The Flavored Cannabis Project

[West Hippie]

Thanks @Skybound , I took one jar of 00 Kush from the previous grow that I just used MC and calmag. 00 actually has a great taste . But the second grow of 00 I did MC with big bud and bud candy which the bud candy has both I believe sulfur and magnesium. It didn’t seem to change the taste , it was slightly stronger . I see you grew the purple punch from Barneys. I have a mother plant in soil so far she’s given 22 clones . Going to do 10 girls next grow 4 in flood and drain rest in DWC so I can do multiple nutrients.
Hadn’t heard from you in a while ,definitely thank you for the reply you’ve always been great help .

 

[MAK1]

In my limited experience, Sulfur, and magnesium to a lesser degree are the most influential elements that enhance flavors. I don't believe we can alter the scents and flavors outside of what is written in the DNA of a given strain, but I could be wrong about that. All I know is if you get your sulfur content nearing the 100ppm region, your smoke will taste retardedly sweet! Not even joking in the slightest, citrus flavors, fruity flavors are the best, but adding sweetness to the piney, earthy and fuely strains also adds a very weird, but extremely pleasing taste when there's a very noticeable sweet note in the flavor that makes strains stand way out. I have an Incredible Bulk growing now that I've kept alive for maybe 6 months now, and she's not the greatest yielder, but has a decent stone and thee most intriguing taste about her. Think Witch Hazel, but oh so sweet. It makes me think of barbershop comb disinfectant, but because it's also sweet, it's all of a sudden a sought after profile and my down stream patients speak highly of this strain that's not much more than your basic strain, but because I kill my crop with Sulfur, it makes all my strains that much more desirable.

What are you feeding them for Sulfur? The reason for my question is that I postulate it is the metal side of the issue. Most final "sweeteners" look like N 1.0%, P 5.0%, K 4.0%, Ca 1.0%, Mg 0.5%, Mn 0.005%.

They all have similar ideas Phosphorous, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Manganese. Sulphur (gotta have it) is likely already available somewhere in adequate supply, adding more doesn't add much to the equation. Blackstrap molasses has all these minerals these covered in spades. Forget about the sugar because that aint it. It's the minerals. Read the label, some have as much potassium as 600mg/TBS. Reports ALWAYS call for unsulfured molasses though. Curious?

​

 

[Skybound]

Thanks @Skybound , I took one jar of 00 Kush from the previous grow that I just used MC and calmag. 00 actually has a great taste . But the second grow of 00 I did MC with big bud and bud candy which the bud candy has both I believe sulfur and magnesium. It didn’t seem to change the taste , it was slightly stronger . I see you grew the purple punch from Barneys. I have a mother plant in soil so far she’s given 22 clones . Going to do 10 girls next grow 4 in flood and drain rest in DWC so I can do multiple nutrients.
Hadn’t heard from you in a while ,definitely thank you for the reply you’ve always been great help .

IDK what's in the supplements you were using or how much total S you were giving or what the ratio of S to other anions or calcium to comment there, but because I make my own nutes and target all of my elements individually, perhaps it is my not over driving any of the elements that allows the elevated S content to have the desired effect but it definitely does, every single plant for over 2 years now. Here is my most recent feed chart. FWIW, these targets using Haifa Prime Calcium Nitrate and generic everything else produces PH perfect feed stock that stays at 5.8/5.9 for days and days till used up, so there's no metering needed, just mix and use. Anyways, the S content isn't as high as I'd like, but it is still plenty high enough to keep the smoke sweet and enjoyable.

 

[Skybound]

What are you feeding them for Sulfur? The reason for my question is that I postulate it is the metal side of the issue. Most final "sweeteners" look like N 1.0%, P 5.0%, K 4.0%, Ca 1.0%, Mg 0.5%, Mn 0.005%.

