A Base Treatment Regimen For Cancer

[SweetSue]

please let me explain again what I do and it is the Mara way mixed with my way

I am stage IV OC after 8 chemo courses

I take CBD and THC separately as Mara is advising. THC and CBD sub lingual. I take one vaginal suppository as advised.

I added one rectal suppository

please feel free to ask me any question you like



edit
I forgot to mention that I use the mix of the BioBombs with lecithin as advised. I do a 5:1. I am very satisfied.

The voice of experience trumps passion every day CCSC. I'd be listening to stayalive's advice before mine.

 

[CCSC]

ok so this is what my mom is taking right now. CBD has greatly improve her pain. remember she was only taking pure THC before....

78%THC oil 78%CBD oil

1st dose 8am
130mg suppositories 1:1 THC, CBD
25mg CBD capsule orally

2nd dose 3pm
130mg suppositories 1:1 THC, CBD
25mg CBD capsule orally

3rd dose 10 pm
supositories 4:1 THC,CBD

At such a low dose Im sure is not attacking the tumor at full force.

Im planing her next schedule, feed back is welcome. She will start chemo soon. stayalive any suggestions as to supplements to help wit side effects?

My mom has been happy with her suppositories but the more I read the threads I see how Bioavailabilty is huge. Sue you have stress I get her on that asap...will do. Im sure ill have loads of questions as to how to do them. this is my list for supplements I will be buying for her

Apignen
amentoflavone
Probiotic (50 billion spores per capsule)
acacia fiber (10g Day)

Mangoes, gree tea, dark chocolate, green apples for demethylation.

Cajun where is he? Im only on thread 34 and still cant catch up.

Sue Im trying to read as much as I can but I feel that the more I read the more I get confuse. Which is why I have not alter her medication. As she has decided to use chemo. Should I still up her dosage? Please dont feel Im ignoring what has been suggested. There is lots of new terminology that Im trying to understand. I might need it to be said 2 maybe 3 times. Its been an exhausting journey and we are not in to Chemo yet. By the way I have not even ask as to how to monitor her progress. How often does she need blood work or PET scnas ... In other words how do I know this stuff is working? I mean I know it is I could see it that at such a small dose and her pain has greatly improve.

Thank you for the guidance. Please be patient with me as simple answers are not that simple when emotions get on the way.


CCSC

 

[CCSC]

Just what I needed. A backbone to the research. I've been all over the place, trying to understand the whole picture. As a new bee of wanting to know everything In hopes to not miss information, valuable information that may affect your results.

I need to breath five myself time to digest clear my head and start fresh. I feel I've been running in circles

 

[CCSC]

Oh, you would've.
Some things would make sense intuitively, others you'd question.
You'd research it, contact the current experts when/where you could.
You'd see the basics:
1. The human ECS, receptors, etc.
2. Learn about cannabis as medicine. The cannabis, terpenes, flavonoids, etc.
3. Learn bioavailability & the human blood/brain barrier.
4. Basic med knowledge (which turns advanced real quick).
5. Keep an open mind, but beware of gurus. I've been an ass on here over the years to much to be a guru. Lol.
6. Start putting it together with help from an oncologist, physician, people in the med field.
That can't go your way, but you can use them for knowledge.
7. I'm not revealing the Dragon Scrolls... There are none. We're all pioneers in this. No matter what body of knowledge we have.
I don't remember the rest....

But, the names I mentioned & the folks you will all influence & teach, would've all learned.

Did I mention I'm tired of the cold? Cold weather makes everyday things just that much harder.
I'm used to walking around in no shirt by now.

I was talking about this

CCSC

 

[SweetSue]

ok so this is what my mom is taking right now. CBD has greatly improve her pain. remember she was only taking pure THC before....

78%THC oil 78%CBD oil

1st dose 8am
130mg suppositories 1:1 THC, CBD
25mg CBD capsule orally

2nd dose 3pm
130mg suppositories 1:1 THC, CBD
25mg CBD capsule orally

3rd dose 10 pm
supositories 4:1 THC,CBD

At such a low dose Im sure is not attacking the tumor at full force.

Im planing her next schedule, feed back is welcome. She will start chemo soon. stayalive any suggestions as to supplements to help wit side effects?

My mom has been happy with her suppositories but the more I read the threads I see how Bioavailabilty is huge. Sue you have stress I get her on that asap...will do. Im sure ill have loads of questions as to how to do them. this is my list for supplements I will be buying for her

Apignen
amentoflavone
Probiotic (50 billion spores per capsule)
acacia fiber (10g Day)

Mangoes, gree tea, dark chocolate, green apples for demethylation.

Cajun where is he? Im only on thread 34 and still cant catch up.

Sue Im trying to read as much as I can but I feel that the more I read the more I get confuse. Which is why I have not alter her medication. As she has decided to use chemo. Should I still up her dosage? Please dont feel Im ignoring what has been suggested. There is lots of new terminology that Im trying to understand. I might need it to be said 2 maybe 3 times. Its been an exhausting journey and we are not in to Chemo yet. By the way I have not even ask as to how to monitor her progress. How often does she need blood work or PET scnas ... In other words how do I know this stuff is working? I mean I know it is I could see it that at such a small dose and her pain has greatly improve.

Thank you for the guidance. Please be patient with me as simple answers are not that simple when emotions get on the way.


CCSC

Because we've been trained by pharma to come at disease with big guns we get anxious when we shift to a more holistic approach. Rest assured, you'll get the cannabinoid loads up to more powerful levels, but it's better to gently coax the ECS than to smack it with a heavy load. You're progressing fine.

