Azi's Cloning Adventures

[Absorber]

I used to have 100% success rate with a cloning set-up i used to run back in the day ,I need to make another one .
It was 2 stackable rectangular tubs the bottom one is about 20cm deep with fish tank heater in water in it and top tub is about 10cm deep drill 5mm holes in floor of top tray silicone down some fly screen over base to cover holes cover in pearlite there's a clear rectangle dome lid that used to fit perfectly on these tubs usually available from hydro shops .in one corner on the inside wall of top tub a battern light fitting (lamp holder) is wired with 40w filament globe for dry heat and a fluorescent gobe above lid on for 24 hrs .
Clones where dipped into Woods cloning solution cut just below node didn't even scrap put into 80mm grow blocks .
Worked every time

 

[Pondwater]

The best way to get roots that I have found is to starve them into existing.

If the plant can eat it doesn't need roots.

The water on the leaves enters the leaves and flows down and out the cut at the bottom. That water dilutes nutes and takes it down with it to the location where it is needed to grow roots.

Once you cut a clone it has no closed loop circulatory system so you need to cram water down from the top to flow the nutes down. Its a race to get roots started before the leaves run out of nutes.

I have found that if you feed clones before they root they just sit there for 3-4 weeks and then quickly turn to rotten mush.

You also want to dial photosynthesis way back so you don't photosynthesize the nutes in the leaves before enough can be relocated to root sites.

If you follow that principle you don't even need hormones. Hormones do speed things up if you apply them very lightly. Too much fries the cutting.

Do you like your spouse when there are too many hormones circulating?

They are extremely powerful. They are designed to send signals and if needed they can yell over the crowd to get the signal through. They have the loudest voice in the plant. Very powerful, you don't need much.

Makes sense

 

[Danishoes21]

The best way to get roots that I have found is to starve them into existing.

If the plant can eat it doesn't need roots.

The water on the leaves enters the leaves and flows down and out the cut at the bottom. That water dilutes nutes and takes it down with it to the location where it is needed to grow roots.

Once you cut a clone it has no closed loop circulatory system so you need to cram water down from the top to flow the nutes down. Its a race to get roots started before the leaves run out of nutes.

I have found that if you feed clones before they root they just sit there for 3-4 weeks and then quickly turn to rotten mush.

You also want to dial photosynthesis way back so you don't photosynthesize the nutes in the leaves before enough can be relocated to root sites.

If you follow that principle you don't even need hormones. Hormones do speed things up if you apply them very lightly. Too much fries the cutting.

Do you like your spouse when there are too many hormones circulating?

They are extremely powerful. They are designed to send signals and if needed they can yell over the crowd to get the signal through. They have the loudest voice in the plant. Very powerful, you don't need much.

That’s a great point you made. Question for you;

When do you introduce feed/water to roots?

What is the light schedule to not photosynthesize the nutrients in the leaf?

Thanks again.

 

[Gee64]

That’s a great point you made. Question for you;

When do you introduce feed/water to roots?

I never feed my clones until I am ready to transplant them.

Clones in HP or coco I will give a myco drench and mild fish ferts once I am satisfied they are ready to be hardened off.

Bubble clones I don't feed or mist at all until they are planted.

What is the light schedule to not photosynthesize the nutrients in the leaf?

I use an 18" Sunblaster T5HO at least 24" above the clones and keep it exactly on the veg schedule of the mother plant. 18/6.

Thanks again.

 

[Azimuth]

I have found that if you feed clones before they root they just sit there for 3-4 weeks and then quickly turn to rotten mush

Interesting because i started misting the one clone left of the Willow water round with very diluted worm casting JLF. I sprayed it morning and night I think two rounds then went out of town for two days. I checked it today and it is fried just like @Danishoes21 experienced with his diluted tea water.

Maybe this @Gee64 guy is on to something with his plain water spritzes.

Further supporting that strategy is the new round of aloe cuts. One cup is getting plain water sprays twice a day and so far (Day 13) it is no worse for wear, and same for the other new cut (Day 3).

