James' First Indoor Soil Grow From Clones

[jameswri85]

What strain is it? 2 Love Lettuce, 3 Dutch Dragon, 6 Violet Kush and 1 unknown seed
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages? LL=75% Sativa, DD=75% Sativa, Rest= Unknown to Me
Is it in Veg or Flower stage? Veg
If in Veg... For how long?Not sure, i have had them for 3 weeks now
If in Flower stage... For how long? (-)2 weeks hopefully
Indoor or outdoor? Indoor
Soil or Hydro? Soil
If soil... what is in your mix?Pro Mix for Potting
If soil... What size pot?5 gallon for LL and DD, 3 gallon for Violets and seedling
Size of light?400 MH, T5 and 2 14W CFLs for seedling
Is it aircooled?No
Temp of Room/cab?82ish
RH of Room/cab?45-60%
PH of media or res?7
Any Pests ?No (knock on wood)
How often are you watering?Once when I re-potted right after i got them, once more 7 days later, and then once more 2 days ago with nutes (wk3)
Type and strength of ferts used?Fox Farms (Grow Big, Big Bloom (used week 3 of FF schedule), and hopefully soon Tiger Bloom, also superthrive.

Hello all, I have loved this site and been using the amazing search feature for a year or so now, i am finally able to give growing a serious go (unlike a failed half-***ed hydro attempt last year). I decided to go soil this time to get the basics under my belt.
I got my clones on sep. 4th the tallest ones 10-12", the violets 3-7". The next day i re-potted them in 3 and 5 gallon buckets and gave them a watering. With no growth 8 days later (sep. 13) i watered again, the next day i went out and got FF nutes, then sep. 15 i mixed up 1/3 strength of nutes and topped off all the clones with water/1/3 nute mix to get them used to the nutes (maybe 1/8- 1/4 gallon each).
They finally started growing (slowly) until sep. 21 when they were dry enough for another watering w/ full week 3 nutes. They have all grown at least and inch now, some a couple inches. Yesterday i built a CO2 generator (yeast, sugar, H2O, air-line tubing) for 4 of the violets as a comparison of if its worth it or not.

I used to have 7 Violet Kushs but had to give one away to a fellow patient to stay in limits as i want experience with clone and seed. I just hope that my little seedling ends up female!!!

I started this seedling sep.1 and gave it the same 1/3 strength nutes as the clones on sep. 15 and then re-potted her (alicia... positive reinforcement can only help i hope) into a 3 gallon on the 19th and fed with full strength nutes on the 20th (full strength= week 3 of FF schedule).

I have all this in a 5'X8'X7' room in the basement lined w/ emergency blankets, an oscillating fan going all the time, a 100 CFM bathroom fan pumping out through a homemade carbon filter and a 4" homemade carbon filter intake in an opposite corner.

That is all i can think of to catch everyone up for now, if i have left any important info out let me know and i'll fill it in as needed. I'm looking forward to the rest of this first grow/ learning experience and any help anyone may give along the way! Thanks in advance and thanks for all the help you have already given!!

 

[miwa]

how long you planning on keeping these plants in veg stage...do you plan on getting more light...i think the minimum on lights is 40w per sq. ft. i'm trying to run 60w/per sq. ft. i'm sure somebody will chime in with their 2 cents...good luck with your grow

 

[Icemud]

Hey Jameswri!!! Welcome to 420magazine!!! Started reading through your journal and looks like your doing a pretty good job so far!!! You will find that there are many very very knowledgable growers on this site that will help you with any questions or issues you may have, as well as a wealth of information about growing as you already have discovered!!!

great job so far, looks like you have been doing your research!! Also very nice setup that you have going!

I have some suggestions that may help you see faster growth and a better overall product at the end...please don't think your doing anything wrong because by the looks of it your doing well...but this is what I would suggest...(i'm still learning as well )

The one thing if there is room in your budget I would recommend for your room size is additional lighting.... for your room size you should actually get a little more light to get the most out of your grow..a good rule of thumb is about 60-100w per square foot (with HID lighting) and a 400w MH is good for about a 3'x3' area for great results. Ideally a 400wMH is most effective when within 12" and 18" of your canopy...any higher and your plants are not recieving the optimum amount of light to grow at there best....I know its quite a step up but a 1000w would rock this room well!!

