I'm a photo guy but I'm high in the Rockies, dont get much of a outdoor season so autos for me outdoors. Also I like photos so I can clone n keep. I have cuts of plants from 10 years ago.
Auto vs photo?
- Thread starter GIjose
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- #22
GIjose
Well-Known Member
damn! How big is ur grow room? If you dont mind me askin..
I grow in coco/perlite. It costs about $35 CDN for Canna Coco Bricks, and the perlite to make 60l. It is re-useable. Mine is in its seventh grow.
I grow in a 2' X 4' (60cm X 120cm) tent, and a 40" X 40" (100cm X 100cm) tent. You can see them in my journal. The link is in my signature block.
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- #25
GIjose
Well-Known Member
No tubs of water and water pumps?
Yup I do soilless as well. Reusable medium helps keep the cost per run down but you get comparable results to deep water culture. I personally think it's better than DWC and that's why I use it. I will say DTW can be the most water intensive depending on your irrigation schedule. But for the simplicity of it I will probably never change.
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- #27
GIjose
Well-Known Member
I have read through your recent Journal, my experiences with hydroponic was using tubs of solution and growing without any medium, just flowing water. I might have gotten confused as to the understanding of hydroponic system.
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- #28
GIjose
Well-Known Member
@TurboBucket system is the kind that I'm more familiar with seeing or should I say associate hydroponic with. his system is the kind that really intimidates me on wanting to try growing in
Remystemple
Well-Known Member
I bought the bucket net pot things and then got scared of water temps and stuff and never used them lol. but i'm in my first hempy grow and probably won't do anything else going forward. the plants are huge and if i'm feeling tired or sore, i can skip a day of feeding. it's actually a bit ridiculous, it's 7 white widows in 5 gallon hempy's with a screen of green. gonna be scary
It shouldn't. Mine is easy peasy. Just like hand watering without all the work. I fill the rez every day or every other day depending on how many tents are running and the pump on a timer gives them water when I tell it to. They'll survive three or four days without the pump running so it's power outage proof. If the pump fails no big deal you have a few days to get one. Don't have to anything in the rez (waterfall or air pump) because it gets refilled frequently enough to prevent issues. Clean the rez once every 4-6 weeks no worries. Easy to flush if you ever need to, easy to balance rootzone hydration vs vegetation evaporation. (More or less cycles). No worry of salt/mineral buildup your "mini flushing" everytime you water to run off. Easy to flush if you every screw up the nutrient solution. Nutrient solution is refreshed with every irrigation cycle so it's never sitting in depleted "soup" like dwc and ebb n flow are prone to. It can also be easily adapted to a full blown living soil grow just reduce the irrigation frequency/length to avoid run off.
It really is perfect as far as I'm concerned. If I use a little more water so what I have more control and that's worth it to me.
It really is perfect as far as I'm concerned. If I use a little more water so what I have more control and that's worth it to me.
I have one small pump for automatic watering. It's on a timer. This allows me to leave home for as long as the nutrient solution lasts. I should add another to empty the drain trays.
I designed a four plant recirculating deep water culture(RDWC) system. It took 100l to fill, and who knows what the top ups would have been. My well would not support it, as the solution needs to be changed weekly. Water for the plants needed to come from my RO, as the arsenic level is more than 10X that allowed. That meant at least 400l or about 100gal per week from the well.
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- #32
GIjose
Well-Known Member
damn brother it looks like you got that down to a science. if you don't mind me asking how much did you invest in piping and reservoirs and newts not having to worry about blackouts would be an awesome thing here in Cali. LOL I don't know it just seems very daunting to me. I've grown in soil as a kid with vegetables and things, now as an adult I'm growing Coco peat soil mix. I'll tell you what though when I saw my buddy setup it look like I was in a mad scientist lab, he had three and a half inch piping zigzagging on a wall with plants growing out of it he was a farmer in Washington.
My thread is all about everything I've done to my grow, and all the plants I've grown. It's literally a play by play of my three year journey to this point.
Just a few days ago I posted some pics of my newly updated plumbing to include a dump line so I can empty the rez into my drain line to my floor sump with the in rez pump. I don't like showing it off because it's a bit of a hack job but I'll make an exception for you.
