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- #21
Well, failures are as important as successes for the info they provide, so feel free to share whatever you did that didn't work if you think it useful.
Azi's Cloning Adventures
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- #22
** Round Two **
Round two has officially started. This time I'm trying one of my KNF extracts vs tap water.
Two years ago I made a brown sugar extract of willow leaves and twigs, strained the liquid out and them put the stuff I strained out into a water based Jadam extract.
So this round will be the willow brown sugar extract. The KNF extracts are recommended to be used at a dilution rate of 1:1,000 but I typically use them a bit stronger at about 1:750 so that's what I'll use for this round.
Four cuttings of NL5 were taken, two for each jar. One was scraped, one not.
I plan to change out the water in both containers at least weekly to keep the nasties at bay. The tap water Jar will get cleaned and rinsed, the stems sprayed down and the water replaced with new. The KNF jar will get the same treatment, just replacing the solution with the same ratio as I started with assuming I don't see indications of burning or drying like I did last round with the fresh stuff.
Round One (Fresh, non-diluted Willow Water (using shredded willow bark) vs Tap Water was a fail. Seemed too concentrated and the leaves dried out and the cuttings rotted. That seems good news actually, since it seems as though there is a "too strong" mix. I'll revist with a watered down version at some point, but first I'll let the mixture ferment in its Jadam Water Extract jar for a while.
I'm adding some more things to the list to test:
- Rain water vs Tap
- Straight cut vs 45*
- Leaf misting vs Not
- Side shoots cut (@Gee64 style) vs Stripped
Round two has officially started. This time I'm trying one of my KNF extracts vs tap water.
Two years ago I made a brown sugar extract of willow leaves and twigs, strained the liquid out and them put the stuff I strained out into a water based Jadam extract.
So this round will be the willow brown sugar extract. The KNF extracts are recommended to be used at a dilution rate of 1:1,000 but I typically use them a bit stronger at about 1:750 so that's what I'll use for this round.
Four cuttings of NL5 were taken, two for each jar. One was scraped, one not.
I plan to change out the water in both containers at least weekly to keep the nasties at bay. The tap water Jar will get cleaned and rinsed, the stems sprayed down and the water replaced with new. The KNF jar will get the same treatment, just replacing the solution with the same ratio as I started with assuming I don't see indications of burning or drying like I did last round with the fresh stuff.
Round One (Fresh, non-diluted Willow Water (using shredded willow bark) vs Tap Water was a fail. Seemed too concentrated and the leaves dried out and the cuttings rotted. That seems good news actually, since it seems as though there is a "too strong" mix. I'll revist with a watered down version at some point, but first I'll let the mixture ferment in its Jadam Water Extract jar for a while.
I'm adding some more things to the list to test:
- Rain water vs Tap
- Straight cut vs 45*
- Leaf misting vs Not
- Side shoots cut (@Gee64 style) vs Stripped
Gee64
Well-Known Member
I am only guessing here Azi as I have never tried what you are doing but, if you keep getting failures it may not be the concoctions as directly as you would think.
What I mean by that is, and I am only guessing here, but if your extracts are actually nutritious, as opposed to hormones only, the cuttings are far less likely to root as they will eat the solution instead of popping roots to find food with. Very similar to cloning in nutritious soil.
The hormones in the concoction only need to be in contact for a few seconds. All they need to do is exist long enough to send a signal to tell the plant to root.
I dip in rooting powder, wait 10 secs, tap off all excess, and put into a running bubble cloner, so maybe 60 seconds before the hormone is rinsed off in the cloner, but the rinse-off stays in the cloner. Likely less than 1:1000.
All the rooting hormone a plant creates to pop those roots will fit in a single drop of water on the end of a pin, so if you think it should work and it doesn't, try soaking the cutting for 90 seconds in your extract and then placing into a glass of RO water.
Don't forget to mist.
The more water down bottom the more you need on foliar to push nutes down from the leaves to the future root sites.
Also that 1:1000 ratio may work splendidly in a bubble cloner.
The list grows...... (cue Jaws music)...