They all have similar ideas Phosphorous, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Manganese. Sulphur (gotta have it) is likely already available somewhere in adequate supply, adding more doesn't add much to the equation. Blackstrap molasses has all these minerals these covered in spades. Forget about the sugar because that aint it. It's the minerals. Read the label, some have as much potassium as 600mg/TBS. Reports ALWAYS call for unsulfured molasses though. Curious?

​

I don't use any brand of nutrients, I make all of my own from salts and chelated metals. In my signature, there's a video about Hydro Buddy. In the description of that video is the BOM of everything I use and the video explains how to use the app. The first Hydro Buddy link in my sig directs to my thread on 420 about how to make concentrates and beyond that, I use the app to allow me to target my elements individually and in almost every scenario, hits my targets flawlessly (excluding Sulfur). It's another topic to target for higher S content, but for the sake of staying on topic, I'm very happy with where my S PPM is in all of my charts. I'd like more for late bloom, but I only use that for the last 10 days more or less.

About molasses, I'm not sure if the elements in it are ionic, or require soil microbes to make ionic, but I think the desulfurization had something to do with packaging and odors back in the days.

 

[013]

Hey Skybound, excited to have you here! I’m fairly well convinced we can modify smell, taste and flavor profile beyond the given DNA. In my noggin there’s just way too much evidence, plus a few have said it couldn’t be done. Guess I’m a non conformist from way back.

Definately not trying to be a dick here but in one manner of thinking you contradicted yourself. If mag or sulfur sweetened the bud then why not other substances? Yes I contradict myself often and I get sulfur & mag are plant friendly minerals. Think there Is more than just NPK cal-mag & micros happening here, yes absolutely those are imperative and that’s what we focus on but by adding a flavor component in a sense we are hacking nature with nature……

How much it’s modified and what flavors are best to use are anyone’s guess. Bear in mind I’m just a country boy dirt farmer but that’s the reason for this thread - a place to centralize info.

It’s kind of like the childhood memory of mom putting food coloring in water for cut daffodils, if colors can traverse the plants system then why not flavor? Yes I get it’s a cutting with direct access from stem to the flower petals. My bizarro cinnamon bud story from opening paragraph sealed the deal for me. IMHO the 3 methods are soil, air and water and in place of soil that could be any grow media. Pretty confident we can modify the flavor on a living growing plant and also after the chop. Whether the flavor is riding along with trichomes or is expressed in the plants biomass - I don’t know.

anywho said it before gonna say it again - my bud tastes just fine and I don’t need designer flavors but what I’m after is putting this out there for others to try and share their experience here. The goal is to have a few growers run a pair of clones, run one clone plain Jane and run the other with a flavor component added during the grow, prolly just thru flower cycle would be enough

my garden is a shit show after the great fungus gnat & spider mite orgy of 2020 and then we rolled right into what I think was russet hemp mites so I’m just now getting restarted.

A skilled grower really has nothing to lose, don’t waste your expensive beans but run a pair of clones since the beans would be different phenos anyway. Come on and jump in - tell us what you discover.

 

[Skybound]

There are definitely other elements that contribute to terp production, I just found Sulfur mostly, and mag to a lesser extent to really be the defining factor, and as far as I can tell, the choice is either sweet, or not sweet, lol. There's not a lot of ability in that, but it's still something.

I L-O-V-E testing theories, I've taught myself so much chasing whims and learning hard lessons. This is how humanity has evolved and science flourished. I like your theory too, but I'm fuzzy how you're incorporating your flavor component and what that component consists of. I should probably read the previous posts and nut up on what you're trying to do before going too far out into the weeds.

 

[MAK1]

IDK what's in the supplements you were using or how much total S you were giving or what the ratio of S to other anions or calcium to comment there, but because I make my own nutes and target all of my elements individually, perhaps it is my not over driving any of the elements that allows the elevated S content to have the desired effect but it definitely does, every single plant for over 2 years now. Here is my most recent feed chart. FWIW, these targets using Haifa Prime Calcium Nitrate and generic everything else produces PH perfect feed stock that stays at 5.8/5.9 for days and days till used up, so there's no metering needed, just mix and use. Anyways, the S content isn't as high as I'd like, but it is still plenty high enough to keep the smoke sweet and enjoyable.

