Please help recommend a suitable LED

[jaymu86]

I really think it all depends wat company were talking about because my cobs might not be equal to the next guys cobs even if the cob itself is the same but if that driver is inefficient and how the cob is driven so that's why I say know what your buying cause lots of ppl buying super subpar equipment

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[jaymu86]

Good answer, I agree. I look forward to seeing what you bleeding edge guys do with your new tech.
I am pleasantly surprised what my cheap Mars and eshine lights do though. Some day when they need replacing I will learn what with based on guys like you doing the real research. Thanks. I am also curios what Mars has to say about the difference
Between thier normal lights and _fairly_expensive pro lights, I asked in the Mars discussion thread. Also I have had zero problems with my Mars led or my almost as cheap eshine led so far.

I really like their reflector series and the mars2 not pushed on the pro tho I just can't do they blurple any more I like the natural spectrum and plants responded very much like outside and that's when I knew I was onto something good but all in all they all have disadvantages so what works for me might not work for u

Gram per watt is a measurement that is practically worthless in comparing one grower to another. Too many variables effect gram/watt for it to mean anything. For instance, a guy growing hydro is going to yield typically about 2x more than a grower using organic soil (as I do). Synthetic nutrients typically will also yield higher than organic nutrients in smaller pots because the sythetics are available for the plant, organics have to be broken down by microbes.

Or another example... a grower could be growing a high yielding strain like a blue dream and another grower growing a low yielding strain like a GSC or bubba kush... which also will drastically effect the gram/watt. So they can't be compared...

Another example is one grower could be using supplemental co2, in a perfectly automated environment with ideal humidity and temp, and another grower could be using a grow tent with no environmental controls (such as my grow) other than extraction fans where ideal temps are mostly reliant on the outside environment. this will cause a large difference in yield as well.

in other words, gram per watt is nothing more than a pretty much meaningless "bragging" measurement that has no real world relation, unless it was a absolute controlled labratory grade side by side, where all environmental, genetic and nutrient factors were identical, and only the lights were different.

For my grow, I keep record of gram per watt and total harvest weight because the environment from grow to grow doesn't change much, nutrients are pretty much the same, strains pretty much stay the same, so the light is the sole factor that changes yield so the measurement of gram/watt is a helpful indicator of my success per grow, but still is not 100% accurate. It can be used to track trends as I have seen from HID being low gram/watt, moving to "economy" LED which also was a low gram per watt, and then moved to "premium LED panels" which raised my gram/watt about 20% or more... so after tracking data for over 12 grows, There is an upward trend of better gram/watt and total yield with better quality LED chips... but my results, can't be compared to other growers for the reasons above.


Another thing with gram/watt... typically with lower wattages you will see a higher gram per watt, but this also doesn't related to the quality of the overall product, as when using less wattage in comparison to higher wattage, low wattage will generally produce sub par quality, airy buds and less trichomes than higher wattage grows which result in denser buds, higher trichome counts and a lower gram per watt.

I supplied "real world" data to break down the price comparison of investing in cheap economy LED's vs Premium LED's in my garden, and the numbers make sense, I mean if you could spend more up front, but make $2000 more a year, why wouldn't you?

Manufacture claims, especially in the horticulture LED sector are just that, claims, and very very few show proof. Even more so many of these companies don't understand their products fully let alone understanding horticulture lighting or plant light reactions. This is why I indulged in testing different brands and extensively researching plant lighting, because I wanted the truth and very few manufactures are going to tell the truth when it means reducing their sales. And most of them are actually clueless about plant lighting and plant reaction in general... Its sad that this is the reality we deal with as growers, and its fortunate that we have many experienced growers and testers here at 420 so that we can all collaboratively learn.


So with all that being said, .79 grams/watt may not be good in other growers eyes but for my personal garden, .79 grams per watt is actually very good and one of the best G/watts I have gotten. Again, this number can't be compared to anything else but my garden. Also there is another forum that tracks growers gram/watt and there are very few growers out of hundreds of results recorded that have even achieved 1.5G/watt. Most are less than 1g/watt.