Inside the tent
I too considered running RDWC and decided against it. Then I wanted recirculating aero. Drain to waste is cheap and easy comparatively speaking. If you can test and set your nutrient recipe once won't even need a pH/EC pen going forward. I literally add the same stuff to my rez every freaking day off every stage of the grow cycle after seedling (except Friday, they get compost/kelp tea and orca [liquid great white mychorrizae]) it only changes once a year. I'm on well water and the water is short on calcium in the winter so I add 2ml/gal of calmag+ and good to go.
I think I have like $200 bucks into both tents for plumbing. The drain trays were the most expensive. I use 3x3 flood trays, even if my drain plugged for some reason I can pump the whole rez into the two trays and not flood anything.
So the only leak points are the joints. I use 12 head manifolds from site sponsor Cannabis irrigation supply (I even paid retail for it haha) In fact I bought all the plumbing from there including the ball valves and inline filters.
The reservoir is a 32 gallon trash can from the local home improvement store I think with the lid it cost maybe $30. I use a 396 gph pump for both tents now (two twelve head manifolds with 6-9 ports open depending on the run) I have run it on a 264gph pump but the 1/2" fitting on the 396 is better. I do use a small waterfall pump running 15 minutes every hour to keep it all mixed up but you don't have to. (The teas kind of require it or they fall out of suspension)
I use inexpensive dual outlet minute programmable timers to control both my lights and the irrigation/waterfall pumps.
I currently use 30 gallons per day for 32sq ft of canopy from 12-18 plants but I could get away with 10 gallons/day if I really wanted to with only a minimal loss on overall yield and no noticable reduction in quality.
DTW is where it's at as far as I'm concerned haha
Just a few days ago I posted some pics of my newly updated plumbing to include a dump line so I can empty the rez into my drain line to my floor sump with the in rez pump. I don't like showing it off because it's a bit of a hack job but I'll make an exception for you.
I too considered running RDWC and decided against it. Then I wanted recirculating aero. Drain to waste is cheap and easy comparatively speaking. If you can test and set your nutrient recipe once won't even need a pH/EC pen going forward. I literally add the same stuff to my rez every freaking day off every stage of the grow cycle after seedling (except Friday, they get compost/kelp tea and orca [liquid great white mychorrizae]) it only changes once a year. I'm on well water and the water is short on calcium in the winter so I add 2ml/gal of calmag+ and good to go.
I think I have like $200 bucks into both tents for plumbing. The drain trays were the most expensive. I use 3x3 flood trays, even if my drain plugged for some reason I can pump the whole rez into the two trays and not flood anything.
So the only leak points are the joints. I use 12 head manifolds from site sponsor Cannabis irrigation supply (I even paid retail for it haha) In fact I bought all the plumbing from there including the ball valves and inline filters.
The reservoir is a 32 gallon trash can from the local home improvement store I think with the lid it cost maybe $30. I use a 396 gph pump for both tents now (two twelve head manifolds with 6-9 ports open depending on the run) I have run it on a 264gph pump but the 1/2" fitting on the 396 is better. I do use a small waterfall pump running 15 minutes every hour to keep it all mixed up but you don't have to. (The teas kind of require it or they fall out of suspension)
I use inexpensive dual outlet minute programmable timers to control both my lights and the irrigation/waterfall pumps.
I currently use 30 gallons per day for 32sq ft of canopy from 12-18 plants but I could get away with 10 gallons/day if I really wanted to with only a minimal loss on overall yield and no noticable reduction in quality.
DTW is where it's at as far as I'm concerned haha
Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
My only problem with autoflowers is they are way too finicky.
First 3 weeks is critical, you so much as fart near one and its stunted.
You have zero room for error.
If autoflowers were remotely as easy as photo-periods then I'd grow mostly nothing but autoflower.
If I had a huge grow space then they would be more acceptable because I could plant a crapload of them and even if half of them shit the pot I'd still have half a crapload and spend a month less to get it vs photo-period.
I suppose if you could find at least 2 cultivars that are rock solid great genetics, not as touchy, that you could pretty much guarantee would grow everytime then they'd work out ok.
I think I've found one of my two, so far it's the only auto I've tried that grows everytime and grows like Kudzu, like 4" a day type growing.
It's called Honey Peach CBD auto.
If you like CBD then it's very nice, great aroma and taste.
Very stable it seems for an autoflower.
I am currently growing a Blue Dreamatic and a Six Shooter autoflowers, just popped out of the ground this morning.
I'll see if one of these can be my number 2.
First 3 weeks is critical, you so much as fart near one and its stunted.
You have zero room for error.
