1st time using FloraSeries in coco: need advice

[Cwmoore577]

So after my last grow I decided to switch to the GH FloraSeries nutrient line and had a few questions for anyone that has experience using it in a coco based medium.

My medium is Royal Gold Tupur (3 gal fabric pots) and my light is a 250watt red-spec LED from BudgetLED in a 2x4 tent with 2 plants.
Temps: 70-77°F
Humidity: 50-70%

These are what I have:
GH FloraMicro 5-0-1

GH FloraGro 2-1-6

GH FloraBloom 0-5-4

Cutting Edge Solutions Calmag Amplified 2-0-0 (subbed for Calimagic)

Stout Mono-Silicic Acid (subbed for Armor Si)

Floralicious Plus 2 - 0.8 - 0.02

I use RO water only.

At first I started the plants (first couple of days) on what cocoforcannabis website recommended for seedlings which was..
5ml/gal CalMag
1.25ml/gal FloraMicro
0.6ml/gal FloraGro
0.6ml/gal FloraBloom
diluted to 0.4EC, 275ppm, 6.2pH


Then I upped it to this...
5ml/gal CalMag
2ml/gal Micro
1ml/gal Gro
1ml/gal Bloom
0.7EC, 500ppm, 6.1pH

and for the last week it so I’ve gone with 1/2 dose of what the GH feedcharts recommend for early growth as well as went and got the stout msa and Floralicious plus..
5ml/gal CalMag
2ml/gal Micro
2.5ml/gal Gro
0.5ml/gal Bloom
1ml/gal Stout MSA
1ml/gal Floralicious Plus
0.75EC, 500-550ppm, 5.8-6.0pH

I have begun to see some deficiency signs (probably magnesium) and some drooping leaves as well.
My last runoff measurements were 6.08 ph, 0.69 EC and 460ppm.

Here are some pics from today..

Zkittlez Auto

GelatOG Auto

So far I’ve only watered once a day to runoff (around 1/4 gal each maybe) and today I started to water twice daily. Also for the past few days I’ve done foliar sprays with Epsom salt at a ratio of 1/2 tsp in 1/4 gallon RO water thinking that may be my problem.

This is also the first time I’ve attempted an automatic drip feed setup with a reservoir as well. I’ve hand watered about every 3rd day as well to make sure everything gets saturated and there are no parts that have salt build up.

Am I doing anything incorrectly? I want to make sure I’m getting the proper ratios of nutrients and it’s taking a bit for me to get the hang of it it seems.

 

[gr865]

You don't need the grow, use micro and bloom and start at 1/4 rate increase or decrease as necessary. I would also use Cal/mag at recommended rates and .5 to 1 gram epsom salt per gallon.
My assistant grow this way and has great results.

 

[Cwmoore577]

You don't need the grow, use micro and bloom and start at 1/4 rate increase or decrease as necessary. I would also use Cal/mag at recommended rates and .5 to 1 gram epsom salt per gallon.
My assistant grow this way and has great results.

So no FloraGro throughout the whole veg and flower stage?

 

[gr865]

That's what we are doing. I started doing this when I grew in hempys. I have had my assistant using this formula in coco since day one, only as I stated he uses 0.25 rate.
H3ad's formula for coco states:
"After watching and reading and generally being impressed with the results you've all been getting with the coco medium, I've had to make the switch myself...

Being the rebel that I am...Not having coco specific nutes, and having a full supply of GH flora micro and bloom, I've been working at tailoring the 'Modified Lucas formula' I was using in pro-mix to suit the coco better...

The mix I have arrived at has reduced levels of K and P, and a slight reduction in total concentration, because I have been keeping the runoff to a minimum (only a few ounces of water come thru, just enough to let me know I'm completely saturated...

So... when I was using a modified lucas formula... my nutrient profile when growing in promix was:
N 130
P 93
K 163
Mg 64
S 43
Ca 130

By mixing 8ml/gal micro and 14ml/gal bloom and watering with plain water every other watering...

