A Base Treatment Regimen For Cancer

[panacea]

I had pics om my phone but deleted them. The next time i make a batch i will be sure to post them( harvest season not till late sept , early oct thou). The only reason i set back into the freezer is so that it speeds up my filtering process( sediments settle to the bottom) and keeps the chlorophyll and plants waxes coagulated so the filter catches them.I could filter all at once but my alcohol would reach room temperature since it can take awhile for you to filter 1 gallon of alcohol & cco mix through #4 coffee filters, this would cause chlorophyll and waxes to dissolve back into the mix. That is why if i was going to do the Qwet method( which imo is just as good) i would set it back in the freezer for a few hours before i ran it through the coffee filters. Also save a separate jar for the bottom of each jar where the sediment settles since that jar will be the slower filtering. No use clogging all your filters with the crap on the bottom. I also use up to 6-8 funnels and filters to really speed up the process.

 

[CCOiler]

Thank you Panacea for your insight I will have to think through this process a few times. Maybe I will buy a small freezer just for the filtering time with the door shut

 

[SweetSue]

When I do my washes I let them filter in the freezer. As soon as I have it distributed among the jars I'm using I toss them all back into the freezer and leave it alone for a while to completely drain.

 

[Amanita]

Thanks to all who replied to my previous post!
I will try to answer Sue's questions and provide more details without going too long.
Ovarian cancer is apparently one of the tougher ones with a high recurrence and low 5 year survival rate. This may be due to in part to the fact that it is usually not diagnosed until it is late stage and generally in older women.
In our case it was stage III b at age 55. After a full hysterectomy and 6 cycles of both IV and IP chemotherapy we thought we were done.
But after 5 months it was back and growing fast. 5 months and another 6 cycles of chemo later, we are back where we started a year ago. This time we are doing it different. We want keep it from coming back again so the regimen is plant based diet, herbs, exercise and RSO. It may not make any difference and we may have to do chemo again as many times as it still works. (it is common for OC to become chemo-resistant)

I have read everything by Simpson as well as other sources, and still making my way through the resources here.

I bought two 3g syringes of CCO from a local dispensary:
S>I Alpenglow Simpson Oil THC 42.3%/CBD 8.4%
S>I Huckleberry Simpson Oil THC 28.8%/CBD 31%
The oils were less viscous then I thought they would be (as per Mr. S)
We tried tacking but my Wife found that she was getting a stomach ache.
So I mixed with cocoa butter 20g/2g and made suppositories. I estimate .2g per supp (2.5g each)
I tried the Alpenglow to test the impact. (Pleasant euphoria and relaxed body high)
I thought the Alpenglow would be better for night time but in fact it seemed to keep her awake. But no stomach ache.

Question: it appears the even when it makes her sleep, her sleep is restless or light. Does this mean the does is too low?
I have not really tested the Huckleberry yet.

We both found that the next day we felt flu like symptoms: sore throat & sinus congestion.
Question: Is this normal? Could this be due to the extraction method?

The 3rd Oil was from a different supplier I found online. They seem to be committed to serving cancer patients and following Mr. S methods.
They provided one 1g syringe pure CCO and 15 1g syringes of 50/50 CCO and coconut oil (to use rectally). The pure oil looks exactly like what Mr. S describes. They also included a BudGenius report that indicates Organic indoor grown Indica 61.74%, THCd9, 2.66%CBD, 1.42%CBN

First time she tried tacking the pure CCO (1/2 grain rice) at night, she found that she slept well, but had stomach ache again.
I found it to be Very Strong.

Now we are on hold until I work out the dosing regimen and finalize the source for oil.

So here is what I need to know:
Now that chemo is over the focus is on keeping the cancer at bay, rather than treating or curing it. Do we still need to do the full 1g x 60+ days protocol?
What is a good mix formula for Cocoa butter suppositories?
What is a good THC/CBD ratio for daytime use?
Is a dose of 1 suppository per 12 hours adequate? or should there be more smaller doses?

