QB 260w vs Mars Hydro SP 250: What would you get?

[Metal Halide]

Looking good! What size tent?

2.4x1.2 mate. Nothing spesh. The cheapass greenfingers ones cause its already pretty dark outside the tent. Does the job but it aint no mammoth tent

 

[Metal Halide]

ReptiSun 10.0, lol. A little dab will do ya, they sell tube-type fluorescent bulbs in several lengths from 18" to 4' (avoid the CFL types, IMHO), and they're relatively inexpensive. And I've been told that there are stronger UV bulbs available if one wishes to look for them.

I guess what I'm saying is that some UV in the mix is nice, and if the lighting product you were already thinking about purchasing includes it, great. But if not, it's not worth deciding not to buy what could otherwise end up being a decent product over when it's so easy to add your own supplemental UV to the grow room.

That's assuming that you feel that some UV light is important in the first place. There seems to be some debate (readily available in other threads, lol).

"other threads" yep they're a lively bunch.
Ive actually got 2 sunstorm reflectors cheap as secondhand for like 20 bucks each, so i do plan on chucking a 315ner in each of my 2.4s.
I suppose my ultimate setup is the 315 in the middle with probably (and im really leaning towards the QBs now) 2 QBs on each side of it long ways. Thats under 900w per tent. Its overkill but compared to my total MH/HPS, its a drop in the ocean. Peace

 

[Virgin Ground]

UV will degrade most plastics, just something to keep in mind especially if you have plastic corners in your tent or something that would bear weight.

 

[TorturedSoul]

It's pretty hard on skin, too, and eyes. I think that's what caused my liver spots and significant decrease in vision a couple years back (that plus getting older).

 

[Tio Hector]

QB all the way, more options to upgrade as technology advances and price ....

 

[TorturedSoul]

QB all the way, more options to upgrade

You mean changing some of the LEDs, out, like 5% of them to a different frequency and another 10% of them to something else, too? If you can do that with the Samsung-containing products it'd be a feature that (as far as I know) would, at the least, be "a bit of a job" on the M-H SP-150s I have, because they look like they're pretty well sealed in. On the other hand, this does make the products pretty much waterproof, lol, which might come in handy one day.

Other than that, I could replace the power supply in each; realistically, I'd only want to do this if there was a component failure, because I figure adding power past the level that the LEDs are being driven at would both add more heat and markedly decrease the efficiency and useful life of those LEDs. But it looks simple enough a thing to do. Adding some kind of perimeter reflector (like they added when they introduced their TS-1000 (etc.) products) looks like it would be fairly easy. If someone wanted to switch to an all "air-cooled" lighting setup in order to segregate the heat from the grow space in general, it might be a little bit of a task, because of the way that the fins are oriented - there are a lot of short ones instead of a few long ones, so simply boxing them in and placing a fan at one end of the device wouldn't work. However, they seem to be adequate for their intended purpose (radiant cooling), and I'm probably the only person among the 150,000+ members here who think LED grow light products should come with a 6" flange on each end and be otherwise sealed so as to easily connect them to ducted forced-air cooling setups, lol. So that's probably not much of an issue to most.

While there are, in my opinion, a few "clear losers" in the LED grow light marketplace, there isn't really a clear winner at this point. Instead, there are several good products available from several companies, along with the option of building one's own setup from components.

It's a great time to be growing cannabis with LEDs. If you do a little research, you should be able to end up with good lighting that fits your budget. Please support (as and when possible, of course) the sponsoring businesses who pay the bills around here and, in so doing, keep this forum up and free for all of us to use (thanks!). See:

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[Preston9mm]

i already own a qb and a mars ts 1000 and im in love with both and i i need another but totally undecided. Mayby some soft nudging in either way may edge me towards one.
Pro for QB, I can afterpay it here
Pro for Mars, cheaper by about a hundred bucks but cant afterpay it where im from.
So undecided. ahhhh

I'm 100% pleased with my SP250's. Literally, my most vigorous grow, to date.

 

[Metal Halide]

Now im leaning towards the new Mars TSL 2000. It replaces a 500w hps same as the 260w QBs. Its $150 cheaper. Has a core of 4x2. Three of them short ways across a 4x8 would cover the entire tent with zero falloff for 750w. I reckon they could pull 3 pound in a sog with a perfect environment. $1200 for 3. As opposed to $1650 for 3 QBs. The only down-side is not being to upgrade but just like all tech atm, its moving so fast that 100k hours could equate to an entire new line/type of lighting having being released making current tech obsolete. Like smartphones are smart when you buy them but 5 years later they are as dumb as my ex

 

[TorturedSoul]

My ex-wife must have been smart; she left with pretty much everything of value.

Nah, she's still a mouth-breather, lol, I was just paying the disposal fee.

Anyway, I'd take any manufacturer's "replaces ### HPS" and coverage with a grain of salt.

