PH up/down - How to use?

How much you need is going to vary (and potentially vary a lot) with your local water. The water where I live is super soft (essentially pure H2O). I only need 1/2 milliliter of pH down in 2.5 gallons to go from pH 7 to 6. I'd suggest starting with .25 or .5 ml, give it some time to mix, and recheck pH. Also, be aware that some water will drift back to the old pH so will need to be recorrected.

I haven't needed or used pH Up, but I have read that it's "less powerful" than pH Down (i.e. that you need more milliliters of Up to move one pH unit than it does pH Down). I don't know if that's true, but it's from a good source, so I pass it along.

As for the chemistry, pH down is just an acid (phosphoric acid). When you add it, it acidifies the medium and thus drives the pH Down. It's as simple as that. And your plants like the phosphorous it contains. :) Similarly, pH up is just a base (potassium carbonate) that drives the pH the other way.

I have been told that if you overcorrect in on direction (like adding too much pH Down), you shouldn't compensate with the other solution (pH Up in this case), but instead you should just throw away the solution and start over. But from a purely acid/base, down/up perspective, I don't see any reason why you couldn't neutralize one with the other. They're not going to make anything bad when they react. (Essentially you'd just end up with a little more potassium and phosphorous nutrients.) But again, that advice not to use one to correct the other is from a guru so maybe there's something to it. Just FYI.

This is really pretty simple stuff. Just take your time, take notes, and be meticulous and you should have no trouble. You should probably also not get either Up or Down in your eyes, on your skin, clothes, furniture, pets, etc, as both are going to be corrosive. If you spill, wipe up immediately with lots of water to dilute it.

I hope something in all that blathering helps.
Good luck and have fun,
Sci
 
Sci you are the man :) Cheers mate very helpful

Scientific said:
How much you need is going to vary (and potentially vary a lot) with your local water. The water here is super soft (essentially pure H2O). I only need 1/2 milliliter in 2.5 gallons of pH down to go from 7 to 6. I'd suggest starting with .25 or .5 ml, give it some time to mix, and recheck pH. Also, be aware that some water will drift back to the old pH so will need to be recorrected.

I haven't needed or used pH Up, but I have read that it's "less powerful" than pH Down (i.e. that you need more milliliters of Up to move one pH unit than it does pH Down). I don't know if that's true, but it's from a good source, so I pass it along.

As for the chemistry, pH down is just an acid (phosphoric acid). When you add it, it acidifies the medium and thus drives the pH Down. It's as simple as that. And your plants like the phosphorous it contains. :) Similarly, pH up is just a base (potassium carbonate) that drives the pH the other way.

I have been told that if you overcorrect in on direction (like too much pH Down), you shouldn't compensate with the other solution (pH Up in this case), but instead you should just throw away the solution and start over. But from a purely acid/base, down/up perspective, I don't see any reason why you couldn't neutralize one with the other. They're not going to make anything bad when they react. (Essentially you'd just end up with a little more potassium and phosphorous nutrients.)

This is pretty simple stuff. Just take your time, take notes, and be meticulous and you should have no trouble.

I hope something in all that blathering helps.
Good luck and have fun,
Sci
Click to expand...
 
As said- the amount needed varies. I have now idea why they listed an amount in ml/litre- since there is actually no way to prejudge what amount you'll need to balance whatever it is that you're balancing.
In general - the more concentrated/higher ppm/'thicker' the solution- the more ph plus or ph minus it will take to shift the solution. It's actually more complicated than that, but in a general sense this concept works.

So if you're mixing a strong nutrient solution - you'll need more ph+ or ph- to shift it. The weaker the solution- the less ph+/- you'll need to shift it, and, conversely, the less effect it will have on your growing medium (ie-the less important it is to ph balance it)

If you're trying to balance rainwater or RO water- you'll need almost none. Because rainwater/RO is basically pure -or close to it.
My rainwater is usually a ph of 5.6, which sounds quite acidic. But add a couple drops of ph+ to a five gallon bucket of rainwater and you'll see a big shift. Now imagine it the other way around. The ph of that rainwater is going to be easily shifted by the ph of your soil or whatever else you're growing in.
I haven't bothered to balance my ph 5.6 rainwater in about five years. There is no need to.

So... in a practical sense, you're going to have get a feel for how much ph plus or minus you need.
You need a good meter which is calibrated and can be trusted.
Add a few drops at a time and keep stirring the solution. Careful not to bash your meter and break it, or drown it if it's not submersible.
Stirring the water helps a lot to increase the speed of the mixing, and the speed of your meter's readout.
When you're within about .5 of your final destination- stop adding drops and see what develops.

I agree that if you overshoot it's no problem to add the opposing base/acid. Total amount of ph+/ph- will be very small compared to the total amount of nutrient added. Just go slow and you won't need to do too much pissing around.

It's best to let the solution sit for at least a half hour before trusting your reading. A few hours, or overnight, is better if you have time. But you'll get a sense of how your meter performs after you mess with it for a while.
 