Cheers though, I hope I can help you learn as my goal here is to educate people as I have learned from other growers here. Plant lighting is my specialty so I'm very confident on the info I share, as its been researched extensively for many years now.


This is why I suggest the OP for going with HPS, because for the cost of a HPS system, and the results, it would be his best option within his budget. LED is much more expensive, mainly because the way the light is projected from the LED chips. Generally most horticulture professionals choose their lighting based on PPFD or the PAR readings across the entire canopy, LED's have a common problem with projecting very bright in the center under the panel, but the intensity drops significantly outside the area directly under the light. This is why LED typically to cover a 4x4 tent properly, requires smaller wattage LED lights, but more quantity of them. for LED its all about the actual surface area of the light fixtures themselves, because the chips project like mini spotlights. HPS however is more like a flood light and projects a much more even canopy illumination, where a grower can get away with just 1 light in a 4x4 and still get even coverage. This is why I suggested HPS to the OP. For $500 he could get a HPS system that would not only meet the PPFD requirements of cannabis, but also for very cheaply. LED also could do well for the OP, but it would be much more costly up front.

The OP mentioned heat is the main reason that he wants to look at LED but really, HPS and LED at the same wattage will produce the same heat. LED's aren't magically cooler, even though most manufactures claim they are. LED's are more efficient at producing PAR light, than HPS, however heat load is dependant on wattage draw, so a 400w LED, 400w HPS, or 400w worth of CFL's will produce the same heat in the environment. The misconception comes to play because with LED, being that they produce light more efficenly, less wattage can be used for similar results, so generally you can save about 20% energy with LED vs HID, and then you would also have 20% less heat. The issue however with LED is there is no way to evacuate the heat out of the grow area like a HPS with an air cooled hood and remote mounted ballast, therefore LED actually can be hotter depending on your environment when compared to HPS with air cooled hoods at the same wattage due to the HID having a way to evacuate the heat.

anyhow, hope you may have picked up a few new things from my post and sorry for the OP for getting off topic. I just want to help correct misconceptions as they are quite common due to misleading claims in the lighting industry.


Also, as far as yield, my 1000w HID setup I used to run still to this day after a good 12 or more grows still has produced the highest yield for me, over LED. The LED has come close in yield, but HPS still has produced more. The quality of LED bud is much much better that HPS. Now I haven't run 1000w of LED in the same grow area, the most i have used is 750w of LED which produced about 475g where 1000w of HPS produced 574g... gram per watt of hid was .57g/w where led was .63g/watt in my garden and grow environment. Best Gram per watt I got was .81grams/watt using only 340w of LED but only yielded 327grams. MarsII produced the same gram/watt as HID at .57 grams per watt, however was only 308g of final product. The LED's I used with premium chips all produced higher Grams per watt between .65 to .81/gram/watt, and at the same time produced higher total yield than the Mars II.

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[Mars Hydro]

Well,light is not the only factors to affect the cannabis grow,every seeds is unique,they will affect the yield.
Even the same growing condition and grow method will affect it.
We can not only compare the yield by the watts of the lights.

Here are some real world examples from my garden:


3x mars II, 540w total draw, 310g or .57grams/watt.

2x (other sponsor with cree and osram chips) 494w total draw, 391g or .79 grams per watt.

Now I harvest about 4x per year with my perpetual grow. So just in harvest weight lost by using "economy" panels, I have lost 81g per harvest, 81x4 or 324g which is 11oz roughly lost per year with economy panels vs premium panels

... so just in loss of harvest weight, 11oz at approx $200 per oz, the LED's using premium chips gained me an extra $2200 worth of final product over the "economy option per year"

Now to add to it, the difference in power useage was about 46w, which for 1 year costs an extra $48 per year to run the "economy panels" over the premium cree/osram panels. Basically saying the "economy panels cost more to run, and produce 3oz less per harvest as well"

So in total using better panels gained me approx $2250 over using economy panels.