You may want to look into doing some LST, topping or FIM which are training techniques to help you develop more tops, therefor a more plentyful yield.... there's plenty of info here on 420magazine.com on these training techniques!! Ive used LST and supercropping and they woork like magic!!

Also I noticed that in your photo's your leaves are looking a lil droopy on your bigger plants....could mean over/underwatering....and the last pic of the seedling...the leaves look a bit yellow on the outer edges, which could be a ph issue or a zinc defficiency...just thought I'd point it out to you, but you may want to wait for some more experienced growers opinions....

Great grow so far and please don't take this suggestions wrong, your doing a great job!! I definitely can't wait to see how these ladies come along!!!!

 

[jameswri85]

Thank you both for your interest and suggestions. I suppose i should have also added near future upgrades: 1000W HPS (lights are about 18" away now) im also getting a 400W MH bulb i can lay horizontally to maximize some lumen output (i plan on running both lights the whole way through flowering), 250 CFM inline fan hooked up to a homemade carbon scrubber, try to do a heat exchanger setup to cool it under 80, CO2, im going to hang another emergency blanket that i can keep moving back as my canopy expands (just to cut out the unused part of the room).

miwa- i plan on starting flowering when they get btw 18-30"

Icemud- i am doing LST on one of the Violet kushs, it has 3 growth spots right now:

I plan on topping and FIMing at least one each.
I believe supercropping is half snapping the stem to allow side branches to go up? If so... i accidentally tried my hand at this as i was reaching over a dutch dragon last night and when i stepped back i saw the top 5 inches of my plant slanted at a 45, so i may as well continue it on this one!

my bigger plants i was thinking my be N deficiency as the whole plant is droopy (hoping they will respond soon)
as for the seedling i think it may be a touch of nute burn as it showed up after feeding it but the newer the growth the less signs of it there are so i think it may be an old issue (again hoping). I will probably give it a couple days and watch it closely, i dont want to rush anything, i did that last time and didnt get anywhere but behind! if it does not clear up there will be more pictures soon as it progresses.

thank you both for all the tips/ knowledge/ suggestions/ and general interest

 

[Icemud]

I see a thumb with eyes!!! lmao!!! awesome!!! I'm still pretty new at growing but I'm glad my suggestions were considered!! great job so far James!!! You will love the LST!!

 

[ImmortalCulti]

Growing for Freedom!!!

What's good James, I'''m ImmortalCultivation.

LST'''ing is a great way to increase yeild AKA: create more top colas.

Check Out My Journel for instance, I have a couple of strawberry cough & Purple Kush LST'''ing at the moment. (IN MY WEEKLY UPDATE)

I also have a lot of topped and a FIM'd ladies. (ALSO IN WEEKLY UPDATE)

I would say during the middle of this week I topped a Blueberry & a '"PK"' the Blueberry grew two astonishing tops, now transplanted into final container. I also came across a '"SC"' I had topped which mutated into a multiple amount of tops. (WILL UPLOAD PICS SOON)

Also one my Blueberry's I FIM'd this week is growing three perfectly synchronized tops. (First one in red 16oz container on WEEKLY UPDATE)

Also when you "'TOP"' unlike "'FIMMING"' you can clone the top and create a new lady. (SEEDLING/CLONE TRAY w/ HUMIDITY DOME)

***How does that little "'CLAY WORM"' work to help you know when to water?
See them all the time, always wonder'''d, never bought. Don'''t think i'd need it for my '"SOILLESS COCO"' grow, can treat like Hydro or Soil, but I prefer the Hydro Method and ONLY USING COCO SAFE NUTRIENTS AND EXSPECIALLY FULL ORGANICS.

***The problem to me looks like a lockout, (WHAT IS YOUR PH READING) or your salts haven't been properly flushed (HAVE YOU OR WHEN DO YOU FLUSH). COULD be a Nitrogen, CAL-MAG, or Potassium defficency. I would lean more on a "'CAL-MAG"' defficency since your using FF, Had plenty of problems and have successfully saved "'NUTRI"' defficent ladies.