Hey Joey are you growing in Soil or in Coco or doinga Hydro setup?

Cause the PH level is different amount for soil and Coco or Hydro setup.

Your main question is how much8 PH up or Down do you use, well that all depends on what medium your growing in.

Coco and Hydro both PH level best is 5.5 to 6.0 but the best is 5.8 so PH your water after nutes are added to that range.

If in Soil it will be a range of 6.0 to 6.5 best being around 6.2 .. so PH your water after nutes added around that range.

Start with a very low amount say half a Tea Spoon or .25ml to adjust it...

Most ppl don't know this but after you adjust the PH let the PH'd water with nutes in it sit for 10 min and check PH again.

If it is Up bring it down and if iit is Down bring it up again... then let sit again 10 min.

If all is good then water ur plants...
 
XobeMan said:
Hey Joey are you growing in Soil or in Coco or doinga Hydro setup?

Cause the PH level is different amount for soil and Coco or Hydro setup.

Your main question is how much8 PH up or Down do you use, well that all depends on what medium your growing in.

Coco and Hydro both PH level best is 5.5 to 6.0 but the best is 5.8 so PH your water after nutes are added to that range.

If in Soil it will be a range of 6.0 to 6.5 best being around 6.2 .. so PH your water after nutes added around that range.

Start with a very low amount say half a Tea Spoon or .25ml to adjust it...

Most ppl don't know this but after you adjust the PH let the PH'd water with nutes in it sit for 10 min and check PH again.

If it is Up bring it down and if iit is Down bring it up again... then let sit again 10 min.

If all is good then water ur plants...
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, i didn't know to let the mixture sit for 10 min
 
XobeMan said:
Hey Joey are you growing in Soil or in Coco or doinga Hydro setup?

Cause the PH level is different amount for soil and Coco or Hydro setup.

Your main question is how much8 PH up or Down do you use, well that all depends on what medium your growing in.

Coco and Hydro both PH level best is 5.5 to 6.0 but the best is 5.8 so PH your water after nutes are added to that range.

If in Soil it will be a range of 6.0 to 6.5 best being around 6.2 .. so PH your water after nutes added around that range.

Start with a very low amount say half a Tea Spoon or .25ml to adjust it...

Most ppl don't know this but after you adjust the PH let the PH'd water with nutes in it sit for 10 min and check PH again.

If it is Up bring it down and if iit is Down bring it up again... then let sit again 10 min.

If all is good then water ur plants...
Click to expand...

Organic soil is what I'm going with first time round. Thanks for the info bud much appreciated!
 
Weaselcracker said:
if you're mixing a strong nutrient solution - you'll need more ph+ or ph- to shift it. The weaker the solution- the less ph+/- you'll need to shift it, and, conversely, the less effect it will have on your growing medium (ie-the less important it is to ph balance it)
Click to expand...

Interesting. Noted. :)
 
Scientific said:
How much you need is going to vary (and potentially vary a lot) with your local water. The water where I live is super soft (essentially pure H2O). I only need 1/2 milliliter of pH down in 2.5 gallons to go from pH 7 to 6. I'd suggest starting with .25 or .5 ml, give it some time to mix, and recheck pH. Also, be aware that some water will drift back to the old pH so will need to be recorrected.

I haven't needed or used pH Up, but I have read that it's "less powerful" than pH Down (i.e. that you need more milliliters of Up to move one pH unit than it does pH Down). I don't know if that's true, but it's from a good source, so I pass it along.

As for the chemistry, pH down is just an acid (phosphoric acid). When you add it, it acidifies the medium and thus drives the pH Down. It's as simple as that. And your plants like the phosphorous it contains. :) Similarly, pH up is just a base (potassium carbonate) that drives the pH the other way.

I have been told that if you overcorrect in on direction (like adding too much pH Down), you shouldn't compensate with the other solution (pH Up in this case), but instead you should just throw away the solution and start over. But from a purely acid/base, down/up perspective, I don't see any reason why you couldn't neutralize one with the other. They're not going to make anything bad when they react. (Essentially you'd just end up with a little more potassium and phosphorous nutrients.) But again, that advice not to use one to correct the other is from a guru so maybe there's something to it. Just FYI.

This is really pretty simple stuff. Just take your time, take notes, and be meticulous and you should have no trouble. You should probably also not get either Up or Down in your eyes, on your skin, clothes, furniture, pets, etc, as both are going to be corrosive. If you spill, wipe up immediately with lots of water to dilute it.

I hope something in all that blathering helps.
Good luck and have fun,
Sci
Click to expand...

Weaselcracker said:
As said- the amount needed varies. I have now idea why they listed an amount in ml/litre- since there is actually no way to prejudge what amount you'll need to balance whatever it is that you're balancing.
In general - the more concentrated/higher ppm/'thicker' the solution- the more ph plus or ph minus it will take to shift the solution. It's actually more complicated than that, but in a general sense this concept works.