Wow! Looking at that list I'd bet you have some pretty colorful flowers in the end.

 

[013]

cool deal Skybound yes sir would be amazing to have your skill sets noodling around in here. First paragraph tells most of the story but its short thread anyway. I don’t envision using complex flavors at this time just keep it simple one ingredient in the beginning. Could be done with a single spice or an essential oil. Mr Krip confirmed we are barking up the right tree and i believe most plant based flavor extracts are fairly well tolerated by growing plants in small doses over time

 

[MAK1]

There are definitely other elements that contribute to terp production, I just found Sulfur mostly, and mag to a lesser extent to really be the defining factor, and as far as I can tell, the choice is either sweet, or not sweet, lol. There's not a lot of ability in that, but it's still something.

I L-O-V-E testing theories, I've taught myself so much chasing whims and learning hard lessons. This is how humanity has evolved and science flourished. I like your theory too, but I'm fuzzy how you're incorporating your flavor component and what that component consists of. I should probably read the previous posts and nut up on what you're trying to do before going too far out into the weeds.

So many theories.
Lots of talk about what is needed to make more THC. "We can rebuild him! Better Stronger Faster" opps sorry
I was looking at a website showing the primary terpenes of different seeds. Limonene, Pinene, Caryophyllene.
I figure if the experts can make more THC then there has to be a way to make a plant express more of the terpenes targeted.
For now, I am chomping at the bits. I have 3 ready to finish out. One Bubba has no smell at all so I got crazy with lemon and lime peels boiled in water and feed along with cinnamon. All this happened right about the time I got her unstuck from a phosphate shortage so I'm hoping she sucks it up.
The other two step-sisters (seeds from the same bud) both got lemon peel water. Sort of like lemon head candies without the sugar.
Everyone gets a dose of molasses and Epsom salts.
I'm a neophyte yet so frustrated at the misconceptions over molasses and that's not just the cookies talking. I am staying Loyal To The Soyal.
I think the lemon expressing. I touched one recently and my wife said my hand smelled like lemon. It keeps getting better. I don't have any control(s) subject

 

[013]

that’s fantastic MAK1, yes I’m itching to play with the concept but I’m totally freaking dankrupt so for now a safe boring grow is imperative here, I gotta fill a few jars. I do think clones and control plants are they way to go that way you have something to compare against plus you have the ability to use a friend as a sensory tester to confirm your work. I do think a longer low dose flavor treatment is the way to go but I’m speculating at best. Regardless I’m looking forward to your input

 

[Mdlroad]

Hey Skybound, excited to have you here! I’m fairly well convinced we can modify smell, taste and flavor profile beyond the given DNA. In my noggin there’s just way too much evidence, plus a few have said it couldn’t be done. Guess I’m a non conformist from way back.

Definately not trying to be a dick here but in one manner of thinking you contradicted yourself. If mag or sulfur sweetened the bud then why not other substances? Yes I contradict myself often and I get sulfur & mag are plant friendly minerals. Think there Is more than just NPK cal-mag & micros happening here, yes absolutely those are imperative and that’s what we focus on but by adding a flavor component in a sense we are hacking nature with nature……

How much it’s modified and what flavors are best to use are anyone’s guess. Bear in mind I’m just a country boy dirt farmer but that’s the reason for this thread - a place to centralize info.