Now lets look at initial cost:

3x mars II at current price approx $600

2x (other sponsor with cree/osram chips) @895 each cost $1800

Difference $1200 in initial cost.


So total lost using economy panels, $2250.
Total difference in purchase price $1200

Benefit of buying better panels annually $1000...for first year due to subtracting purchase cost, following year gain with premium panels would be approx $2250 per year.

For me I would rather pay more for premium LED panels with good quality chips then lose $2200 per year using the economy option. And that doesn't even take into account lumen loss on cheap LED chips per year, which actually will drive the yield down even lower.

 

[Viduus]

Ive had MH/HPS, 400 & 600W before, was ok.

Currently doing a grow with 6 plants of various strains. 5 autos, and one "normal" using 1 300w (approx 150W draw) full spectrum LED, and 1 400w COB (with IR & UV, approx 205W draw) in a 1x1mtr (sry, situated in Europe so I keep to my measures). I had my doubts it would be enough, but personally Ive never seen my plants grow as well.
Doesnt generate as much heat as MH and HPS, but will still need ventilation as the COB generates some heat, and enough to push it beyond those recommended temps, but clearly not close to what the other lamps generate.

Both lamps I use manufactured in China, the normal LED bought in Sweden, & bought the COB for 189$ (DHL included) trough AliExpress, and it meets the expectations and more. Got it to Sweden in under a week.

This to give you an idea on what works for me at least in a small grow tent.

Obviously I grow exclusively for myself for medical purposes (PTSD), and for that purpose the LED seems to be an excellent choice imo.

 

[dallas1305]

Sara,

After such a long time researching and pondering i made the decision of getting 2 reflector 96s and also persuaded my mate to get the same. We ordered a total of 4 together to save money.
I just checked my two and im so dissapointed and embarrassed, one of mine came broken, one of the fans not working, looks like its catching on its own broken frame! You can check my delivery, it arrived today so it hasnt even been used. My plants are already about 10 inches and i was desperate to get them under the lights. Im really hoping the ones my mate had are working fone.
Now what am i to do with this broken light and how do i get my girls under the desired light asap?

Look forward to hearing from you
Thanks
D

Well,light is not the only factors to affect the cannabis grow,every seeds is unique,they will affect the yield.
Even the same growing condition and grow method will affect it.
We can not only compare the yield by the watts of the lights.

 

[OttawaGreen]

She's in China so likely won't answer you for another few hours until she wakes up.

 

[OttawaGreen]

eshine is selling off existing stock of their 3G diamond series. Contact them and see what models are left for pricing. They are good lights and almost as cheap as Mars. Mine have been trouble free for two years.
Details on the comparison:
Platinum LED VS Eshine LED - YouTube

 

[Mars Hydro]

Hi dallas,i'm sorry to hear that.I think it must damaged by careless deliver,We have return and warranty policy,you can send email to sales18@lgledsolutions.com ,the email include your order NO and your name,i will confirm with my colleague.Please do not worry,we will solve this problem for you as soon as possible.

Sara,

After such a long time researching and pondering i made the decision of getting 2 reflector 96s and also persuaded my mate to get the same. We ordered a total of 4 together to save money.
I just checked my two and im so dissapointed and embarrassed, one of mine came broken, one of the fans not working, looks like its catching on its own broken frame! You can check my delivery, it arrived today so it hasnt even been used. My plants are already about 10 inches and i was desperate to get them under the lights. Im really hoping the ones my mate had are working fone.
Now what am i to do with this broken light and how do i get my girls under the desired light asap?

Look forward to hearing from you
Thanks
D

 

[Mars Hydro]

I'm here now,hah

She's in China so likely won't answer you for another few hours until she wakes up.

