anything, I might be grateful for the seeds if I end up restarting from seed (heaven forbid).

Overcrowding Relief:
I decided to remove a few of the underperforming plants and replanted them into small pots, which are now outside on the front porch. As soon as they are sufficiently "hardened", I will take them out to my guerilla grow site and if it looks undisturbed, will add these to the others. This was simply to give the plants in the tent better light exposure.

I also found that even on a 15-on/45-off pump timer that the Aerocloner temperature was still too high at 78 degrees (F), so I am replacing the pump with a smaller unit to keep the solution cooler. I will also double-up on Aerocloner capacity and build another identical unit, except that I will be using a deeper 17-gallon tote on both. That way, I can rotate fresh clones to grow on through the vegetative stage and repeat the cycle when the opportunity is presented.

 

[Aardvark]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

Hey peeps, time for a quick update: Week 7 of Flowering

The clones are for the most part doing well in terms of root growth; on top, however, a few are getting sickly-looking. I did upsize the Aerocloner tote from 10 to 17 gallons, changed the solution from tapwater to RO water and added a weak Flora A&B solution, Superthrive and Epsom Salts, up to 350 PPM and temps are from 72-74 degrees (F).

I think I will take my time in picking which ones I will grow out, as trying to manage so many different strains and phenotypes in the same environment has proven to be too much for this noob to handle - my worst mistake so far. I was trying to go by what the grower supplying the seeds were saying about these aspects and by that logic, it should have been manageable; however, that "research" turned out to be nothing more than wishful thinking and I feel foolish. The most frustrating aspect is that some plants (mostly Indica-dominant) are in the last half of flowering and the others have hardly started making their colas. After this experience, I won't be doing multi-strain grows from seed unless I have a lot more room and growing assets to match. Growing multiple strains from clones may be just as risky.

Hey, I see that one of my plants is showing red stems at the top of it; this plant is very healthy-looking, otherwise, is Sativa-dominant mix "Sour Neville X Jack Hammer". With a height of 39", it is one of the tallest at week 7. Does anyone have an idea of what causes this or if it indicates a problem? It is the only plant showing red.

I did get my CO2 tank out of storage
It turned out to be filled full with an Argon/CO2 mix which is for my MIG welder. Argon is an inert gas, so it should have no effect on the plants and I will use the tank up and have it refiled with straight CO2. I hope this isn't a mistake!


Thanks for keeping up with my first grow.

 

[Sky Rocket]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

Personally I think running different strains would be good if each plant in its own container. Why did you put Epsom salt in your cloner?

 

[Aardvark]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

Personally I think running different strains would be good if each plant in its own container. Why did you put Epsom salt in your cloner?

Hey Sky Rocket. The problem in my case is that the nutrient solution is shared among all three grow boxes; I would have to get a smaller pump for each box and change the plumbing around in order to isolate each from one another, but there are still multiple strains in each box, so I don't gain anything unless I segregate the strains in a new grow.

I use Epsom Salts to add Calcium and Magnesium to the nutrient solution, which is much cheaper than buying CaliMag. I make sure that my pH gets down to 5.2 once a week, where these two minerals can be absorbed into the roots. This is to avoid the brown, curling tips and purple spots on the leaves I experienced early in the grow, which can be caused by a deficiency or overdosing of these two minerals.

The effective absorption pH range of Minerals is demonstrated in this chart:

I turned on my Argon/CO2 bottle today and will see how that does over the weekend. I have decided to buy a C.A.P. XGC-1E Extreme Greenhouse Controller to optimize the CO2 use and maintain temperatures; I was referred by the manufacturer to a California hydro dealer that has refurbished C.A.P. equipment at a discount ($410) and still has the 5-year warranty. This will replace my light and pump timers in the flowering tent; which I am replacing with a larger unit so I can setup a real SoG. The original tent will for late-blooming plants from this batch that were grown from seed, as well as any Mothers I want to keep. There are also several outside plants in pots.

Any ideas on why the one plant is turning red?

 

[Sky Rocket]

Re: Aardvark's New Grow 12 Hybrid Dutch Strains - Seed-SoG-Tent - 600W CFL Hydro-Aero

I'm not sure why your plant is turning red. Try posting it in the "frequently ask questions," or "Problems, pest, and disease and control section.". When you start your sog are you gong from straight from rooted clone to flower?