Don't concern yourself with needing to read this entire thread. The first few pages are the most important for starting, and we're active here to walk you through the rest of the way. Read at your leisure. There's more time than your frantic brain thinks there is. If your mother's getting relief, healing is underway. Now the game becomes consistency and increasing potency, which we'll chiefly do through bioavailibility.

No one has any idea where Cajun is at this time. His life took a drastic turn and he's resetting. There's no assurance he'll be back. Such is the nature of virtual communities. I harbor a deep hope that this dream of his will pull him back our way, but time will tell. In the meantime, he assured himself before wandering off that the thread had a dedicated core of supporters.

You have my promise that no one will think you're out-of-turn for asking even the most mundane questions a dozen times. We're here to do whatever we can to help you get through all of this. It's all much simpler than it appears on the surface, and once you get in the rhythm it becomes as natural as breathing.

Once you get to biobombs you'll probably settle in on 5:1 capsules. It's the odd case that needs more potency. Continue with the cannabinoid therapy as she progresses through chemo. The only thing that may happen is they may need to reduce the chemo drugs, but they won't know that until they get going. The cannabinoids are her protection from the dangers of chemo, and there's no reason to slow down the regimen.

I'm impressed with your regimen. Very well done. Data coming back from the clinics is showing that many cancers don't require the one-gram-a-day treatments we worked out in the trenches with Rick Simpson's encouragement. A great number respond positively to doses below 300 mg a day, as a matter of fact, so her current regimen is just fine. The biobombs will increase bioavailability dramatically. My only recommendation would be to increase the load from this point by adding in at least one more dose a day.

Don't hesitate to ask anything.

 

[SweetSue]

CCSC.... Please don't think we'll take offense if you don't follow all of our advice. Cannabinoid therapies are individual things, and there are so many ways to skin this cat it's not even funny. Find the method that works for you, and we'll do what we can to support you in any way we can.

 

[stayalive]

ok so this is what my mom is taking right now. CBD has greatly improve her pain. remember she was only taking pure THC before....

78%THC oil 78%CBD oil

1st dose 8am
130mg suppositories 1:1 THC, CBD
25mg CBD capsule orally

2nd dose 3pm
130mg suppositories 1:1 THC, CBD
25mg CBD capsule orally

3rd dose 10 pm
supositories 4:1 THC,CBD

At such a low dose Im sure is not attacking the tumor at full force.

is this the dosage that Mara Gordon Team gave you?

is she taking the THC and CBD separately?

can't she take the 25mg CBD sub lingual?

how much THC/CBD in mg is the 3rd dose?

the Mara Gordon way and her experience is to give elderly people less than 1g Oil a day and children up to 1g

please let me tell you my daily dosage
Oil is about 74% THC and separate Oil is 12% CBD (BioBomb mix 5:1)

morning
10mg THC sub lingual

3 hours later
65mg CBD sub lingual

3 hours later
65mg CBD sub lingual

before bed time
60mg THC sub lingual
60mg THC rectal suppository
60mg THC vaginal suppository

before each take in I take 2 apigenin

Im planing her next schedule, feed back is welcome. She will start chemo soon. stayalive any suggestions as to supplements to help wit side effects?

I am taking each day (same when I had chemo)

curcumin plus 2 pills a day

selen 2 pills a day

psyllium husk 2 times a day

omega3

fresh pressed orange juice

fresh cold pressed apples (3) with beetroot

Mangos

Green Tea with Ginger

a lot of walking or/and rebounding on a trampoline (best is rebounding on a small trampoline)

Don't stop the Oil dosage during chemo

I don't touch meat and sugar

I eat only fish like salmon, cod, herring

only spelt bread and products

as I said before I am very proud of you. ask ask ask ask cause there are no silly questions only silly people who don't want to answer

we are here in very good hands and I received a lot of help here

 

[gagsy77]

Greetings from the UK.

I have been reading many of your posts with interest, as I am currently helping to care for my father-in-law, who has a neuroendocrine tumour in his lung with mets to liver and lymph nodes. This is my first post on the forum, so I am not sure if this is the right place to post up some of my queries regarding methods of delivery, bio-availability, and THC/CBD profiles but I'll give it a go. If I am in the wrong place, I'd appreciate it if you can point me in the right direction!

1.) Liposomal Encapsulation

Firstly, I have a quick question about bioavailability. Obviously we want to make sure that we are getting as many cannabinoids into the system without being quickly metabolised quickly by the liver. I have been reading up on liposomal encapsulation, and came across a method on the kitty smiles badkat cannapharm site. I have been making caps and suppositories following that guide. Here's the link BadKat's CannaPharm - Medical Cannabis Oil

From comparing the badkats method to the guide to liposomal encapsulation posted on this thread, I see some differences between the amount of heating applied to the lecithin, CCO and carrier oil. There is also some difference in your methods between either freezing or refridgerating the mixture. Just wondered if you have any thoughts on this as to which method has the most merit?

2.) Vaping for lung cancer?

I am also interested in knowing more about whether vaping a CCO tincture would be effective for a lung cancer patient and whether any potential benefits also come with potential harms?

3.) Different types of Carrier oils

Another issue that I am interested in trying to shed some light on is which carrier oils work best. I have read that Medium chain fatty acids are good for the liver whereas longer chain fatty acids go to the lymphatic system. Is this correct in your understanding?

4.) The great suppository debate

Methods of administration is another topic I'd like to feel clearer about. I have read very conflicting arguments regarding suppostories with one side arguing that it dramatically increases bio-availability and others claiming that the cannabinoids are unable to be absorbed into the blood stream in this way. Just wondered if you'd come across any convincing studies/arguments either way.