Now where was I? Oh yeah I remember now....
a gram of kief held together with honey oil
. If I start to babble itz begsci tde hsjkishbn.....
What I mean by that is, and I am only guessing here, but if your extracts are actually nutritious, as opposed to hormones only, the cuttings are far less likely to root as they will eat the solution instead of popping roots to find food with. Very similar to cloning in nutritious soil.
The hormones in the concoction only need to be in contact for a few seconds. All they need to do is exist long enough to send a signal to tell the plant to root.
I dip in rooting powder, wait 10 secs, tap off all excess, and put into a running bubble cloner, so maybe 60 seconds before the hormone is rinsed off in the cloner, but the rinse-off stays in the cloner. Likely less than 1:1000.
All the rooting hormone a plant creates to pop those roots will fit in a single drop of water on the end of a pin, so if you think it should work and it doesn't, try soaking the cutting for 90 seconds in your extract and then placing into a glass of RO water.
Don't forget to mist.
The more water down bottom the more you need on foliar to push nutes down from the leaves to the future root sites.
Also that 1:1000 ratio may work splendidly in a bubble cloner.
The list grows...... (cue Jaws music)...
Now where was I? Oh yeah I remember now....
a gram of kief held together with honey oil
. If I start to babble itz begsci tde hsjkishbn.....- Thread starter
- #24
Thanks, Gee. Good thoughts to keep in mind. I'm going to let this round play out as I outlined and maybe I'll try the next one with just the brief soak you mentioned.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
How is Round 2 going?
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- #26
Day 10, the Willow water version seems to be putting some white cells together in what could be an early attempt at roots. Nothing definitive yet though.
Going to start a parallel version tomorrow.
Going to start a parallel version tomorrow.
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Hey Azi,
Meant to post earlier waiting on more encouraging results but here it is;
I cloned them from an Auto (learned a lesson) mid flowering (learned another lesson). The idea behind was that I used my willow/seaweed water extract to spray the clones and then used the rooting powder. Aft the first week it was fine. I kept foliar application using this solution. 2 week I lost 2 out of 3. Now this one stands very weak.
I will do the same process with photos as soon as I can get to it.
My conclusion are not yet made. I need to try non auto flow cultivar to have a real argument.
Meant to post earlier waiting on more encouraging results but here it is;
I cloned them from an Auto (learned a lesson) mid flowering (learned another lesson). The idea behind was that I used my willow/seaweed water extract to spray the clones and then used the rooting powder. Aft the first week it was fine. I kept foliar application using this solution. 2 week I lost 2 out of 3. Now this one stands very weak.
I will do the same process with photos as soon as I can get to it.
My conclusion are not yet made. I need to try non auto flow cultivar to have a real argument.
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- #28
Thanks for the update Dani. I'm sure the answer is out there somewhere, we just have to find it.
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- #29
I started a parallel experiment using the willow water vs rain water, but this time instead of using glass jars to hold the cuttings I'm using small, perlite Hempy, solo cups. The reason is that I got about a dozen willow cuttings to root in a jar of water but only one or two survived the pot up into soil.
It's quite possible I didn't let the roots get long enough nor well enough developed, but still, that's a pretty poor percentage to make the transition after successfully throwing roots.
Years ago when I first started cloning I used a swick version of the perlite hempy, essentially a wide bed of perlite in an upper container with polypropylene wicks connecting it to a water container below, and had decent success so I figured I'd see how that will work for me now. I've recommended perlite hempy's as cloning tools to others, so figured I'd take my own advice.
I had early bug signs on the mother plant so I treated it with a new bug spray I'm trialing and it burned the new growth so I'm not off to a great start.
I trimmed the lower nodes off the 4 clones while they were still attached to the mother (a la @Gee64 ) , scraped the stem on one of each pair, and trimmed leaves also on one of each pair. The next day, the 4 got cut from the mother and soaked overnight, 2 in rain water, 2 in the willow water from the previous round. Then they were potted up in their respective perlite hempy's, two to a cup.
I figure the Hempy approach should be a good match for the transition into my SIPs since it is a reasonably close approximation to the SIP environment just with perlite above rather than soil, but I found the SIP structure with soil kept the medium too wet to successfully root clones.