In the coco, I am now using 6ml/gal micro and 9ml/gal bloom which gives the nute profile:
N 97
P 60
K 105
Mg 41
S 27
Ca 97

adding 1 g/gal epsom salts to the solution changes the numbers for mg and s to:
Mg 67
S 61

Adjusting for the extra available potassium in the coco, the new formula puts me very close to the 'target ratio'... Phosphorous is a tad low, but I think there should be no worries there...

Nothing is too far along in flower right now, but I'll get some pics up a bit later.

I have also seen advantage in keeping the coco fairly wet, I'm guessing that the coco holds the nutes so well, that as moisture evaporates out, concentrations rise..."

Are you going to running DTW (drain to waste)?
If so runoff is important.
__________________

 

[Cwmoore577]

That's what we are doing. I started doing this when I grew in hempys. I have had my assistant using this formula in coco since day one, only as I stated he uses 0.25 rate.
H3ad's formula for coco states:
"After watching and reading and generally being impressed with the results you've all been getting with the coco medium, I've had to make the switch myself...

Being the rebel that I am...Not having coco specific nutes, and having a full supply of GH flora micro and bloom, I've been working at tailoring the 'Modified Lucas formula' I was using in pro-mix to suit the coco better...

The mix I have arrived at has reduced levels of K and P, and a slight reduction in total concentration, because I have been keeping the runoff to a minimum (only a few ounces of water come thru, just enough to let me know I'm completely saturated...

So... when I was using a modified lucas formula... my nutrient profile when growing in promix was:
N 130
P 93
K 163
Mg 64
S 43
Ca 130

By mixing 8ml/gal micro and 14ml/gal bloom and watering with plain water every other watering...

In the coco, I am now using 6ml/gal micro and 9ml/gal bloom which gives the nute profile:
N 97
P 60
K 105
Mg 41
S 27
Ca 97

adding 1 g/gal epsom salts to the solution changes the numbers for mg and s to:
Mg 67
S 61

Adjusting for the extra available potassium in the coco, the new formula puts me very close to the 'target ratio'... Phosphorous is a tad low, but I think there should be no worries there...

Nothing is too far along in flower right now, but I'll get some pics up a bit later.

I have also seen advantage in keeping the coco fairly wet, I'm guessing that the coco holds the nutes so well, that as moisture evaporates out, concentrations rise..."

Are you going to running DTW (drain to waste)?
If so runoff is important.
__________________

Yes I’m dtw. And if I were to not use the Gro, what ratio of Micro to bloom would I use in early to late veg

 

[gr865]

We run 2/3 the entire run, plus Cal/mag as it will need 1 to 2 ml +/- and 0.5 to 1 gram of Epsom per gallon.
We add Liquid Koolbloom at 5 weeks flower for two weeks @ 1/3rd rate.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I've wondered, off and on, about the "h3ad's formula" and "Lucas formula" recommendations. They obviously work. But people seem to add magnesium in the form of a "Ca/Mg" product and, often, still more magnesium in the form of Epsom salt.

But the FloraGro that people (using the above nutrient schedules) don't use... contains magnesium carbonate, magnesium nitrate, and magnesium sulfate.

I'm sure I don't know one way or the other - but it seems like the plant food equivalent of buying sugar-free cereal - and then buying sugar to put on it.

There was a time when I was using the three-part Flora series in medium(?)-sized DWC reservoirs. This was before I read of the above two nutrient schedules, maybe (IDK) before they were arrived at, so I was using all three components. I did, at one point, end up with a calcium deficiency. That turned out to be the point that someone convinced me to use expensive (to me) store-bought RO water instead of the "crap" that came out of my kitchen faucet. Which also seemed to me like buying sugar-free cereal just so I could buy some sugar to dump in it.

 

[Cwmoore577]

We run 2/3 the entire run, plus Cal/mag as it will need 1 ml +/- and 0.5 to 1 gram of Epsom per gallon.
We add Liquid Koolbloom at 5 weeks flower for two weeks @ 1/3rd rate.