5.) THC/CBD percentages

Finally I have a question about THC and CBD percentage and content. We have a high THC oil made from a lemon haze strain with 24%THC and we have a 1:1 THC/CBD made from a critical mass strain with about 14% CBD. From my reading I understand that a strain with over 20% THC is considered to be high yet I also keep reading that the CCO should have 80% THC to be effective. Am I getting confused here between the strength of the strain and the strength of the CCO? What I mean is, will a strain with over 20%THC make a CCO with a higher THC profile or will the percentage of the THC in the strain be the same as the percentage in the CCO? Be good to know if I have the right amount of THC otherwise I will have to source more.

6.) Ultrasonic cleaners?

I have also read that an ultrasonic cleaner can be used to aid in liposomal encapsulation. Just wondered if anybody had any thoughts on whether this works, and would be able to explain the science behind using an ultrasonic cleaner.

I think that's it for now! I appreciate that this is a long list but anything you can do to shed some light on my questions would be really appreciated. I have kind of taken on responsibility for administering the oil for my father-in-law and I don't want to f*** this up.

Thanks for reading

G

 

[SweetSue]

Greetings from the UK.

I have been reading many of your posts with interest, as I am currently helping to care for my father-in-law, who has a neuroendocrine tumour in his lung with mets to liver and lymph nodes. This is my first post on the forum, so I am not sure if this is the right place to post up some of my queries regarding methods of delivery, bio-availability, and THC/CBD profiles but I'll give it a go. If I am in the wrong place, I'd appreciate it if you can point me in the right direction!

1.) Liposomal Encapsulation

Firstly, I have a quick question about bioavailability. Obviously we want to make sure that we are getting as many cannabinoids into the system without being quickly metabolised quickly by the liver. I have been reading up on liposomal encapsulation, and came across a method on the kitty smiles badkat cannapharm site. I have been making caps and suppositories following that guide. Here's the link BadKat's CannaPharm - Medical Cannabis Oil

From comparing the badkats method to the guide to liposomal encapsulation posted on this thread, I see some differences between the amount of heating applied to the lecithin, CCO and carrier oil. There is also some difference in your methods between either freezing or refridgerating the mixture. Just wondered if you have any thoughts on this as to which method has the most merit?

2.) Vaping for lung cancer?

I am also interested in knowing more about whether vaping a CCO tincture would be effective for a lung cancer patient and whether any potential benefits also come with potential harms?

3.) Different types of Carrier oils

Another issue that I am interested in trying to shed some light on is which carrier oils work best. I have read that Medium chain fatty acids are good for the liver whereas longer chain fatty acids go to the lymphatic system. Is this correct in your understanding?

4.) The great suppository debate

Methods of administration is another topic I'd like to feel clearer about. I have read very conflicting arguments regarding suppostories with one side arguing that it dramatically increases bio-availability and others claiming that the cannabinoids are unable to be absorbed into the blood stream in this way. Just wondered if you'd come across any convincing studies/arguments either way.


5.) THC/CBD percentages

Finally I have a question about THC and CBD percentage and content. We have a high THC oil made from a lemon haze strain with 24%THC and we have a 1:1 THC/CBD made from a critical mass strain with about 14% CBD. From my reading I understand that a strain with over 20% THC is considered to be high yet I also keep reading that the CCO should have 80% THC to be effective. Am I getting confused here between the strength of the strain and the strength of the CCO? What I mean is, will a strain with over 20%THC make a CCO with a higher THC profile or will the percentage of the THC in the strain be the same as the percentage in the CCO? Be good to know if I have the right amount of THC otherwise I will have to source more.

6.) Ultrasonic cleaners?

I have also read that an ultrasonic cleaner can be used to aid in liposomal encapsulation. Just wondered if anybody had any thoughts on whether this works, and would be able to explain the science behind using an ultrasonic cleaner.

I think that's it for now! I appreciate that this is a long list but anything you can do to shed some light on my questions would be really appreciated. I have kind of taken on responsibility for administering the oil for my father-in-law and I don't want to f*** this up.

Thanks for reading

G

Hello G I just wanted to let you know your questions had been heard and before long you'll have answers coming in. This is an appropriate place for these to be answered. There are any number of places also useful, but you're treating cancer. Let's work in this room.

I have some personal matters to tend to, and then I'll be back. Others will likely check in. Good questions. They'll generate a load of education and discussion, I'm sure. I look forward to getting to know you better. Rest assured, cannabinoids are an effective treatment for cancer, and there are many pathways to homeostasis. Let's start with understanding and get some relief going.

Until later

 

[gagsy77]

Thanks so much for the reply. I'll look forward to your response in due course. Any help/guidance will be appreciated. Speak soon. #

G

 

[gagsy77]

Sorry to add another post to the thread before getting a response back on my first one, but I'd also like some advice on dose management if possible.

From what I have read, we should be aiming to build up to a gram a day within 60 days. We are just starting our 4th week of treatment with my father-in-law and we have him up to between 0.6-0.7g a day. We are hoping to get up to the 1 gram mark this week. Below is a breakdown of his current dosing regime; just wondering if Sue or anyone else on here has the time to have a quick look and give me some feedback.

Morning (after breakfast) oral ingestion of 50mg capsule of high THC oil (2:1 ratio) mixed with lecithin and coconut oil

Mid morning (after bath or shower ) suppository of 250mg high THC oil mixed with lecithin and coco butter

Afternoon oral ingestion of 200mg capsule (1:1 THC/CBD)

After dinner: oral ingestion of 200mg capsule (1:1 THC/CBD)

We also have some high CBD oil (2:1) ratio that I haven't really worked in to his programme yet (I've been told that this may be useful for tacking but don't have any hard info myself)

My father-in-law is able to handle the 50mg high THC caps pretty easy now. I think they come from a lemon haze strain which has a mix of indica and sativa; anyways, they seem to pep him up when he takes then. The 1:1 200mg really hits him hard though (dizziness, nausea, lack of balance) and when I once tried a 200mg high THC cap, he was high as a kite for a few hours.