On another track - how do I really know what is being taken?
-Short of testing every syringe I feel concerned that I really have no idea what is in there.
I know that the best thing to do is grow my own and make the oil my self, and I would like to. But as care giver and provider my time is limited.
I am considering buying top shelf flowers in spite of the expense. It was suggested that I try to buy "rich machine trim" from a grower. This sounds good but I do not know any growers or friends of growers. I have seen trim for sale on Craig's list and BudBay but again, how do I know what I am buying?

Is there a reliable, affordable source for RSO out there? Is it realistic that one could find quality trim on CL or BB?

Sorry for the long post. Thanks again to all of your work and sharing.

A

 

[SweetSue]

Sorry for the long post. Thanks again to all of your work and sharing.

No need to apologies Amanita. I was getting ready to thank you for being so thorough. I'll sit down and read through this again in a bit and see what I can help you with. In the meantime, I'm sure others will chime in.

I feel your frustration with quality control. Under your constraints the best approach might be to purchase the bud material and make your own. The quality of the buds from a reputable dispensary should be trustworthy.

I'll be back later. Give the wife a big hug from me.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Thanks for being so thorough. It helps to see the big picture which helps to zero in on specific problems.

Question: it appears the even when it makes her sleep, her sleep is restless or light. Does this mean the does is too low?

2 things come to mind. First, euphoria is an uplifting effect that can keep you awake even though you feel relaxed and even a little sleepy. The Alpenglow oil probably contains some sativa type strain. Use this for daytime and use an indica type oil for night.
Second, chemo really messes up sleep long after it's over. My doctor prescribed two meds for sleep, one was off label use to address restless muscles that kept sleep med from working by itself. Now that I'm using MMJ I don't need the sleep meds but it took a long time to heal to that point. Starting dose of MMJ would be too low to deal with chemo induced insomnia, but with increased dosage it will.

Hope that helps. I will try to address more later today.

 

[SweetSue]

Hello again Amanita.

Looking over your list of oils, the first is from a dispensary named Alpenglow, which tells us nothing about the strain dominance. Given her lite sleep response, I'd consider it a sativa-dominant. The Huckleberry is also a sativa-dominant. That leaves you with the third, which is an indica, and this is what I'd be choosing for the night meds, anything given after say 5 PM. This'll give her system time to wind down and hopefully get her sound sleep.

The only way to guarantee a dependable supply of oil is to either grow yourself or purchase trustworthy plant material and make your own oil. You already know if you're buying make it organic. Another alternative is to partner with a caregiver, who can cultivate your chosen strains and possibly produce the oil for you.

The cold-like symptoms could be due to a couple different things:
- You may have overloaded the endocannabinoid system with too strong a dose, in which case you'll feel hung over the next morning. Sativas cause this to happen moreso than indicas, and that syringe of oil may well be a sativa.
- You may be dealing with some herxing, whereby the body is overrun with toxins created by the hard work the cannabinoids are doing. Sometimes it takes a while for the immune system to clear all the leftover crap out.
- It's possible you both picked up some type of bug that showed up, coincidentally, at this time.

Here's a link to Cajun's post on suppositories. He recommends 2 gr coco butter for each suppository. The CCO inclusion would be dose-based.

Suppositories

Break the daily dose up into four and space them out through the day. The cannabinoids only survive for up to 4-5 hours in the system, or so we've been told. This means you want to get the major doses to span as much of those hours as possible. Spacing them 12 hours apart will do what chemo does - eliminate the weaker tumor cells while the stronger ones Just continue to grow.

Which brings me to the question of whether or not to do the entire 60-day run. You've been through chemo and received clean labs to later discover how deceptive those lab reports can be. If it were me, I'd do the entire 60 days and then see to it that I stayed on a maintenance dose for the rest of my life. Do you really want to risk it? There's a fair amount of assurance that if you get up to the gram a day and stick it out to the end you'll have beaten the disease. If it's affordable, I'd go for it.