Ok so 2/3 of the GH feedchart correct? I have Koolbloom so I’ll definitely be using it later on as well.
Also my calmag is 2% nitrogen, 3.5% calcium, 1% magnesium and 0.1% iron. I think calimagic is 5% calcium, would you still recommend 1ml/gal rate in RO?

Thanks for your time as well. I appreciate the knowledge and help tremendously.

I've wondered, off and on, about the "h3ad's formula" and "Lucas formula" recommendations. They obviously work. But people seem to add magnesium in the form of a "Ca/Mg" product and, often, still more magnesium in the form of Epsom salt.

But the FloraGro that people (using the above nutrient schedules) don't use... contains magnesium carbonate, magnesium nitrate, and magnesium sulfate.

I'm sure I don't know one way or the other - but it seems like the plant food equivalent of buying sugar-free cereal - and then buying sugar to put on it.

There was a time when I was using the three-part Flora series in medium(?)-sized DWC reservoirs. This was before I read of the above two nutrient schedules, maybe (IDK) before they were arrived at, so I was using all three components. I did, at one point, end up with a calcium deficiency. That turned out to be the point that someone convinced me to use expensive (to me) store-bought RO water instead of the "crap" that came out of my kitchen faucet. Which also seemed to me like buying sugar-free cereal just so I could buy some sugar to dump in it.

Yea I know how you feel. I get my RO from the store as well.
Do you currently use it without the Gro? And if you have run both, do you favor one over the other?

 

[TorturedSoul]

Yea I know how you feel. I get my RO from the store as well.
Do you currently use it without the Gro? And if you have run both, do you favor one over the other?

I haven't grown a plant this year (got seeds that are looking at me pretty impatiently, though ). I haven't used General Hydroponics products in years (but I've a box full of bottles that are giving me the hairy eyeball, too). And, furthermore, I have not grown in coco coir in some years and don't have much experience in that regard (but there's a block of it sitting in a bag (also looking kind of left out) right beside a sack of calcium nitrate (that keeps jumping up and down and shouting, "When are you going to pre-soak a batch of that coco in a solution of me?!").

So I latched onto this thread in order to learn. I've got the stuff, might as well start using it again, eh?

But, regardless of what/how I grow next, I won't be using fancy water. THANKFULLY, my little city still uses chlorine instead of chloramine. With the former, I can just leave a gallon uncovered overnight (or for an hour or two in sunlight) to dechlorinate it. Or, if I am in a hurry, dump a capful or two of hydrogen peroxide into it and give it a gentle shake for a moment or two.

 

[gr865]

I've wondered, off and on, about the "h3ad's formula" and "Lucas formula" recommendations. They obviously work. But people seem to add magnesium in the form of a "Ca/Mg" product and, often, still more magnesium in the form of Epsom salt.

But the FloraGro that people (using the above nutrient schedules) don't use... contains magnesium carbonate, magnesium nitrate, and magnesium sulfate.

I'm sure I don't know one way or the other - but it seems like the plant food equivalent of buying sugar-free cereal - and then buying sugar to put on it.

There was a time when I was using the three-part Flora series in medium(?)-sized DWC reservoirs. This was before I read of the above two nutrient schedules, maybe (IDK) before they were arrived at, so I was using all three components. I did, at one point, end up with a calcium deficiency. That turned out to be the point that someone convinced me to use expensive (to me) store-bought RO water instead of the "crap" that came out of my kitchen faucet. Which also seemed to me like buying sugar-free cereal just so I could buy some sugar to dump in it.

For us it's due to the reduced rates we use, 2/3 instead of 6/9, does not provide the Cal/Mag and Mag needed for growing in coco. JMHO!

 

[gr865]

Ok so 2/3 of the GH feedchart correct? I have Koolbloom so I’ll definitely be using it later on as well.
Also my calmag is 2% nitrogen, 3.5% calcium, 1% magnesium and 0.1% iron. I think calimagic is 5% calcium, would you still recommend 1ml/gal rate in RO?
Thanks for your time as well. I appreciate the knowledge and help tremendously.