I am just thinking about the best ways to increase the dosage up to a gram a day. For example, should I give him another strong THC dose as a suppository, or add in a few smaller 50MG caps in his routine. I am also not sure about how best to use the high CBD oil effectively.

Ultimately, I am searching for the holy grail of maximum bio-availability so my thinking is to use a combination of oral/sublingual/recta routes so I cover all bases. The cancer is a neuroendocrine tumour in his lung with mets to lymph nodes and liver; I don't have much knowledge about the relationship between different types of cancer and different CCO dosing guidelines, so any help in this department would also be super helpful.

Thank you for taking the time to read.

Best wishes to you all

G x

 

[CCSC]

Just wait. Someone will shine some light at you. For what I've read it sounds like you have things under control.

CCSC

 

[Radogast]

Greetings from the UK.

Greeting back at you. Good of you to be so well informed and well spoken. I appreciate the gentlemanly behaviour.


I'm not qualified to give medical advice so I'll just answer from a friendly guy perspective.

2.) Vaping for lung cancer?

I am also interested in knowing more about whether vaping a CCO tincture would be effective for a lung cancer patient and whether any potential benefits also come with potential harms?

Long term surveys of the Framingham Heart Study database have shown 'smoking' cannabis to have a beneficial effect in the prevention of lung cancer. (I no longer have access to medical studies, so I'm working from memory.) The takeaway is that smoking cannabis fights lung cancer. There have been no US studies of vaping cannabis and lung cancer. I'm not aware of any studies world wide. Vaping is too new to have done the science.

Vaping and smoking THC are likely to be effective in combating lung cancer if he can inhale. Vaping is easier on the lungs but it still feels a bit like smoking. Your father-in-law might enjoy smoking or vaping. I'd ask him which he'd prefer based upon whether smoking or vaping will be allowed / possible where he spends his days. Smoking Cannabis doesn't cause lung cancer, it prevents and may help cure lung cancer.

My preferred order of vapes.
#1 Dry herb vapes that fill ballons with vapor (volcano)
#2 Other Dry herb vapes - less convenient - less expensive - more portable.
#3 all other vapes - varying quality, safety, and effectiveness

4.) The great suppository debate

Methods of administration is another topic I'd like to feel clearer about. I have read very conflicting arguments regarding suppostories with one side arguing that it dramatically increases bio-availability and others claiming that the cannabinoids are unable to be absorbed into the blood stream in this way. Just wondered if you'd come across any convincing studies/arguments either way.

Increasing bioavailability and bypassing the bloodstream may be compatible claims.
There are other pathways besides the bloodstream (lymphatic, cerebral spinal)
Not being able to detect THC and CBD in the blood may mean that the cannabinoids are attaching to receptors before maing a full lap around the bloodstream.

The bottom line is effectiveness - anecdotal evidence suggests anal suppository may be the most widely effective way to administer large doses. I suggest most people would be wise to chose anal suppositories because they seem to work.

5.) THC/CBD percentages

Finally I have a question about THC and CBD percentage and content. We have a high THC oil made from a lemon haze strain with 24%THC and we have a 1:1 THC/CBD made from a critical mass strain with about 14% CBD. From my reading I understand that a strain with over 20% THC is considered to be high yet I also keep reading that the CCO should have 80% THC to be effective. Am I getting confused here between the strength of the strain and the strength of the CCO? What I mean is, will a strain with over 20%THC make a CCO with a higher THC profile or will the percentage of the THC in the strain be the same as the percentage in the CCO? Be good to know if I have the right amount of THC otherwise I will have to source more.

I'd say the 24% THC is a measure/guess of the THC in the Lemon Haze strain BEFORE the oil was made. The percentage of THC in the oil will be stronger than the percentage of THC in the plant . It sounds like they didn't test the oil - that doesn't mean it's bad. If it's the real thing, it's probably 60-80%.

The most important thing is to know that it contains lots of THC. If he got high off a small amount that's a good test of the oil in that there was THC present. The second most important thing to know is if it contain harmful residuals (butane, denatured/poisoned alcohol.) It's hard to know you are getting good clean oil with knowing and trusting the manufacturing process - one of the reasons many people grow and make their own.

6.) Ultrasonic cleaners?

I have also read that an ultrasonic cleaner can be used to aid in liposomal encapsulation. Just wondered if anybody had any thoughts on whether this works, and would be able to explain the science behind using an ultrasonic cleaner.

I'll take a wild stab at an answer and say you can think of an ultrasonic cleaner as a really small, really fast shaking mixer. If shaking at near the molecular level is good, an ultrasonic cleaner will help.

I think that's it for now! I appreciate that this is a long list but anything you can do to shed some light on my questions would be really appreciated. I have kind of taken on responsibility for administering the oil for my father-in-law and I don't want to f*** this up.

Thanks for reading

G

Be assured you are doing the right thinks and it is helping. You aren't responsible for the cure. If you take a reasonable effective approach to delivering cannabanoids to his body. It's up to the cannabinoids to give that old immune system a good talking to, to give the Endocannabinoid system of healing some solid support, and to generally encourage your father-in-law to heal.


As CCSc says, you have this under control. The healing has started. You may not see it yet, but I have confidence it's happening.