If autoflowers were remotely as easy as photo-periods then I'd grow mostly nothing but autoflower.
If I had a huge grow space then they would be more acceptable because I could plant a crapload of them and even if half of them shit the pot I'd still have half a crapload and spend a month less to get it vs photo-period.
I suppose if you could find at least 2 cultivars that are rock solid great genetics, not as touchy, that you could pretty much guarantee would grow everytime then they'd work out ok.
I think I've found one of my two, so far it's the only auto I've tried that grows everytime and grows like Kudzu, like 4" a day type growing.
It's called Honey Peach CBD auto.
If you like CBD then it's very nice, great aroma and taste.
Very stable it seems for an autoflower.
I am currently growing a Blue Dreamatic and a Six Shooter autoflowers, just popped out of the ground this morning.
I'll see if one of these can be my number 2.
- Thread starter
- #35
GIjose
Well-Known Member
if I was to switch to a hydroponic system I'd have to save up for a
thank you for the shopping list! I am DIY guy, this looks challenging but fun to build. mark this down into years I'm going to hit you up on the how to use chemical mixes and what not. LOL..My thread is all about everything I've done to my grow, and all the plants I've grown. It's literally a play by play of my three year journey to this point.
Just a few days ago I posted some pics of my newly updated plumbing to include a dump line so I can empty the rez into my drain line to my floor sump with the in rez pump. I don't like showing it off because it's a bit of a hack job but I'll make an exception for you.
Inside the tent
I too considered running RDWC and decided against it. Then I wanted recirculating aero. Drain to waste is cheap and easy comparatively speaking. If you can test and set your nutrient recipe once won't even need a pH/EC pen going forward. I literally add the same stuff to my rez every freaking day off every stage of the grow cycle after seedling (except Friday, they get compost/kelp tea and orca [liquid great white mychorrizae]) it only changes once a year. I'm on well water and the water is short on calcium in the winter so I add 2ml/gal of calmag+ and good to go.
I think I have like $200 bucks into both tents for plumbing. The drain trays were the most expensive. I use 3x3 flood trays, even if my drain plugged for some reason I can pump the whole rez into the two trays and not flood anything.
So the only leak points are the joints. I use 12 head manifolds from site sponsor Cannabis irrigation supply (I even paid retail for it haha) In fact I bought all the plumbing from there including the ball valves and inline filters.
The reservoir is a 32 gallon trash can from the local home improvement store I think with the lid it cost maybe $30. I use a 396 gph pump for both tents now (two twelve head manifolds with 6-9 ports open depending on the run) I have run it on a 264gph pump but the 1/2" fitting on the 396 is better. I do use a small waterfall pump running 15 minutes every hour to keep it all mixed up but you don't have to. (The teas kind of require it or they fall out of suspension)
I use inexpensive dual outlet minute programmable timers to control both my lights and the irrigation/waterfall pumps.
I currently use 30 gallons per day for 32sq ft of canopy from 12-18 plants but I could get away with 10 gallons/day if I really wanted to with only a minimal loss on overall yield and no noticable reduction in quality.
DTW is where it's at as far as I'm concerned haha
Haha with Dyna-Gro it's about as simple as it gets. Like I said I feed everything the same mix after seedling. Veg closet? flower tent? Same thing! I F*ing Love Dyna-Gro! My last harvest was over 2g/watt.
And even better in the debatable g/w/day metric. I'll stand behind my system till the cows come home haha.
The cool part about DTW is you don't have to change your medium or nutes to start using it. It's just automated watering.
Edit: with Dyna-Gro and quantum boards it costs roughly $40/wk to run
When you're ready we can get you rolling in no time.
And even better in the debatable g/w/day metric. I'll stand behind my system till the cows come home haha.The cool part about DTW is you don't have to change your medium or nutes to start using it. It's just automated watering.
Edit: with Dyna-Gro and quantum boards it costs roughly $40/wk to run
When you're ready we can get you rolling in no time.
- Thread starter
- #37
GIjose
Well-Known Member
Would love to see that come in!
Elvin
Banned Troll
For me it is simple; compare THC levels between the two. Photos of the same variety produced by the same grower that is also selling Autos always show higher THC by 3-4 points or even more.
- Thread starter
- #39
GIjose
Well-Known Member
Pishhh higher ThC is allways good for me lol, the cost and ease will also affectmy decision between autos and photos. Im a full time care giver for my son that utilizes the CBD portion
I'm going to agree with what Turbo said on the front page. That being that autos are not for everyone.