It’s kind of like the childhood memory of mom putting food coloring in water for cut daffodils, if colors can traverse the plants system then why not flavor? Yes I get it’s a cutting with direct access from stem to the flower petals. My bizarro cinnamon bud story from opening paragraph sealed the deal for me. IMHO the 3 methods are soil, air and water and in place of soil that could be any grow media. Pretty confident we can modify the flavor on a living growing plant and also after the chop. Whether the flavor is riding along with trichomes or is expressed in the plants biomass - I don’t know.

anywho said it before gonna say it again - my bud tastes just fine and I don’t need designer flavors but what I’m after is putting this out there for others to try and share their experience here. The goal is to have a few growers run a pair of clones, run one clone plain Jane and run the other with a flavor component added during the grow, prolly just thru flower cycle would be enough

my garden is a shit show after the great fungus gnat & spider mite orgy of 2020 and then we rolled right into what I think was russet hemp mites so I’m just now getting restarted.

A skilled grower really has nothing to lose, don’t waste your expensive beans but run a pair of clones since the beans would be different phenos anyway. Come on and jump in - tell us what you discover.

I'm seriously considering trying something to influence flavor on my next grow

 

[Skybound]

That is a snapshot of flavor being added after the crop has been harvested. What piques my interest is flavor being introduced while the crop is growing. Your interest may vary from mine. I maintain that a growing plant can be enhanced by ingredients to manipulate the smell and taste by using 3 routes - by soil additives, by environmental exposure thru air or by additives in the feed water solution. That’s it soil, air or water. For you hydro folks - sure be my guest and try it with coco, dwc or whatever. Some additives may work well in hydro while others may crash and burn. But to keep it simple for taste testing purposes it’s best to stick with only one flavor at a time.

What I can't reconcile with is the belief/theory that whatever chemicals/substances/solutions are added to the feed will be uptaken, used and influence the scents and tastes the same way as perceived by our nose/tongue in the first place. Consider fish emulsions or hydrolysates. Growers sprays ground up rotted fish all over their plants throughout a grow, yet the weed doesn't smell like or taste like rotted fish. Would the same not also apply to lemon or lime zests being added to the ferts? As one that plays around with the chemistry of nute making, I can see how adding various solutions on an experimental basis would likely change the chemistry of the ferts, tho I don't know if that would be in a good way or a bad way, but I suspect lemon or lime zests would function as an acid (spit balling) and pull the PH down. IDK if the roots would uptake any of these additions or not. Foliar applications I suspect would have a greater chance of success as you can mix whatever you want into the water and sneak it in around the stomata, then at least it's inside the plant.

 

[013]

I get that but let’s spin it another way…. Have you ever had a meal with a large serving of arugula or a huge portion of asparagus? Did you observe a few hours later that you can smell that unique arugula or asparagus scent in your urine? We are what we eat, can’t see why it would be any different for a plant

With every substabce we deploy in the garden we are laser focused on how it impacts plant growth, at the same time we have ignored the possibility that additives can change the flavor.

With my cinnamon bud fiasco I was desperately trying to kill off the fungus gnats or make the soil so unpalatable they would go elsewhere. I believe fishy ferts can impact the flavor but not all scents will be easily detected. While the odor of fish guts register as off the charts to our noses the plant may absorb that odor but yet not replicate the scent back to us in the same manner.

My cinnamon bud did not register as off the charts - it was muted but it was present if you sniffed the bud and was definitely.present on every exhale. I would love to see this concept fleshed out and maybe one day someone could do lab testing.

I do understand the skepticism - that’s why I started this thread in the first place.