 

[SweetSue]

Sorry to keep you waiting G. Let's see what I can help you with.

Before we begin, let's be honest and up front here. No one here, myself included, is a canna med professional. We're more citizen scientist and holistic-in-training than anything else. What we share is a joint effort by the community, in a constant state of refinement. As Cajun mentioned in that post you shared, we're all learning as we go. Anyone who professes otherwise in this field should be looked at with caution. Cannabis is too new to all of us as a healing modality.

But there are some patterns emerging, and that we can work from.

Greetings from the UK.

I have been reading many of your posts with interest, as I am currently helping to care for my father-in-law, who has a neuroendocrine tumour in his lung with mets to liver and lymph nodes. This is my first post on the forum, so I am not sure if this is the right place to post up some of my queries regarding methods of delivery, bio-availability, and THC/CBD profiles but I'll give it a go. If I am in the wrong place, I'd appreciate it if you can point me in the right direction!

1.) Liposomal Encapsulation

Firstly, I have a quick question about bioavailability. Obviously we want to make sure that we are getting as many cannabinoids into the system without being quickly metabolised quickly by the liver. I have been reading up on liposomal encapsulation, and came across a method on the kitty smiles badkat cannapharm site. I have been making caps and suppositories following that guide. Here's the link BadKat's CannaPharm - Medical Cannabis Oil

From comparing the badkats method to the guide to liposomal encapsulation posted on this thread, I see some differences between the amount of heating applied to the lecithin, CCO and carrier oil. There is also some difference in your methods between either freezing or refridgerating the mixture. Just wondered if you have any thoughts on this as to which method has the most merit?

I've looked over BadKat's posts, and I see the similarities, and the very basic differences. We don't freeze, we refrigerate. Same results, faster recovery time to get to room temp if you don't freeze. We use liquid sunflower lecithin, for additional nutritional benefits. Our biobomb formulations were developed to keep additions at a minimum, but still keep cannabinoid counts close to where we wanted them.

She recommends coconut oil, and if you're treating liver disease, or your intent is recreational, we also recommend this choice. Medium-chained fatty acids are a fast-track to the liver. If you're treating disease with coconut oil, methods of competitive inhibition become even more important.

Olive oil is our preferred choice for most medicinal purposes. Long-chained fatty acids avoid the First-Pass by being absorbed into the lymphatic system. More time gained for seeking out cells in need of signal modification. Olive oil will also hold a higher concentration of cannabinoids in suspension than coconut oil, and it's also an important nutrient, as is coconut oil.

2.) Vaping for lung cancer?

I am also interested in knowing more about whether vaping a CCO tincture would be effective for a lung cancer patient and whether any potential benefits also come with potential harms?

Vaping is recommended as part of the treatment for lung cancer. There are no dangers that I've heard of to be concerned with, excepting any lung sensitivity the patient may have, as in vaping making the patient cough uncontrollably. In such a case vaping would be contraindicated.

3.) Different types of Carrier oils

Another issue that I am interested in trying to shed some light on is which carrier oils work best. I have read that Medium chain fatty acids are good for the liver whereas longer chain fatty acids go to the lymphatic system. Is this correct in your understanding?

Already answered above.

4.) The great suppository debate

Methods of administration is another topic I'd like to feel clearer about. I have read very conflicting arguments regarding suppostories with one side arguing that it dramatically increases bio-availability and others claiming that the cannabinoids are unable to be absorbed into the blood stream in this way. Just wondered if you'd come across any convincing studies/arguments either way.

The studies that would answer this question are being held up by our federal govenment's stubborn refusal to remove cannabis from the schedule. This is one of those areas that comes steeped in controversy. What we can share here is that we've had members use suppositories as the major pathway of administration and they've successfully gotten their cancer into remission. Cajun did it twice, after having the cancer return when he neglected his own regimen. After adjusting his awareness and returning to the regimen he once again gained the upper hand.

Suppositories with canna meds are both embraced and vilified by practicing physicians, and one-by-one they've been forced to admit that we may not understand the mechanisms at play, but there are a growing number of patients using suppositories successfully. They allow you to get the cannabinoid numbers up higher without the concerns of uncomfortable euphoria.

I actually like the multi-faceted approach you've chosen. I'm a big fan of diversity in administration. Come in from multiple directions.

5.) THC/CBD percentages

Finally I have a question about THC and CBD percentage and content. We have a high THC oil made from a lemon haze strain with 24%THC and we have a 1:1 THC/CBD made from a critical mass strain with about 14% CBD. From my reading I understand that a strain with over 20% THC is considered to be high yet I also keep reading that the CCO should have 80% THC to be effective. Am I getting confused here between the strength of the strain and the strength of the CCO? What I mean is, will a strain with over 20%THC make a CCO with a higher THC profile or will the percentage of the THC in the strain be the same as the percentage in the CCO? Be good to know if I have the right amount of THC otherwise I will have to source more.

When you're talking about the THC or CBD values of a plant you're speaking about the amount of cannabinoids you'd find in a gram of dried material, typically flowers. When you make a concentrated oil you're talking about the concentrated number of cannabinoids in a gram of that oil. You'll find a lot more cannabinoids per gram in CCO than you will in dried flowers.

It's all a matter of concentrations. In a gram of CCO with 80% THC you'll have 800 mg of THC. A gram of flowers with 20% THC will contain 200 mg of THC.

Those patterns I spoke of earlier, one of them is to treat lung cancer with a 4:1 THC:CBD ratio. Cajun once shared with us that lung cancer was one of those that had responded positively to suppository administration.

6.) Ultrasonic cleaners?

