Autos v. Photos - A 5x5 No Rules Fight for Yield: A Jon & NickHardy Gig

[Wastei]

Lol. You act like your opinion on how I grow is somehow important to me. Like I'm waiting for you to bless my practices and if not scramble to change them so they'll be acceptable. You come off like you're somehow the last word on how to grow weed correctly.

I'm sorry if you take things personally. I'm not saying how anyone should live there lives or grow their plants? I'm only here sharing and giving help from my own experience.

 

[420]

Thanks for the suggestion but I do my best to stay away from politics and marketing. It's not my place to be.

Nothing to do with either, you said measuring brix was a waste, so I called in the brix master to give experienced feedback

 

[Delps8]

Lol. You act like your opinion on how I grow is somehow important to me. Like I'm waiting for you to bless my practices and if not scramble to change them so they'll be acceptable. You come off like you're somehow the last word on how to grow weed correctly.

I recently found the button that fixes this particular issue.

 

[Kreigen]

Long Pants in Thailand is just a Memory for me. Hell most of the time I wear rubber boots and Commando Shorts. Flipflops all over the place.

 

[NickHardy]

Wow - not the kind of attitudes I like reading.

There seems to be the assumption that high Brix levels are essential or needed and grow better plants.

If we step back from that - essentially its like many other aspects of growing - subjective opinion. Brix is considered important measure for fruit producers and say grapes for wine production where the sugars are desirable in commercial operations. The Brix readings are done in a lab not with the hand testers some of us have. I can see the importance for organic growers because it gives an indication of how well their soil is behaving. However, as has been mentioned already no small to large scale commercial grower uses it as a metric for their plants that I am aware of - and these are the people that have the time and resources to test properly.

For sure I suspect its helpful for pest control but then there are other ways, organic even (UVC lighting - real sub 500nm melt your eyes type) that can deal with this.

The fact that some people assign a high importance to it does not warrant attacks on the alternate beliefs and certainly not their motivations for discussing an alternative view to their own.

Jon asked for Brix advice, I’ve questioned its importance in the past as well. This is meant to be about learning and sharing of advice. I’m sure there are plenty reading thinking why the controversy? Either Brix is super important or its not?

For me I’d lean towards not much and certainly not in coco/hydro. Its simply a different style of grow.

I thought Wastei raised perfectly reasonable and knowledgeable points.

I’d add that ignoring members is a personal matter and showing who you have ignored is pretty sad.

Nick

 

[NickHardy]

Long Pants in Thailand is just a Memory for me. Hell most of the time I wear rubber boots and Commando Shorts. Flipflops all over the place.

Might be better answered in my off topic thread “In the land of smiles” in my signature.

I will say this beware any visits to the Thai Consulate in Penang. I had to rent a pair of hippy pants to gain entry!

 

[NickHardy]

So my light is broken confirmed. The manufacturer is visiting Bangkok in a week or two and wants to send me the replacement part from there which to be fair is probably going to be about the same time frame.

Above are some pictures they sent me for trouble shooting, there’s a video too but can’t be bothered to upload to vimeo unless someone is especially interested.

Its a twin driver model which they say it needs because it has 3000k white 5000k white 2x reds and 1x UV (A/B) sets of diodes and runs to 1000w (they do a 2000w version as well!)

The bit that failed is the triple dimmer in controller the last picture, that does 3000k, 5000k and UV. The reds as on basically all lights plays tagalong.

Anyway included only for nerdiness - what does it mean for me in this grow? Well I haven’t tested yet but I reckon maybe I’m at sub 1000 ppfd so I’m only a shade above those of you who reckon 800 or so is max! This is a first for me

I tend to run lucky so maybe it really is better and I win!

I’m not so sure though. I do have the 240w side lighting as well for the first time to help mitigate it. Might order 3 more of those. Much as I’d like more, much moooooor! That’s just going to have to wait. I’m going to be a week late with the Bloom Explode but that’s OK. its a marathon not a sprint.