If she had cancer right now I'd be suggesting you slowly get her up to around 300mg a day and have some labs done before you increased the dose potency any further. There's evidence suggesting that many patients respond positively to smaller doses.

We're all new to this Amanita. Putting our heads together we can hope to avoid any setbacks and get her completely healed.

 

[panacea]

When I do my washes I let them filter in the freezer. As soon as I have it distributed among the jars I'm using I toss them all back into the freezer and leave it alone for a while to completely drain.

Another good idea, if my freezer was not such a mess. Might do what CCOiler mention, about getting a small freezer specifically for CCO production. thanks guys

 

[SweetSue]

Another good idea, if my freezer was not such a mess. Might do what CCOiler mention, about getting a small freezer specifically for CCO production. thanks guys

I've been considering this myself. I have a tiny freezer. When I bought this fridge I went for the smallest unit. Little did I know someday I'd need the space for oil production.

 

[Amanita]

Hello Sue,
That makes sense, the first two oils are definitely Sativa dominant hybrids. The third oil is called "Northern Lights" and is an Indica.
Your explanation of flu symptoms is plausible.

We will definitely do the 60+ days (to help recover from chemo). 300mg per day is a good target and should be manageable both physically and financially. If the markers start to go up we can increase the dose.
For now I am thinking the suppository mix should 19:1 cocoa butter to CCO which would result in 50mg CCO per gram of cocoa butter or about 150mg CCO per suppository, does this sound correct?

Thanks again to all respondents!

It seems like if nothing else, the the relaxation and expanded awareness that comes with cannabis are healing by themselves. Stress before cancer, stress during cancer. The stress has to go.

A

 

[SweetSue]

Hello Sue,
That makes sense, the first two oils are definitely Sativa dominant hybrids. The third oil is called "Northern Lights" and is an Indica.
Your explanation of flu symptoms is plausible.

We will definitely do the 60+ days (to help recover from chemo). 300mg per day is a good target and should be manageable both physically and financially. If the markers start to go up we can increase the dose.
For now I am thinking the suppository mix should 19:1 cocoa butter to CCO which would result in 50mg CCO per gram of cocoa butter or about 150mg CCO per suppository, does this sound correct?

Thanks again to all respondents!

It seems like if nothing else, the the relaxation and expanded awareness that comes with cannabis are healing by themselves. Stress before cancer, stress during cancer. The stress has to go.

A

I agree with you on the suppository dose goal, but that might be a bit much for a start. Cajun's recommendation was to increase the oral doses until you reach 100mg per dose and then do 75% with suppositories and the other 25% orally. That would mean the initial suppositories should be 75 mg per dose. If you make up some BioBomb capsules you could use them as edibles or as suppositories. Starting with the 20:1 mix would make it a 50 mg dose per. This would allow her system time to build up the tolerance she'll need.

I don't know if you're aware of the BioBomb capsule discussion going on over at the Study Hall thread. I encourage you to stop by and look it over. The link to the Study Hall is in my signature, all the way at the bottom. Just go to the current page and back up. We've been refining the formula for the past few days and we're confident with what we've come up with. This formula makes the oil more bioavailable, so less oil offers more benefit.

One of our chief goals here is to help with stress reduction. We figure warm greetings, a willingness to dig for the information and the ability to help you see the light showing you the way out of this forest of confusion chemo left you in should give you cause to take a deep breath and relax.

Good to know we were right about that.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Amanita,
I'm glad you're going forward with 60 day protocol with target of 300 mg /day. I was concerned that a maintenance dose would make your wife feel better but not reach all of the places that cancer could be hiding.