I have also read that an ultrasonic cleaner can be used to aid in liposomal encapsulation. Just wondered if anybody had any thoughts on whether this works, and would be able to explain the science behind using an ultrasonic cleaner.

The ultrasonic cleaner is a personal call. Cajun once told me not to be concerned with it, but then right before he dropped out of sight he insinuated it would be of value.

My personal opinion is that it's another piece of equipment that isn't as necessary as you'd like to think. Cannabinoid therapies are very basic things, and the less you can get away with adding the better. I read a study once by a citizen scientist who used an ultrasonic for the Vit C process that made it so famous, and when he had the results tested there were no liposomes created. Save your money.

I think that's it for now! I appreciate that this is a long list but anything you can do to shed some light on my questions would be really appreciated. I have kind of taken on responsibility for administering the oil for my father-in-law and I don't want to f*** this up.

Thanks for reading

G

You've come to us well-prepared. I like your chances of not f***ing this up.

Sorry to add another post to the thread before getting a response back on my first one, but I'd also like some advice on dose management if possible.

No need to worry about this. We're here to help you find answers.

From what I have read, we should be aiming to build up to a gram a day within 60 days. We are just starting our 4th week of treatment with my father-in-law and we have him up to between 0.6-0.7g a day. We are hoping to get up to the 1 gram mark this week. Below is a breakdown of his current dosing regime; just wondering if Sue or anyone else on here has the time to have a quick look and give me some feedback.

The gram-a-day protocol was developed before we had the hard data coming in from practicing clinics and dispensaries. Turns out many cancers respond positively to a much lower dose, more realistically around the 300mg mark.

Morning (after breakfast) oral ingestion of 50mg capsule of high THC oil (2:1 ratio) mixed with lecithin and coconut oil

Mid morning (after bath or shower ) suppository of 250mg high THC oil mixed with lecithin and coco butter

Afternoon oral ingestion of 200mg capsule (1:1 THC/CBD)

After dinner: oral ingestion of 200mg capsule (1:1 THC/CBD)

We also have some high CBD oil (2:1) ratio that I haven't really worked in to his programme yet (I've been told that this may be useful for tacking but don't have any hard info myself)

My father-in-law is able to handle the 50mg high THC caps pretty easy now. I think they come from a lemon haze strain which has a mix of indica and sativa; anyways, they seem to pep him up when he takes then. The 1:1 200mg really hits him hard though (dizziness, nausea, lack of balance) and when I once tried a 200mg high THC cap, he was high as a kite for a few hours.

I am just thinking about the best ways to increase the dosage up to a gram a day. For example, should I give him another strong THC dose as a suppository, or add in a few smaller 50MG caps in his routine. I am also not sure about how best to use the high CBD oil effectively.

You control euphoria by either splitting the THC dose into smaller volumes and delivering it through multiple doses throughout the day by whatever method you choose, or by balancing the THC dose with higher doses of CBD. You can also eliminate euphoria by using suppositories. In your father-in-law's case I'd recommend multiple doses - I'd be shooting for 4-5 daily doses - and suppositories. You're mixed bag approach is probably the smartest way to come at this.

You'd be wise to stick to the maximum 50 mg THC dose by mouth and get the rest of the dose in by suppository. You're already at a pretty high level. I'd feel comfortable staying at this dose until you have some test results that'll give you some idea of the efficacy of the regimen.

There's an interesting practice picking up speed to deliver the THC doses and the CBD doses at seperate times, at least two hours apart from each other. In this way there been some reduction in dose volumes with no loss in effectiveness. It's worth considering. I have no hard data on the effectiveness of this method, but I have absolute faith in Aunt Zelda's organization, the chief proponent of this dosing method.

Ultimately, I am searching for the holy grail of maximum bio-availability so my thinking is to use a combination of oral/sublingual/recta routes so I cover all bases. The cancer is a neuroendocrine tumour in his lung with mets to lymph nodes and liver; I don't have much knowledge about the relationship between different types of cancer and different CCO dosing guidelines, so any help in this department would also be super helpful.

Thank you for taking the time to read.

Best wishes to you all

G x

Yeah.... the magic bullet. Ah, that it was that easy, eh? We've developed this wonderfully holistic approach of encouraging you to create a healthier Endocannabinoid system, creating an inner atmospher saturated with joy, and finding ways to get the greatest potential out of our harvests when we process them into medications.

Along that vein, I encourage you to check out our work on Fresh Harvest infused Oil. It's an olive oil infusion that has the potential to rival CCO in medicinal quality. Just another pathway to the goal of re-establishing homeostasis.

Creating CCO destroys the terpenes, there's no way around that. It's one of many points where I had problems with BadKat. We don't create liposomal encapsulation, and we don't preserve terpenes with traditionally produced CCO. The FHO holds onto more terpenes and flavonoids, as well as incorporating chlorophyll into the formula. With FHO we find a deeper synergistic effect on the body. It's difficult to explain, but it's provocative enough that we've become obsessed with refining the process, finding ways to make it as easy to produce as possible.

Looking back I just caught that he has mets to the liver. That would call for the coconut oil, at least until the liver concerns are put to rest. Hmmmm..... He'd benefit from both carrier oils, but the liver feels like the one that would benefit from the suppositories. Insert deeply, and work up the dose slowly to give him time to build tolerances.

The standard method of dosing is to start sub-therapeutically, build up to 4-5 doses a day and increase the cannabinoid load in the doses until the patient feels unable to adjust comfortably. Then you drop back one step and stay there until you have good reason to either increase or decrease the dose. Consider 2 suppository doses made with coconut oil as the carrier (intended for the liver tumor cells, so inserted deeply) and the rest of the daily dose orally, either sublingual or ingested, no more than 50 mg of THC each.