Nick

 

[CaptainLucky]

So, let’s take a peek in a little more photographic detail at the Jungle as she is today, Day 47.

Here’s a group shot and a canopy shot of the Jungle as a whole:

IMG_4927.jpeg

• Jon
• Feb 25, 2024

IMG_4928.jpeg

• Jon
• Feb 25, 2024

I engaged my flower booster feature on the light today. This increases the wattage from 550 to 680. It also brings in reds, far reds, IR and a couple UV diodes. As such I raised the light accordingly. Here’s what my light bars look like with the booster engaged. You can see there are a ton of reds. This gives me the red leaning overhead, augmented with the regular full spectrum from the side lights. They are still at 25% and will bump up to 50% (cursed incremental dimmer, lol) when all the plants have buds and have stacked a while and such.

IMG_4929.jpeg

• Jon
• Feb 25, 2024

Here’s the Northern Lights semi organic auto:

IMG_4930.jpeg

• Jon
• Feb 25, 2024

And some cola shots - here’s the Bruce Banner #3 auto:

IMG_4937.jpeg

• Jon
• Feb 25, 2024

This is the Gorilla Cookies auto in the coco 10:

IMG_4933.jpeg

• Jon
• Feb 25, 2024

Here’s the Skywalker semi organic auto:

IMG_4932.jpeg

• Jon
• Feb 25, 2024

Here’s the state of the Apple Fritter coco/res girl, not quite showing budlets yet:

IMG_4935.jpeg

• Jon
• Feb 25, 2024

This is the gorgeous Trizkit with her gigantic fan leaves, emerald green color, and unruly nature, not yet in flower (whoa!), but almost there. If I’m going to have a problem and have to chop branches I wouldn’t otherwise chop it’s this girl right here:

IMG_4936.jpeg

• Jon
• Feb 25, 2024

And so we go. My undercarriage work is finished except for stragglers. All infrastructure is solid and in place. All the plants are healthy. Defol as required is about all I do now, and watch the show: phew.

I can’t believe that I was missing this, I turned off my notifications because I was getting flooded with them. But anyways I’m here now and not going anywhere. Question for Jon, what schedule do you have your lights on? CL

 

[Jon]

PH meter crapped the bed, lol..

been just filtered water and cal mag first 23 days

BUT, now i got a new meter.

Ah! Well, at least you solved it. I figured you knew better than to ph to 7.3. Lol!

 

[Jon]

So my light is broken confirmed. The manufacturer is visiting Bangkok in a week or two and wants to send me the replacement part from there which to be fair is probably going to be about the same time frame.

Above are some pictures they sent me for trouble shooting, there’s a video too but can’t be bothered to upload to vimeo unless someone is especially interested.

Its a twin driver model which they say it needs because it has 3000k white 5000k white 2x reds and 1x UV (A/B) sets of diodes and runs to 1000w (they do a 2000w version as well!)

The bit that failed is the triple dimmer in controller the last picture, that does 3000k, 5000k and UV. The reds as on basically all lights plays tagalong.

Anyway included only for nerdiness - what does it mean for me in this grow? Well I haven’t tested yet but I reckon maybe I’m at sub 1000 ppfd so I’m only a shade above those of you who reckon 800 or so is max! This is a first for me

I tend to run lucky so maybe it really is better and I win!

I’m not so sure though. I do have the 240w side lighting as well for the first time to help mitigate it. Might order 3 more of those. Much as I’d like more, much moooooor! That’s just going to have to wait. I’m going to be a week late with the Bloom Explode but that’s OK. its a marathon not a sprint.

Nick

So you have to operate compromised until the manufacturer shows up in a few weeks? Ouch. Sorry bud.

 

[Jon]

I can’t believe that I was missing this, I turned off my notifications because I was getting flooded with them. But anyways I’m here now and not going anywhere. Question for Jon, what schedule do you have your lights on? CL

Hey @CaptainLucky - don’t feel bad man, I haven’t gotten around much lately either. But to answer your question, I’m on 20/4 to the end. I went 24/0 to pistils.