 

[OlderGrower]

Hi Dallas sounds like you have a nice set up, Did you check out the LED form there some LED masters over there that can help you out and its true i have heard the Mars 1200w put out some heat more then others LED i was at the Lift expo in Toronto man they had some sweet LED set up for cheap but i held off and got a purge vac to make shatter and crumble

I have the MarsII 900 and have no issues with heat.

I'm only getting that as my plants weren't that big but to give u idea I pulled over 170g off of 150w light without cobs but if I was to get my stuff right trust I could pull a lot more but if at 3oz a plant and 9 plants that's 27oz u show me a Mars2 400w that can cover a 4x4 with 4-5" plants mars can't penetrate that deep

Sent from my HTC Desire Eye using 420

does your cob use the same watts at the wall as a Mars II 400? if not your comparing apples with oranges.

Here are some real world examples from my garden:


3x mars II, 540w total draw, 310g or .57grams/watt.

2x (other sponsor with cree and osram chips) 494w total draw, 391g or .79 grams per watt.

Now I harvest about 4x per year with my perpetual grow. So just in harvest weight lost by using "economy" panels, I have lost 81g per harvest, 81x4 or 324g which is 11oz roughly lost per year with economy panels vs premium panels

... so just in loss of harvest weight, 11oz at approx $200 per oz, the LED's using premium chips gained me an extra $2200 worth of final product over the "economy option per year"

Now to add to it, the difference in power useage was about 46w, which for 1 year costs an extra $48 per year to run the "economy panels" over the premium cree/osram panels. Basically saying the "economy panels cost more to run, and produce 3oz less per harvest as well"

So in total using better panels gained me approx $2250 over using economy panels.

Now lets look at initial cost:

3x mars II at current price approx $600

2x (other sponsor with cree/osram chips) @895 each cost $1800

Difference $1200 in initial cost.


So total lost using economy panels, $2250.
Total difference in purchase price $1200

Benefit of buying better panels annually $1000...for first year due to subtracting purchase cost, following year gain with premium panels would be approx $2250 per year.

For me I would rather pay more for premium LED panels with good quality chips then lose $2200 per year using the economy option. And that doesn't even take into account lumen loss on cheap LED chips per year, which actually will drive the yield down even lower.

That sounds like some of that republican fuzzy math.. explain to me how I loose anything when I give what I grow away for free? While you may find it cheaper to buy a more expensive light to me, it is just a more expensive light that does nothing special for me.
As for you growing more with your 1000 watt HPS verses your LED. Well all I can say to that is DUH.. you are burning 1000 watts at the wall verses 750 watts at the wall, gee I wonder why LEDS are not producing more. Apples and oranges my friend... buy 250 more watts of LED then if your still growing more with the HPS that may mean something.
Now let me do the math for you in my fuzzy math..
Mars II 900 $350 Lumigrow pro 325 $750 11 Spectrum free as a gift.... total output $1100
look on a friends face when I hand them close to a 1/2 pound of meds for free when their gets stolen = Priceless

 

[Icemud]

deleted

 

[jaymu86]

I have the MarsII 900 and have no issues with heat.

does your cob use the same watts at the wall as a Mars II 400? if not your comparing apples with oranges.


That sounds like some of that republican fuzzy math.. explain to me how I loose anything when I give what I grow away for free? While you may find it cheaper to buy a more expensive light to me, it is just a more expensive light that does nothing special for me.
As for you growing more with your 1000 watt HPS verses your LED. Well all I can say to that is DUH.. you are burning 1000 watts at the wall verses 750 watts at the wall, gee I wonder why LEDS are not producing more. Apples and oranges my friend... buy 250 more watts of LED then if your still growing more with the HPS that may mean something.
Now let me do the math for you in my fuzzy math..
Mars II 900 $350 Lumigrow pro 325 $750 11 Spectrum free as a gift.... total output $1100
look on a friends face when I hand them close to a 1/2 pound of meds for free when their gets stolen = Priceless

I meant 2 mars2 400w that match my cobs yes I had both setups except when I had the mars I also had a 256w all red led Sara sent me and still couldn't touch the penetration

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[WillysMom]

Maybe someone can answer my grow light questions. I bought 2 300 W LEDs on Amazon. They did GREAT in the veg stage, and now I have 4 photo plants in flowering so we will see what happens. So I bought a third light and now I started 4 autos and I'm nervous all over again! Do you think these lights can handle the autos? Here's the link to what I bought!