As soon as the liver stabilized I'd switch to olive oil as the carrier oil.

I'd give consideration to the BioBomb formulations. Less oil used to greater effect. The ones you're producing now are very close to what we've created, so no pressure there. Cannabinoids heal. There are many ways to make that healing commence.

Whew! I hope I got all of that right. If there are any mistakes we can sort them out.

 

[gagsy77]

Hi SweetSue, I really can't thank you enough for taking the time to provide such a considered response to my questions. It makes me feel a lot less stressed to know that even seasoned pros like yourself appreciate that when it comes to medicating with cannabinoids we don't have all the answers, and there will always be different schools of thought as to the efficacy of different methods.

I have to say that the points you raised against badkats method seem logical to me, as I felt that the extra heating and freezing of the CCO added too many processes to a substance that has already gone through quite an extreme process in the first place. I am going to have a go at making some biobombs following your guide today. Will let you know how I get on!

I will certainly add the olive oil carrier idea to my list of weapons. I am thinking of making two different types of suppository: one with olive oil intended for insertion to bypass the liver, and then one with coconut oil to be inserted further in to hit the liver directly.

I may do a little experiment with the ultrasonic cleaner a go (just because we actually have access to one because my father-in-law uses them for his jewelry business!). Will let you know if I notice any differences in effects and time it takes to hit.

I am really glad to get some positive responses from yourself and Radogast regarding vaping. Since being diagnosed, my father-in-law has given up smoking cigarettes, so I think it may give him some pleasure to vape. Even though smoking was what probably got him into this mess in the first place. Oh, the irony!

Sorry to be a pain in the posterior, but just have a couple (ok, 4) of real quick questions below. I'm sure you're a busy lady, so don't worry if you don't get time to answer right away!

1.) Are there any difficulties with using olive oil and coconut oil as suppositories? So far I have been using coco butter, as it stays quite firm, but will the olive and coconut oil freeze ok and not melt too quickly before they've had the chance to get to where they should be going?

2.) I came across this link for a cannabis inhaler. Vapen Clear: Meet The World’s First Cannabis Inhaler just wondered if you or anyone on the forum had any thoughts on this product.

3.) Finally, we have some friends in San Jose, California. They live close to a dispensary called the Elemental Wellness Center. Elemental Medical Marijuana Dispensary, San Jose CA | Elemental We were thinking of running the customs gauntlet and getting them to send us some vape pens. Just wondering if you have the time to have a quick look at their site and recommend a suitable product?

4.) When it comes to oral sublingual dosing, do you recommend mixing with a carrier oil or just tacking on gums and under tongue?

Ok, that's enough hassling you for now. I honestly can't express what it means to have you take time out of your day to answer my questions. To know there are people out there who have trodden the path we are about to go down gives me hope for the future.

Best wishes form your British cousins this side of the pond.

G

 

[gagsy77]

Hi SweetSue, I really can't thank you enough for taking the time to provide such a considered response to my questions. It makes me feel a lot less stressed to know that even seasoned pros like yourself appreciate that when it comes to medicating with cannabinoids we don't have all the answers, and there will always be different schools of thought as to the efficacy of different methods.

I have to say that the points you raised against badkats method seem logical to me, as I felt that the extra heating and freezing of the CCO added too many processes to a substance that has already gone through quite an extreme process in the first place. I am going to have a go at making some biobombs following your guide today. Will let you know how I get on!

I will certainly add the olive oil carrier idea to my list of weapons. I am thinking of making two different types of suppository: one with olive oil intended for insertion to bypass the liver, and then one with coconut oil to be inserted further in to hit the liver directly.

I may do a little experiment with the ultrasonic cleaner a go (just because we actually have access to one because my father-in-law uses them for his jewelry business!). Will let you know if I notice any differences in effects and time it takes to hit.

I am really glad to get some positive responses from yourself and Radogast regarding vaping. Since being diagnosed, my father-in-law has given up smoking cigarettes, so I think it may give him some pleasure to vape. Even though smoking was what probably got him into this mess in the first place. Oh, the irony!

Sorry to be a pain in the posterior, but just have a couple (ok, 4) of real quick questions below. I'm sure you're a busy lady, so don't worry if you don't get time to answer right away!

1.) Are there any difficulties with using olive oil and coconut oil as suppositories? So far I have been using coco butter, as it stays quite firm, but will the olive and coconut oil freeze ok and not melt too quickly before they've had the chance to get to where they should be going?

2.) I came across this link for a cannabis inhaler. Vapen Clear: Meet The World’s First Cannabis Inhaler just wondered if you or anyone on the forum had any thoughts on this product.

3.) Finally, we have some friends in San Jose, California. They live close to a dispensary called the Elemental Wellness Center. Elemental Medical Marijuana Dispensary, San Jose CA | Elemental We were thinking of running the customs gauntlet and getting them to send us some vape pens. Just wondering if you have the time to have a quick look at their site and recommend a suitable product?

4.) When it comes to oral sublingual dosing, do you recommend mixing with a carrier oil or just tacking on gums and under tongue?

Ok, that's enough hassling you for now. I honestly can't express what it means to have you take time out of your day to answer my questions. To know there are people out there who have trodden the path we are about to go down gives me hope for the future.

Best wishes form your British cousins this side of the pond.

G

 

[gagsy77]

Hi Radogast,

Thank you so much for your reply. It's good to know that I am on the right track, and just needing a little help to get to where I need to be. I have taken on board yours and SweetSue's comments, and have posted a more detailed response at the bottom of this thread. If you have any thoughts on the questions I put up in that post, I'd be interested to hear them. No rush though. I appreciate that everyone has their daily grind to contend with.