The other aloe cup is not getting sprayed at all and is showing its first root. I wasn't able to check it yesterday but it would have certainly been visible which means it probably started rooting on day 9 or 10. Still has another week to go before I pull them out to check, but so far I'm liking this round's combination of factors.

There are another 4 limbs large enough to take for cuttings so I'll probably try something new for those in a few days.

 

[Danishoes21]

I was leaving 24 hrs light as well. But my lamp is not strong so I wouldn’t think they got burned by the light, also the clones had a dome. I am more convinced here that my Willow solution is too much to handle for the small cuttings.
I do see a deterioration after the 4th day. By the begging of the second week they are toasted..
I haven’t diluted that’s my mistake (probably), while the big plants can take it like nothing the babies can’t.
I think I’m ready to go back to water for a next round and give the clones a dark period.
I gotta try Aloe too. It’s on my schedule.

 

[Gee64]

Ok so let me sum this up. You use a hormone, you use properly moist soil, you add a dome to help regulate moisture, you greatly reduce photosynthesis so the plant doesn't eat its stored nutes, then you spray the leaves with nutes and say to the plant, " Now that I have pretty much reduced your ability to eat down to almost zero, Im going to spray food all over you and see if you can eat it" correct?

So we are trying to gag the clones with food?

lol Im being a smart ass but what I am saying is that when you foliar feed a plant it doesn't eat it right off the leaf, it pulls it in directly to the photosynthesis dept. and turns it into sugar and processes other valuables such as trace minerals.

If you cut photosynthesis way back to get roots why would you use a foliar that requires photosynthesis to work?

It confuses the plant.

You only need 5 days for roots to start, even if they aren't visible yet, so don't worry about starvation.

Watch for it for sure.

At about day 5-8 quite often the lower leaves will go paler or more often the main growing tip looks hungry.

When you see that hunger you have roots, even if they haven't appeared yet. They are on the way. I strive to see hungry clones when I clone in soil.

Don't confuse bubble clones with soil clones. They are polar opposites as much as organics and synthetics are opposites.

With bubble clones you don't need to curb photosynthesis because the drops of water running down the trunk of the clone form drips on the ends.

Those drips have weight and before they drip off, the weight causes suction on the end of the clone trunk pulling water down.

It mimicks circulation so the plant can grow while its growing roots.

When you clone in soil you push water down from the top through the stomata that are supposed to release O2.

If you can't release O2 you really don't want to photosynthesize as that creates O2.

Photosynthesis removes the carbon molecule from CO2. Often referred to as "Carbon Capture". So bubble clones are ok to foliar(not needed ever but do it if you like), as youu have full leaves full of nutes.

Then there is hormones. Clones will root without as they can create their own, but they root faster if you supply them. And its a race.

All the hormones a clone creates to send the signals to say " Hey everyone, we need a root here, send some supplies" will fit into a drop of water that can sit on the end of a strand of hair.

It's like a phone. If you ask for a pizza you get a pizza. If you scream as loud as you possibly can you probably won't get a pizza. Too much hormone is a scream and everyone sends everything right now, and the cutting dies really fast.

Now once you have roots in a soil clone please for the love of god feed it, but thru the roots.

The plant doesn't grow roots to increase its ability to eat foliarly. It produces roots because it's hungry. Let them come out looking for food, don't order them take-out. It only slows root development.

Does that help clarify the process?

 

[Absorber]

Ok so let me sum this up. You use a hormone, you use properly moist soil, you add a dome to help regulate moisture, you greatly reduce photosynthesis so the plant doesn't eat its stored nutes, then you spray the leaves with nutes and say to the plant, " Now that I have pretty much reduced your ability to eat down to almost zero, Im going to spray food all over you and see if you can eat it" correct?

So we are trying to gag the clones with food?

lol Im being a smart ass but what I am saying is that when you foliar feed a plant it doesn't eat it right off the leaf, it pulls it in directly to the photosynthesis dept. and turns it into sugar and processes other valuables such as trace minerals.

If you cut photosynthesis way back to get roots why would you use a foliar that requires photosynthesis to work?

It confuses the plant.

You only need 5 days for roots to start, even if they aren't visible yet, so don't worry about starvation.