 

[MAK1]

that’s fantastic MAK1, yes I’m itching to play with the concept but I’m totally freaking dankrupt so for now a safe boring grow is imperative here, I gotta fill a few jars. I do think clones and control plants are they way to go that way you have something to compare against plus you have the ability to use a friend as a sensory tester to confirm your work. I do think a longer low dose flavor treatment is the way to go but I’m speculating at best. Regardless I’m looking forward to your input

What I can't reconcile with is the belief/theory that whatever chemicals/substances/solutions are added to the feed will be uptaken, used and influence the scents and tastes the same way as perceived by our nose/tongue in the first place. Consider fish emulsions or hydrolysates. Growers sprays ground up rotted fish all over their plants throughout a grow, yet the weed doesn't smell like or taste like rotted fish. Would the same not also apply to lemon or lime zests being added to the ferts? As one that plays around with the chemistry of nute making, I can see how adding various solutions on an experimental basis would likely change the chemistry of the ferts, tho I don't know if that would be in a good way or a bad way, but I suspect lemon or lime zests would function as an acid (spit balling) and pull the PH down. IDK if the roots would uptake any of these additions or not. Foliar applications I suspect would have a greater chance of success as you can mix whatever you want into the water and sneak it in around the stomata, then at least it's inside the plant.

This might help to reconcile some concerns. This is a paradigm change.

Direct absorption of molecules

The implications of plant absorption of large molecules and endocytosis are that the present mainstream model of agronomy based on measuring and managing nutrie

johnkempf.com

Here are Bargyla’s thoughts on the subject, updated in 1993:

Direct Absorption1

Since the disastrous integration of manmade chemicals into agriculture, a huge structure of error has been built upon the false premise that “only ions can be absorbed”. Based on this, a measurement of soil and recommendations for soil have utilized the concept of “cation exchange” and the “CEC” has been the BE-ALL of soil testing. Small structures such as ions are said to be “able to cross the membrane”. Discussions of the varied means for this fill textbook chapters on the subject of absorption.

We now know that this is all passé, an outdated formula promoted by the greedy minds of the chemical dispensers. There have been a number of investigators over the years who have documented that entire molecules were absorbed,

It seems, however, that agricultural academia has either not yet caught up with the new research data, or minimizes it, or simply cannot bear to acknowledge that the monstrous pile of data accumulated throughout the world’s agricultural efforts can be wrong. One author, aware of endocytosis, nevertheless said it must be simply an adjunct to the usual ion absorption theory!

We are therefore the first to have introduced to agriculture the information and concerning the actual facts of how plants absorb through coated pits, distribute by smooth vesicles and exude via smooth vesicles, and the repercussions this implies for husbandry. It totally reverses dependence on the worthless Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC) tests, to which even organic growers still desperately cling.

We firmly believe that this discovery is the second great find of this century, second to only the disclosure/explanation of the DNA/RNA spiral, as it affects worldwide agricultural practice.
I am tending to believe that much of the available science is being suppressed by large Ag companies. Have you ever looked a package of anything. Try to find out what's in there. They're hiding it from YOU and ME. What are they hiding? WHY are they hiding it? Don't go accepting that it's a proprietary blend because it all about the same. You can find out what there but you gotta dig. Big business and honesty are like oil and water.

 

[013]

Boom there it is….. way to go MAK1.

 

[MAK1]

I get that but let’s spin it another way…. Have you ever had a meal with a large serving of arugula or a huge portion of asparagus? Did you observe a few hours later that you can smell that unique arugula or asparagus scent in your urine? We are what we eat, can’t see why it would be any different for a plant

With every substabce we deploy in the garden we are laser focused on how it impacts plant growth, at the same time we have ignored the possibility that additives can change the flavor.

With my cinnamon bud fiasco I was desperately trying to kill off the fungus gnats or make the soil so unpalatable they would go elsewhere. I believe fishy ferts can impact the flavor but not all scents will be easily detected. While the odor of fish guts register as off the charts to our noses the plant may absorb that odor but yet not replicate the scent back to us in the same manner.

My cinnamon bud did not register as off the charts - it was muted but it was present if you sniffed the bud and was definitely.present on every exhale. I would love to see this concept fleshed out and maybe one day someone could do lab testing.

I do understand the skepticism - that’s why I started this thread in the first place.