All the best

G

 

[SweetSue]

Hi SweetSue, I really can't thank you enough for taking the time to provide such a considered response to my questions. It makes me feel a lot less stressed to know that even seasoned pros like yourself appreciate that when it comes to medicating with cannabinoids we don't have all the answers, and there will always be different schools of thought as to the efficacy of different methods.

I have to say that the points you raised against badkats method seem logical to me, as I felt that the extra heating and freezing of the CCO added too many processes to a substance that has already gone through quite an extreme process in the first place. I am going to have a go at making some biobombs following your guide today. Will let you know how I get on!

I will certainly add the olive oil carrier idea to my list of weapons. I am thinking of making two different types of suppository: one with olive oil intended for insertion to bypass the liver, and then one with coconut oil to be inserted further in to hit the liver directly.

I may do a little experiment with the ultrasonic cleaner a go (just because we actually have access to one because my father-in-law uses them for his jewelry business!). Will let you know if I notice any differences in effects and time it takes to hit.

I am really glad to get some positive responses from yourself and Radogast regarding vaping. Since being diagnosed, my father-in-law has given up smoking cigarettes, so I think it may give him some pleasure to vape. Even though smoking was what probably got him into this mess in the first place. Oh, the irony!

Sorry to be a pain in the posterior, but just have a couple (ok, 4) of real quick questions below. I'm sure you're a busy lady, so don't worry if you don't get time to answer right away!

1.) Are there any difficulties with using olive oil and coconut oil as suppositories? So far I have been using coco butter, as it stays quite firm, but will the olive and coconut oil freeze ok and not melt too quickly before they've had the chance to get to where they should be going?

2.) I came across this link for a cannabis inhaler. Vapen Clear: Meet The World’s First Cannabis Inhaler just wondered if you or anyone on the forum had any thoughts on this product.

3.) Finally, we have some friends in San Jose, California. They live close to a dispensary called the Elemental Wellness Center. Elemental Medical Marijuana Dispensary, San Jose CA | Elemental We were thinking of running the customs gauntlet and getting them to send us some vape pens. Just wondering if you have the time to have a quick look at their site and recommend a suitable product?

4.) When it comes to oral sublingual dosing, do you recommend mixing with a carrier oil or just tacking on gums and under tongue?

Ok, that's enough hassling you for now. I honestly can't express what it means to have you take time out of your day to answer my questions. To know there are people out there who have trodden the path we are about to go down gives me hope for the future.

Best wishes form your British cousins this side of the pond.

G

Just so you know, we get a lot of double posts sometimes, and you have 420 minutes to edit them away. Most of us simply leave a " Double post."

1. Olive oil won't hold its shape as a suppository, so we simply use the size 00 capsules and insert them as suppositories. It works amazingly well, and you might want to explore this for your coconut oil ones too. They're so easy to administer. Kingston Rabbi has a thread with a video showing just how easy they are to use on the go. How to take a CCO capsule suppository

The capsules can be frozen and sliced down for smaller doses too.

I wanted to suggest you try both carrier oils as suppositories, but I was concerned I was overwhelming you. I'm glad to hear this was your thought as well. I'd recommend the THC dose inserted deeply be administered at bedtime.

2. Vaporizers are the future of cannabinoid medicines. If you have the opportunity and can use your own oils, I'd be more excited about it. There's not the control you'll have with your own productions, and that can be a concern, but we have to have a certain amount of trust, don't we? In the case of your father-in-law this would be particularly useful. The absorbtion rate would be incredible, wouldn't you think?

3. Vape pens...... Here's my concern. The oil used in the pens is mixed with solvents that are safe to ingest, but not so safe to breathe into the lungs, you catch my drift? I'd be cautious about this administration method for someone already taxed with lung cancer. I'd recommend a vaporizer for flowers, or one for concentrates. I have a lovely Vapor Brothers pen that I use when I have access to wax. That type of pen would be acceptable.

4. I always recommend using a carrier oil. It makes it easier for the cannabinoids to be absorbed, regardless of administration method, with the exception of smoking or vaping, of course. Cajun recommended the BioBomb formulation for tacking as well.

Please, don't feel you're taking too much of our time. We'll make ourselves available to you as long as you need, and we'll be here for the questions that come up along the way. We understand how overwhelming it can be. Our job is to soothe so you can feel more confident.

You came to us much better informed than the typical frantic visitor. That makes this exchange a tad more delightful to participate in.

 

[SweetSue]

It's telling, and just a little scary, to be considered an authority in cannabinoid therapies after a mere two years of intense study and assisting members. I'll breathe more freely when the rest of the medical establishment starts paying closer attention to the fact that we all have an ECS and cannabinoids are first-line responders, not just end-of-life palliative care. *sigh*

 

[gagsy77]

Hey, thanks for the quick response. I'd avoided using the gel caps as suppository as I'd read that they took too long to breakdown, though thinking about it I guess it doesn't matter how long they take to breakdown as long as they eventually do. Perhaps the criticism of gel caps taking too long where from recreational users looking to plug their favourite substances! The link you shared from Kingston Rabbi seems to suggests that it's a pretty effective method so I will give it a go today and report back!

Thanks for the pointers on vaping. I'll do my homework before adding any potential vaping to my father-in-law's protocol. I guess the best option would be to find some quality buds and make my own tinctures. It's legal to but seeds here in the UK but it's illegal to germinate and grow the seeds into plants. Crazy, right! Maybe I'll have to comandeer a space in my father-in-law's green house and get growing!



Apologies for the double post. School boy - or Rookie, as you say in the States - error!

G