Fox Farms Soil: Ocean Forest or Happy Frog

[Setting Sun]

Hi PhishyPhil!

Listen man, as far as I'm concerned, there are no "nooby" questions, just questions, and it's good that you asked.

I meant mixed in evenly throughout the soil.

When I mixed it, I just added one part Perlite to two parts soil.

wish you the best on your grow!

 

[Screwnuts33]

I recall ms.Fox from grow support saying that FFOF tends to compact towards the end of a grow if you don't add extra Perlite.

I'm currently using a mix of FFOF with 33% Perlite and it's working real well.

I can attest to this. I did about 20% pearlite on my current grow and it compacted pretty tight. I will be upping it to at least 30% for the next grow.

 

[Dain Bramage]

Well for my last grow i used a local store brand with 20% perlite and was not happy with the way it would dry out,very slowly.

Now I don't use fox farm but here is my presant soil-less mix

PRO-MIX BX 2 part's

WORM CASTINGS 1 part

CORSE PEARLITE 2 part

COCO COIR 1 part
The pro-mix bx is a good value in it's compresed bale.It comes perlite and vermiculate as well as mycorise a benafical fungi.It is p.h. ballanced with dolomitic lime but i ad a 1/2 tbl. spoon to be safe per gallon of mix.the worm castings are grate for conditining the soil.it also add's some nitrogen to the mix.I like the corse pearlite becuse it drains better. the cococoir is a new thing i am trying.

 

[Setting Sun]

I can attest to this. I did about 20% pearlite on my current grow and it compacted pretty tight. I will be upping it to at least 30% for the next grow.

I think if I was using at least 3-gallon pots and was able to water daily or at least every other day, I would go up to 50% Perlite with FFOF.

These plants just love that kind of drainage, and I think that 50% of a good soil like FFOF would still provide a nice buffer.

I don't think I'll ever use less than 33% again, no matter what size the container.

 

[Setting Sun]

Well for my last grow i used a local store brand with 20% perlite and was not happy with the way it would dry out,very slowly.

Now I don't use fox farm but here is my presant soil-less mix

PRO-MIX BX 2 part's

WORM CASTINGS 1 part

CORSE PEARLITE 2 part

COCO COIR 1 part
The pro-mix bx is a good value in it's compresed bale.It comes perlite and vermiculate as well as mycorise a benafical fungi.It is p.h. ballanced with dolomitic lime but i ad a 1/2 tbl. spoon to be safe per gallon of mix.the worm castings are grate for conditining the soil.it also add's some nitrogen to the mix.I like the corse pearlite becuse it drains better. the cococoir is a new thing i am trying.

That sounds like a great mix, and not hard at all to put together.

Roots Organic soil is excellent and coco-based. I think the coco is a great addition.

thanks Dain!

 

[DroJo]

Really? You guys had that problem? My last ladies had very well developped root systems and were very healthy with 75%FFOF 10-15% Perlite 10-15% Light Warrior, and I added a couple handfuls of vermiculite. I literally but rootball blocks into the garbage bag and threw it out like that. It had me paranoid for a while. But that's crazy you guys went through that

 

[Setting Sun]

I'm sure *lots* of people have grown nice plants just using FFOF straight up, but I like the added insurance from the 33% Perlite, and since it makes the mix much airier, I think the roots can't help but benefit.

Another couple things I like about lightening up the FFOF is that I can start giving my own nutes sooner without worrying about burn, and that it flushes easily and thoroughly.

I like to start my bloom nutes with as much of a "clean slate" as I can achieve, because I think that makes them more effective, and the lighter mix probably flushes cleaner.

Soil growers that tend to over-water (especially newbies) would also benefit a whole lot from 33-50% Perlite.

As a very knowledgeable acquaintance of mine said, "plants love that ****".

 

[DroJo]

Cool, ill def try throwin some more perlite in there on the next run. Thanks for the advice bro

+ Rep


dro

 

[Setting Sun]

thanks DroJo!

you will have to water more often, especially in bloom, so plan accordingly.

take care bro

 

[PhishyPhil]

SS, thanks a bunch. your more helpful than you know, because while i just started posting recently, i've been following people's journals for a while and reading some very informative posts written by you that have helped me, so thanks for all that you do.

for what its worth, id be using 5gal buckets and straight FFOF with fox farm nutes. right around week 5 in flowering my ladies start getting... hmm, weird looking? they develop these very tiny orangeish/rustish colored spots on the leaves. it almost looks like a PH problem, but my testers say thats under control. any idea if root issues could cause something like that?

 

[Setting Sun]

SS, thanks a bunch. your more helpful than you know, because while i just started posting recently, i've been following people's journals for a while and reading some very informative posts written by you that have helped me, so thanks for all that you do.

I'm glad some of my posts have been helpful to you. That's what the "grow room" is all about.

for what its worth, id be using 5gal buckets and straight FFOF with fox farm nutes. right around week 5 in flowering my ladies start getting... hmm, weird looking? they develop these very tiny orangeish/rustish colored spots on the leaves. it almost looks like a PH problem, but my testers say thats under control. any idea if root issues could cause something like that?

hard to say without pics, but it's quite possible that 5 gallons of straight FFOF might get a little too packed and soggy late in the grow.

If you could post a couple pics, that would be very helpful, and/or try the next run with 25, 33 or 50% Perlite and see if the problem resolves.

 

[Dain Bramage]

That sounds like a great mix, and not hard at all to put together.