Watch for it for sure.

At about day 5-8 quite often the lower leaves will go paler or more often the main growing tip looks hungry.

When you see that hunger you have roots, even if they haven't appeared yet. They are on the way. I strive to see hungry clones when I clone in soil.

Don't confuse bubble clones with soil clones. They are polar opposites as much as organics and synthetics are opposites.

With bubble clones you don't need to curb photosynthesis because the drops of water running down the trunk of the clone form drips on the ends.

Those drips have weight and before they drip off, the weight causes suction on the end of the clone trunk pulling water down.

It mimicks circulation so the plant can grow while its growing roots.

When you clone in soil you push water down from the top through the stomata that are supposed to release O2.

If you can't release O2 you really don't want to photosynthesize as that creates O2.

Photosynthesis removes the carbon molecule from CO2. Often referred to as "Carbon Capture". So bubble clones are ok to foliar(not needed ever but do it if you like), as youu have full leaves full of nutes.

Then there is hormones. Clones will root without as they can create their own, but they root faster if you supply them. And its a race.

All the hormones a clone creates to send the signals to say " Hey everyone, we need a root here, send some supplies" will fit into a drop of water that can sit on the end of a strand of hair.

It's like a phone. If you ask for a pizza you get a pizza. If you scream as loud as you possibly can you probably won't get a pizza. Too much hormone is a scream and everyone sends everything right now, and the cutting dies really fast.

Now once you have roots in a soil clone please for the love of god feed it, but thru the roots.

The plant doesn't grow roots to increase its ability to eat foliarly. It produces roots because it's hungry. Let them come out looking for food, don't order them take-out. It only slows root development.

Does that help clarify the process?

I never sprayed or fed clones in my cloning set up and within a week to 14 days they all had roots ,if you have taken the cutting correctly and the environment for your clones is on point it shouldn't take any longer.

 

[Gee64]

I never sprayed or fed clones in my cloning set up and within a week to 14 days they all had roots ,if you have taken the cutting correctly and the environment for your clones is on point it shouldn't take any longer.

That is exactly how I do it. Its purely about hormones and water transfer.

 

[Azimuth]

Going to park this here...

 

[Azimuth]

I'm prepping the next round. This time I'm going to test perlite hempy vs. perlite cup, or whether a non-reservoir helps to better manage the moisture levels.

I trimmed up the 4 clones and filled the reservoir and I'll cut them tomorrow and stick them with aloe, 2 in each cup.

 

[Danishoes21]

Ok so let me sum this up. You use a hormone, you use properly moist soil, you add a dome to help regulate moisture, you greatly reduce photosynthesis so the plant doesn't eat its stored nutes, then you spray the leaves with nutes and say to the plant, " Now that I have pretty much reduced your ability to eat down to almost zero, Im going to spray food all over you and see if you can eat it" correct?

So we are trying to gag the clones with food?

lol Im being a smart ass but what I am saying is that when you foliar feed a plant it doesn't eat it right off the leaf, it pulls it in directly to the photosynthesis dept. and turns it into sugar and processes other valuables such as trace minerals.

If you cut photosynthesis way back to get roots why would you use a foliar that requires photosynthesis to work?

It confuses the plant.

You only need 5 days for roots to start, even if they aren't visible yet, so don't worry about starvation.

Watch for it for sure.

At about day 5-8 quite often the lower leaves will go paler or more often the main growing tip looks hungry.

When you see that hunger you have roots, even if they haven't appeared yet. They are on the way. I strive to see hungry clones when I clone in soil.

Don't confuse bubble clones with soil clones. They are polar opposites as much as organics and synthetics are opposites.

With bubble clones you don't need to curb photosynthesis because the drops of water running down the trunk of the clone form drips on the ends.

Those drips have weight and before they drip off, the weight causes suction on the end of the clone trunk pulling water down.

It mimicks circulation so the plant can grow while its growing roots.

When you clone in soil you push water down from the top through the stomata that are supposed to release O2.

If you can't release O2 you really don't want to photosynthesize as that creates O2.