 

[Metal Halide]

It's pretty hard on skin, too, and eyes. I think that's what caused my liver spots and significant decrease in vision a couple years back (that plus getting older).

Im already covered head to toe in a face mask and hat. I look like a hoth storm trooper plus i wear two pairs of sunnies.
Ive already got bad floaters but got eyes checked last year after 2 decades of growing and i got 20/20 vision, no glasses

 

[Metal Halide]

My ex-wife must have been smart; she left with pretty much everything of value.

Nah, she's still a mouth-breather, lol, I was just paying the disposal fee.

Anyway, I'd take any manufacturer's "replaces ### HPS" and coverage with a grain of salt.

very true but mars has always underestimates their output compared to other inexpensive brands like vipaspectra and stuff. Its one of the reasons i love them. I watch an unboxing and every time the par is stronger than Mars claims. Most times they usually replace 250w or 400w and it does slightly better so when they say it replaces 500w. i believe them. These new lights are serious business.

 

[Metal Halide]

Nah, she's still a mouth-breather, lol, I was just paying the disposal fee.

Ahh the perils of love. The only women for me are my ladies these days

 

[TorturedSoul]

Ive already got bad floaters but got eyes checked last year after 2 decades of growing and i got 20/20 vision, no glasses

The floaters suck, but congratulations about the 20/20 vision. 20/120 here (in my good eye). I don't really hunt much any more .

 

[Highbrixbotany2018]

QB for sure. Not even a comparison. The 288, 132 whatever you choose i turn down for most of the grow. You use next to know electricity. Produces minimal heat(even at full power the 288s are 90degress. 132 are 110 at full power.
I’ve made 8. 4 strips builds. 2 cobs. Premade lights if cheaper are just that. Not saying they won’t grow but so will a regular light bulb. The 288 imo needs CO2. You won’t use all the light. Unless you have high ceilings.
I didn’t see a size room for this light.

 

[Metal Halide]

QB for sure. Not even a comparison. The 288, 132 whatever you choose i turn down for most of the grow. You use next to know electricity. Produces minimal heat(even at full power the 288s are 90degress. 132 are 110 at full power.
I’ve made 8. 4 strips builds. 2 cobs. Premade lights if cheaper are just that. Not saying they won’t grow but so will a regular light bulb. The 288 imo needs CO2. You won’t use all the light. Unless you have high ceilings.
I didn’t see a size room for this light.

yeah, that's my issue. I'm a real dumb dumb when it comes to electricity.

 

[Ganjagrandaddy]

OK , Ok i have to chime in here.lol
being a stalwart hps/mh user for 20 years( on and off!) I jumped at this thread as i am always trying to get my head round why LED ?. I know the run cost issue is valid IF you can cover the same area adequately and as penetrative as training and hps can ( Always the catch for me) , so i jumped on to read the thread!!!. As usual , the Klingon and Star trek crew get involved and begin the dilithium crystal powering the quantum core and i am dead in the water and rubbing sticks together for fire !!!. lol It is hard to get my head round the tech chatter at best and i get why there is no " is the best and only one" statements. Now will have to sit it out for pages to get answers.lol

 

[Metal Halide]

OK , Ok i have to chime in here.lol
being a stalwart hps/mh user for 20 years( on and off!) I jumped at this thread as i am always trying to get my head round why LED ?. I know the run cost issue is valid IF you can cover the same area adequately and as penetrative as training and hps can ( Always the catch for me) , so i jumped on to read the thread!!!. As usual , the Klingon and Star trek crew get involved and begin the dilithium crystal powering the quantum core and i am dead in the water and rubbing sticks together for fire !!!. lol It is hard to get my head round the tech chatter at best and i get why there is no " is the best and only one" statements. Now will have to sit it out for pages to get answers.lol

Mars hydro TS 1000 AND HPS!!!!!
Im gonna do a review of it now that ive had it for 2 months in bloom the entire time. its doing well man. Im the same as you aye. Oldschool but the tides have turned my friend. get on the train before it bolts the station and your left holding the power bill cuz
Check out my current journal and follow my journey away from MH/HPS/T5s and CFLs into LED, QBs, CMH and Mars white LEDs

SkywalkerOG & Money Maker SoG week 6 and a half

 

[Mars Hydro]

Now im leaning towards the new Mars TSL 2000. It replaces a 500w hps same as the 260w QBs. Its $150 cheaper. Has a core of 4x2. Three of them short ways across a 4x8 would cover the entire tent with zero falloff for 750w. I reckon they could pull 3 pound in a sog with a perfect environment. $1200 for 3. As opposed to $1650 for 3 QBs. The only down-side is not being to upgrade but just like all tech atm, its moving so fast that 100k hours could equate to an entire new line/type of lighting having being released making current tech obsolete. Like smartphones are smart when you buy them but 5 years later they are as dumb as my ex

Technology moves so fast, some ppl haven't benefit from the old tech, then new tech comes out.