Photos and Autos both have their place. Which to grow depends on not just your preference, but your needs.
Some will say autos burn more electricity because you run them 18/6 for the whole grow. While it's true that the light schedule remains full and is not cut like with a photo, you're growing that plant for less time. So no, they don't burn more electricity.
Flowers from a photo and auto of the same "strain", compared against one another, the photo is going to be better overall. However, it may not be by much, and that auto is still going to be really, really good. We're talking maybe 2% diff in THC. So a 24% strain in photo, might be 22% in an auto.
You feed autos the same nutrients, there is no difference in that. You grow them the same in terms of medium, watering, etc. You can run some type of hydro, soilless, or soil.
An auto will progress through its life cycle regardless of lighting schedule. It will veg for however long it wants (as determined by its genes) and then start to flower without intervention.
Now with photos, as you're aware, you have more control. You can veg them to the size you want, then flower them. If something happens, you can veg longer to recover. There is certainly more wiggle room with a photo. A photo will yield more, but don't let numbers sway you. One reason a photo will yield more is simply because someone can veg it longer. An auto and photo the veg for the same time won't have a huge difference in yield. The photo will produce more, but the gap isn't super huge.
If you're comfortable with growing a plant, give an auto a try if you would like. In a 4x4 tent, you could run 5 and be in good shape (exceptions apply now and then.) Having that extra in there can help make up for the yield difference a bit.
Now there are some things you can't really do with an auto, or do as easily. For example, running a ScrOG, or mainlining them. They just don't veg long enough to recover from all the toppings with a mainline. You can kind of try to ScrOG them, but it's different than with a photo. Again, from the standard topping requirements.
However, if you have a solid genetic strain that grows well, you can top an auto flowering plant. I have 5 in a 4x4 tent right now, and you bet all 5 were topped. You MUST exercise extreme caution when doing this. If you are unable to top your plant by the start of their 4th week, then back off and go with straight LST. If the plant is not growing strong, then back off and go with straight LST. Which leads us to the next part. Do not top an auto that is past it's 3rd full week, or not growing vigorously.
With an auto, you're best bet is LST. There are several forms out there, and which route you go is personal preference. If I were to need to go with straight LST, I would probably do the circular form. Effectively bending the plant and growing it out to the edge, then following around the edge of the pot. The goal with LST and auto's is to get the middle opened up for better growth down below.
If you're brave enough, and decide you're willing to top (if able), check out the quadline thread.
If growing in soilless or soil, you won't be up potting like you would a photo. You will put your seedling in its final pot and be done with it. You must be careful with the watering. There is a ton of info on this site alone about doing this, and it's not complicated at all. You just have to know what/how/when.
Old Salt is also right on Mega Crop. It does an excellent job, and really cuts your nutrient bill down. I picked up a bag that should last me about 65 weeks. (Running 2 grows it's shorter on the calendar than that.) That bag, shipped, was under $80 USD. I couldn't get through one grow for that with any other nutrient line. It's not the be all end all, but it's a very, very good product. Other then the possible need for a little extra CalMag, that one bag of MC is all you need. If you are one of those super tinkering types that love to tweak all the individual parts of your nutes (and there's nothing wrong with that) than MC probably isn't your cup of tea. You can add a little to it, but must be very careful as it's a fully balanced product that has plenty of everything to go from start to finish. Auto or photo, it on its own is worth a look.
The biggest determining factor with an auto is genetics. You don't want any weaker breeders with sketchy genetics. Stick with the big dogs and you'll be in much better shape. Fast Buds, Blimburn, Barney's, Dinafem, etc. No canuk, no crop king, no low-end breeders. If the genetics aren't strong, might as well move along. If you get shaky genetics, you're going to have a bad time and will experience all the stereotypes of an auto. Good genetics and you'll be off to a solid start.
After genetics, you'll need good light, and good growing practices. Those practices also include patience, just sayin.
I wouldn't run an auto and a photo in the same tent, generally speaking. The autos finish quicker because of their genetically determined veg time. They're still going to take many weeks to flower. Because of this, you want to ensure you're not flipping your photo to 12/12 when your auto isn't done. If you can time it so your auto is done by the time you're ready to flip, it's doable. It's not a matter of a few weeks though. If you want to do that, wait for the auto to start flowering and stop its stretch before dropping the photo. Then you should be alright. Just make sure there is room for your photo to get plenty of light.