 

[Jon]

Wow - not the kind of attitudes I like reading.

There seems to be the assumption that high Brix levels are essential or needed and grow better plants.

If we step back from that - essentially its like many other aspects of growing - subjective opinion. Brix is considered important measure for fruit producers and say grapes for wine production where the sugars are desirable in commercial operations. The Brix readings are done in a lab not with the hand testers some of us have. I can see the importance for organic growers because it gives an indication of how well their soil is behaving. However, as has been mentioned already no small to large scale commercial grower uses it as a metric for their plants that I am aware of - and these are the people that have the time and resources to test properly.

For sure I suspect its helpful for pest control but then there are other ways, organic even (UVC lighting - real sub 500nm melt your eyes type) that can deal with this.

The fact that some people assign a high importance to it does not warrant attacks on the alternate beliefs and certainly not their motivations for discussing an alternative view to their own.

Jon asked for Brix advice, I’ve questioned its importance in the past as well. This is meant to be about learning and sharing of advice. I’m sure there are plenty reading thinking why the controversy? Either Brix is super important or its not?

For me I’d lean towards not much and certainly not in coco/hydro. Its simply a different style of grow.

I thought Wastei raised perfectly reasonable and knowledgeable points.

I’d add that ignoring members is a personal matter and showing who you have ignored is pretty sad.

Nick

Sounds like @NickHardy has spoken.

 

[Jon]

Nothing to do with either, you said measuring brix was a waste, so I called in the brix master to give experienced feedback

We appreciate anytime you actually add content @420 - Rob, and thanks very much. It certainly helps me. I don’t know if measuring Brix is essential in coco/chem or not. I don’t care what the coco Brix numbers are, just the organics. I only find the difference interesting and wonder why it would be. The “Brix Master” certainly knows his shit! He says much of what Gee and Keffka say. Since I’m in process of going full organic, I want and need to know about Brix and all the ins and outs. Some feel it’s a silly measurement apparently. Some do not. I don’t know, but from what I’ve gathered so far, if I’m going to grow organic and be good at it, I should know Brix. Thanks again.

 

[CaptainLucky]

So my light is broken confirmed. The manufacturer is visiting Bangkok in a week or two and wants to send me the replacement part from there which to be fair is probably going to be about the same time frame.

Above are some pictures they sent me for trouble shooting, there’s a video too but can’t be bothered to upload to vimeo unless someone is especially interested.

Its a twin driver model which they say it needs because it has 3000k white 5000k white 2x reds and 1x UV (A/B) sets of diodes and runs to 1000w (they do a 2000w version as well!)

The bit that failed is the triple dimmer in controller the last picture, that does 3000k, 5000k and UV. The reds as on basically all lights plays tagalong.

Anyway included only for nerdiness - what does it mean for me in this grow? Well I haven’t tested yet but I reckon maybe I’m at sub 1000 ppfd so I’m only a shade above those of you who reckon 800 or so is max! This is a first for me

I tend to run lucky so maybe it really is better and I win!

I’m not so sure though. I do have the 240w side lighting as well for the first time to help mitigate it. Might order 3 more of those. Much as I’d like more, much moooooor! That’s just going to have to wait. I’m going to be a week late with the Bloom Explode but that’s OK. its a marathon not a sprint.

Nick

Hey Nick since I know how much you’re into lights. I was wondering if you ever heard of a company called Foshe? They claim they they’re the best in the business and improve your yields. They custom lighting for your business but I think they might be a bit pricey. CL

 

[Jon]

Hey Nick since I know how much you’re into lights. I was wondering if you ever heard of a company called Foshe? They claim they they’re the best in the business and improve your yields. They custom lighting for your business but I think they might be a bit pricey. CL

That’s my light company CL! Best in the world! I can’t afford one yet. Lol! My Yoda just switched out his entire greenhouse setup from Gavita 1700 e Pros to the Fohse, not sure what commercial model. They rock!