Roots Organic soil is excellent and coco-based. I think the coco is a great addition.

thanks Dain!

thanks sun,I agree with you that a plant in the flowering stage dose a lot better in a medium that will dyr out every few days.This means more watterig but it lessen the chance of the lock out of the nute's...peace

 

[Steve McStoferson]

I have been hearing from a lot of people that the happy frog retains a lot of water compared to the ocean forest.. I haven't gotten to use my ocean forest yet, but I have a couple of weeks experience with the happy frog, and I still need to water them daily. My temps aren't very high, humidity is around 30-40%, and I'm running a 600w MH on them 24/0. I have a small fan blowing across them for fresh air. When I water them, I don't give them too much water, about 8oz per 3 gallon container. The biggest plant is only 7.5" as of now. I'll post back more results when they get bigger and I start hitting them with nutes.

 

[PhishyPhil]

SS, i'll try to get pics on here tonight or tomorrow morning. im thinking the bucket isn't draining proper either. i noticed today it doesn't have as many holes as the other buckets (which is odd because i tried to do them identically), and since its really only happening on the one plant, im really thinking thats it.

im gonna add holes for this project, and i plan on using at least 1/3 perlite next time, thanks again for all the info

 

[Setting Sun]

That might be it then.

you're very welcome bro.

 

[PhishyPhil]

~sigh~ my camera died well trying to get a few good pics uploaded to the comp, but i have them! also, while i normally let fan leaves fall off on their own, i decided to trim some of the really bad looking ones (they looked so bad i was worried that the disease would transfer just by touching other things )

 

[BWC BayArea]

Typo or the Original Formula?

This is a super soil, just water only. Substitute any FFOF for the Root Organics. Use the plain soil maybe some perlite to start seed, clones.

This is a Subcool soil recipe.
This is yet one more Soil Mixing tutorial. This one is going to focus on making a batch in the city while keeping it neat and tidy. First we use a tarp and a sheet of plywood under so the shovel will slide easily as we mix and scoop.

Here is the recipe to make this concentrate!
You cannot grow plants directly in this super concentrate!

6 Bags Roots soil or equivalent high quality supped up grow soil
Note**I am trying a new product made by a local company that contains less fir bark called Harvest Moon
25 pounds Pure Worm Castings
½ cup Azomite trace minerals
2/3 Cup Sweet Lime IE Dolomite
1 Kilo Bone meal / IE 5 Pounds
1 Kilo Blood meal ( I use a bit more bone than Blood in this recipe)
1 Kilo Bat Guano bloom formula preferably Fruit bats
3/4 cup Epson Salts
The Perlite and Coco I happen to have and it will make a better mix but it is not necessary.
__________________

The fact that someone converted 1 kilo of bone meal to 5 pounds makes me question the credibility of this entire formula. Was this some type of typo?

 

[TorturedSoul]

Re: Typo or the Original Formula?

The fact that someone converted 1 kilo of bone meal to 5 pounds makes me question the credibility of this entire formula. Was this some type of typo?

Since 1 kilogram is just a pinch over 2.204 pounds? lol

 

[Bandit420]

I use Ocean Forest from the bag with no added perlite or anything else.
My reasons are the following.

When used in the proper container it is already a very well draining soil. It does not compact like a cheap clay dirt and restrict root growth. I veg my plants in 1 gallon pots and flower in 5 gallon pots.

It's the richest most nutrient packed bagged dirt on the market. It makes no sense to me to dilute it and have to use other products like calmag to make up for diluting it.

I use it with only the FF base three nute program and I dont have any problems with plant health, ph, growth rate, and yield quality/quantity is top notch.

 

[Dacob]

Thank you Setting Sun for the great info, and thank you PhishyPhil for the great question, and thanks to all who have contributed, as always I've learned a lot from reading the responses thoroughly!


I would not use Happy Frog -- I only use Ocean Forest. It's consistent -- if I buy a bag a year from now, it's pretty much going to be the same as what I can get today. It's stable -- the pH is generally within a reasonable range, and that's essential. I do not like to use pH-adjusting chemicals for any reason because they are harsh, so what I start with is my base and I have to live with the changes that result from all the nutes I use. So, if my base pH is in the right range, I'm starting from the right place.

It's pretty simple -- if something costs more, there is usually a reason. Not for everything of course, but products from the same manufacturer? Ya.


For the folks not cutting their ocean forest with perlite or vermic or something... I would watch out!! I don't feel that ocean forest has anywhere near enough perlite to begin with. I used to like a 4 to 1 ratio of soil to coarse perlite to avoid drying out too quick, but now I'm leaning towards a much higher ratio, in the range of 3 to 1 or even 2 to 1 -- this thread has got me thinking.

That might seem like a lot, but it's not -- too much drainage is really not a problem unless you want to water once a week and ignore your plants completely. If your soil is very light and aerated, you may see lower total moisure concentrations and you might have to water more often, but the benefit to the roots will be worth the extra attention you will have to devote. Look at aeroponics -- amazing stuff. Oxygen is essential.

I think I'm going to increase my soil to perlite ratio next time to see what I get, I used to think 50% would be way to much but I refuse to let old ideas get in the way of new information -- 25% is retaining a lot of water under LEDs, which I don't like. I also recommend adding some vermiculite with your perlite, and perhaps some pumice at the bottom of pots for drainage and root control.

Perlite and vermiculite are not the same though! They are made differently, from different materials, and they work very differently in your soil mix, so don't go just substituting one for the other, or adding sand for example instead and thinking the results will be the same.

You are Mother Nature in a bucket to your ladies -- so if you start with a soil mix that they won't like, no matter what other conditions you change, they will still be struggling to get their roots to work at peak efficiency.