Photosynthesis removes the carbon molecule from CO2. Often referred to as "Carbon Capture". So bubble clones are ok to foliar(not needed ever but do it if you like), as youu have full leaves full of nutes.

Then there is hormones. Clones will root without as they can create their own, but they root faster if you supply them. And its a race.

All the hormones a clone creates to send the signals to say " Hey everyone, we need a root here, send some supplies" will fit into a drop of water that can sit on the end of a strand of hair.

It's like a phone. If you ask for a pizza you get a pizza. If you scream as loud as you possibly can you probably won't get a pizza. Too much hormone is a scream and everyone sends everything right now, and the cutting dies really fast.

Now once you have roots in a soil clone please for the love of god feed it, but thru the roots.

The plant doesn't grow roots to increase its ability to eat foliarly. It produces roots because it's hungry. Let them come out looking for food, don't order them take-out. It only slows root development.

Does that help clarify the process?

Appreciate what you bringing in.



keep it lit

 

[Azimuth]

Took the four today. Since I don't yet know which are the better combo's, I scraped all four and then one of each pair got aloe slimed.

I guess I'll call this round the Perlite Hempy vs Perlite Airpot, with the latter having drainage holes from top to bottom. I was persuaded by the video above to get them to be drier after the first week so that's essentially what I'll be testing this round.

I must say I like most everything about doing it this way. I like the ritual of the various steps, the ease of the process and how great they look two weeks in. I don't think I've ever had this many clones look this good so far after cutting.

I'm not all that fond of the perlite itself as it's a bit messy to work with but if I can get consistent results with it then that's a trade-off I can live with.

 

[Azimuth]

The mother plant now has one limb that is longer than all of the others and I don't want to wait another week or two when the others are ready so I'm going to try to clone it now. Since I don't have any results yet from the aloe round I'll do it the way I think will maximize its chances.

This will give me a chance to test out Gee's technique of spraying the cut daily. I'll only be able to mist it twice a day rather than thrice, but well see how that works.

Roots showed on Day 9 with this one. It has been misted twice a day since it was cut.

Tomorrow will be Day 21 on the two Solo cups, both of which have roots showing. One has NL5's which have been sprayed twice daily since cutting, the other has my CBD cuts in it and no spraying and no subsequent water from the initial prep, so it will be interesting to see what I get.

Some were stuck with aloe, some not, and some scraped, some not. The NL5 misted cuttings have more roots showing on the side of the cups and they look more like what I would expect; very slender, delicate roots starting to branch out.

The CBD cup just has one, thicker and beefier root that showed but is not extending looking for water like I would expect. So, we'll see what I get for results but I know I have roots on everything that's at least 9 days in the cups so that's super encouraging.

I don't need any of them so the worm bin will be the beneficiary of most but I'll probably swap out the Willow water cut I recently potted for one of this round's so that I can start selecting for the best clones that thrive in this process.

So, looks like I have a winner with this approach as I've got roots to work with across the board. Tomorrow I'll see what I have for success percentage, and whether or not the scraping is something I'll continue with.

But from here I'll use this as a base strategy and test out the various things I listed at the beginning along with new ideas that come up but the basic components of perlite, no leaf trimming, prepping the cut the day before, etc. will be SOP.

 

[Gee64]

Roots showed on Day 9 with this one. It has been misted twice a day since it was cut.

Tomorrow will be Day 21 on the two Solo cups, both of which have roots showing. One has NL5's which have been sprayed twice daily since cutting, the other has my CBD cuts in it and no spraying and no subsequent water from the initial prep, so it will be interesting to see what I get.

Some were stuck with aloe, some not, and some scraped, some not. The NL5 misted cuttings have more roots showing on the side of the cups and they look more like what I would expect; very slender, delicate roots starting to branch out.

The CBD cup just has one, thicker and beefier root that showed but is not extending looking for water like I would expect. So, we'll see what I get for results but I know I have roots on everything that's at least 9 days in the cups so that's super encouraging.

I don't need any of them so the worm bin will be the beneficiary of most but I'll probably swap out the Willow water cut I recently potted for one of this round's so that I can start selecting for the best clones that thrive in this process.

