All coco created equal?

[Why Doe]

I'm wanting my next grow to be in coco coir as I've read you can get better hauls. But I don't really know anything about it, so here are my questions.

-What is it exactly?
-Why is it better then soil?
-What kind of brand should I get?
-Where can I buy it online?
-Is it like soil where it already has tons of nutrients to start off with or is it just a base that I have to add everything to myself?

Thinking about getting this stuff but it almost seems like it's just a really good potting soil, what's the difference??

SunGro Horticulture SUGRADV3.0 3-Cubic Feet SunGro Horticulture Advanced 4 Sunshine Mix for Plants

 

[Mayne]

tell ya something right now man, get the sht that is allllll ready rinsed, conditioned, broke up, and ready to roll from bag, thats for freakin sure. I JJJJUSSSTTTT sat down from doing a rinse job for 1 more. SMH, takes an hour for like 2 gallons of medium.

I was justt cussing about it, and said, F this, next time, predone sht, lol...

 

[Why Doe]

Right on good tip!

 

[NunyaBis]

Coco coir is the fibrous husk of a coconut. That brown hairy stuff that covers the coconut. There's actually a lot more of it on an actual coconut that what you might think. It ends up looking a lot like dirt though, albeit with brown hair-like fibers in it.

As for why it's "better" than soil - Coco is basically hydro without the hydro. You get hydro results but you have a stable growing media like soil. With fabric pots it's pretty much impossible to overwater your plants unless you let them just sit in your runoff. It also dries out SUPER fast (depending on your RH of course), so keep that in mind. You're going to be watering at least once a day, once you're out of the seedling stage.

It also doesn't have quite as many problems as soil or hydro, it's much more forgiving, not as susceptible to certain issues like root rot in hydro or certain pests like soil. It's by no means perfect though, and some problems that only affect either soil or hydro might both pop up in coco.

Now, IS it better than soil? Eh... probably, for indoor grows. Honestly though, I've found myself wishing I had gone DWC Hydro. I think I screwed myself by making the decision to hand water my plants too. It's a serious pain in the ass compared to just filling up a reservoir once a week and maybe topping it off if needed.

The brand isn't really important as much as the whole "pre-rinsed" part. Canna is supposedly good stuff, but I believe it's more expensive too. As for where to buy it, I'd recommend a hydro-store rather than online if possible, because the shipping is probably going to cost more than the actual coco will if you buy it in loose bag form. It's not that heavy, but the bags are bulky. Try amazon or something I guess, or see if any hydroponic specific websites have any for sale with reasonable shipping would be my advice.

To answer your fifth bullet point question : Everything is added by you

Having nearly completed a grow in coco, I can share the following - Buy a crapload of Cal/Mag. Coco is a neutral media, it doesn't have anything in it and it's pH neutral (or it should be - some coco needs to be rinsed before you use it, not just the bricks either), but it seems coco does something weird to Magnesium specifically, it like bonds to it, or doesn't bond to it, or some crap and doesn't get absorbed by the plants as well as it could. I can't remember the exact terminology I read about, but I can say that even with coco-specific nutes (H&G specifically) I had mag deficiency issues until I REALLY loaded up the cal/mag in my feeds.

It's also ecologically friendly, if you're concerned about that sort of thing.

 

[Why Doe]

Thanks so much for all that information! Not knowing when to give nutrients is my biggest fear of doing the switch. What nutes do you recommend for coco or does it matter? I currently have the fox farm trio, not that great I know, and advanced nutrients cal mag.

 

[Killerbudz]

With coco you will feed nutrients every feed since the coco doesn't have any nutrients. You can skip nutes the first week or two but after that nutes with every feed. Advanced nutrients makes a ph perfect version that makes life simple in coco. Keeping the ph within a certain range is vital or you will see nutrient lockout.

 

[Why Doe]

I guess I'll start looking for a pre rinsed coco

 

[Killerbudz]

I guess I'll start looking for a pre rinsed coco

Most reputable coco brands will be pre rinsed. You can grab a brick of it then pre charge the coco with cal mag and a light nutrient solution.

 

[NunyaBis]

That's a question for a far more experienced grower than I.

I only have experience with the House & Garden Coco stuff. I'd say it's good stuff, since the plants grew and all, expensive as hell mind you, but what I liked about it is that you don't use as much. You might be spending like $200-$300 for the A and B nutrient set, compared to like $100-$150 for another brand, but you're using like half the dose / 3/4 the dose per gallon than the cheaper stuff is, so it evens out, mostly. By the way, I only used about 3/8 of my 20L A and B nutrients, but practically all of the additives / supplements, which I'm going to assume is where they make most of their money. They're seriously expensive.

I'd have to compare it to several brands in a few grows to really feel I was qualified to give actual advice though.

That said, based on all the research I did, it seems Advanced Nutrients, Canna, and H&G are considered the top tier companies, with H&G apparently being the "superior" one by a bit. A bunch of people like the General Hydroponics lineup too.

As is often the case with this kind of thing, it's probably going to come down to how much you want to spend. If you're able to afford it, the H&G / Canna stuff is probably your best bet. AN would probably be slightly behind them, and then GH, but that doesn't mean the AN / GH stuff isn't good.