No, not 2/3rds feed chart.
2ml/3ml vs 6ml/9ml.

If you are going to go with the reduced rates of base nutes then you will need the extra Calcium and Magnesium, remember coco is a Cal/Mag hog..

 

[Cwmoore577]

I haven't grown a plant this year (got seeds that are looking at me pretty impatiently, though ). I haven't used General Hydroponics products in years (but I've a box full of bottles that are giving me the hairy eyeball, too). And, furthermore, I have not grown in coco coir in some years and don't have much experience in that regard (but there's a block of it sitting in a bag (also looking kind of left out) right beside a sack of calcium nitrate (that keeps jumping up and down and shouting, "When are you going to pre-soak a batch of that coco in a solution of me?!").

So I latched onto this thread in order to learn. I've got the stuff, might as well start using it again, eh?

But, regardless of what/how I grow next, I won't be using fancy water. THANKFULLY, my little city still uses chlorine instead of chloramine. With the former, I can just leave a gallon uncovered overnight (or for an hour or two in sunlight) to dechlorinate it. Or, if I am in a hurry, dump a capful or two of hydrogen peroxide into it and give it a gentle shake for a moment or two.

In my city there’s no chance in hell I’d use the tap lol
If you do decide to use coco, the coco for cannabis website has been a tremendous help for me.

No, not 2/3rds feed chart.
2ml/3ml vs 6ml/9ml.

If you are going to go with the reduced rates of base nutes then you will need the extra Calcium and Magnesium, remember coco is a Cal/Mag hog..

So 3ml of bloom the whole run? Interesting.

I wish I had a bigger setup so I could experiment on a plant or two and see the effects.

Here’s a updated shot of my two..

Looking a tad better but unsure if I’ve corrected the issue or not.

I’ve started watering twice a day which might help my ph range, lowered the amount of calmag given from 5ml/gal to around 3ml/gal as well as started using the 1ml/gal mono-silicic acid and 1ml/gal Floralicious Plus.

 

[gr865]

So 3ml of bloom the whole run? Interesting.
I wish I had a bigger setup so I could experiment on a plant or two and see the effects.

Hey buddy, I am just telling you what we are doing, it works for us. Like adding a given amt of cal/mag or epsom, you have to play with the rates to see what works best for you.
Normally can tell in early growth if you have deficiencies and adjust to meet your needs.

 

[TriangleCheese]

I switched to FloraCoco Grow and Bloom and can't be happier. They have very rich content and they don't need much support. I am just using Mykos, Floracoco, Sensi Cal/Mag(because this one has chelated iron) and pK13/14. Pretty simple setup. I just wanted to share my experience here because its a fairly new product line. Hope you get the chance to try it

 

[NOOOBIENOT]

Correct if I am wrong but that plant doesn't look any where near centered in the pot , it looks like it is up against the edge of the cloth pot , if so that will be a problem , the roots closest to the pot will be a lot dryer -not good , the cloth wont hold moisture or nutes , I would transplant to the center of the pot if this is the case , the roots need to grow in all directions to feed the plant and to maintain its ability to stay vertical, I have done many of coco grows with the gh nutes and use a 2ml per liter of water with all 3 nutes and then 2 ml/liter of cal mag in r.o. water , gets my ppm around 475 ppm and a ph of 5.8-6.0 , max , just increase the bloom as you move into flower , you don't need the Epson salts it just adds more salt to the pots , you are already using a salt based nutrient formula these are synthetic nutes , be sure to aerate your water also with a stone and pump , you cant go wrong with this basic formula , plus I add a small amount silica to my watering every time , just watch as the armor silica will cause the ph of your water to rise , I use the silica as a ph buffer because when I add the nutes to water the ph drops too low , a few drops of silica bring my ph back up 5.9 , I use the silica as a ph buffer and the plants love silica , never had to use my bottle of ph up yet .

 

[NOOOBIENOT]

be sure to adding your cal mag 1st before the nutes get added .

