Azi's Cloning Adventures

[Azimuth]

*** Cloning with Jadam ***

I want to explore the use of Jadam Water Extracts as rooting aides when making clones.

At least three different plants are reputed to be quite helpful in establishing roots on cuts, namely Aloe, Seaweed/Kelp, and Willow, and I'd like to find out how effective they are and if some are better than others.

Jadam Water Extracts use the power of microbes to break down plant material using a water ferment over time. Water, Plant Matter and Microbes are all that's needed to make the magic happen.

I'm going to start with Willow and compare various things and see if I can find a combination that works consistently for me.

Planned Experiments List

- Willow vs Water
- Willow Leaves vs Bark
- Willow Pieces vs Shredded
- Dilution Rates (1:10, 1:20, 1:30)
- Cuttings, Long vs Short
- New Growth vs Hardened Off
- Clipped Leaves vs Whole
- Split Stems vs Not
- Scraped Stems vs Not
- Lighting, Direct vs Indirect
- Aloe vs Seaweed/Kelp vs Willow

Plus whatever else comes to mind as we go.

Late spring/early summer is the best time for harvesting willow for this purpose, and I did that this morning. It is the stem of the new growth that's supposed to be the best so I cut the ends from several branches and then separated the leaves from the stems, and then cut the stems with a pair of scissors into very small pieces. Anything too big to cut this way got stuck in a glass jar with water to see if they will readily root.

Most of the small, chopped up stems were run through a coffee grinder and came out more shredded than ground and I assume this will make a more powerful version of willow water than just small, intact pieces but that will be one of the tests.

I began the water extraction and ferment of the various materials today using my worm castings as the microbe part and will let them soak for a few days and then will start the experiments with the Willow vs Water. The hormones should start releasing into the water immediately, but it also should get better with age.

I've rooted plenty of houseplants simply in glass jars of water so the first round will be to see if the willow water will root faster/better than straight tap water.

 

[Danishoes21]

Count me in.

I have some vague idea of using seaweed as a sprout aid, it’s has lots of phytohormones but the one specifically is Gibberellins for germination.

I am all in with this thread, all the best in your findings.

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks, D. Should be fun.

 

[Danishoes21]

I will be cloning in the near future. I always wandered if I use only seaweed water to start my clones would that help with the to be root ball. I am a little concerned of burning the clones or introducing to many microbes at a very vulnerable stage.

 

[Azimuth]

I'm going to start my soak water at probably 1:30 dilution but plan to test various strengths.

 

[Pat Puffer]

Very interesting . I like the idea of tracking the dilution rates as well. Given all the variables you're working with you are going to have your hands full. Like full leaves with 1:10 and on, plus cut leaves at those ratios? I love the experimenting.

 

[Azimuth]

I'll probably determine dilution ratios and materials (leaves vs branches vs shredded branches) first and see if there's one better than the others and then use that to test some of the other things but try to have only one variable at a time if possible.

 

[Azimuth]

I was reading more about using willow water for cloning and it turns out that the willow bark contains both Indolebutyric Acid (IBA) like that found in commercial rooting products as well as Salicylic Acid (SA). The IBA is not well soluble in water, but is in alcohol.

And it seems there are essentially two ways the willow water is used for rooting cuttings. Chop them up and either pour boiling water over them, then let cool and use immediately, or pour cool water over them and let them soak for a couple of days and use. Excess can then be kept in the refrigerator for a few weeks.

My first round will follow the common usage and use the cool water version since I'm not convinced that pouring boiling water over the material doesn't damage it in some fashion. I do have some 2 year old extract from a combination of leaves and stems that my labels tell me I did a KNF sugar extract (FPJ-Fermented Plant Juice) for a couple of months then strained the plant material out and continued with a Jadam water extract.

I'd imagine that there should be plenty of the IBA in the stems that survived the sugar extract process and that the weak alcohol of the Jadam fermentation will have liberated more of it, so I'll include both versions in another round to compare and contrast.

These rounds will also give my new extracts time to ferment before I experiment with them.

 

[Danishoes21]

I was reading more about using willow water for cloning and it turns out that the willow bark contains both IBA (Indolebutyric Acid) like that found in commercial rooting products as well as SA (Salicylic Acid). The IBA is not well soluble in water, but is in alcohol.

And it seems there are essentially two ways the willow water is used for rooting cuttings. Chop them up and either pour boiling water over them, then let cool and use immediately, or pour cool water over them and let them soak for a couple of days and use. Excess can then be kept in the refrigerator for a few weeks.

My first round will follow the common usage and use the cool water version since I'm not convinced that pouring boiling water over the material doesn't damage it in some fashion. I do have some 2 year old extract from a combined leaves and stems that my labels tell me I did a KNF sugar extract (FPJ Fermented Plant Juice) for a couple of months then strained the plant material out and continued with a Jadam water extract.