 

[Azimuth]

There seems to be the assumption that high Brix levels are essential or needed and grow better plants.

That's certainly not what I'm saying. Brix is a tool, much like measuring pH or ppm's for some people, neither of which I use. Doesn't mean they're useless, just that I don't use them. Others think they're essential inputs for how they like to grow.

My point was that there are many ways to successfully grow this plant and just because some other group uses or doesn't use it, pro growers or not, doesn't mean it's not useful info for some.

 

[CaptainLucky]

thatThat’s my light company CL! Best in the world! I can’t afford one yet. Lol! My Yoda just switched out his entire greenhouse setup from Gavita 1700 e Pros to the Fohse, not sure what commercial model. They rock!

I just got a email from them saying they are having a webinar. I’ve been following them for a while now and they always have something interesting going on. CL

 

[Roy Growin]

That's certainly not what I'm saying. Brix is a tool, much like measuring pH or ppm's for some people, neither of which I use. Doesn't mean they're useless, just that I don't use them. Others think they're essential inputs for how they like to grow.

My point was that there are many ways to successfully grow this plant and just because some other group uses or doesn't use it, pro growers or not, doesn't mean it's not useful info for some.

This is true - the only measurement I need is a 5ml pipette for nutrients
I certainly don't worry about 'optimizing' my plants with any gunk or numbers - they do alright

 

[Keffka]

As long as the medium is active with good moisture level it has the same signal pathways regardless and plants can't see difference from synthetical made ions compared to them made by nature. It has no border control or brain. Plants use the same carriers and ion channels regardless of running synthetics or organics and need readily available ions to grow.

It’s not simply a matter of signal pathways and ions. Plant growth requires far more than nutrient A at time X. Especially natural plant growth.

There’s a reason your synthetically grown products never taste as good, or smell as good, or even have a remotely complex profile to them. There’s a reason synthetics produce massive quantities of homogeneous and underwhelming flower.

These are things institutions ignore because they’re inconvenient. They fly directly in the face of “an ion is an ion”. Which makes sense, I wouldn’t bite the hand that’s funding me either.

If all plants were grown equally, I wouldn’t be able to tell when someone hands me a synthetically grown joint. If all plants were equal I wouldn’t be able to tell that red tomato my neighbor grew that tastes like water was grown synthetically.

It has been shown that plants that are given carbon based nutrients used markedly lower metabolic energy to convert those nutrients into usable forms. Even “readily available” synthetics still need to be broken down inside the plant and said plant wastes a lot of energy doing so. Don’t even get me started on the fact that you’re pumping heavy metals directly into your flowers since cannabis is a hyper accumulator.

That aside, I would love to see you debate Brix on the Brix page. I’m not a believer in either direction and would love to see a healthy debate around it.

 

[NickHardy]

765 PPFD left middle. Right middle 685 or something. Anyway some people’s target right? Steady 50 DLI and 800 PPFD for flower.

Like seriously whats happened to me?! Its like when some superhero just at the end loses their superpower has to learn their humanity and win without the super power. Works in the movies kids but I’m fucked

Because at that low PPFD my Co2 is pointless. Bam!

I’ve already Whatsapped the light company in my most disappointed Chingliish by concern and worry and maybe they could alter the plan somewhat. Move it forwards perhaps?

Oh dear dear, dear!

OK - simple not easy to implement plan rejig the lights - I’m going to swap out this light to the other 5x5 and bring in the 315CMH and the @Mars Hydro FC4800 EVO from another grow we’re gonna harvest at the weekend.

That’ll tide me over and adds a bit pf jeopardy to the grow

Ha - that’s woken me up! Mixed 300L of two types of nutes today and personally fed - need to check - either 99 or 100 plants today.

Starting to feel it again.

765 PPFD pah!