Regarding the stomach aches, could it just be the side effects of chemo coming back as CCO wears off? Right after chemo I experienced strong let-downs which at first I attributed to MMJ strains I was using for daytime relief but realized it was just the crappy everyday post-chemo feeling returning as MMJ wore off. The more my body healed the less I noticed the let-downs. Another thing I discovered is that my entire GI tract was inflamed after chemo, but I didn't notice it when I was on MMJ, only when it wore off.

Regarding daytime ratio, I found 2:1 and 3:1 ratio with higher THC easier to tolerate than 1:1. For me that was enough CBD to counteract psychoactive effects, and I was taking orally, not tacking or suppositories. I'm learning to tack now preparing for another 60 day cycle. Recently I did single dose of mostly THC about 300mg accidentally but tolerated it fine without building up to that level. (A 'what was I thinking' moment - my oil was too runny to stay on finger, I tried applying it directly to gums, thought I could control syringe to release just 50mg, found out I was wrong.)

I hope my random thoughts help. Definitely check out Sue's Study Hall. It will clarify a lot of what we are talking about.

 

[nobby32]

Hi Sue and all, I thought I'd do an update, seeing as how I'm now in Week 5 of my treatment. I've just had a PSA test and I'll hopefully get the results in a few days and that will tell me how I'm travelling.

I stopped the hormone therapy at the same time I started this. My PSA was then 9. Without the hormone therapy it should increase gradually so if it's higher that would mean the CCO isn't working.

Just had a call from the doctor - PSA is 7.05 which is encouraging!

Also I mixed up and took a test capsule with 50mg of oil to see how I'd react. Good, I felt stoned but still able to coordinate my limbs and thoughts, so that will be my maintenance dose every night.

Overall I feel good, I'm not remotely stoned (That is good when I'm working), but I am sleeping VERY heavily. It's a real battle to wake up and take the kids to school - they help of course by pulling off the bedclothes, jumping on my stomach, and/or getting our dog to lick my ear!

I have been inserting the syringe only about an inch or so, and since I've been doing that I've had no euphoria. In week one I was inserting two inches I reckon, and I think that a vigorous shunt of the syringe would shoot the oil up towards the hepatic vein, thus getting me stoned. Or I've become accustomed to the oil - whatever, the result is good!

Also, I haven't the patience to lie on my side for 10-20 minutes. I just get up and on with it. Never had an issue with leakage or anything. I guess time will tell. Happy to be test bunny here...

Will update if anything significant happens. Cheers, Nobby.

 

[SweetSue]

Hi Sue and all, I thought I'd do an update, seeing as how I'm now in Week 5 of my treatment. I've just had a PSA test and I'll hopefully get the results in a few days and that will tell me how I'm travelling.

I stopped the hormone therapy at the same time I started this. My PSA was then 9. Without the hormone therapy it should increase gradually so if it's higher that would mean the CCO isn't working.

Just had a call from the doctor - PSA is 7.05 which is encouraging!

Also I mixed up and took a test capsule with 50mg of oil to see how I'd react. Good, I felt stoned but still able to coordinate my limbs and thoughts, so that will be my maintenance dose every night.

Overall I feel good, I'm not remotely stoned (That is good when I'm working), but I am sleeping VERY heavily. It's a real battle to wake up and take the kids to school - they help of course by pulling off the bedclothes, jumping on my stomach, and/or getting our dog to lick my ear!

I have been inserting the syringe only about an inch or so, and since I've been doing that I've had no euphoria. In week one I was inserting two inches I reckon, and I think that a vigorous shunt of the syringe would shoot the oil up towards the hepatic vein, thus getting me stoned. Or I've become accustomed to the oil - whatever, the result is good!

Also, I haven't the patience to lie on my side for 10-20 minutes. I just get up and on with it. Never had an issue with leakage or anything. I guess time will tell. Happy to be test bunny here...

Will update if anything significant happens. Cheers, Nobby.

Thank you for this excellent update nobby, and I'm glad to hear the children are on the ball.