It's not a big brand name, and I'm not technical by any means, but I just want to know if I should return the latest light (if it's a dud @ flowering) and get a proper flowering light...Please help if you know.

 

[jaymu86]

Maybe someone can answer my grow light questions. I bought 2 300 W LEDs l on Amazon. They did GREAT in the veg stage, and now I have 4 photo plants in flowering so we will see what happens. So I bought a third light and now I started 4 autos and I'm nervous all over again! Do you think these lights can handle the autos? Here's the link to what I bought!

It's not a big brand name, and I'm not technical by any means, but I just want to know if I should return the latest light (if it's a dud @ flowering) and get a proper flowering light...Please help if you know.

It'll do ok if you can grow like a Jedi master

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[Viduus]

Maybe someone can answer my grow light questions. I bought 2 300 W LEDs on Amazon. They did GREAT in the veg stage, and now I have 4 photo plants in flowering so we will see what happens. So I bought a third light and now I started 4 autos and I'm nervous all over again! Do you think these lights can handle the autos? Here's the link to what I bought!

It's not a big brand name, and I'm not technical by any means, but I just want to know if I should return the latest light (if it's a dud @ flowering) and get a proper flowering light...Please help if you know.

If all 3 are full spectrum Im sure it will do fine.

I have 5 autos, and one reg fem under a 300w (real output approx 105W, 120 angle), and one 400W COB (approx 250W, 90 angle), both 3w LEDs in a 1x1mtr grow tent, and they are now in 2nd week of flowering, all are doing fine. Would they do better under a 1000W HPS? Probably, but they would also do better under any LED with similar watttage.

So dont listen/pay attention to those being utterly negative to LED as they have probably never even seen one of them in use. And clearly not tried growing under one.

Personally Im so positive now doing this first LED grow/experiment Ill invest in another 400W COB for the next grow, and keep it to 4 plants under it to get maximum effect. Positives Ive noticed among others, little to no stretching, no heat stress, and a overall very good development on all of the plants vs MH/HPS Ive used before. That said, if I grew legally and professionally, in a big scale operation I would probably have used MH/HPS. But for my own medicine, where care is given personally to each plant I find LED amazing!

 

[WillysMom]

Thanks Viduus. I'm a new grower and these lights are amazing with veg, but not so sure about flower. I bought a 1200w LED and placed it over my last plant and it went hermie on me within an hour! I didn't trust the light, so I returned to Amazon. The NL's that I have flowering under the 2 300w are slow going, and that's why I'm not sure if I need a stronger flower light. We will see. I have 30 days to return the new light I bought if I feel I need one stronger to get more flower action!

 

[WillysMom]

Hey all, I just bought a new 1200w LED to add to my two 300w LED's. I have 4 plants in 3 gallon pots flowering under them. Do you think that's overkill? Would appreciate any suggestions!

 

[Mars Hydro]

I will not be overkill,if they didn't react good, you can change the hanging distance to your plants

Hey all, I just bought a new 1200w LED to add to my two 300w LED's. I have 4 plants in 3 gallon pots flowering under them. Do you think that's overkill? Would appreciate any suggestions!

 

[WillysMom]

Thanks Smoke Sara...I moved the lights WAY up... don't want to fry them! BTW, I ordered a Mars -Hydro 600 from Amazon and it will be arriving tomorrow! I'm growing some autos (which are a few days old now) and I hope that will make them sing