I'd imagine that there should be plenty of the IBA in the stems that survived the sugar extract process and that the weak alcohol of the Jadam fermentation will have liberated more of it, so I'll include both versions in another round to compare and contrast.

These rounds will also give my new extracts time to ferment before I experiment with them.

This sounds like a solid input. Nice work brother

 

[Azimuth]

Round 1 has begun.

I have a small Northen Lights 5 plant that was cloned previously that was big enough to take 2 pairs of lower stems along with the main leader.

I used rubbing alcohol to sterilize my scissors and razor blade, not because it helps the cuttings root (it doesn't) but rather to try not to pass along any existing plant pathogens between plants. I cut them from the plant and put them immediately into a cup of water so an air bubble wouldn't form an embolism and kill it before it could root.

Then I took each cutting out and trimmed off any leaves or growth tips that will be below the water line and set them in their respective jars under indirect light.

One of each pair was cut on a 45 degree angle and the other was cut flat and the stem scraped on one side for about a half an inch or so up from the bottom. One pair went into plain tap water and the other pair plus the leader went into a 100% solution of two day old willow water made with the shredded stems.

Even If they all root, five plants is too small a sample size to reach any conclusions but I thought I'd see if either version helped the rooting process.

So now I wait and see if any will root, and if some do, see if the willow water help in any appreciable way.

 

[Pat Puffer]

Sounds awesome. Any pictures to go along with the experimenting?

 

[Wastei]

Count me in.

I have some vague idea of using seaweed as a sprout aid, it’s has lots of phytohormones but the one specifically is Gibberellins for germination.

I am all in with this thread, all the best in your findings.

Foliar kelp/humic is better than any rooting hormone IMO.

 

[Danishoes21]

Foliar kelp/humic is better than any rooting hormone IMO.

How would you apply this to a cutting ?

 

[Azimuth]

Sounds awesome. Any pictures to go along with the experimenting?

Sorry, no. I don't do photos for security reasons.

 

[Wastei]

How would you apply this to a cutting ?

Mix Humic acid with kelp in 5:2 ratio. 5 parts Humic acid to 2 parts kelp. Then I weigh 0.6g of that per liter of water or 2.26g per gallon. I usually also add 0.1g hydrolysed whey isolate, 0.37g per gallon.

Then I add a surfactant like dish soap, I use polysorbate20 to make the spray cover the leaves better and with better absorption. Then I pH that solution to 5.8 and spray with this first and then water a couple of hours later to clean off the humic/kelp mix.

 

[Danishoes21]

Mix Humic acid with kelp in 5:2 ratio. 5 parts Humic acid to 2 parts kelp. Then I weigh 0.6g of that per liter of water or 2.26g per gallon. I usually also add 0.1g hydrolysed whey isolate, 0.37g per gallon.

Then I add a surfactant like dish soap, I use polysorbate20 to make the spray cover the leaves better and with better absorption. Then I pH that solution to 5.8 and spray with this first and then water a couple of hours later to clean off the humic/kelp mix.

Thanks taking notes of that.

 

[Azimuth]

Day 2 and the Willow water cuttings are starting to go south with curling leaves and edges that are starting to dehydrate so maybe the 100% willow water soak is too strong.

Whatever it is, I rinsed off the roots and replaced the water with straight tap water to see if they'll recover.

Some of the instruction articles I read suggested only soaking the cuttings briefly (an hour or two) and then planting them in a standard cloning cube, so we'll see if they have absorbed enough hormone to make a difference. Maybe I'll test that in future rounds (100% for a few hours only).

If they do, they will be coming from behind.

But, maybe in the end that's a good sign suggesting that some dilution is required.

On we go.

 

[Azimuth]

Day 6 and the larger willow branches too big to process and stuck in jar of water are starting to root.

The water in this jar is quite clear still while the water in the 2-day extract was quite cloudy with the shredded material. I suspect that means that the concentration of hormones and other things released into the water was much higher and maybe is what lead to the dehydration in the cuttings that were sitting in it for a couple of days.

 

[Azimuth]

I'm going to call a Round One finished. Day 15 and I have roots on two of the four tap-water only clones including one of the super small trimming pieces. Interesting.

The ones placed in the 2 day old Willow water made from shredded twig bark never recovered, so we now know that way is out.

I'm going to let the water clones grow their roots for a while before potting them up, but plan to start another round today after a trip to the hardware store to modify my set-up slightly. For the next round I will try my two year old KNF willow extract vs tap water.

 

[Danishoes21]

Azi I haven’t posted here as my results aren’t promising; I also cloned Autos (not ideal). I will try a photo clone anytime soon and I have started a simple Willow extract (rain water, molasses and worm castings). I am also waiting for my new seaweed extract to become usable.