The heavy sleeping - can you dose a little earlier in the evening? My thought is to back up a bit and hopefully find that window width so you can adjust the dose time to give you the best stretch of deep sleep without drowsiness.

Good to hear the depth/tolerance solution to overwhelming euphoria has worked out for you. I'm most excited to hear of the PSA drop. Very encouraging. It appears you've found a good therapeutic dose for yourself.

Well done nobby. We'll be watching for you next time. Keep healing.

 

[nobby32]

Thank you for this excellent update nobby, and I'm glad to hear the children are on the ball.

The heavy sleeping - can you dose a little earlier in the evening? My thought is to back up a bit and hopefully find that window width so you can adjust the dose time to give you the best stretch of deep sleep without drowsiness.

Good to hear the depth/tolerance solution to overwhelming euphoria has worked out for you. I'm most excited to hear of the PSA drop. Very encouraging. It appears you've found a good therapeutic dose for yourself.

Well done nobby. We'll be watching for you next time. Keep healing.

You know what Sue? It's a delight to have you here overseeing our wellbeing so to speak.

It's wonderful to receive such encouragement and feedback. You, and I'm sure I speak for everyone here, are a rock in a time of adversity.

Thank you Thank you Thank you!

Long may you reign, oh Queen of the Oil!

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Great to hear, Nobby! thanks for sharing. Let's keep this success party going!

 

[KingstonRabbi]

I apologize for the negativity included in this post, but I had to share it somewhere.

This week is 10 months since I got the proverbial prognosis from my ex-oncologist. That realization on top of all the other stresses of this week put me over the edge a bit. Thinking that half the people that received the same diagnosis are gone made me sad and angry and a few other emotions I can't identify. Saw another article about DEA decision and started spiraling downward into violent thoughts that I'm not proud of. Thought of hooking up the DEA chief and a few others to bags of cisplatin. Not a lethal dose (although I had some of those thoughts too) but enough to show what they are doing to people by denying effectiveness of MMJ.

I clocked out from work for a few hours to walk and sit and decompress. Then came back and started reading through more of this thread (up to pg 28 now). As usual the healing recorded here was contagious. Green tea helped too. My anger is far from cured, but at least I'm able to turn it back toward positive steps.

Thanks to everyone who has posted here. This site is part of my treatment in many many ways.

I see my current oncologist at the end of this month. By then my juice/oil program will be fully operational. I'll be hitting you all up to help dial in my treatment protocol between now and then so I can share it with her and maybe make some more progress on turning the medical establishment around.

 

[Dave Groomer]

I apologize for the negativity included in this post, but I had to share it somewhere.

This week is 10 months since I got the proverbial prognosis from my ex-oncologist. That realization on top of all the other stresses of this week put me over the edge a bit. Thinking that half the people that received the same diagnosis are gone made me sad and angry and a few other emotions I can't identify. Saw another article about DEA decision and started spiraling downward into violent thoughts that I'm not proud of. Thought of hooking up the DEA chief and a few others to bags of cisplatin. Not a lethal dose (although I had some of those thoughts too) but enough to show what they are doing to people by denying effectiveness of MMJ.

I clocked out from work for a few hours to walk and sit and decompress. Then came back and started reading through more of this thread (up to pg 28 now). As usual the healing recorded here was contagious. Green tea helped too. My anger is far from cured, but at least I'm able to turn it back toward positive steps.

Thanks to everyone who has posted here. This site is part of my treatment in many many ways.

I see my current oncologist at the end of this month. By then my juice/oil program will be fully operational. I'll be hitting you all up to help dial in my treatment protocol between now and then so I can share it with her and maybe make some more progress on turning the medical establishment around.

I feel your pain/anger. Here. Use a bit for mental health. I am lucky to live in a legal state, but unlucky in that it is very restrictive not to mention expensive.