So, a decent middle ground perhaps?
Onward we go.
It's quite possible I didn't let the roots get long enough nor well enough developed, but still, that's a pretty poor percentage to make the transition after successfully throwing roots.
Years ago when I first started cloning I used a swick version of the perlite hempy, essentially a wide bed of perlite in an upper container with polypropylene wicks connecting it to a water container below, and had decent success so I figured I'd see how that will work for me now. I've recommended perlite hempy's as cloning tools to others, so figured I'd take my own advice.
I had early bug signs on the mother plant so I treated it with a new bug spray I'm trialing and it burned the new growth so I'm not off to a great start.
I trimmed the lower nodes off the 4 clones while they were still attached to the mother (a la @Gee64 ) , scraped the stem on one of each pair, and trimmed leaves also on one of each pair. The next day, the 4 got cut from the mother and soaked overnight, 2 in rain water, 2 in the willow water from the previous round. Then they were potted up in their respective perlite hempy's, two to a cup.
I figure the Hempy approach should be a good match for the transition into my SIPs since it is a reasonably close approximation to the SIP environment just with perlite above rather than soil, but I found the SIP structure with soil kept the medium too wet to successfully root clones.
So, a decent middle ground perhaps?
Onward we go.
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Right on brother,
Love reading this stuff.
Stacking up energy to do a belated second round of clones, photos this time… no more Auto hiccups.
Love reading this stuff.
Stacking up energy to do a belated second round of clones, photos this time… no more Auto hiccups.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
What is it? Day 7? any root nubs yet?
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- #32
Nope. And we had a few really hot days and the stems all had white fuzz starting to grow. I hit them with H2O2 but to no avail. The Willow water cuts are done. The water only still look OK so I'll let them go a bit longer and see.
Hopefully the perlite Hempy version will fair better.
Hopefully the perlite Hempy version will fair better.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
are you misting them a few times a day?Nope. And we had a few really hot days and the stems all had white fuzz starting to grow. I hit them with H2O2 but to no avail. The Willow water cuts are done. The water only still look OK so I'll let them go a bit longer and see.
Hopefully the perlite Hempy version will fair better.
Pondwater
Well-Known Member
Subbed , I’m playing with rooting also but in a simpler way lol interesting
Atm I’m using aloe iba and fulvic with kelp spray and ca seems to work well in 7days
Atm I’m using aloe iba and fulvic with kelp spray and ca seems to work well in 7days
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- #35
No. No misting. I'll try that next.
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- #36
Ha! Success!
This morning (Day 9) I floated out the four cuts in the perlite hempy's to see if there was anything going on and one of the water only cuts had a root coming out from the very bottom.
Pretty stoked. The rooted cut was the one that I did not leaf trim. The other water-only cut rotted and was discarded, and nothing on the two willow water cuts yet. Those initially got soaked in diluted willow water overnight and then replaced with rain water in the reservoir. They are the best looking of the remaining three, but no roots or root nubs yet.
For both cups, I top water with rain water twice a week to rewet the perlite from above and to flush/renew the reservoir a bit.
This means that the CBD plant rolls on. I think I'll take cuts from my NL5 and leaf trim one and not the other and see if there is anything consistent in the results.
Last weekend the new CBD mother in the 1L SIP was looking a bit weird with strange, twisted, droopy foliage, and stunted new growth. Classic over-watered look. And in a SIP! SMH.
So, I drained the reservoir as best as I could and let her dry out a bit. A few days later new growth is coming in hot and she's praying hard so I'll plan on keeping her less watered at least until she shows me she can take more.
I think I'll make up a batch of soil to get ready for an up-pot in a few weeks.
This morning (Day 9) I floated out the four cuts in the perlite hempy's to see if there was anything going on and one of the water only cuts had a root coming out from the very bottom.
Pretty stoked. The rooted cut was the one that I did not leaf trim. The other water-only cut rotted and was discarded, and nothing on the two willow water cuts yet. Those initially got soaked in diluted willow water overnight and then replaced with rain water in the reservoir. They are the best looking of the remaining three, but no roots or root nubs yet.