 

[Highbrixbotany2018]

QB are 2017-2019 tech. So for leds the way to buy is based on quality. It needs to tell you the bin the led came from or it’s old tech. Blurples are older tech. QB for hlg are top shelf 301b(2018)diodes or top shelf 561c(2017). There are full spectrum 3000k is although considered to lean to flower in color the light is so intense the veg doesn’t mind at all. The electricity use being lower is 2 fold. 50watts per square for hps, blurple, cfl. 35watts per square for QBs. That alone is less. But then you can turn them down even lower for the size of the plant and growth stage. Ppfd is how you measure light. 800ppfd is max for your plant without CO2 but that’s a full grown plant. 2-400ppfd for sprouts, 600 young plant. With hps and blurples you change that with height(ups and down of the light) with an you can just turn down the light saving. Hps can be dialed Dow if you buy that style. But hps shines 360(round bulb) which is wasted light. Directly below an hps is super high ppfd 1000-1800(400watt-1000watt) wastes electricity since you can’t absorb it. So the savings on electricity is more than just less Watts for your grow. And yes there isn’t a best light there is a minimum standard. Pre built leds aren’t using top shelf leds. When leds are made they are tested for quality and organized by bin number. Higher the bin higher quality. Samsung is the top maker. Hlg, chilled logic, rapid, cobs. You can get all premade if you don’t want to do the assembly. It’s literally like legos though. Last thing lol. The “newest best have added red leds for added stretch. Oh and leds like these have no IR(infer red) so your rom has to be in the 80s to maintain leaf temp. That’s more electricity savings from ac/fan cooling.

yeah, that's my issue. I'm a real dumb dumb when it comes to electricity.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Samsung is the top maker

Several companies bring something to the table. Samsung manufactures good components. Mars-Hydro offers economy-class pricing with (much) better than economy-class performance. Signify's tunable (power and frequency/spectrum) looks interesting, and is highly thought of by those who are using their new products - including a produce farm in Japan that, while it isn't growing cannabis, is set up to produce up to 3,200 kilograms (7,055 pounds) per day, so one assumes that the people in the purchasing department are making good choices, lol. And over 1,000 companies are paying Signify for the right to use some of its technology. Lumileds has had some decent horticultural lighting LEDs since 2016 and the company isn't resting on its laurels; the company also has the "math" to help others design (+/-) custom horticultural products using its components.

MaxLite offers eight products that have been tested and qualified to be on the DLC's (DesignLights Consortium's) Horticultural Qualified Products List - and those were the first eight products to make it to the list, so kudos to MaxLite. (Why is that list a significant thing? Contributors to the DLC horticultural specification included 20 lighting manufacturers, researchers from the Lighting Research Center (LRC) at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, researchers at the Lighting Enabled Systems and Applications (LESA) laboratory at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, a multi-university consortium led by Cornell University called Greenhouse Lighting and Systems Engineering (GLASE), the American Society of Agricultural and Biological Engineers (ASABE), and the chief technology officer of vertical-farm specialist AeroFarms.)

Cree's XP-E2 stuff looks to be a winner in far-red and photo-red. This brand also has other positives. On the other hand, Ideal Industries, Inc. recently bought Cree Lighting and, as with any change in ownership, this one could ultimately turn out to be either a good thing or a bad thing. Speaking of bad things, Osram isn't... well, I sure wouldn't recommend that anyone acquire a lot of Osram stock this year, lol. Maybe next year - or maybe not. Anyway, the Cree monochromatic red LEDs are a big hit with companies like Plessey Semiconductors - which is, itself, an LED manufacturer, but one that doesn't make monochromatic red LEDs. Plessey Semiconductors' products are found in many large-scale commercial indoor gardens throughout Europe.

Lots of major players in the industry, and most of them contribute something. I saw a recent market research report that ranked the top ten packaged LED suppliers. These are some of the companies that make the LEDs in our LED products, and even a small market share is big business - the overall industry is now exceeding $16,000,000,000US (16 billion dollars!) annually. Here's the list:

1. Nichia – Japan, 14%
2. Osram Opto – Germany, 11% (I know, lol - why isn't Osram showing a tidy profit? )
3. Lumileds – US, 9%
4. Seoul Semiconductor – South Korea, 6% (Finally managed to get Mouser Electronics to stop selling products (from Everlight LED) that infringed Seoul Semiconductor's IP and, therefore, dropped its lawsuit.)
5. Samsung – South Korea, 6%
6. Mulinsen (MLS) – China, 5%
7. LG Innotek – South Korea, 5%
8. Cree – US, 4% (Sold to Ideal Lighting, Inc.)
9. Everlight – China, 3% (Apparently likes to use other companies' technology without paying for doing so .)
10. Lumens – South Korea, 3%

Fawk, now I forgot the point I was trying to make... Ohwaitaminute, lol, this: Samsung gets a lot of publicity on the cannabis forums, and it obviously manufactures good components. But it's not the only company that does. . . .