Photos and Autos both have their place. Which to grow depends on not just your preference, but your needs.
Some will say autos burn more electricity because you run them 18/6 for the whole grow. While it's true that the light schedule remains full and is not cut like with a photo, you're growing that plant for less time. So no, they don't burn more electricity.
Flowers from a photo and auto of the same "strain", compared against one another, the photo is going to be better overall. However, it may not be by much, and that auto is still going to be really, really good. We're talking maybe 2% diff in THC. So a 24% strain in photo, might be 22% in an auto.
You feed autos the same nutrients, there is no difference in that. You grow them the same in terms of medium, watering, etc. You can run some type of hydro, soilless, or soil.
An auto will progress through its life cycle regardless of lighting schedule. It will veg for however long it wants (as determined by its genes) and then start to flower without intervention.
Now with photos, as you're aware, you have more control. You can veg them to the size you want, then flower them. If something happens, you can veg longer to recover. There is certainly more wiggle room with a photo. A photo will yield more, but don't let numbers sway you. One reason a photo will yield more is simply because someone can veg it longer. An auto and photo the veg for the same time won't have a huge difference in yield. The photo will produce more, but the gap isn't super huge.
If you're comfortable with growing a plant, give an auto a try if you would like. In a 4x4 tent, you could run 5 and be in good shape (exceptions apply now and then.) Having that extra in there can help make up for the yield difference a bit.
Now there are some things you can't really do with an auto, or do as easily. For example, running a ScrOG, or mainlining them. They just don't veg long enough to recover from all the toppings with a mainline. You can kind of try to ScrOG them, but it's different than with a photo. Again, from the standard topping requirements.
However, if you have a solid genetic strain that grows well, you can top an auto flowering plant. I have 5 in a 4x4 tent right now, and you bet all 5 were topped. You MUST exercise extreme caution when doing this. If you are unable to top your plant by the start of their 4th week, then back off and go with straight LST. If the plant is not growing strong, then back off and go with straight LST. Which leads us to the next part. Do not top an auto that is past it's 3rd full week, or not growing vigorously.
With an auto, you're best bet is LST. There are several forms out there, and which route you go is personal preference. If I were to need to go with straight LST, I would probably do the circular form. Effectively bending the plant and growing it out to the edge, then following around the edge of the pot. The goal with LST and auto's is to get the middle opened up for better growth down below.
If you're brave enough, and decide you're willing to top (if able), check out the quadline thread.
If growing in soilless or soil, you won't be up potting like you would a photo. You will put your seedling in its final pot and be done with it. You must be careful with the watering. There is a ton of info on this site alone about doing this, and it's not complicated at all. You just have to know what/how/when.
Old Salt is also right on Mega Crop. It does an excellent job, and really cuts your nutrient bill down. I picked up a bag that should last me about 65 weeks. (Running 2 grows it's shorter on the calendar than that.) That bag, shipped, was under $80 USD. I couldn't get through one grow for that with any other nutrient line. It's not the be all end all, but it's a very, very good product. Other then the possible need for a little extra CalMag, that one bag of MC is all you need. If you are one of those super tinkering types that love to tweak all the individual parts of your nutes (and there's nothing wrong with that) than MC probably isn't your cup of tea. You can add a little to it, but must be very careful as it's a fully balanced product that has plenty of everything to go from start to finish. Auto or photo, it on its own is worth a look.
The biggest determining factor with an auto is genetics. You don't want any weaker breeders with sketchy genetics. Stick with the big dogs and you'll be in much better shape. Fast Buds, Blimburn, Barney's, Dinafem, etc. No canuk, no crop king, no low-end breeders. If the genetics aren't strong, might as well move along. If you get shaky genetics, you're going to have a bad time and will experience all the stereotypes of an auto. Good genetics and you'll be off to a solid start.
After genetics, you'll need good light, and good growing practices. Those practices also include patience, just sayin.
I wouldn't run an auto and a photo in the same tent, generally speaking. The autos finish quicker because of their genetically determined veg time. They're still going to take many weeks to flower. Because of this, you want to ensure you're not flipping your photo to 12/12 when your auto isn't done. If you can time it so your auto is done by the time you're ready to flip, it's doable. It's not a matter of a few weeks though. If you want to do that, wait for the auto to start flowering and stop its stretch before dropping the photo. Then you should be alright. Just make sure there is room for your photo to get plenty of light.