For both cups, I top water with rain water twice a week to rewet the perlite from above and to flush/renew the reservoir a bit.
This means that the CBD plant rolls on. I think I'll take cuts from my NL5 and leaf trim one and not the other and see if there is anything consistent in the results.
Last weekend the new CBD mother in the 1L SIP was looking a bit weird with strange, twisted, droopy foliage, and stunted new growth. Classic over-watered look. And in a SIP! SMH.
So, I drained the reservoir as best as I could and let her dry out a bit. A few days later new growth is coming in hot and she's praying hard so I'll plan on keeping her less watered at least until she shows me she can take more.
I think I'll make up a batch of soil to get ready for an up-pot in a few weeks.
Pondwater
Well-Known Member
Haha I’ve done the accidental left in a glass o water and they rooted before my bubbler lol , started soil cuttings which I hated and now I love it lol seems to get better root zones even tho there is a fishtail plat on bbbblers most of that is water roots that die back in soil and make new roots to replace them so I’ve found so I do in plugs or soil nowHa! Success!
This morning (Day 9) I floated out the four cuts in the perlite hempy's to see if there was anything going on and one of the water only cuts had a root coming out from the very bottom.
Pretty stoked. The rooted cut was the one that I did not leaf trim. The other water-only cut rotted and was discarded, and nothing on the two willow water cuts yet. Those initially got soaked in diluted willow water overnight and then replaced with rain water in the reservoir. They are the best looking of the remaining three, but no roots or root nubs yet.
For both cups, I top water with rain water twice a week to rewet the perlite from above and to flush/renew the reservoir a bit.
This means that the CBD plant rolls on. I think I'll take cuts from my NL5 and leaf trim one and not the other and see if there is anything consistent in the results.
Last weekend the new CBD mother in the 1L SIP was looking a bit weird with strange, twisted, droopy foliage, and stunted new growth. Classic over-watered look. And in a SIP! SMH.
So, I drained the reservoir as best as I could and let her dry out a bit. A few days later new growth is coming in hot and she's praying hard so I'll plan on keeping her less watered at least until she shows me she can take more.
I think I'll make up a batch of soil to get ready for an up-pot in a few weeks.
Seem to have better results doing a swick for them and dry rooting no humidity dome lol god knows why it goes against all I learnt on cuttings
Fulvic scid roots em fast too lol plo led one in that n got roots lol
I did honey and got bacterial growths
Aloe seems to work but ain’t fast
I like the water only for 2 days in a glass then transfers em to soil and wait
Seem to wilt when I spray em
And perk up if I feed the perlite instead
Have you noticed anything like this ?
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- #38
I just started spraying them this morning so I have no history to judge it on.
Since I'm going into SIPs I want a method that is compatible with that, and preferably one that i organic and don't require pumps. So, I'm a bit out off the mainstream on how I'm trying to accomplish the task.
Pondwater
Well-Known Member
Are ya doing the hempy cuttings did I see there lol , saw a guy write up on that a while ago ,party cup hole inch up n cutting in damn good way really just I hate that perlite goes bloody green so fast washing that stuff gets tedious , are ya doing more than 1 per cup ? I didn’t dare as to tangle roots ,babe if my life u tangling roots
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- #40
Yep, that about it. I have them in a fairly low light environment and no algae has developed so far after about 10 days.
I have them 2-3 to a cup but the roots shouldn't be all that tangled when I separate them as I don't intend to leave them in the cups for all that long. Just enough to get a decent amount of root growth.
Right now all I have is one little root maybe an inch long on one of the cuttings so I put it back in to let it develop a bit more. I'll pull them all out again in a week and see what's what.
I have them 2-3 to a cup but the roots shouldn't be all that tangled when I separate them as I don't intend to leave them in the cups for all that long. Just enough to get a decent amount of root growth.
Right now all I have is one little root maybe an inch long on one of the cuttings so I put it back in to let it develop a bit more. I'll pull them all out again in a week and see what's what.