When I was diagnosed with MS, I had heard about people treating with cannabis. As a recovering alcoholic, all I had to go on initially was the "Main stream" propaganda on pot. I was not novice. I college I smoked acres of the stuff. Then at 25 I got sober. Now, 20 something years later, they are telling me that something that I thought would be a threat to my sobriety, might also help. I started reading and researching and low and behold. Those DARE classes my kids were in were wrong. The more I read the more upset I became thinking how this plant could have helped so many people.

I have gotten over my anger (most of the time ) by doing what I can to help others learn the truth. Whether is is here online or in person. "preach the good word" to those that want to hear it.

 

[SweetSue]

I apologize for the negativity included in this post, but I had to share it somewhere.

This week is 10 months since I got the proverbial prognosis from my ex-oncologist. That realization on top of all the other stresses of this week put me over the edge a bit. Thinking that half the people that received the same diagnosis are gone made me sad and angry and a few other emotions I can't identify. Saw another article about DEA decision and started spiraling downward into violent thoughts that I'm not proud of. Thought of hooking up the DEA chief and a few others to bags of cisplatin. Not a lethal dose (although I had some of those thoughts too) but enough to show what they are doing to people by denying effectiveness of MMJ.

I clocked out from work for a few hours to walk and sit and decompress. Then came back and started reading through more of this thread (up to pg 28 now). As usual the healing recorded here was contagious. Green tea helped too. My anger is far from cured, but at least I'm able to turn it back toward positive steps.

Thanks to everyone who has posted here. This site is part of my treatment in many many ways.

I see my current oncologist at the end of this month. By then my juice/oil program will be fully operational. I'll be hitting you all up to help dial in my treatment protocol between now and then so I can share it with her and maybe make some more progress on turning the medical establishment around.

We share your frustration. I try my best to avoid anger, but I'll admit to too many tears brought on knowing there are people out there suffering needlessly because our politicians are more concerned with maintaining the status quo than in helping their constituents.

You're the second rant like this I've weathered today.

We do our best to ignore the madness and stay focused on the goal of healing. No need to apologize for sharing the negative thoughts now and then. They're a part of this whole process and to deny we have them is a disservice to ourselves, IMHO. If we never share the negatives we can't share how we overcame them, and that may be just what some future reader needs to hear.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Quote Originally Posted by cajuncelt View Post
Also, I have a prediction of sorts...
Terpenes are the future of cannabis as a med. Truthfully. Without terpenes, flavonoids, ect. there is no cannabinoid.

They even make up what we know as Sativas vs indicas. They decide what the cannabinoid, say THC, is going to do.

Anyone willing to learn everything they can would sure be welcomed to any info I got as well.

Remember ya heard it here first. Lol.

To get a jump start on how the direction eventually changes to this subject in the notsofar future, I would learn everything I could about terpenes. It is the future of cannabis medicating.

Already started. Now the growers need to catch on and start telling us what terpenes are found in which strains.

This goes all the way back to post #449, which is as far as I've read so far.

Analytical360 posts all of its test results online. The THC/CBD levels are posted in long table. Detailed profile of 9 cannabinoids and 9 terpenes is available if you click on each test batch individually. I've been downloading profiles of strains I use to see what makes them work. It takes a long time to do one by one. It would be nice if they would allow access to the full data set to speed things up for us. Werc Labs and others might also share for research purposes.

It's interesting to see how well fixed some strains are and others can hardly be called strains. Dutch Treat has very stable profile across a dozen samples (with 1 outlier), while the classic White Widow has been so adulterated that only a few samples are true to the strain.

I wish I had more time to work on that myself. Nailing down the profiles for medical use has been one of my goals since I started researching MMJ for my own treatment. One of the problems with going by profiles, though, is the entourage effect. Early on I was interested in humulene (still am!) but found other strains high in humulene with very different effects. I was hoping that by adding specific terpenes to CCO I could produce desired effects, but this blessedly confounding plant just isn't that simple!

Still, I agree with cajun that terps are the future of MMJ.