Check these links out...Hope it helps!!!

nutrient difficent cannabis - Bing Images


Immortal Cultivations' Indoor Coco Garden PK - Strawberry Cough - Lemon Haze & Others


StayTrue:.
ImmortalCultivation

 

[jameswri85]

Hello ImmortalCultivation and thanks for checking out my journal.

The other day when i accidentally supercropped i thought i was going to have to top that plant and make the clone but i cant until paperwork is finished for me getting a patient (and 12 more plants), and i got lucky that it didnt break through. i just need to make sure the paperwork is all set before i go to flower so i can take clones for my next crop!

I need to decide on which ones im going to top/FIM, the love lettuces look a little spindly and i feel they may not hold the unbalanced multi-tops, the dutch dragons are my top choice but they are already a little taller than i wanted them to be to try it (and one is supercropped now).
I may end up LSTing a couple more Violets and probably FIM/top one or two as well.

As for my little wormies, i just bought 2 right before my last watering to give them a try. They are suppose to change from darker to lighter in color as the water dries out of the Terracotta. so far i have not noticed a change in color and when i first soaked them before use it seemed like a subtle difference to me. if nothing else they make a nice little pet for my lady. Personally so far i like just picking up the bucket and feeling the weight, seems to be more accurate then the wormie to me.

The soil im using came with dolomite in it and balances it to 7. i wanted to try to get down to the 6.5 area but im not sure if the built in dolomite would just bump it back to 7. i havent really done a flush as they were not getting nutes after they were made into clones and i figured this would end up over-watering them. i was also thinking a magnesium deficiency may have been an issue because on one of the dutch dragons i had interveinal yellowing but that went away after i fed her.

for you for help and good luck with your new grow, hope all goes well!!!

 

[Mad Woodsman]

looks good man.
why do you have a carbon filter on the intake though?
maybe I misunderstood your setup.

 

[jameswri85]

looks good man.
why do you have a carbon filter on the intake though?
maybe I misunderstood your setup.

i put one on the intake because i smoke in my room thats in a non-smoking house and i didnt want odors backing out of it. i also had to find a way to have a 4" hole while keeping it sealed from light and household critters and that served my purpose. or just in case my exhaust fan goes out/ brakes in flowering it would back out through there.

 

[jameswri85]

UPDATE - James' First Indoor Soil Grow From Clones

Well everything seems to be going good still. The Violets have new growth, and the seedling is growing better than anything else. The dutch dragons stopped growing and lower leaves feel dry. My two Love Lettuces don't seem to be doing to great though, leaves are droopy and the stems appear to be a little weaker.

I was thinking it might be overwatering as they are all limp and the last time i watered the bucket was light but the top wasn't really crusty yet.

The dutch dragons seem healthy still just not growing now. They are also the only 3 i cant tell sex on yet (other than the seedling). It looks like female as it goes pointy but no pistils yet. If any more experienced growers can tell that would be great!

I started LST on another Violet this morning and its starting to grow upward again already

I'm still deciding which ones I want to top or FIM, hopefully going to try that sometime this week.

Another one of my Violets had a twisted new growth and i don't have a guess at why, i don't think its a huge deal but would like to know why for knowledge sake.

Alicia seems to be doing great, leaves are getting big with lots of growth while keeping her nodes nice and tight!

The future clones (don't know an actual name for them) have some nice looking leaves as well

My two favorite leaves are these 8 pointed ones though

could this possibly continue to grow into 9 pointers? They started off as 7 points then the 8th just popped up one night.

I also lowered my light from 18" down to 12" and haven't noticed any heat stress yet (the dry lower leaves of the dutch dragons were like that before dropping the light)

I was also wondering if there is anyway to know for sure if these clones were taken during flowering as 9 of them had very prominent pistils when I got them, and that may explain why they are taking longer to grow is because they are trying to revert back to veg. Or am I just being impatient as they have grown some just not what I expected? I have read about moving lights up everyday, or is that just in the stretch of flowering?

That's all for now, any help/comments/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[miwa]

good looking plants...look like u got a 9 pointer growing..me too..mine is from seed...just hope its a f...only seen 2...last one i had turned out to be m...it takes a while to re-veg..longer if its a clone from a flowering plant..just have patience...place your hand between plant and light...if light burns back of hand move light up...if no burn light is in right position...good luck on your grow

 

[ImmortalCulti]

Hello ImmortalCultivation and thanks for checking out my journal.