 

[Cwmoore577]

Hey buddy, I am just telling you what we are doing, it works for us. Like adding a given amt of cal/mag or epsom, you have to play with the rates to see what works best for you.
Normally can tell in early growth if you have deficiencies and adjust to meet your needs.

As of last night I switched my res to the heads formula like you suggested. I started with 3ml Micro, 4.5ml bloom, 1ml calmag and 0.5 gram Epsom per gallon. Will see how it does, might lower to the 1/3 strength as you do.

Correct if I am wrong but that plant doesn't look any where near centered in the pot , it looks like it is up against the edge of the cloth pot , if so that will be a problem , the roots closest to the pot will be a lot dryer -not good , the cloth wont hold moisture or nutes , I would transplant to the center of the pot if this is the case , the roots need to grow in all directions to feed the plant and to maintain its ability to stay vertical, I have done many of coco grows with the gh nutes and use a 2ml per liter of water with all 3 nutes and then 2 ml/liter of cal mag in r.o. water , gets my ppm around 475 ppm and a ph of 5.8-6.0 , max , just increase the bloom as you move into flower , you don't need the Epson salts it just adds more salt to the pots , you are already using a salt based nutrient formula these are synthetic nutes , be sure to aerate your water also with a stone and pump , you cant go wrong with this basic formula , plus I add a small amount silica to my watering every time , just watch as the armor silica will cause the ph of your water to rise , I use the silica as a ph buffer because when I add the nutes to water the ph drops too low , a few drops of silica bring my ph back up 5.9 , I use the silica as a ph buffer and the plants love silica , never had to use my bottle of ph up yet .

No, they’re centered I just bent them over to start with LST.
Also, using over 7ml per gallon of all three of the FloraSeries plus calmag gives you 475ppm? I’m confused here.
With 0.5ml Stout MSA, 1ml CalMag, 0.5 grams epsom salt, 3ml FloraMicro and 4.5ml FloraBloom I’m currently at around 400ppm.

I added Epsom salts after I noticed the yellowing between the veins. Seemed to slow it down and I’ve now switched to 1/2 strength h3ads formula so I’ll likely have to keep the epsom salts.

edit: yes I add my nutrients in this order..
Silicon
Calmag
Epsom salt
Micro
Bloom
Floralicious (if used)
Ph up/down

 

[DeltaDubie]

i believe your miss and important fert at the top of your threat

flora blend...

for the gp hydro ferts flora blend

now u just need to get a real grow light

check these buds out under 630 watt de cmh awesome screw led..

day 61 rock hard buds.. rock hard wow.. beautiful

cri of 91 3200 k bulb.. awesome bang for your buck

 

[Cwmoore577]

i believe your miss and important fert at the top of your threat

flora blend...

for the gp hydro ferts flora blend

now u just need to get a real grow light

check these buds out under 630 watt de cmh awesome screw led..

day 61 rock hard buds.. rock hard wow.. beautiful

cri of 91 3200 k bulb.. awesome bang for your buck

Can’t understand much of what you tried to say.
You think I’m missing florablend?

Also I just got one of the 250 watt PCB LED boards from BudgetLED which has LM301b diodes and a Meanwell driver. For now, I don’t think lighting is an issue either.

Edit: also from those pictures, it looks like those plants have some light/heat stress causing foxtailing and curled up edges.

 

[Cwmoore577]

@gr865
Hey, you’re the only person I know to contact that has experience using the heads formula ratios..



I’ve read up on Gr3atfulh3ad’s original post on icmag and I know he recommends “feeding 6/9 up until the plant completely stops stretching and begins bud formation in earnest, then depending on the plant I will bump up the bloom for a week or two before cutting out the Micro just about the time calyx production begins to slow and budswell begins.”


I was wanting to ask when you make the switch to flower nutrients and drop the Micro? Do you bump up bloom for a week or two before like he mentioned?

Wondering if I should bump up bloom soon and when I should cut Micro?
Heres how mine look (coming up right at week 7)