Looking for ideas. I'm going to be growing some...
*Bruce Banner #3
*Indoors
*In soil
*(2) 150 watt LED lamps

What sort of flavor direction might you add to the dirt or feed water? I know you went cinnamon, kudos. What else you got rolling round your grey matter that I might use to add Love
MSNL flavor wheel has "spicy/incense" as primary with "citrus" and "berry" as secondary.

 

[MAK1]

Boom there it is….. way to go MAK1.

We'll start a company "Terpenes Direct". We'll get a process patent and market it is as a supplement to get TERPENES to DIRECTLY INFLUENCE and add a personal touch to your grow. We could have a whole line of terps. Wow, that really is a creative smoke. LOL

 

[Skybound]

I am tending to believe that much of the available science is being suppressed by large Ag companies. Have you ever looked a package of anything. Try to find out what's in there. They're hiding it from YOU and ME. What are they hiding? WHY are they hiding it? Don't go accepting that it's a proprietary blend because it all about the same. You can find out what there but you gotta dig. Big business and honesty are like oil and water.

It has been proven that Ag companies and nute companies ae in FACT lying through their MF teeth (Guaranteed Analysis). The very last link in the video description of my video in my sig points to a blog entry by Daniel Fernandez outlining this very fact and is thus why my claim that we can reverse engineer nutrient lines is mostly false. They intentionally give incorrect numbers on their labels to protect their proprietary formulas and the only way to get the correct numbers is to send liquid samples to a lab to be analyzed to determine that actual percentages of each element in a given bottle. As Daniel explained on my journal in another competing forum that 420 won't allow me to link to, he explained why it has to be liquid ferts and not dry ferts like Megacrop or Jack's, but the end result is the same that we are 100% being lied to. This is the reason I no longer try to rev engineer nutrient lines and simply rely exclusively on my own experience and the T&E I've done throughout the years.

I commend you all for your devotion to travel the unbeaten path and to pioneer a new facet of gardening. It doesn't add up for me, but I've definitely been wrong more times than most people, plus I'm so focused on my own thing that it's difficult for me to peel my attention away to investigate new topics sometimes and this could very well be one such time. The only thing I think I can contribute at this point is a link to a PGR that is sort of aiming at the same/similar target as this thread

Methyl Jasmonate

I experimented with triacontanol and always wanted to get some MJ, but just never got around to it.

 

[013]

Hey MAK1

I‘m a firm believer we gotta start with clones. Otherwise there is no control plant and further how will we know the difference between phenotypes? Even if you take 5 White Widows from the same bud they will not produce identical plants - the growth, taste and terps will each carry a different expression. Right?

Clones are the way to go then you can make head to head comparisons since both plants were identical twins cut from the same mother. Clone A was grown straight up and smells like diesel but her twin sister Clone B was given citrus essential oil and is fruity AF. Plus we are less likely to piss anyone off if/when a clone bites the dust. The clone concept means you don’t have to risk expensive beans and a pair of clones should carry identical taste and terps so we can easily distinguish the differences.

but with that said I’m down for any experimentation regarding flavor. You could go soft and subtle with lavender, or more boldly with menthol but I do think for now any takers should only apply one scent over the duration of the subject plants life cycle. Sandalwood, citrus, watermelon, lemongrass, anise, clove, banana, the world is your oyster. In the end I think we will be amazed that some really strong flavors don’t translate very well and perhaps a few muted flavors may exceed expectations.

Aw cool Skybound - 420 member Maritimer is working on Jasmonate in his journal

 

[Mdlroad]

Looking for ideas. I'm going to be growing some...
*Bruce Banner #3
*Indoors
*In soil
*(2) 150 watt LED lamps

What sort of flavor direction might you add to the dirt or feed water? I know you went cinnamon, kudos. What else you got rolling round your grey matter that I might use to add Love
MSNL flavor wheel has "spicy/incense" as primary with "citrus" and "berry" as secondary.

I have some Bruce Banner seeds. When I get going I'll clone her and give this a shot. I'm a strawberry lover