The other day when i accidentally supercropped i thought i was going to have to top that plant and make the clone but i cant until paperwork is finished for me getting a patient (and 12 more plants), and i got lucky that it didnt break through. i just need to make sure the paperwork is all set before i go to flower so i can take clones for my next crop!

I need to decide on which ones im going to top/FIM, the love lettuces look a little spindly and i feel they may not hold the unbalanced multi-tops, the dutch dragons are my top choice but they are already a little taller than i wanted them to be to try it (and one is supercropped now).
I may end up LSTing a couple more Violets and probably FIM/top one or two as well.

As for my little wormies, i just bought 2 right before my last watering to give them a try. They are suppose to change from darker to lighter in color as the water dries out of the Terracotta. so far i have not noticed a change in color and when i first soaked them before use it seemed like a subtle difference to me. if nothing else they make a nice little pet for my lady. Personally so far i like just picking up the bucket and feeling the weight, seems to be more accurate then the wormie to me.

The soil im using came with dolomite in it and balances it to 7. i wanted to try to get down to the 6.5 area but im not sure if the built in dolomite would just bump it back to 7. i havent really done a flush as they were not getting nutes after they were made into clones and i figured this would end up over-watering them. i was also thinking a magnesium deficiency may have been an issue because on one of the dutch dragons i had interveinal yellowing but that went away after i fed her.

for you for help and good luck with your new grow, hope all goes well!!!

For the love lettece and all the others I would make sure that a fan is always blowing fresh air through circulation, in turn allowing the stock to develop strength.

Also Remember that topping is 2 and FIM is 3 or more.

I agree LST'ing more. Doing so will only benefit for the final stages creating fuller colas and reducing popcorn nuggets.

What type of soil are you using?

I believe dolomite would act as a stabilizer in this situation.

When do you plan on using nutrients?

for the kind words.






StayTrue:.
ImmortalCultivation


Immortal Cultivations' Indoor Coco Garden PK - Strawberry Cough - Lemon Haze & Others

 

[miwa]

whtup James...how is your grow doing...my outside grow has about another month to go ...i guess...don't really know because its from bag seeds...got one plant with 9 bladed leaves...so that tells me both sexes can have 9 bladed leaves...post some updates...

 

[jameswri85]

UPDATE w/ PICS - James' First Indoor Soil Grow From Clones

Sorry for the delay on the update but i have become very busy this past week.

immortal- I have had a fan going 24/7 since day one, and its oscillating so they have always had wind.
As far as soil I am using Pro-Mix for potting and I fed them 1/3 strength nutes in 1/3 of a normal watering to get them used to the nutes a couple weeks ago.
On Sep. 21 I fed them a full watering with full strength nutes and I am still waiting for them to dry out to water/feed again (a couple should be ready today but the majority seems like a few days away still).

miwa- I always assumed more points depended on the strain and overall health of the plant.

I re-arranged my room the other day and was able to create more walking space so I can move around easier and switched my fan to the other side of the room which helped cool the room down to 82 w/ a high of 84 instead of 84 w/ a high of 86! Hopefully within the next 2 weeks I will switch out the 100 CFM fan for a 250 and get my temps under 80 at least (I'm sure the high temps aren't helping them grow any).

I also made a reflector for my light, and that helped get them a bunch more lumen!!

Alicia is still going pretty good, she developed another node with both leaves 9 points but she is growing a little slower now that i put her in her new home. Soon I will be upgrading to (2) 300W CFLs in there which should be enough light.

and if not I have a ballast installed in the top portion for a 100W MH, I would just have to find a way to get the heat out.

The 2 Violets that i have LSTed so far seem to finally be getting some growth, another inch or 2 and I should be able to pin them down again!

That's it for now, if i have time later I'm going to make a post about some problems/concerns I am having. Thank you all for your input!

 

[ImmortalCulti]

Lookin good, Lookin good!

Always more than welcome to help.

Keep up the good work, like to see that your growing with your garden and

advancing your set-up.