So, looks like I have a winner with this approach as I've got roots to work with across the board. Tomorrow I'll see what I have for success percentage, and whether or not the scraping is something I'll continue with.

But from here I'll use this as a base strategy and test out the various things I listed at the beginning along with new ideas that come up but the basic components of perlite, no leaf trimming, prepping the cut the day before, etc. will be SOP.

Can you itemize for us what your new base for all future testing (for now) will be?

Also did the scraping show a higher or lower success than the unscraped?

Once you get your routine dialed in you may want to revisit willow water. It works well when used correctly.

The unsprayed clone got it's roots because you didn't water the soil and the gradient caused flow down, but its a risky approach and if natural humidity plummets it will bite you. It's not really the moisture of the leaves or of the soil, it's the difference between the two that dictates success. That difference and the amount of hormone used are quite literally 95% of the equation. And then there is hardening off, but lets not cross that bridge yet.

Excellent Azi!. Im glad consistency is setting in.

 

[Azimuth]

Right now all I know is yes to:
-Prepping the clone the day before by trimming off the lower nodes but leaving it attached to the donor plant
-Perlite as the medium
-No trimming back of the remaining leaves
-No pumps, sprayers or noise

Everything else is up for experiment though I should have more info tomorrow when I pull the oldest current round out and take a look. That should give me guidance on aloe or not, scraping or not, and misting or not.

Any conclusive positives will become part of the base process, anything iffy will get tossed back into the experiment pile. But, to be honest, the sample size is so small that I'd expect most things to be inconclusive.

Behind this round is the single, misted CBD cut that has already rooted, and then another round of 2 perlite cups each with two CBD cuts, one with a reservoir one without. Neither are getting misted at this point though that may change when I pull out the cuts tomorrow from the round discussed above.

So, stay tuned...

And I do realize that success in the humidity of summer may prove more elusive in the dry winter air so all of that will have to be dialed in. I'm just thrilled that I have at least the beginnings of what looks to be a promising, successful approach, especially given my consistent struggles up until now.

 

[Azimuth]

*** Aloe Round Day 21 Update ***

Floated out the 7 cuts today and wanted to post an update.

6 of the 7 have rooted, woot! Pretty stoked given my previous challenges. The remaining cut went back in simply for bragging rights as I'd like to say I had 100% success, but that's really not necessary.

The rest of the side experiments were inconclusive but here are my thoughts and observations.

The four Northern Lights 5 all rooted. This cup was misted twice a day and had generally better roots than the other, non-misted cup of CBD cuts suggesting they rooted earlier.

Two of the cuts had very strong roots, one aloe, one not, one scraped, one not so nothing even suggestive there. The other two were newly rooted with healthy white roots worthy of potting.

In the non-misted CBD cup, two of the three rooted, one aloe, one not. Roots were stubbier and thicker than those in the other misted cup as the perlite was drier than the other. Both scraped cuts rooted, non-scraped has not (yet). The best of the two was non-aloe and scraped, but the difference was not overwhelming.

The stronger roots in the misted cup could be because of the misting causing earlier striking, or could be genetics as that was a different strain.

I'll add twice daily misting to the other cuts in progress since there seemed to be no adverse effect and there might be a positive one, but a round of same strain clones will have to be run to get a better sense.

Overall, I'm quite pleased with the results. I had enough success to be able to select the best performers from the group which hopefully will translate to good things down the road.

I should have four new possibilities in the next week or so so I think I'll test the misting angle with those.

 

[Gee64]

*** Aloe Round Day 21 Update ***

Floated out the 7 cuts today and wanted to post an update.

6 of the 7vhave rooted

How long? quite bushy or long slender ones?

 

[Azimuth]

How long? quite bushy or long slender ones?

Pretty robust looking, not the flimsy 'afraid to break them when potting' kind. The two best had roots about 4-5 inches from multiple sites on the stems. There was also some side branching off the main roots.

 

[Gee64]

Pretty robust looking, not the flimsy 'afraid to break them when potting' kind. The two best had roots about 4-5 inches from multiple sites on the stems. There was also some side branching off the main roots.

nice! So aloe is a pass