So if you're mixing a strong nutrient solution - you'll need more ph+ or ph- to shift it. The weaker the solution- the less ph+/- you'll need to shift it, and, conversely, the less effect it will have on your growing medium (ie-the less important it is to ph balance it)

If you're trying to balance rainwater or RO water- you'll need almost none. Because rainwater/RO is basically pure -or close to it.
My rainwater is usually a ph of 5.6, which sounds quite acidic. But add a couple drops of ph+ to a five gallon bucket of rainwater and you'll see a big shift. Now imagine it the other way around. The ph of that rainwater is going to be easily shifted by the ph of your soil or whatever else you're growing in.
I haven't bothered to balance my ph 5.6 rainwater in about five years. There is no need to.

So... in a practical sense, you're going to have get a feel for how much ph plus or minus you need.
You need a good meter which is calibrated and can be trusted.
Add a few drops at a time and keep stirring the solution. Careful not to bash your meter and break it, or drown it if it's not submersible.
Stirring the water helps a lot to increase the speed of the mixing, and the speed of your meter's readout.
When you're within about .5 of your final destination- stop adding drops and see what develops.

I agree that if you overshoot it's no problem to add the opposing base/acid. Total amount of ph+/ph- will be very small compared to the total amount of nutrient added. Just go slow and you won't need to do too much pissing around.

It's best to let the solution sit for at least a half hour before trusting your reading. A few hours, or overnight, is better if you have time. But you'll get a sense of how your meter performs after you mess with it for a while.
Click to expand...

I think it's recommended to avoid salt buildups. I've tested PPM before and after pH'ing and it does kick it up by a significant amount. By significant I mean not negligible. 400 PPM mix goes to a 500 PPM if there's a little back and forth between adding Up and Down.
 
Hmmm... maybe it depends what you're using. I mainly use Botanicare nutes and they are very acidic. But even a strong mix of 1100- 1200 ppm only takes about 30ppm of the ph+ I use. It's basically negligible.
Whereas GH nutes take very little Ph+ by comparison. Last time I used them I was overshooting in both directions.
I only use ph minus if I overshoot. I've had the same bottle for ten years.
 
Weaselcracker said:
Hmmm... maybe it depends what you're using. I mainly use Botanicare nutes and they are very acidic. But even a strong mix of 1100- 1200 ppm only takes about 30ppm of the ph+ I use. It's basically negligible.
Whereas GH nutes take very little Ph+ by comparison. Last time I used them I was overshooting in both directions.
I only use ph minus if I overshoot. I've had the same bottle for ten years.
Click to expand...

Yeah I hardly ever have to use the Ph+. Actually sometimes it makes more sense to use something like a silica supplement to up the Ph. At least then the increased ppm are being useful.
 
Weaselcracker said:
As said- the amount needed varies. I have now idea why they listed an amount in ml/litre- since there is actually no way to prejudge what amount you'll need to balance whatever it is that you're balancing.
In general - the more concentrated/higher ppm/'thicker' the solution- the more ph plus or ph minus it will take to shift the solution. It's actually more complicated than that, but in a general sense this concept works.

So if you're mixing a strong nutrient solution - you'll need more ph+ or ph- to shift it. The weaker the solution- the less ph+/- you'll need to shift it, and, conversely, the less effect it will have on your growing medium (ie-the less important it is to ph balance it)

If you're trying to balance rainwater or RO water- you'll need almost none. Because rainwater/RO is basically pure -or close to it.
My rainwater is usually a ph of 5.6, which sounds quite acidic. But add a couple drops of ph+ to a five gallon bucket of rainwater and you'll see a big shift. Now imagine it the other way around. The ph of that rainwater is going to be easily shifted by the ph of your soil or whatever else you're growing in.
I haven't bothered to balance my ph 5.6 rainwater in about five years. There is no need to.

So... in a practical sense, you're going to have get a feel for how much ph plus or minus you need.
You need a good meter which is calibrated and can be trusted.
Add a few drops at a time and keep stirring the solution. Careful not to bash your meter and break it, or drown it if it's not submersible.
Stirring the water helps a lot to increase the speed of the mixing, and the speed of your meter's readout.
When you're within about .5 of your final destination- stop adding drops and see what develops.

I agree that if you overshoot it's no problem to add the opposing base/acid. Total amount of ph+/ph- will be very small compared to the total amount of nutrient added. Just go slow and you won't need to do too much pissing around.

It's best to let the solution sit for at least a half hour before trusting your reading. A few hours, or overnight, is better if you have time. But you'll get a sense of how your meter performs after you mess with it for a while.
Click to expand...

This. Exactly my experience. Patience is the word. It is very easy to over do one or the other. Ive thrown mixes away a couple times when i was high and mixing a rez and my ph ended up at like 3 or 12 lol but ive seen no harm from correcting a slight overcompensation of ph one way or the other.
And i also concur on the stronger the solution the more up or down is needed. RO needs drops and full flower solutions needs mls.
Ive also broken a few bulbs on ph meters. That shite gets expensive. This hobby has taught me that patience is definitely a virtue.
 

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