StayTrue:.
ImmortalCultivation

Immortal Cultivations' Indoor Coco Garden PK - Strawberry Cough - Lemon Haze & Others

 

[miwa]

Looks like you are well on your way...good looking plants

 

[jameswri85]

Problems/Concerns W/ PICS - James' First Indoor Soil Grow From Clones

And now for the problems:

It seems in the past day or so a few of my ladies have taken a slight turn for the worse.

I am having a problem with my love lettuces leaves still tacoing under:

I thought it was over-watering but it has been drying out for a week and still hasn't improved any. It still has a few more days to dry out before being ready for a watering again. On top of that some of the lower leaves are yellowing/browning now.

My dutch dragons are also kind of weak looking and starting to yellow on some of the lower leaves.

I am also wondering if one of my violets might have been mislabeled. One of them seems to be growing more than the others and is also growing differently (more similar to the love lettuce).

on the left is love lettuce the right violet and the middle the one im questioning. The leaves seem more like a violet but the way the branches are growing out are like the LL, whereas the Violets branches seem to grow more upward like this one:

If anyone might know if my ladies clearly having preflowers and pistils already is a sign that they were taken in flowering. I know they would then have to revert and take longer to start growing, im just trying to figure out if that is something going on.

I wanted to make sure that I have it in my head correctly before I try practicing it, but for FIMing is it cutting off 90% of that new growth coming in and bowl shaping the 10% that stays? With topping you cut the actual meristem though, right?

I believe I am also seeing the beginning of a fungus gnat infestation. Which according to Ed Rosenthals growers handbook I just picked up it says to cover the dirt with cardboard, cloth, or layer of sand to prevent the possibility of reproducing. Will that take care of them completely or will I need to take further actions then that?

That should be all thats wrong right now, I appreciate any help you may offer. I mainly want to get the droopy, yellowing leaf problems taken care of before it gets any worse.

 

[miwa]

aren't your plants too young for full strength nutes...you might check your ph...water and soil..

 

[Icemud]

Heyy..sorrry your plants are acting a lil droopy.....these are some things you can look into...

First off...some of your pots/containers are not black and seem to be opaque or sort of see thru...not good!!! your roots dont like light and this may possibly killing them or harming them...I would definitely either repot or get some kind of cover or tape around those orange containers....roots + light = not good...

Secondly I would buy a moisture meter if you don't already have one..there like 10$ at home depot and will help you determine when to water....even when my soil at 2-3" deep is completely dry to touch, the lower 1/3 of the pot is still heavily saturated with water....you may still be overwatering??? possibly?

I also would check your soil runoff ph..... to do this there is plenty of info on this site but in general you use RO or distilled water....plain....measure the ph before you water..... water your plants good so you get a good amount of run off water...then take a ph reading of the run-off.....this will tell you approximatlyy where your soil stands... So for instance...if you water with distilled water which generally is a ph7 and the runoff measures... 7.5ph...then you know your soil is too high....

Are you using CO2? if you are giving your plants additional co2 you may be giving them too much...not sure if your using this or not...

You could always give your plants a good flush with distilled water next feeding....just water 3x as much water thru as your soil and it should leech any nutrient overloads that may be causing this...??

These are my 2 pennies...hope it helps

 

[jameswri85]

miwa- i dont think they are too young. they seemed to have a nice healthy root system when i replanted them right after getting them. I waited over 2 weeks to let them root in before giving them full nutes. I also haven't seen signs of over-fert (browning/curling from ends). PH is 7, i want it lower but not sure the best way with dolomite lime in the pro-mix. I'm hopefully going to go get some PH down soon and see if that works.

icemud- i wasn't even thinking about the orange, i will get those covered (i already replanted once and don't want to stress them out with it again).

I have had a moisture meter from day 1 and constantly check it. I usually water when it gets into the dry section(3), should I wait until it bottoms down to 1?

Unfortunately all i have right now is a soil Ph tester that is reading 7. The water tester i had for hydro broke.

i dont have a real CO2 setup, just a milk jug with a packet of yeast, cup of sugar, and H2O.

I was able to figure out the dutch dragons problem was a potassium def. Hopefully they will dry out in the next couple days so i can give them some food.