 

[Mayne]

I got AN on the way, was using FF trio. I need simplicity,lol..

 

[NunyaBis]

Lol, it's not THAT bad. Once you know how much pH up/down you usually have to add, it's pretty much automatic, you almost don't need your tester once you get the hang of it. It IS another step though, so I can totally relate / understand.

Of course I can also recall a few instances that were a total pain in the ass. I'd add like half a tablespoon of pH down, get the "water" to 5.6 and then have to add some pH up, just a tiny bit though, to make it reach 5.8, so I put in a drop, literally one drop, and the damn pH would shoot back up to 6.5 or something. Nothing like see-sawing around with that crap for 5 minutes.

 

[Why Doe]

But advanced nutrients makes a ph perfect version as stated above?

 

[TorturedSoul]

As for why it's "better" than soil - Coco is basically hydro without the hydro.

In that regard, I look at it as hydroponic medium. Seems like it can hold onto a good bit of water, to me. But it also provides for a little aeration. Perlite is more for drainage and aeration than water-holding (which it doesn't). Vermiculite is for water-holding (IMHO, at least). I'm thinking about throwing two or three clones into two-liter pop bottles, "hempy style," and will probably use a mixture of coco and perlite (with more perlite than coco, maybe as much as 70% perlite). I used to do something like that with perlite and vermiculite, but the pH of vermiculite is not what I'm looking for, and I do not consider the product to be environmentally friendly; vermiculite comes from large commercial mines in countries such as Russia, South Africa, China, and Brazil. Coco coir comes from... coconuts.

Honestly though, I've found myself wishing I had gone DWC Hydro.

I have always been a proponent of DWC. It's simple and effective.

I think I screwed myself by making the decision to hand water my plants too. It's a serious pain in the ass compared to just filling up a reservoir once a week and maybe topping it off if needed.

Lol. When I ran DWC, I used ~23-gallon Rubbermaid totes. I can remember plenty of hot days later in flower with large plants where I'd dump in, IDK, seven gallons (a big healthy root system takes up a lot of volume) before leaving for work - only to return late that night to discover that the plants had transpired pretty much everything that I'd poured in that morning, lol. Obviously, small plants - and a cooler environment - would have decreased that water usage considerably. But I wouldn't skimp on the reservoir size with DWC.

The brand isn't really important as much as the whole "pre-rinsed" part. Canna is supposedly good stuff, but I believe it's more expensive too. As for where to buy it, I'd recommend a hydro-store rather than online if possible, because the shipping is probably going to cost more than the actual coco will if you buy it in loose bag form. It's not that heavy, but the bags are bulky. Try amazon or something I guess, or see if any hydroponic specific websites have any for sale with reasonable shipping would be my advice.

"Regular" (non-cannabis) plant nurseries and greenhouses often sell coco coir blocks, too. The stuff around here is generic (unlabeled) - you just get the block, no package. I would consider such a product to be unrinsed, or minimally so. And I would also consider it to be "untreated." They say that most coco coir products are rinsed, but IDK.

The stuff, naturally, contains a lot of sodium. That is to be expected, considering the environments that coconut trees grow in. It also contains a lot of potassium. Now... I am NOT an expert when it comes to coco (far from it, in fact). But I have been reading a little and it looks like people pre-treat the stuff by soaking it in a solution of calcium nitrate, maybe a couple of times. The calcium replaces the salts that are naturally present, IIRC. I'm not real sure exactly, lol (need to do more reading). But I have been told that coco coir can "hold" calcium that's fed to one's plants if it is not properly pre-treated. And I picked up a fairly good-sized bag of calcium nitrate at the same nursery I got the coco coir block from, and it was less than ten dollars. In other words, pre-treating it yourself isn't a major expense. I'll probably throw in some Epsom salt, too, for the magnesium (Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate).

Buy a crapload of Cal/Mag.

IDK if this is truly needed, or if it gets used because the media wasn't properly pre-treated.

it seems coco does something weird to Magnesium specifically, it like bonds to it, or doesn't bond to it, or some crap and doesn't get absorbed by the plants as well as it could. I can't remember the exact terminology I read about, but I can say that even with coco-specific nutes (H&G specifically) I had mag deficiency issues until I REALLY loaded up the cal/mag in my feeds.

There's an article (that I keep forgetting to read) titled " Buffering Up: Adjusting the Cation Exchange Capacity in Coco Growing Media." Actually, there's a thread here by that name with a link to the article in the first post. IDK if the link will remain forever, since it's to AN's "captive" magazine. But here's the thread:
Buffering Up: Adjusting the Cation Exchange Capacity in Coco Growing Media

 

[NunyaBis]

They do, yes. They have a "base" level "Sensi" one and an "advanced" "Connoisseur" one, both using their pH perfect thing.

Coco Base Nutrients Tribe | Coco Coir Hydroponics Nutrients | Advanced Nutrients

They've also got a coco-specific "bud enhancer" apparently.

Coco Bigger Buds Tribe | Coco Bloom Booster | Advanced Nutrients

 

[Killerbudz]

Getting your feed to the correct ph won't be a issue. Keeping it there is another story. After sitting your feed will have ph swings increasing over time. So getting nutes that need no adjustment will make life easier.